Joining in the Intermediate class or chatting

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
YIPPEE!!! Anyone else got any idea why people turn up in time for the lesson and positively don't do it - they even do this on a Tuesday at Hipsters. Do they think they're so good they don't need it?:devil: They like to meet up with their friends, and have a chat. And can do this while the class is on?

Steve

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by TheTramp
They like to meet up with their friends, and have a chat. And can do this while the class is on?

Steve

Franck we've got another 'plant' on the Forum. And this one's some sensible sounding guy who's somehow got The Tramp's password.

Putting aside that for a moment, what you're saying is that people go to a dance class which has the purpose of teaching people to dance, pay £5/6 for the class, don't do it and just chat with their mates. They could do that in a pub much more cheaply (although in a smoky atmosphere). And, I think this social interaction at the side of a class is rude. And I say that because in a class people get things wrong as they're learning new stuff. What they don't want to hear is laughter after they have got something wrong - very upsetting. Those people chatting with their friends often laugh - how does the dancer in the class who's just got it horribly wrong know that laughter wasn't directed at them?

..I'm sounding a bit to sensible to, sorry:wink:

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Anyone else got any idea why people turn up in time for the lesson and positively don't do it - they even do this on a Tuesday at Hipsters. Do they think they're so good they don't need it?:devil: Just an answer to one of your questions - as, while I still love doing classes, I very often sit out and watch instead. Definitely NOT because I think I'm too good. Normally, we don't even get to a venue until most, if not all, the class has finished anyway, but there are still occasions when we'll arrive for the start and still sit and watch it.

Basically because - I'm the one who drives us to venues (while Marc drives us home). And that's after having driven an hour home from work and, usually, I'm absolutely exhausted from previous nights out and not nearly enough sleep. When I arrive at a venue, often all I really want to do is sit down for a while, have a drink, and slowly get into the atmosphere and get my head out of work mode. I always like to have that slow 'warm up' at the start of an evening.

Marc, also will often watch classes - if he's really interested in the way someone's teaching something and getting their point across, he can concentrate better when he's not actually doing the moves as well. And sometimes he's just keeping me company while I'm warming up for the evening.

Those are our reasons, anyway. Of course, in an ideal world, we'd get to places earlier and have that relaxation period before any classes started!
Rachel

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Putting aside that for a moment, what you're saying is that people go to a dance class which has the purpose of teaching people to dance, pay £5/6 for the class, don't do it and just chat with their mates.

No, they pay for the freestyle, which presumably is still good value for them. The chatting with their mates comes for free!



And, I think this social interaction at the side of a class is rude. And I say that because in a class people get things wrong as they're learning new stuff. What they don't want to hear is laughter after they have got something wrong - very upsetting. Those people chatting with their friends often laugh - how does the dancer in the class who's just got it horribly wrong know that laughter wasn't directed at them?

I don't buy this at all, Andy.

I'm in the class getting it horribly wrong half the time, and I don't give a **** what the onlookers are thinking.

If they think I'm crap I probably agree with them anyway, but mostly I'm too busy trying to get the lesson to care what's going on at the sides.

Far ruder, IMO, is the incessant chat from the people IN the class, and those that are always turning up late and making it harder for the others.

Chris

[Mikey]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Franck we've got another 'plant' on the Forum. And this one's some sensible sounding guy who's somehow got The Tramp's password.

Putting aside that for a moment, what you're saying is that people go to a dance class which has the purpose of teaching people to dance, pay £5/6 for the class, don't do it and just chat with their mates. They could do that in a pub much more cheaply (although in a smoky atmosphere). And, I think this social interaction at the side of a class is rude. And I say that because in a class people get things wrong as they're learning new stuff. What they don't want to hear is laughter after they have got something wrong - very upsetting. Those people chatting with their friends often laugh - how does the dancer in the class who's just got it horribly wrong know that laughter wasn't directed at them?

..I'm sounding a bit to sensible to, sorry:wink:


I don't know of a class in the country that does not have people in it who may sit on the side while any class is taught, of course if you are so insecure in your dancing as to be effected by (GOD FORBID) anyone laughing with friends and enjoying themselves:devil:

Once again McGregor, is just goes to show how imperfect the world is for you.. what a shame you have to share it with all those souls who just spoil it for you all the time:tears:

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Rachel
Just an answer to one of your questions - ..big snip...

Sorry Rachel, I hope you don't think I was picking on you. We're both in the same position about Hipsters with the long drive on a week night. I try to get there for the lesson but can't always make it due to nomal life making it difficult, traffic, rain/fog, etc. I sometimes get there well after the lesson has started and decide that it's too late to join in too.

Don't you find it's hard to get up the following morning too:tears:

Andy

p.s. Message to Franck. Have we talked off topic (wasn't it Ceroc New Policy??) and sensibly for long enough for you to split this thread and bring the nice bit indoors?

I think the thread has now become 'What makes a great dancer'. It's awfully cold and wet out here and not having an active 'edit' button is tiresome. Please let us in - paws door and whimpers......

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by ChrisA
I don't buy this at all, Andy.

I'm in the class getting it horribly wrong half the time, and I don't give a **** what the onlookers are thinking.

If they think I'm crap I probably agree with them anyway, but mostly I'm too busy trying to get the lesson to care what's going on at the sides.

Personally, I agree with you, I even go one step further than you. I like people laughing at me from the sides because if they're laughing because of something they've seen me do it's with rather than at me.

But you and I have been dancing so long we have to admit that our own attitudes are no longer representative of most dancers. I have frequently seen people in the class getting it wrong and looking sheepishly over their shoulders at the people sat down around the sides. Sometimes they've even blushed.

[Minnie M]

Originally posted by ChrisA
No, they pay for the freestyle, which presumably is still good value for them. The chatting with their mates comes for free!

Chris

Thank you Chris :cheers:

I very rarely join a class - not because I think I am so good I don't need them - it is I dance for fun and am happy with the level I am at, at MJ - the class time is great to chat to friends (mainly the ladies) as we don't have that oportunity during the freestyle, and most events offer a reduced price for freestyle only.

It supposed to be social event too :wink:

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I even go one step further than you.There's a big surprise :D :D



But you and I have been dancing so long we have to admit that our own attitudes are no longer representative of most dancers. I have frequently seen people in the class getting it wrong and looking sheepishly over their shoulders at the people sat down around the sides. Sometimes they've even blushed. Fair point. At beginner level, I'm inclined to agree - beginners' confidence is well worth treating with kid gloves.

Beyond that I'm not so sure. If someone is in an intermediate class at all then they are already beyond the crushingly, cringeingly, painful embarrassment stage, or if they're like me, have learned how to change the embarrassment into motivation.

There are hordes of intermediates out there that go to classes week in, week out, turn up late, chatter in the classes, attempt to dance when the teacher says "just watch", fail to listen to how many on they're supposed to move, and so don't improve as much as they might. That's their choice, but for the most part I don't have a great deal of sympathy.

Maybe the ones that are putting all their effort into getting as much out of the class as they can, and giving the most to their partner as they can, don't have enough spare attention to be (even more) embarrassed by any onlookers.

Chris

[Dan]

Originally posted by Mikey
I don't know of a class in the country that does not have people in it who may sit on the side while any class is taught...

Once again McGregor, is just goes to show how imperfect the world is for you.. what a shame you have to share it with all those souls who just spoil it for you all the time:tears:

:rofl:

True.
It is all about perception. People may sit out because they either do not have the confidence to go to intermediate level or they can do the class but prefer to observe the teacher and some of the dancers to pick up technique points. People also laugh for different reasons and if any other person's interpretation of these activities will reflect that person's own view rather than the reality.

The same applies to dance refusals etc. I personally just take it as it comes. ;)

PS I have never met any "advanced" dancer who laughs at a less skilled one, far from it, any attention from a person at that "level" would be for something of some value to them.

[Lory]

I always go with the full intention of doing the class!

But, due to my inherent fear of drops, if I see one during the demo, my heart sinks and I sit out and watch :tears:

(I sit there very very envious of everyone who's joining in! Until I witness someone like poor Mary getting dropped, literally!) :what:

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Lory
But, due to my inherent fear of drops, if I see one during the demo, my heart sinks and I sit out and watch :tears:

There are very few drops taught in normal classes where you can't support yourself, though.

And you could just say that you didn't want to do the droppy bit - don't deprive yourself of the whole class just because of that.

:cheers: :cheers:

[Jon L]

Originally posted by Lory
I always go with the full intention of doing the class!

But, due to my inherent fear of drops, if I see one during the demo, my heart sinks and I sit out and watch :tears:

(I sit there very very envious of everyone who's joining in! Until I witness someone like poor Mary getting dropped, literally!) :what:

You normally can always simplify a drop taught in class by blocking with your outside foot, and taking a tiny step back

See Peter (Mr. Lizard) and Alina drops and seducers video number 1 for an explanation

[Jon L]

I will normally do the second class. Occasionally I may do the beginners class or the tail of it to get warmed up.

Normally I would do the second class. The exception has been where I have just done a salsa lesson and then moved on to another jive venue. This is because Salsa makes my brain ache, and in that scneario I would not be giving the teacher and women full attention which is not fair on them.

With people watching I don'r mind, though I wouldn't be too keen it if they appeared to be "deliberately" and "maliciously" taking the Mikey!

:grin:

[Lory]

Originally posted by Jon L
You normally can always simplify a drop taught in class by blocking with your outside foot, and taking a tiny step back

See Peter (Mr. Lizard) and Alina drops and seducers video number 1 for an explanation
If an alternative is given, then thats Brilliant!

Sometimes I join in to the point when they start working on the drop, (great if the drops the last move) then i simply sneak out during the rotation! shhhh:sorry

[Jon]

For some of us we like to mingle with our friends and the best time to chat is when theres no music playing, hence chat during the classes so you can hear!

It's not that we dont want to improve infact alot of people I know go to different venues and join in the classes but once or twice a week we sit out the lessons to chat and catch up.

You also find the people who sit out do sometimes go and join the beginner classes to help out when theres a shortage.

Of course there are other reasons for sitting out too and these could be:[list=1]
Cant be bothered because I'm too tired I'll save my energy for freestyle.
I'm just in the mood for watching, and looking at the style of other dancers.
I already know those moves
Theres a drop or a lift in the routine and I dont want to be injured
I dont like the way the teacher teaches
[/list=1]

[Will]

Originally posted by Jon
For some of us we like to mingle with our friends and the best time to chat is when theres no music playing, hence chat during the classes so you can hear!

It's not that we dont want to improve infact alot of people I know go to different venues and join in the classes but once or twice a week we sit out the lessons to chat and catch up.

You also find the people who sit out do sometimes go and join the beginner classes to help out when theres a shortage.

Of course there are other reasons for sitting out too and these could be:[list=1]
Cant be bothered because I'm too tired I'll save my energy for freestyle.
I'm just in the mood for watching, and looking at the style of other dancers.
I already know those moves
Theres a drop or a lift in the routine and I dont want to be injured
I dont like the way the teacher teaches
[/list=1]
6. I'm already involved in a seriously interesting conversation
7. I've only arrived halfway through the class don't feel like trying to catch up
8. Lily is roughing up the bottom of my shoe with her brush
9. I have bad wind
10. I am enjoying one of Franco's cool fresh lagers.

[DangerousCurves]

I agree with Lory's point. If you see something in the class that you don't want to do, then I think its an entirely personal matter if you then chose to sit it out.

For me its spins... I recently took part in a lesson where the ladies were continuously spinned and seldom returned. Spins are my weak point anyway, but by the end I felt nauseous for 20 minutes into the freestyle. I wouldn't willingly repeat that experience - but don't feel that I am being impolite to anyone else by choosing not to do the class.

DangerousCurves

[Emma]

Yes.

I admit it.

I am a Very Bad Person.

For about the last four or five weeks I haven't done the beginner's class....and sometimes I have also missed out the Intermediate class. I completely agree that everyone ought to join in..indeed it really irritates me when people *never* join in..it does (sometimes, to me) give the impression that these people are better than, know better than...etc etc. Especially if I suspect those people think that of themsleves already.

But you know what? Recently I haven't been in the mood. Recently it has suited me to arrive and spend some time chatting with people who are my friends and who I will not have a chance to chat with later because they and I are dancing. It's been enjoyable to sit with them for a while and have a laugh. I have needed that time for my own enjoyment. I expect that in a week or so I shall go back to dancing in the classes again, because I really enjoy it, and I really think that me doing the classes is valuable to my enjoyment, my dancing, and maybe even to the newer dancers (though frankly there are loads of other people just as valuable as me, so I don't think I'm terribly missed in that area).

Anyway. My point is - people have lots of reasons to not join in the classes. Some of them may be very selfish, and some of them may be very valid. I have learnt that it is a mistake to assume that just because you have excellent reasons for joining in a class it doesn't mean that the ones not joining in are against the reasons. :nice:

[Lory]

Originally posted by Will

9. I have bad wind


OH NOOOO, from now on, every time I see you sitting a class out, this horrid thought will run through my mind! :tears:

And later on, if I witness you doing some spectacular movement, I will be wondering what force is propelling you? :confused: :rofl:

[Jon L]

Originally posted by Lory
OH NOOOO, from now on, every time I see you sitting a class out, this horrid thought will run through my mind! :tears:

And later on, if I witness you doing some spectacular movement, I will be wondering what force is propelling you? :confused: :rofl:

I must admit, I get worried in a class if I can feel a methane emission coming on. I try to avoid eating onions before dancing for this reason!

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Jon L
I must admit, I get worried in a class if I can feel a methane emission coming on. I try to avoid eating onions before dancing for this reason! This is definitely heading into the 'Too much information' bracket. If it's not already there!!

Steve

[Will]

Originally posted by Jon L
I must admit, I get worried in a class if I can feel a methane emission coming on. I try to avoid eating onions before dancing for this reason!
Onions? May I also recommend avoiding Sprouts and Flapjack.

[Tazmanian Devil]

Originally posted by ChrisA
No, they pay for the freestyle, which presumably is still good value for them. The chatting with their mates comes for free!

True. I don't always do the lesson, not because I think im too good but sometimes I just dont do it. Thats not to say I never do the lesson mind. Usually I will watch the routine first to see whether i'm going to do the male or female part. :grin:





Originally posted by ChrisA
I'm in the class getting it horribly wrong half the time,



I find this Very hard to belive I have seen you dance, and seen you get through to the final of DWAS remember :wink: :wink:

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Tazmanian Devil
I find this Very hard to belive I have seen you dance, Well believe it !!


and seen you get through to the final of DWAS remember :wink: :wink:
I was very lucky with my partner. Next time all I need is that and a penguin coat :devil: :devil: :devil:

[TheTramp]

I hardly ever do lessons these days.

The main reason for this, is because I usually find that after a whole lesson, of doing the same, repetative movements, my knee is hurting so much that I really don't want to dance any more.

I'd prefer to save myself for the freestyle :D

(And yes, I know that I probably should take the 3-6 months off that the physio recommended!! :sick: )

Steve

[Dan]

Originally posted by Emma
Yes.

I admit it.

I am a Very Bad Person.

For about the last four or five weeks I haven't done the beginner's class....and sometimes I have also missed out the Intermediate class...
It's been enjoyable to sit with them for a while and have a laugh.

Yes. Very Bad Person. You should not be allowed in! :mad:

And the most unacceptable part is the laughter. You are not here to have fun or enjoy yourself, go join the line and do exactly what you are told. This is Ceroc remember. :devil: :devil:

[stewart38]

Originally posted by Mikey
I don't know of a class in the country that does not have people in it who may sit on the side while any class is taught, of course if you are so insecure in your dancing as to be effected by (GOD FORBID) anyone laughing with friends and enjoying themselves:devil:

Once again McGregor, is just goes to show how imperfect the world is for you.. what a shame you have to share it with all those souls who just spoil it for you all the time:tears:

No problem with people laughing and enjoying themselves but it can sometimes disrupt the class. Only sometimes and thats when the teacher starts throwing the board rubber

ps I thought we were going away from personal attacks :sick:

[Jon L]

Originally posted by TheTramp
I hardly ever do lessons these days.

The main reason for this, is because I usually find that after a whole lesson, of doing the same, repetative movements, my knee is hurting so much that I really don't want to dance any more.

I'd prefer to save myself for the freestyle :D

(And yes, I know that I probably should take the 3-6 months off that the physio recommended!! :sick: )

Steve


Steve do you wear knee supports under your trousers. ? you can buy them from Boots or sports shops.
Apologies if I am telling you stuff you already know.

[Mikey]

Originally posted by stewart38
ps I thought we were going away from personal attacks :sick: It was not a personal attack.. it was a fact !!!:what:

[Martin]

Originally posted by Mikey
It was not a personal attack.. it was a fact !!!:what:

I see you are trying hard to keep that bad boy image going Mickey:cheers:

[Mikey]

Originally posted by Martin
I see you are trying hard to keep that bad boy image going Mickey:cheers:

"Mickey" :devil:

[Tazmanian Devil]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Next time all I need is that and a penguin coat :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Martin]

Originally posted by Mikey
"Mickey" :devil:

Well whatever your name is nowadays:na:

:kiss:

[Debster]

Originally posted by Will
6. I'm already involved in a seriously interesting conversation
7. I've only arrived halfway through the class don't feel like trying to catch up
8. Lily is roughing up the bottom of my shoe with her brush
9. I have bad wind
10. I am enjoying one of Franco's cool fresh lagers.

Feeling argumentative...

11. I haven't seen these friends for weeks and won't have any other time to chat to them.
12. I'm networking (read: schmoozing to find a competition partner).
13. I'm socialising (read: schmoozing to get other gossip or dancing and competition tips).
14. I'm trying to avoid the one horrible bloke I don't even want to touch let alone dance with (this takes careful placement tactics in the starting queue).
15. And frankly, yes, I sometimes think there is nothing more I can learn by doing the class. (there is always more to learn through other means of course)

But I try hard not to disrupt it for others. There usually isn't another space to hang out and I rarely get there in time for a whole class anyway. And sometimes I do even join in just to meet the people.

[Divissima]

I may be joining you for the networking-schmoozing, Debster. TwK has had enough of competing, but I must be a glutton for punishment :sorry

[Debster]

Originally posted by Divissima
TwK has had enough of competing
Never thought I'd hear o' the day?!:what:

I guess the DJ gig has captured his imagination now - still an excuse to wear crazy clothes PLUS the power to control the event! :wink:

[Will]

RE: Debstar & Divissima

There you go guys - 2 of the top female dancers in the country looking for partners, and 3.5 months before Blackpool too!.... Have we ever had it so good?

Well so as not to inundate the forum with what could be a rather messy and accromonious scramble for these ladies. Both of them have PM'd me asking me to act as a broker between them and the hoards of male suiters waiting in the wings.

Simply apply for an audition via me. I will instruct you of a time and a venue shortly afterwards. Please note that all auditions will take place in London, and that there is a charge of £35 per audition with either of the above Fillies to be made payable to Mr W. Hargreaves Esq.

I thankyou.

[Divissima]

Originally posted by The Pimp:
either of the above Fillies
Steady, Will! :really: I wish I was even in the same league as the beautiful Debstar *sigh*

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Mikey
It was not a personal attack.. it was a fact !!!:what:

Hmm with that logic you could call anyone an idiot and it wouldn't be a personal attack if its true ? Stating as 'fact' an opinion on how someone else thinks is not exactly going to stand up in court so to speak - unless you're omniscient and can prove it :D

[Mikey]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Hmm with that logic you could call anyone an idiot and it wouldn't be a personal attack if its true ? Stating as 'fact' an opinion on how someone else thinks is not exactly going to stand up in court so to speak - unless you're omniscient and can prove it :D

To be honest here.. if you bothered to read the Mc'culprits posts in general he does little other than moan or criticise, so it kinda becomes a fact after a while, more so when you know him personally as I do..:tears:

[DangerousCurves]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Hmm with that logic you could call anyone an idiot and it wouldn't be a personal attack if its true ?

Well, hate to be picky but....

Normally if you call someone a facist, that is meant as a personal attack - but if you state "Hitler was a Facist" then it IS a fact, and not a personal insult. So Mikey's logic is correct.

[Boomer]

and thought I'd do my 'good deed' for the day.



sitting out classes, the one, the only, the original thread. (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1959)

P.S. any spelling mistakes are due to my mushy kebwoad

[Pammy]

I think you get todays prize - see below :wink:

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Pammy
I think you get todays prize - see below :wink:

What on earth am I supposed to do with those!?!

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Boomer
What on earth am I supposed to do with those!?!

Knowing your culinary skills (scrabledie eggies) I wouldn't suggest cooking :wink: :rofl:

[Chris]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Hmm with that logic you could call anyone an idiot and it wouldn't be a personal attack if its true ? Stating as 'fact' an opinion on how someone else thinks is not exactly going to stand up in court so to speak - unless you're omniscient and can prove it :D

and Curves:
Normally if you call someone a facist, that is meant as a personal attack - but if you state "Hitler was a Facist" then it IS a fact, and not a personal insult. So Mikey's logic is correct.

To say you know how someone thinks is just about acceptable IMO if that person is the recognised author of a particular line of thought and they acknowledge it. That would stand up in court IMO unless that person then pointed out that they had been misinterpreted.

To attribute particular thinking to someone is a lot more difficult. You can attribute actions - interpretation of the thoughts behind those actions is more a matter of opinion - even if an opinion reached by a body of jurors. The term fascist has a meaning which is not necessarily insulting - Hitler was a fascist afaik both by his own admittedly right wing views and (insultingly and retrospectively) by common use of the term in an insulting way. I doubt if someone qualifying as an 'idiot' medically would be capable of posting on this Forum at all. So it's ahem - insulting. (But we commonly accept you can get away with such minor insults on this forum - lowest common denominator - so it's not like demanding swords at sunrise for goodness sake.)


:wink:

[Lindsay]

This is getting a bit heavy'n' intellectual innit, especially for a Wednesday. Had to read that last post 3 times before it got in my tired & weary head. Mid-week slump & all that.

[Chris]

Originally posted by Lindsay
This is getting a bit heavy'n' intellectual innit, especially for a Wednesday. Had to read that last post 3 times before it got in my tired & weary head. Mid-week slump & all that.

:rofl: :rofl:
Yeah. Maybe see you for a dance at the weekend? (Back to saner levels of interaction)

[Jive Brummie]

Apology in advanced, but I've got my 'get-a-grip', cynical head on today.

Seeing as I pay my money like everyone else does to go dancing, is it not fair to say that I, along with all these other wonderful people can do what the hell we want. If I pay and then sit down all night, more fool me. It doesn't have anything to do with anybody else, and nor should it be interpreted as me being a) a hotshot or b) selfish:confused: :what: .

Sometimes it's just nice to watch other people boogie-ing (sp?) away.........

Rant over.....phew!!

James..:cheers:

[White Knuckle Ride]

Originally posted by DangerousCurves
Spins are my weak point anyway,

DangerousCurves

P'haps you should see Andy for tips. He's good at spinning. After all, he is a poilitician!:rofl:

[Bill]

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
If I pay and then sit down all night, more fool me.
James..:cheers:

and the chances of you being able to sit down all night are........... :wink: :D

[Jive Brummie]

Originally posted by Bill
and the chances of you being able to sit down all night are........... :wink: :D


You would be surprised old bean......... I don't get asked to dance that much:tears: :tears: (hint!!!!)

James.........x

[Bill]

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
You would be surprised old bean......... I don't get asked to dance that much:tears: :tears: (hint!!!!)

James.........x


people get scared of dancing with competition winners :D :na: but I'd love a dance next time we meet up. You follow so well...... :na: :D and I can try that great move you did with Melanie where you're groin to bum and grind away .......great move :yum: :cheers:

bet you can't wait now eh......... :whistle:

[sergio]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Franck we've got another 'plant' on the Forum. And this one's some sensible sounding guy who's somehow got The Tramp's password.
Putting aside that for a moment, what you're saying is that people go to a dance class which has the purpose of teaching people to dance, pay £5/6 for the class, don't do it and just chat with their mates. They could do that in a pub much more cheaply (although in a smoky atmosphere). And, I think this social interaction at the side of a class is rude. And I say that because in a class people get things wrong as they're learning new stuff. What they don't want to hear is laughter after they have got something wrong - very upsetting. Those people chatting with their friends often laugh - how does the dancer in the class who's just got it horribly wrong know that laughter wasn't directed at them?



Since when does anyone have to justify whether they take place in a class or not. People pay their money and do as they please!

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
You would be surprised old bean......... I don't get asked to dance that much:tears: :tears: (hint!!!!)

James.........x
Then, my dear Mr Lees, please may I have the pleasure tomorrow night at Marcos :flower:

[Jive Brummie]

Originally posted by Sheena
Then, my dear Mr Lees, please may I have the pleasure tomorrow night at Marcos :flower:

I know i said i don't get asked that much.....but some people don't even need to ask.............:flower: :hug: :kiss:

[Tiggerbabe]

Thanks James, it was wonderful :flower::hug: :grin:

[White Knuckle Ride]

Originally posted by DangerousCurves
I Spins are my weak point anyway,

DangerousCurves

Well that nailed 'em down on Saturday didn't it? However! About your UCP stuff? I think I see where you're going wrong...:D

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by DangerousCurves
Well, hate to be picky but....

Normally if you call someone a facist, that is meant as a personal attack - but if you state "Hitler was a Facist" then it IS a fact, and not a personal insult. So Mikey's logic is correct.

Yor're confused (see i can do patronising as well :) ), a facist is a set of beliefs - idiot is purely an insult and has never been anything else. Calling someone an idiot is purely an opinion, never a fact. So you changing one word for a completely different word doesnt make sense, but if you got a good lawyer you'd probably get away with it in court ;).

[Mikey]

.

[DangerousCurves]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Yor're confused (see i can do patronising as well :) ), a facist is a set of beliefs - idiot is purely an insult and has never been anything else. Calling someone an idiot is purely an opinion, never a fact. So you changing one word for a completely different word doesnt make sense, but if you got a good lawyer you'd probably get away with it in court ;).

No worries - not a bit patronising!

Your quote (which I responded to) used the phrase "Hmm with that logic you could call anyone an idiot and it wouldn't be a personal attack IF ITS TRUE?"

I was not debating whether or not calling someone an idiot was ever capable of being more than an opinion - since the quote took it as a given that it WAS capable of being a fact.

The issue was if something IS factually true (idiot, fascist, trainspotter, vegetarian :devil: etc) then does stating it necessarily amount to a personal attack? My example illustrated that it does not.

Confused, moi? I think not :wink:


and on a lighter note.....

Oi - White Knuckle Ride! What's this about my ucp moves then...you've never had any complaints before! Glad you liked the new improved spin though :flower: :grin:

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by DangerousCurves
Your quote (which I responded to) used the phrase "Hmm with that logic you could call anyone an idiot and it wouldn't be a personal attack IF ITS TRUE?"

That wasn't a phrase, it was a question - hopefully this will confuse the issue some more so i can appear more right :)
er...ok fair enough I misinterpreted your response and what you were responding to. Me saying IF ITS TRUE suggests it could be a fact when what i meant was 'if Mikey believed it was true' which suggests its a fact believed by him and but not necessarily by anyone else. I do think 'idiot' is always going to be a personal attack, but depending on how its said and who its said to it may not be particularly insulting. I dont think Andy and Mikey are going to be meeting for a relaxing cocktail together anytime soon though :).


Originally posted by DangerousCurves

I was not debating whether or not calling someone an idiot was ever capable of being more than an opinion - since the quote took it as a given that it WAS capable of being a fact.

thats not what i meant - believing something is a fact doesnt make it so, but you can have faith. 'Idiot' could be a fact as its defined as 'A foolish or stupid person.' or 'A person of profound mental retardation' . Mikey clearly has faith that one of these definitions applys to Andy, maybe he thinks he's merely foolish but his use of the word is an attack because of the word as well as the intent.


Originally posted by DangerousCurves

The issue was if something IS factually true (idiot, fascist, trainspotter, vegetarian :devil: etc) then does stating it necessarily amount to a personal attack? My example illustrated that it does not.

'foolish,'stupid' ,'retarded' or 'idiot' itself are either going to be personal opinion or medical fact but all are clearly personal attacks. Can you imagine someone using the phrase ' oh you lovely idiot you '....it would be a very quirky statement as its simply an attacking word.



Originally posted by DangerousCurves

Confused, moi? I think not :wink:

You may not be, but I am :)

[Emma]

Scathe: you're an idiot :wink: :hug:

[Bill]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Can you imagine someone using the phrase ' oh you lovely idiot you '....it would be a very quirky statement as its simply an attacking word.




sure I've heard that used almost as a term of endearment ...but usually said with a smile.................... :whistle:

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Emma
Scathe: you're an idiot :wink: :hug:


aaagh, a personal attack. Moderate yourself immediately. :D

[Bill]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
aaagh, a personal attack. Moderate yourself immediately. :D

but is that fact or opinion...........let's ask the lovely Mrs DS :D

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Bill
but is that fact or opinion...........let's ask the lovely Mrs DS :D

it could be both but its still a personal attack even though i never took offence as it was meant as a joke..probably :)

Bill, you should read some of the posts, you've missed the point you idiot :D

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
it could be both but its still a personal attack even though i never took offence as it was meant as a joke..probably :)

Bill, you should read some of the posts, you've missed the point you idiot :D

I'm the only official idiot on here, now back off buddy :mad: you're stealing my thunder! :tears:

[Bill]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe

Bill, you should read some of the posts, you've missed the point you idiot :D

you want me to start reading them.......where's the fun in that :eek: ............that could cause some of us to stray on the point...and then what would happen :na: :sick:

and now you have a rival for the forum resident idiot.......ooh could be a close call :D

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Bill
to stray on the pointI love this idea. Kinda sums up the whole forum... :rofl:

[Bill]

Originally posted by ChrisA
I love this idea. Kinda sums up the whole forum... :rofl:

absolutely........I didn't get to where I am today by straying on to the point............why I've made a whole career in teaching of deliberately not getting to the point and straying as far from it as I can. Great fun to watch the students' faces during a class :D :na:

Mind you it's worring that some of them seem to understand :sick: :whistle: .......oh well had better go and see my class. WOnder what I'll talk about now...................:D