WCS US Open dramas.

[NZ Monkey]

Keep in mind that the following is from a random fan blog (the post is at http://lizamayliza.com/2011/11/ for reference) and not an event insider. That said, if it's true then we may have some interesting drama in the upcoming US Open to ....er..... look forward to. The issues will sound familiar to many long-time forumites.

N.B. The event that sparked this update is Tampa 2011.


Holy Mackerel! What a way to ruin a comp! How completely inappropriate can you get?

Tonight was Saturday night, the Big Night! Wonderful show, the Willis Clan and their Reality TV pilot! Masters routines! Young Adult routines! Rising Star! And Classic! A wonderful exciting night, right? Two weeks before the Open?

But a peculiar announcement was made several times: “There will be a meeting of Showcase at 11:30pm All Showcase couples who competed last night! You will be meeting tonight at 11:30pm!”

So of course everyone here wondered what could that possibly be about? Showcase was yesterday! It was great! A meeting on Saturday night?

Here’s what it was about. Beata Howe, Chief Judge, decided that all the showcase couples but one (Crystal and Dave) should be disqualified. For lack of swing content.

So Beata convened a new, second panel of judges, and had them watch a video of last night’s routines. And after this discussion and viewing Beata confirmed that in fact every single one of the showcase couples (except Crystal and Dave) should be disqualified for lack of swing content. Beata decided not to disqualify them here in Tampa but informed them in their 11:30 meeting that in two weeks, at the Open, they would be judged again by this same panel of judges, and should expect to be disqualified for lack of swing content.

Couples were flabbergasted.

Showcase is 60/40. 60% swing content. They asked Beata what is swing content, according to you, that you would disqualify all of us?

You can’t define swing content, Beata answered.

How are we supposed to do it if you can’t tell us what it is we’re supposed to do, they asked.

Has to do with weight. Where your weight is, Beata said. Your weight can’t be over the balls of your feet.

But that’s technique, that’s not swing content, they said.

Well that’s how I define swing content, she said. And this second panel of judges I’ve convened are the same judges who will be judging you in two weeks at the Open. So change your routines or be disqualified.

The feeling here, of this event, went from an excited Saturday Night high to a shocked, disappointed, worried low. In the space of an hour. People everywhere on their phones calling family and friends all over the world, worrying, confused, not understanding.

Robert and Nicola Royston? Seriously? Greg and Lemery? Lemery is 22 years old. This is her first year on our circuit. She and Greg have travelled at their expense, to every NASDE comp and a lot of non-NASDE comps in order to put this routine on the floor, playing by the rules as the rules were described to them. For a year they have not once received a violation, not to mention a disqualification! The Open is two weeks away and how exciting this has been for Greg and Lemery! They’ve thought they might stand a chance of placing at the USOpen! How wonderful!

And now … this. Really, Beata? This is the “welcoming” community you want to show our young competitors?

What a way to ruin the high of Saturday night!

Of course news of this travelled instantly and after that no one really felt much like celebrating. The ballroom was sparse, mood was gloomy.

Something must be done to rectify this!. Will this second panel of judges, whoever they were, now have already decided that every one of the Showcase routines of last night – including Greg and Lemery, Robert and Nicola who danced more beautifully than before with the most beautiful routine yet, Rob and Connie who have been performing their routine since March, Stephen and Sabrina, Ben and Rebecca, Sheven and Agnieszka, JB and Sarah, and Luis and Jennifer – that these routines are all to be thrown out of the Open? For lack of swing content? Which cannot be defined? Other than to say that your weight needs to be over your heels?

There is so very MUCH here that’s inappropriate, I’m embarrassed.

[DavidY]

Blimey!

Tough choice for the competitors though.

I'm assuming the Showcase is pre-choreographed routine to their chosen music? If so and you're competing, do you make significant changes to a routine with only 2 weeks to go, or do you fight it and hope you're still allowed to perform the original one...?
:popcorn: :popcorn:

[NZ Monkey]

I'm assuming the Showcase is pre-choreographed routine to their chosen music? Indeed it is a choreographed piece.

The thing about the showcase is that it's supposed to be the competition where you can really let your hair down and go crazy. It has a minimum aireal requirement for example. Additionally, the swing content bar has traditionally been set low enough that it's virtually impossible to get infracted for it without dancing something that's identifiably different to WCS (like Cha-Cha for instance).

It's also the "lesser" of the two choreographed competitions in a cultural sense. More kudos seems to go to Classic winners than Showcase ones, although I think that's happened organically rather than by design. I can't remember who told me this now, but the Showcase division was once described to me as the chance for a non-superstar to take a choreography trophy home...... as long as Benji Schwimmer wasn't at the event*.


If so and you're competing, do you make significant changes to a routine with only 2 weeks to go, or do you fight it and hope you're still allowed to perform the original one...?
Personally, I think I'd withdraw. Especially if I'd been to a dozen other events in the same year and not even been given an infraction.

Some people seem to be able to make changes with obscenely little notice and pull it off wonderfully. Benji and Kellese Key won with a Micheal Jackson themed routine they had only a few days to practice together a couple of years ago for instance. They're particularly gifted though.

*This may have been before the Rising Star category had found it's feet so isn't entirely fair, but I think it's an interesting observation never-the-less.

[David Franklin]

Given the way current classic/showcase routines look, I'm expect just as many 'swing content' violations in classic.

As far as kudos goes: looking at the routines and reactions over the years, I'd say that Showcase was originally the "big one", by mid 90s it was roughly 50-50. Classic only really seemed to become clearlymore prestigious when J/T started their 'reign'.

[NZ Monkey]

Published on the US Open facebook page:

The US Open is sorry to hear about what happened in Tampa. The US Open does NOT post the names of the judges before the competition. Also, our judges do not know their assignments until they get to the US Open that weekend. Any references to, or about the US Open judging panel made in Miami are NOT true. No one there had the right to speak for the US Open.
-Phil Adams
Competition DirectorI'm glad to hear that things should turn out alright for the competitors....... and would love to know what was going on in Tampa! :devil:

[David Bailey]

Sounds like a whole series of miscommunications / Chinese Whispers came together from that blog post.

[NZ Monkey]

Well, judging from facebook rants from some of the big names it looks like a lot more than just chinese whispers to me.

Sometimes I'm really happy to be half the world away from the action. :banghead:

[David Franklin]

Well, judging from facebook rants from some of the big names it looks like a lot more than just chinese whispers to me. Who's been ranting? I saw Mario chipping in, but not much else from the big guns.

Referring back to my previous post, I'm seriously curious about what happened (and will happen) in Classic. It honestly seems to me that there are more Classic performances that "don't feel like swing" that is the case for showcase, and since the Classic restrictions are quite a bit tighter there should be even bigger issues there.

[NZ Monkey]

Mario is the loudest. No surprises there.

But Brandi Tobias, Parker Dearborn and Deborah Szekely have all chimed in to put their views out there. I've seen a couple of oblique references from Tatiana which I suspect are related, but her and Jordan - quite sensibly I think - keep their image very professional.

In any event, we'll get to see if anything has changed by the end of the weekend! :grin:

[NZ Monkey]

This isn't actually about the US Open. Or at least not directly. It is, however, drama. Therefore I've decided to copy it into this thread rathe rthan start a new one.

I don't know all the details, but I can take a pretty solid guess about who the subject of this post on Facebook was. Frankly I'm a little surprised it's taken this long for J&T to visibly fight back, but I think they've demonstrated amazing strength of character by waiting this long.



Before we say anything we would like to apologize to both the Capital and Boogie attendees in the audience for not dancing. It was one of the hardest decisions in our careers to make and we made it for reasons we are no longer able to compromise.

Jumping into a Facebook discussion is something we have always managed to avoid. However, we feel there are some misconceptions we would like to clear up regarding our decision not to compete at Boogie and Capital.

Not competing at these two respected national events was extremely hard for us. It was hard for many reasons, none more so than we love to compete and we are horrified to disappoint anyone. We hope the reputation we have established after 16 years of competing at the highest level, always with integrity, will both show how serious a problem we find this to be and lend credibility to what we share with you now.

We can't say this enough, this decision was not about the SCORES!! We have been placed poorly by this judge for years and have never asked for him, or any judge for that matter, to be removed. This comes down to 10 years of public slander. Whether it be on a microphone, in workshops, in score rooms, in bars after competitions, or on Facebook. This judge has been bashing us since we left juniors and started competing as adults. Our students from around the world are constantly surprised and appalled by his negativity towards us. We have always believed it is wrong for a judge to be openly hostile towards the competitors they are scoring, but until now we have just taken it. It is bad for everyone, hurtful and must stop!

At Boogie there were 8 dancers ready to pull out of the competition if this judge was on the panel. In the end, only Tat, myself, Kyle & Sarah were in a position where we could actually make this stand. We decided we could no longer allow his behavior to continue without doing something to protect ourselves. Again, it had nothing to do with one bad score or the eventual result at Boogie. We have won and placed well despite his low scores for years. At that time the four of us had a meeting with this judge, but things were not resolved. Ten years of turmoil couldn't be fixed in one hour. After this horrible weekend for swing, things got worse. As soon as he gets home he is blasting us on Facebook. Many saw this. His personal feelings couldn't be more negative and more public. At that time we chose to take the high road and not respond to any of his slams. We were preparing for the US Open and could not let his negativity distract us.
At Capital we were asked by the event promoter to have another meeting with him and the four of us were there, but he chose not to show up. That's right, he didn't bother to come! After two of the three deciding individuals agreed that he should be removed from the panel, he was left on. Again, our concerns were not addressed.

Why is it so important for this judge to be on our panel? Judges are moved around on panels all the time, more than the general public knows. There are innocent conflicts of interest, questioned scores, and boom, that judge is replaced. They shift them off one contest and on to another and it’s no big deal. In fact, most of the time when this happens there are no hurt feelings at all. Most judges would be relived to be removed from such a situation. Yet, he fights to be on our panels and lobbies promoters across the country to judge Classic.

Some have asked why we still danced the Jack & Jill and Strictly at Capital. This is a fair question we are happy to answer. We don't care if he judges our Strictly Swing & Jack and Jill competitions. Those are fun comps that take 3 minutes of our life and no preparation. He actually pulled himself from the Jack & Jill panel and you can ask him why, but he did judge the Strictly. Regardless, if he is on those panels or not, our focus is the Classic Division.

We want a resolution and for this to be over. To start the healing process he needs to stop the public bashing and the insulting statements. We have no problem working along side this person. We just don't want someone who has been so extremely vocal and negative about us and our life's work judging us anymore. Based upon how flexible judging panels have always been in our community, this is not too much to ask. Is it?

Sincerely,

Jordan Frisbee & Tatiana Mollmann

(N.B. I thought for a while about whether I should post it here, but as it can only be taken as a public statement I feel re-posting it would not cause offence)

[Northants Girly]

who are they taking about??

[NZ Monkey]

And as if that post wasn't enough drama for everyone....


First let me start out with thanking all of the amazing friends, students, professionals,and event directors who have been so supportive of Kyle and I for the past 19 years that we have been apart of the West Coast Swing community. As far as I know Kyle and I are the longest running competitive couple in the classic division and don't plan on stopping anytime soon. We have worked very hard to be in the position we are in and sometimes it's meant sacrificing comfort. We have and will continue to support the growth of this community all over the world. We love this dance family and will do what it takes to protect our passion and business that continues to support our family.

With much hesitation…Kyle and I have chosen to share our recent experience with the dealings that have gone on surrounding our request to have a judge removed from the classic panel. The reasons are NOT because of the undeniable ability the individual has to to judge, teach, dance, or any of the other talents they may have. Neither is the reason to sway or encourage other event directors to not hire the professional. It's this simple, we believe that if a judge can be removed from a panel because of love, they surely should be removed because of hate.

This individual that we requested to have removed from the panel has shown public disdain for us and several of the other widely respected professionals in our community. Professionals who serve on a level and world wide basis that goes so so so far beyond a dance contest.


It breaks our hearts to let anybody down in this community. I can't tell you the hours lost of sleep and so much worry this has caused us knowing the disappointment that some would have. Gosh, that's why we have continued year after year to let this go and swallow the pain and sadness we have felt from comments and expressions this judge has shown. But due to recent occurrences that ability has been lost. After having multiple judges come to us and let us know that the judge in question has made negative comments about Kyle and myself in back rooms before scores have been submitted, the fact that this person requests not to announce Kyle and I for show's that they has been hired to MC, and now we should feel confident that this person can be impartial with a clip board? The fact that this judge continues to slander the professionals in the swing community on a public forum is unacceptable. Posting on facebook who his "pick" is for the classic division before flying off to judge it is unacceptable. And for many many more instances that I can not share due to keeping confidence of other parties involved.

We respectfully contacted the world swing dance council to find out the steps necessary to request the judge be reviewed and then we strictly followed them. When we explained our reasons, it was confirmed that we had plenty of good reason to request the judge be pulled. We also contacted the event director months in advance to let them know the concern and continued to take many steps to try and resolve this situation.

Our goal was to do this discreetly and respectfully so that we could have a positive solution to such a negative situation. As Jordan and Tatiana explained in their statement, we were asked to come to a meeting last weekend to try and work things out for our community's sake, but when Kyle and I and J&T showed up, the judge refused to come. For those of you who know Kyle and I, and my respected peers Jordan and Tatiana, we chose of course to do whats right, stand behind our beliefs.


There are many guidelines in order for the conduct of competitors, we need the same for our judges. Kyle and I were not requesting a judge be removed because of ability or scores, it's because of the public display of favoritism and slander. We don't expect every person who judges to like Kyle and I, and we also believe in the right to state an opinion, but if the individual get's vocal and slanders us in public and in professional settings, they have now forfeited the right to be on any panel as far as we are concerned. We pay an entry fee just like every other competitor and do so under the impression that the event will provide us with a professional panel that keeps their personal agenda's and dislikes separate from their job. This is the first time in 19 years of competing that we have requested a judge to be pulled. For us to make this stand is very difficult and not something we wanted to do, we had to.

Thank you to those of you who see the best in us and have continued to show it. We really would love to see this resolved and be able to move forward from all this negativity. Our goal is to present the facts and to then find a solution. We are working on this along with Jordan and Tatiana and the world swing council to help prevent this from happening in the future. We welcome support and understanding as we learn and grow from this difficult experience.

With gratitude and respect,
Kyle Redd and Sarah Vann Drake

[David Bailey]

And as if that post wasn't enough drama for everyone....

Cor, tis WestCoastEnders, so it is.

All you need now is a kidnapping and a pub, and you'd make a mint selling the TV rights.

Out of interest, why are they being so coy in not naming "the judge"? And do you know what on Earth is going on behind the scenes?

[NZ Monkey]

Cor, tis WestCoastEnders, so it is.

All you need now is a kidnapping and a pub, and you'd make a mint selling the TV rights.Sadly I think that one's been done already. So I hear anyway, because I don't watch those shows....errrr.....moving right along.....



Out of interest, why are they being so coy in not naming "the judge"?A desire to limit the damage to said persons reputation perhaps? Because slander is something they're rallying against and it's a pretty poor look doing the same in return? Maybe they're just genuinely really nice people?

Your guess is as good as mine.


And do you know what on Earth is going on behind the scenes?Not particularly, although I am 99% sure I know the judge in question and he's not the kind to keep his opinions to himself. I've seen a couple of facebook rants over the last year that were thinly disguised attacks against the latest generation of leading lights, but I know nothing about the specific details of this mess sorry.

Much like a train wreck, I can't help but watch though.

[David Bailey]

A desire to limit the damage to said persons reputation perhaps? Because slander is something they're rallying against and it's a pretty poor look doing the same in return?
Well, it just seems strange to make such strong comments without going the full way and naming them. I guess there may be legal restrictions, but frankly if the person is that easy to identify (and I assume he / she is easy to identify), then "well we didn't give the actual name" may not be much of a defence.


Maybe they're just genuinely really nice people?
"Er, I think you can assume, sir, that any dwarf who rises sufficiently in dwarf society to even be considered as a candidate for the kingship did not get there by singing the hi-ho song and bandaging wounded animals in the forest. "
;)


Much like a train wreck, I can't help but watch though.
Oh yes, by all means keep us posted. :)

[DavidY]

Cor, tis WestCoastEnders, so it is.

All you need now is a kidnapping and a pub, and you'd make a mint selling the TV rights.I used to dance ballroom with someone who used to compete a lot when she was younger. The way she told it, the film "Strictly Ballroom", and its dubious dance judging, was more of a drama documentary than a comedy...

And do you know what on Earth is going on behind the scenes?Is it one of those debates on what constitutes the One True Way of a particular dance form? (WCS in this case.)

[geoff332]

I used to dance ballroom with someone who used to compete a lot when she was younger. The way she told it, the film "Strictly Ballroom", and its dubious dance judging, was more of a drama documentary than a comedy...If anything, "Strictly Ballroom" underplays the crazy.

Is it one of those debates on what constitutes the One True Way of a particular dance form? (WCS in this case.)It's just like a religion. By that, I mean it basically comes down to power rather than truth.

[David Franklin]

Skippy Blair now weighs in:



Most of you are already aware that my eyesight does not allow me to read Facebook. I have someone read it for me on occasion, but I prefer doing my communication strictly through email. I can’t tell you how proud I was to read Jordan and Tatiana’s FB entry. For too long, I have been sitting listening to the negative approach of people who did not know the whole story – simply because J&T would not talk about it. My whole career has been built on truth – caring about people – fairness – and education. I have always been proud of our GSDTA dancers and teachers and the dignity with which they conduct themselves. In ANY community, there will always be a few “negatives” that the gracious people have to cover for. Many of us have been subjected to verbal abuse and negativity and took a deep breath and maintained our composure. Ten years is the limit! J&T had reached it and had my heartfelt support in doing exactly what they did. God Bless J&T, and God Bless the Dance Community.