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cederic
1st-February-2011, 06:48 PM
Why not?

Lack of ability, and lack of confidence in ability. As a lead it's bloody scary and I've had it go wrong before (in Southport - I just couldn't dance as well as my partner clearly expected). I'm getting there, slowly.

The times I did pop in, the atmosphere was fantastic and the music was very good, but there was no shortage of very good dancers in the ballroom (even on Sunday night).


I'm really sorry for all those people who couldn't find daytime dancing, CFJ's had it all!


I did try to pop down early on Saturday afternoon, to show a lady where to find it. The doors at the top of the stairs were closed so we assumed the room was closed/empty :(

Tiger Pants
1st-February-2011, 08:07 PM
(in Southport - I just couldn't dance as well as my partner clearly expected):(

.......... what a terrible experience that must have been. You should really try again, by trying you will succeed.
In my experience I always start off with someone I know will make me feel comfortable, like a regular from my area or someone like DT, MM, Lory or many others on the forum.
Don't give up, the blues room (where ever it is ) is certainly the place I've had some of my best dancing experiences.

Double Trouble
1st-February-2011, 08:28 PM
Lack of ability, and lack of confidence in ability. As a lead it's bloody scary and I've had it go wrong before (in Southport - I just couldn't dance as well as my partner clearly expected). I'm getting there, slowly.

I danced with a couple of men on Friday and Saturday night in the blues room who both told me it was there first time in the blues room and would I mind dancing with them, which of course, I didn't (didn't mind, not didn't dance with them) :wink: All I can say is they asked as many women as they could, no one refused from what I saw and they looked like they were loving every minute. Practice is the key, be bold and ask loads of people to dance.

I wished you'd asked me. I saw that you were going to Metropolis so had a sneaky look at your profile picture so I could look out for you and introduce myself, but your picture doesn't really give me much of a clue as to what you look like. :rofl: Please ask me next time. :flower:

Chef
2nd-February-2011, 01:40 PM
Lack of ability, and lack of confidence in ability. As a lead it's bloody scary and I've had it go wrong before (in Southport - I just couldn't dance as well as my partner clearly expected). I'm getting there, slowly.

I really feel for you and every leader that wants to learn blues dancing. An able leader can really help a follower break into blues dancing but new leaders just find themselves in the driving seat with almost no tutition and only what they see on the dance floor as an inspiration.

So what can I say to a new leader that may help?

1) Get on the floor and give it your best shot. You can learn a whole lot more with an able follower in your arms than you can sat on your butt watching or in a different room being scared of the blues room.

2) Effort will always be appreciated almost as much as ability. Ask your followers for help and advice and listen to it. Each one will have different advice and it will all be useful partly from the common themes that run through it and partly because of the differances.

3) The music is the utter beginning and end of blues dancing. The most flashy move won't mean a thing if it doesn't fit the music. So concentrate on the music and feeling how you would move to it when you are not actually dancing. If you do what the music tells you to do then you wil rarely be wrong. Your follower will also want her opportunity to be expressive to the music and if you develop a feel for the music then you will find that you will deliver her to the music that will naturally create even more space for her to be expressive even within the dance that you are leading. When the music becomes part of your body then you will move to it and when that happens a good follower will merely (and wonderfully) respond to that - a feeling that is utterly georgous.

4) The part of blues dancing that is alien to an MJ dancer is the part in close hold. When you find ourself in close hold then you are in uncharted territory for you and there is the strong drive to lead out to open hold where you feel you can have more ideas from your MJ training. Some of you MJ moves can be adapted to blues - most will feel wrong like MJ done in treacle. So the advice is to work on close hold dancing. A great dance can be had almost on the spot and entirely in close hold.

5) When you move your body it is important to wait until you feel your follower has arrived where you want her before you lead her anywhere else. If you don't it will feel jarring to your follower. Always work with your followers movement rather than against it. Follwers will never remember what great moves you have done, they will only remember what the dance felt like. So do less than you think you can but make it feel great.

6) Do not be afraid to stop moving if that is what the music does or if that what it tell you to do. Most breaks in blues dancing occur after a dramatic ( to a greater or lesser extent) lead up. The transition from movement to stillness creates the drama and twitchy movement in that stillness can break the moment.

Hope that is of some help.

Lory
2nd-February-2011, 02:55 PM
Great advice from Chef here... I especially agree with the following...

1) You can learn a whole lot more with an able follower in your arms than you can sat on your butt watching

3) The music is the utter beginning and end of blues dancing.

The most flashy move won't mean a thing if it doesn't fit the music.

4) A great dance can be had almost on the spot and entirely in close hold.

5) When you move your body it is important to wait until you feel your follower has arrived where you want her before you lead her anywhere else. If you don't, it will feel jarring to your follower.


I'd say if in doubt, do 'less'

But I'd also add one more thing, which may put the cat amongst the pigeons, if you're feeling awkward, nervous and uncomfortable dancing slow and close, this will immediately transfer to your partner and make her feel awkward and uncomfortable and there's nothing worse than dancing with someone, who looks and feels like they'd rather be somewhere else
So, do yourself a favour and practice on people you feel totally comfortable with or people you know are completely relaxed about being UCAP on the dancefloor.

Trouble
2nd-February-2011, 05:32 PM
Absolutely agree with Chef and Lory......

There is nothing nicer, sexier or more sumptuous than a lead who does very little but makes you feel special for that 5 mins with small sways, a little wiggle and a lovely smile.

Who needs moves..... blues is about the feel. :flower:

cederic
2nd-February-2011, 08:49 PM
3) The music is the utter beginning and end of blues dancing.

For people dancing less than a year that musicality is the biggest issue.

It doesn't matter how small the movements, how simple the moves, getting the music incorporated into the dance is the difficult bit.

All your points and suggestions are great, and I may force myself into the bar for a dance at the weekend :)

Gav
3rd-February-2011, 10:56 AM
For people dancing less than a year that musicality is the biggest issue.

It doesn't matter how small the movements, how simple the moves, getting the music incorporated into the dance is the difficult bit.

All your points and suggestions are great, and I may force myself into the bar for a dance at the weekend :)

I still think that the hardest parts about blues dancing are getting over the fact that sometimes it's OK to just stay in close hold and shuffle for a while and knowing what to do with the music.
As far as musicality is concerned, it's easier than in the main room because the music is so much slower and generally has more to it, so you have plenty of time to hear what's coming and decide what to do with it. :flower:

Chef
3rd-February-2011, 11:32 AM
For people dancing less than a year that musicality is the biggest issue.

It doesn't matter how small the movements, how simple the moves, getting the music incorporated into the dance is the difficult bit.


For a people dancing less than a year musicality is usually not even on the radar. In most places that I have danced MJ there is precious little musicality to be had in a main room (just an insistent beat). Also you have way more important things to think about like, moves, leading your partner, avoiding hitting other people, avoiding being hit by other people. If you are really flying through your MJ training then you will be thinking about selecting moves that work within the ability of your partner rather than trying to out dance your partner (which would just make you look like a jerk).

So what I am saying is - be gentle on yourself. You already have a huge amount to get right and work on.

But if you are keen on musicality and blues dancing you need to pursue at least two things.

1) Understanding the structure of music and developing that understanding to the point where you feel that music without having to think about it. I would love to point you towards someone who could teach you about the structure of music and how to fit the dance to the music but I only know of the two people that taught me, Nigel Anderson (MJ and Lindy Hop teacher) and Mario Robau (West Coast Swing teacher). Perhaps other people on the forum could suggest places for suitable lessons. Armed with that knowledge (it really does make you listen to music in a new way) find yourself some blues room tracks and just listen to them to find the accent points, where the music makes a swoosh, a wiggle or a break, In listening to them you will pick up the musical clues that tell you these points in the music are coming along.

2) Learn how to be comfortable in close hold and how to smoothly lead your partner when music is slow, movements are small and movement is lead by body movement rather than the MJ way of the lead coming from the arms. All I can really suggest is that you use the internet to contact your local lindy hop scene and make enquiries if they are having any blues dancing classes or courses. Learning argentine tango will also teach you a great deal about leading in close hold but I have found the teachers humourless and I have a limited tolerance of the music. THe whole culture of the dance seems to be about unrequited love, hopelessness and death and that has never been the basis of a good night out for me.

David Bailey
3rd-February-2011, 11:49 AM
I still think that the hardest parts about blues dancing are getting over the fact that sometimes it's OK to just stay in close hold and shuffle for a while and knowing what to do with the music.
It's a different dance from normal MJ, basically.

Most of the standard MJ convention just don't apply - tempo, in-and-out movements, hold, and so on.

Agente Secreto
3rd-February-2011, 12:56 PM
Chef makes some excellent points - and his tango assessment bloew had me chuckling.

My first visit to a JA Southport Blues Room set my confidence back big style. I'd only been dancing 6 months at the time and persuaded myself that all the leads on the floor were better than I ever could be. The rest of the weekend was not good for me. I could handle the UCP thing no problem, and I also had some musicality courtesy of being a musician in my early years it was simply making the error of judging myself against others that screwed me up.

So I think as Chef suggests the idea is to work on blues, musicality and the whole UCP thing in an environment where you're comfortable and with follows that you know are good and can pick up on your emerging musicality.

Some people do provide classes on musicality, and there are venues outside of weekenders where organisers play music that you can dance expressively to. Seek these out and your dance will never be the same again

whitetiger1518
3rd-February-2011, 02:32 PM
......making the error of judging myself against others that screwed me up.



All my favourite dancers are totally unique... I can't point at any one and say they are my number 1.. Every single one just adapts their own personal style to whatever is playing, oh and preferably lets me play too.

Judging yourself (however experienced in any other dance style you may be) against anyone is totally detrimental.. I'd much rather dance in your arms in close hold + 1 move in your own personal style than have you copy the "best" teacher in the world..

You are best at being yourself.

Absolutely Noone can copy the combination of passion, musicality, set of moves and experience that makes each leader them..

The fact that you are asking for advice sets you apart from at least 80% of all dancers.

I look forward to finding you for a dance in the blues room in the future cedric.

Cheers WT

David Bailey
3rd-February-2011, 03:32 PM
Learning argentine tango will also teach you a great deal about leading in close hold
Yes, although the blues posture is different, and that's quite important in both dances.

I think, more important than the hold though, is that learning AT will force you to lead improvisationally and to the music; eventually, anyway. And I think that's the main skill that would transfer over to Blues dancing.

But that said, the best way to learn a dance is to learn that dance, not to learn A N Other dance and use skills from that.


but I have found the teachers humourless
How very dare you.


and I have a limited tolerance of the music. THe whole culture of the dance seems to be about unrequited love, hopelessness and death and that has never been the basis of a good night out for me.
Sounds like a normal evening at Cheshunt to me. :D

Dave Hancock
3rd-February-2011, 08:00 PM
All your points and suggestions are great, and I may force myself into the bar for a dance at the weekend :)

Cederic,

I'd urge you to keep going and maybe just do a few dances at a time as the blues room is electric.

If I could offer a couple of bits of advice that worked me pretty well at the start is to observe some and take bits of what you see and like and put it all together, one of my largest influences for blues dancing has a wonderful way of watching his partner and from him I took that the biggest thing is to try and make you lady feel the most special person in the world for the length of the dance.

Do less yourself and pay more attention to her initially, give her a bit of eye contact, enjoy yourself and smile and I'm pretty sure you'll go down well.

If you want some technique then go to Lucky Skillen's classes, the guy's amazing. I also ended up dancing next to him in the blues room for a bit and was aware that Rocky was also close by and found being around such good blues dancers inspired me and had a couple of hours of unbelievably good dancing and it was my favourite time in the blues room since the change in ownership.

So being around some great dancers may inspire you and I'm sure there will be many to inspire you this weekend. Have fun.

cederic
3rd-February-2011, 08:22 PM
1) Understanding the structure of music {...} the accent points, where the music makes a swoosh, a wiggle or a break, In listening to them you will pick up the musical clues that tell you these points in the music are coming along.


I've had 2-3 teachers cover the basics of musicality in an hour or less, and also attended a full day musicality workshop. It all helps tremendously although applying it all in practice continues to be extremely difficult.



2) Learn how to be comfortable in close hold


I'm not sure why, but this has never been a problem for me ;)



smoothly lead your partner when music is slow, movements are small and movement is lead by body movement rather than the MJ way of the lead coming from the arms.


Oddly this isn't necessarily hard either. It's combining this with the musicality that's the hardest thing.

One thing I can do is dance a very bluesy style with very musically aware followers. Giving them the space to play and interpret the music (and my lead) tends to work out extremely well. I'm still largely arm-leading though, rather than body leading.

Bugger, something else I need to learn :)

Lory
3rd-February-2011, 09:12 PM
a wonderful way of watching his partner

~Snip~

make your lady feel the most special person in the world for the length of the dance.
~snip~

Do less yourself and pay more attention to her


~snip~

give her a bit of eye contact,

~snip~

enjoy yourself and smile


and I'm pretty sure you'll go down well.


Phwoar!!! :drool: Too right he'll go down well! :yum:

Will miss you this weekend Mr hancock but Tigerpants is standing in, so we should survive :na:

jive-vee
3rd-February-2011, 09:53 PM
Phwoar!!! :drool: Too right he'll go down well! :yum:

Will miss you this weekend Mr hancock but Tigerpants is standing in, so we should survive :na:


Ooooh Tigerpants is going!?! Yay, I've suddenly found my enthusiasm for Southport! :clap:

Dave Hancock
3rd-February-2011, 09:54 PM
Will miss you this weekend Mr hancock but Tigerpants is standing in, so we should survive :na:

You'll have to give him my quota of hugs!

Hope to see you at Southport in May :kiss::kiss:

Tiger Pants
3rd-February-2011, 10:49 PM
You'll have to give him my quota of hugs!

:

.............. and maybe some of his dances too.

Chef
4th-February-2011, 12:13 PM
I've had 2-3 teachers cover the basics of musicality in an hour or less, and also attended a full day musicality workshop. It all helps tremendously although applying it all in practice continues to be extremely difficult.

Your full day musicality workshop sounds just what I had in mind. Now the hard graft starts. What can be taught in a day can take years to put into practice and when you are in the wild you don't know which track is going to be playing and you don't know the characterisics of your partner, both of which you must discover in real time.

A useful exercise would be to sit down with a peice of paper and a track you like and work out some choreography to it. I did this on a choreography weekend workshop and found it very illuminating.




I'm not sure why, but this has never been a problem for me ;)

In blues dancing the contact between partners is just above the knees and there should be space between the partners at hip level with, as the Texan blues teachers would say, enough space for sweet baby Jesus to pass between you.

Some blues followers do pretty much glue their hips to you either because they wrongly believe this is required or just because they like it that way. Depending upon your maritial or relationship status, or the age difference between you it can feel uncomfortable for the leader. If you have no problems then you may not feel the need to inform your follower about the "sweet baby Jesus" requirement.

I did once have a trick situation in argentine tango lesson. Not having a partner at that time (and not knowing about the need to capture you own and bring them to lessons) I turned up at a lesson and found myself practicing the lesson either on my own (which turned out to be much simpler) or the lady teacher would partner me. This was fine when in practice hold but when she moved into close hold and the chest to chest contact it was different.

There I was, a 50 year old man with a delightful 23 year old woman caressing her hand on the back of my neck and the sudden and unexpected squish of her bosom against my chest made me feel uncomfortable in a "this is just wrong" sort of way. She obviously felt my discomfort and whispered in my ear "if the feel of a womans breasts on your chest is uncomfortable to you then perhaps tango is not the dance for you". I replied with a little quaver in my voice "no, I think I could get used to it". Fortunately it has never been a problem for me from that day,




Oddly this isn't necessarily hard either. It's combining this with the musicality that's the hardest thing.

Yup, thats the real trick. At least you undersand this and are not deterred,


One thing I can do is dance a very bluesy style with very musically aware followers. Giving them the space to play and interpret the music (and my lead) tends to work out extremely well. I'm still largely arm-leading though, rather than body leading.

I always found with musically aware followers was when they have the space is how and when to restart my active leading. I can give no insight into this just that it is likely that you are going to get this bit wrong more often than you will get it right. One thing I can warn you about is that if the follower is looking at their feet while she is doing her thing don't expect her to hand control back to you at a sensible point in the music except by sheer accident. If they could move their feel and listen to the music at the same time they wouldn't need to look at their feet.


Bugger, something else I need to learn :)

If there was nothing new to discover then the journey would be over.

David Bailey
4th-February-2011, 12:56 PM
A useful exercise would be to sit down with a peice of paper and a track you like and work out some choreography to it. I did this on a choreography weekend workshop and found it very illuminating.
A lot of "musicality" is simply knowing a particular track thoroughly, having danced to it hundreds of times, and experimenting with different possibilities for different phrases of that track.

In AT, this is largely how these 89-year-old guys manage to be so good - they've had 70 years of dancing to a fairly small set of music, and they've danced each one hundreds or thousands of times, so they know exactly what to do, to best interpret each phrase.

And it's why experienced dancers have a very high tolerance for the old classics - far higher than most DJs realise, I think. If a track is perfect for MJ now, it'll still be perfect in 10 years' time; and more importantly, we'll have ten years' experience of exactly how we can experiment and interpret that track.

Whereas truly improvised musicality, to an unknown track, is much harder, because you have to guess at what's coming up, or you have to improvise continuously on the fly.


There I was, a 50 year old man with a delightful 23 year old woman caressing her hand on the back of my neck and the sudden and unexpected squish of her bosom against my chest made me feel uncomfortable in a "this is just wrong" sort of way. She obviously felt my discomfort and whispered in my ear "if the feel of a womans breasts on your chest is uncomfortable to you then perhaps tango is not the dance for you". I replied with a little quaver in my voice "no, I think I could get used to it". Fortunately it has never been a problem for me from that day,
I like that phrase, I think I'll nick it for the next time I introduce close hold. :nice:

And you know, after a while, you realise, they're just another bit of the body.

CheesyRobMan
4th-February-2011, 01:43 PM
Lack of ability, and lack of confidence in ability. As a lead it's bloody scary and I've had it go wrong before (in Southport - I just couldn't dance as well as my partner clearly expected).

I know that feeling very well, and the partner in question made it very clear that I had disappointed her. It was a huge, huge blow to my confidence and the first thing I now associate with that weekender (not at Southport). It's not just scary, it's terrifying, and made worse when your partner is either bored and disengaged, or actively tutting and looking around for the next dance half way through yours.

The best way to get over something like that is to get up with someone who you know and who knows your level of ability, and who will be encouraging. Dancing is ultimately about having fun, and if you're not having fun with one partner there's no obligation to dance with them again.

Chef
4th-February-2011, 03:01 PM
A lot of "musicality" is simply knowing a particular track thoroughly, having danced to it hundreds of times, and experimenting with different possibilities for different phrases of that track.

Knowing a track really well and having a vocabulary of ways to react to parts of it is where musicality starts. It is why I suggested that you take a track(s) that you like and thinking how to choreograph your dance to it. Not because I want you to have a choreographed routine for each track but because I wanted people to listen to a peice of music without the added problems of leading, floorcraft etc in real time. This, I hope would allow people to understand that the music has a structure, that there are accent points and breaks that lend themsevels to musical interpretation. Vitally that there are musical clues that tell you that these things are going to happen or will happen in the next musical phrase.

In this way you can make the transition from knowing many tracks to knowing even tracks you have never heard before.


Whereas truly improvised musicality, to an unknown track, is much harder, because you have to guess at what's coming up, or you have to improvise continuously on the fly.

Dancing to an unknown track is one of the most enjoyable things. It is harder but it gets easier, even though the supply of "unknown" tracks diminishes through that process. Understanding the musical clues removes almost all of the guesswork and improvising on the fly is most of the joy for me.


And you know, after a while, you realise, they're just another bit of the body.

So! I like pretty women! Sue me. I may be old but I am not dead yet. My father would tell me that as you get older the young women look even better and the older ones don't look so bad. Just wish he was around so that I coud tell him than I now understand.

Double Trouble
4th-February-2011, 03:13 PM
And you know, after a while, you realise, they're just another bit of the body.

Gay!

*snigger*

I know, I'm so childish. :D

David Bailey
4th-February-2011, 03:18 PM
Gay!

*snigger*

I know, I'm so childish. :D

I speak as someone who's spent a couple of years practicing regularly in close embrace with Lory. Beat that. :na:

Trouble
4th-February-2011, 03:19 PM
I speak as someone who's spent a couple of years practicing regularly in close embrace with Lory. Beat that. :na:

Ive had a couple of those. Our breasts fit perfectly :lol:

David Bailey
4th-February-2011, 03:20 PM
Dancing to an unknown track is one of the most enjoyable things. It is harder but it gets easier, even though the supply of "unknown" tracks diminishes through that process. Understanding the musical clues removes almost all of the guesswork and improvising on the fly is most of the joy for me.
It's challenging and exhilarating, yes - it's also more difficult. Personally I prefer the oldies but goodies.

Talking of which:

So! I like pretty women! Sue me. I may be old but I am not dead yet.
I have no problems with that :) - I was just saying that after you've been doing close embrace for a while, you don't really notice them so much.

Double Trouble
4th-February-2011, 04:06 PM
after you've been doing close embrace for a while, you don't really notice them so much.

As if there weren't enough reasons to give up Tango already! :na:

Gerry
7th-February-2011, 07:21 PM
I had always been scared to dance blues as I was worried something would pop up :lol:

Now that I know where to position myself its not a worry, I still feel intimidated but I still ask lots of girls. When dancing blues you can always have a chat and tell them your worries. I have recently danced with quiet a few of the good followers who will offer some great advice and are able to back lead which makes learning so much more enjoyable.

Dancing blues is absolutely magical when a follower attaches themselves to you and you feel like one, its something that should not be missed.:awe:

You really need to take the bull by the horns and go for it.

philsmove
7th-February-2011, 07:40 PM
I love “Switch” events were t there is only one room and the music slows down around Midnight
But I am not a great fun of a separate blues room. I think I can dance blues reasonable well, but I am still intimidated by blues rooms, not sure why, probably because a lot of my friends are in the main room and I end up continually changing rooms trying to deicide “were the party is “
At a two room event, this weekend, I could not help noticing, the DJs were playing exactly the same track at the same time

cederic
7th-February-2011, 08:48 PM
So I decided not to waste the encouragement and advice you've all given, and had a few dances in the bar at Southport this weekend.

The first, I was asked by <random female denizen of the Blues room>. She was polite and patient but clearly didn't enjoy the dance, and I struggled mightily in response. That nearly put me off the whole room but I decided to stick it out.

The second was a follower I'd had a good dance with in the main room previously, so I grabbed her and had a very nice dance with her, but I'm not sure it was blues.

The third is a lady that posts on here that I know by sight (and have had just one dance with before now). I didn't mention this thread, just asked for a dance, and she gave me a masterclass in musicality. Very chatty, fun to dance with, unbelievable response to the music, extremely accepting of my inability but I was working overtime just to avoid cutting off her musical play, let alone actually joining in.

Fourth was a follower that taxis at a venue I go to. She knows how crap I am, so my thanks to her for giving me some practice :) My apologies too for stealing some of her slot when I grabbed a friend for a rock-n-roll track in there (which was fun, and a chance to be musical to faster paced music, which I do find easier).

The final dance in there was a 'young slim pretty thing' - one of the ladies that's usually dancing with the teachers. About three beats into the song the gulf in talent between us was evident, but it was a good dance and hopefully she enjoyed it too - she was extremely good, played a lot and very gracefully followed my clumsy attempts to speed up/slow down with the music.

So overall I think only one partner felt badly let down by me, which is a good thing, but sadly I just didn't enjoy the dancing there as much as in the main room.

All that aside, there was some fantastic dancing in the bar and in the main room this weekend, so I did lurk a bit to watch/admire/learn. Eventually I do want to try and get to that level but it's just not fun being crap in the blues room (for me or my partners) so I'd rather get a lot more practice in the main room and at venues with a good mix of fast/slow music until I'm rather better than I am now.

Lory
7th-February-2011, 09:01 PM
So I decided not to waste the encouragement and advice you've all given

Well done for giving it a go! :clap::worthy:

FoxyFunkster
7th-February-2011, 09:17 PM
So I decided not to waste the encouragement and advice you've all given, and had a few dances in the bar at Southport this weekend.

The first, I was asked by <random female denizen of the Blues room>. She was polite and patient but clearly didn't enjoy the dance, and I struggled mightily in response. That nearly put me off the whole room but I decided to stick it out.

The second was a follower I'd had a good dance with in the main room previously, so I grabbed her and had a very nice dance with her, but I'm not sure it was blues.

The third is a lady that posts on here that I know by sight (and have had just one dance with before now). I didn't mention this thread, just asked for a dance, and she gave me a masterclass in musicality. Very chatty, fun to dance with, unbelievable response to the music, extremely accepting of my inability but I was working overtime just to avoid cutting off her musical play, let alone actually joining in.

Fourth was a follower that taxis at a venue I go to. She knows how crap I am, so my thanks to her for giving me some practice :) My apologies too for stealing some of her slot when I grabbed a friend for a rock-n-roll track in there (which was fun, and a chance to be musical to faster paced music, which I do find easier).

The final dance in there was a 'young slim pretty thing' - one of the ladies that's usually dancing with the teachers. About three beats into the song the gulf in talent between us was evident, but it was a good dance and hopefully she enjoyed it too - she was extremely good, played a lot and very gracefully followed my clumsy attempts to speed up/slow down with the music.

So overall I think only one partner felt badly let down by me, which is a good thing, but sadly I just didn't enjoy the dancing there as much as in the main room.

All that aside, there was some fantastic dancing in the bar and in the main room this weekend, so I did lurk a bit to watch/admire/learn. Eventually I do want to try and get to that level but it's just not fun being crap in the blues room (for me or my partners) so I'd rather get a lot more practice in the main room and at venues with a good mix of fast/slow music until I'm rather better than I am now.


Great stuff Cederic, Progress was made for sure, just make sure you keep asking and dancing cos nothing beats experience! I would also consider a few other things for you, I always say to people to be brave and ask for feedback from partners/followers, of course you need to be thick skinned here but advice both positive and negative feedback is invaluable. There is so much experience in the room and so many great leaders/followers you can learn so much from them by chatting to them, Hope they won't mind but go introduce yourself to Lory,Toni, Foxy Lady or Diyena, buy them a large white wine and ask them nicely for some of what i call 'gold bars of information' they'll put you in the right direction, The last suggestion to go further and take a Blues private lesson

Prian
8th-February-2011, 04:52 AM
The second was a follower I'd had a good dance with in the main room previously, so I grabbed her and had a very nice dance with her, but I'm not sure it was blues.



I have not been to Hammersmith since 1999 and have only done one weekender, Bognor 2004. So I don't think that I have ever done a blues room.

Is there a different way of dancing in a blues room or can one just dance standard Ceroc/MJ.

Double Trouble
8th-February-2011, 09:23 AM
Is there a different way of dancing in a blues room or can one just dance standard Ceroc/MJ.

It depends who you are or who you talk to. Some folk use it as a bit of a cuddle fest, others see the blues room as somewhere only the very best dancers should venture, the ones who can use expression and musicality in their dancing and make it look smooth and flawless.

Personally, I don't care who uses it, I just prefer the music.

Gav
8th-February-2011, 09:47 AM
The second was a follower I'd had a good dance with in the main room previously, so I grabbed her and had a very nice dance with her, but I'm not sure it was blues.

It doesn't always have to be "blues", even in the Southport blues room :what: (I know, shoot me now! :rolleyes:).
On Sunday at a tea dance, a stranger asked me to dance and, of course, I said yes. It was a slow bluesy track (I later found out that she's the type that asks for a dance before she finds out what the music is).
Anyway, as we started dancing it was clear that she wasn't keen on being too up close and personal, so I danced slow Ceroc with her. Obviously you choose not to do moves that look daft done slow, such as catapults and any twisty-turny arm or tunnel moves. The odd drawn out sway, certain first-move variations, basket variations etc, maybe a pivot turn if it fits.
We finished the dance with a gentle dip and as we left the dance floor she said "I usually avoid blues music as I hate dancing blues, but that was a lovely dance".
I know that some people think that if you're in the blues room you're fair game for a cuddle, a bit of grinding and generally a bit of a perv-up, but it doesn't have to be that way. With time you'll start to realise which followers want to be 'bluesed' and which ones just want a nice musicality-led dance and you can give them what they want.



(Maybe one day, I'll be able to do it too :D)

David Bailey
8th-February-2011, 10:58 AM
It doesn't always have to be "blues", even in the Southport blues room :what: (I know, shoot me now! :rolleyes:).
I'd go further - in my experience, most of the time, dancing in the blues room is only actual blues dancing less than 50% of the time. Most of my dancing in MJ over the past few years has been in Blues Rooms, but even then I don't always dance "Blues". You dance to the music and to your partner.


Anyway, as we started dancing it was clear that she wasn't keen on being too up close and personal, so I danced slow Ceroc with her. Obviously you choose not to do moves that look daft done slow, such as catapults and any twisty-turny arm or tunnel moves. The odd drawn out sway, certain first-move variations, basket variations etc, maybe a pivot turn if it fits.
Cor, you sound like a proper dancer, all these fancy move names :)

"Slow Ceroc" is bloody difficult though - you tend to look like you're moving in slow motion ("walking on the Moon" as a friend once described it).


With time you'll start to realise which followers want to be 'bluesed' and which ones just want a nice musicality-led dance.
Yes, although the two are not exclusive. Even in a 100% grind dance, you can still inject musicality.

Gav
8th-February-2011, 11:03 AM
Cor, you sound like a proper dancer, all these fancy move names :)

Thanks, I've been reading the manual. :blush:


"Slow Ceroc" is bloody difficult though - you tend to look like you're moving in slow motion ("walking on the Moon" as a friend once described it).

It really does depend on the moves and the music. There are certain Ceroc moves that feel OK done slowly, but as you say, most feel horrible. Unfortunately, that's where my knowledge of move names lets me down (hence the heavy reliance on the word 'variations' :D).

David Bailey
8th-February-2011, 12:12 PM
Thanks, I've been reading the manual. :blush:
There's a manual? :blush:


Unfortunately, that's where my knowledge of move names lets me down (hence the heavy reliance on the word 'variations' :D).
You're ahead of me, I just call them "the twisty one" or whatever.

It's great in Tango, you can make up move names in Spanish, they always sound cool even when it's just "el twisto" or whatever. :D

whitetiger1518
15th-February-2011, 03:38 PM
So I decided not to waste the encouragement and advice you've all given, and had a few dances in the bar at Southport this weekend.

All that aside, there was some fantastic dancing in the bar and in the main room this weekend, so I did lurk a bit to watch/admire/learn. Eventually I do want to try and get to that level but it's just not fun being crap in the blues room (for me or my partners) so I'd rather get a lot more practice in the main room and at venues with a good mix of fast/slow music until I'm rather better than I am now.

Yay cederic Way to go for getting into the Blues room in the first place..:respect:

Please come and find me in May... I've just checked the weekender thread we will both be there.. I'm fairly hard to miss (the Tiger stripes, in the Blues room 75% of the time, and the Scottish accent kind of give me away. :lol: )

Slow Ceroc, a variety of Blues holds, whatever moves that aren't too difficult for me to follow from other dance types...lets just have fun.

Cheers Whitetiger

fandangle
16th-February-2011, 11:12 AM
I love this thread. Thank you Chef for putting into words things that I was a bit confused about. Thank you also cederic for baring all and making me realise that we are all in this together! :nice:

I can totally relate to this having recently started to learn Blues dancing and ,as I have said elsewhere, attended three Blues Workshops and a few classes. I still feel very much a beginner although I try and incorporate what I have learned at every opportunity (even while Jiving). I recently attended a weekender where I ventured into the "Blues" room with some trepidation. I needn't have worried as everyone I danced with, even people obviously much more accomplished than myself were very supportive and maintained that they enjoyed the dances. I certainly did but, as I explained before, it was a bit like going to a foreign country knowing just a few words of their language. I could get by with what I knew but was missing any real fluency. I suppose that comes with time and practice, however, I'm really enjoying learning. The biggest advance for me is that I feel far more confidence dancing in close hold now which gives me the opportunity to expand my grasp of musicality. :grin:

whitetiger1518
16th-February-2011, 02:45 PM
I needn't have worried as everyone I danced with, even people obviously much more accomplished than myself were very supportive and maintained that they enjoyed the dances. I certainly did but, as I explained before, it was a bit like going to a foreign country knowing just a few words of their language. I could get by with what I knew but was missing any real fluency. I suppose that comes with time and practice, however, I'm really enjoying learning. The biggest advance for me is that I feel far more confidence dancing in close hold now which gives me the opportunity to expand my grasp of musicality. :grin:

You know what they say about learning a foreign language - Total immersion is the best way to learn :drool: (As you may have guessed - Blues is my types of language :innocent: - I'm hopeless at ordinary languages :confused: )

Whitetiger