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ChrisA
11th-December-2003, 12:39 PM
Responding to Lory's request, here's the poll she mentioned.

Lory
11th-December-2003, 01:00 PM
Thankyou Chris! :hug:

Will
11th-December-2003, 01:14 PM
Well option 3 for me.

Gotta say I don't think that this poll is a reflection of anti-ceroc bias. I know plenty of people who have a chip on their shoulders about Ceroc and still attend Ceroc venues. I know very few people who won't attend Ceroc out of principle, and even less who will only go to Ceroc out of principle.

Gus
11th-December-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Will
Well option 3 for me.

Gotta say I don't think that this poll is a reflection of anti-ceroc bias. I know plenty of people who have a chip on their shoulders about Ceroc and still attend Ceroc venues. ODA Mode On
And there is no-one who is Pro-Ceroc with a chip on each shoulder??
ODA Mode Off:wink:

ONLY JOKING ... true, there are some very warped people about who probably dont take a balanced view ... but lets not go there.

I think the poll should prove to be ineteresting. I think the Scottishe model, where people are quite happy to go to Ceroc, Route 66, Boggie Nights etc events is a good example to follow.

I may be wrong, but I find that the politics seems to be more tangible in London. Fair comment Will?

Bill
11th-December-2003, 01:34 PM
I'd imagine that as most folk on the forum are 'Cerocers' they won't actually vote for option 2 !!!! Would someone refuse to go to a Ceroc venue but still participate on the Forum ??

Sheepman
11th-December-2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Bill
I'd imagine that as most folk on the forum are 'Cerocers' they won't actually vote for option 2 !!!! Would someone refuse to go to a Ceroc venue but still participate on the Forum ?? Precisely! And "if it's good" is a bit wooly isn't it? . . .
For dance addicts wouldn't it be better to have, "I will go to Ceroc if it's the only option?" and "I will go to Independents if it is the only option?"

Baaa

Greg

Will
11th-December-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Gus
I may be wrong, but I find that the politics seems to be more tangible in London. Fair comment Will?
It's hard for me to say as I haven't really danced anywhere else for any length of time. It is possible though that Brighton is more of a warzone than London from what I've been reading here.

Chris
11th-December-2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Gus
I may be wrong, but I find that the politics seems to be more tangible in London. Fair comment Will?

As Will's in London, I think he's the wrong person to ask. And didn't you move from London, Gus? So maybe you are personally familiar with the politics there and so maybe a bit biassed.

I think there is equal politics everywhere - Scotland - Bristol - London - just that you notice it more if you're not a visitor. London do seem bad at washing their dirty linen publicly though, and because of the numbers involved it probably seems (or is) a bigger deal than elsewhere. Most places won't even admit it, and often that's the right course, especially if you are working actively to reduce tension, reduce the politics, increase cooperation and harmony.

My own response to the title of this thread is, thank goodness we have choice! I don't favour one over the other, and if I did it would probably be a temporary thing based on personal bias. So far the poll indicates that dancers just want a good dance - they don't care who they pay their money to (as long as it doesn't involve cruelty to animals or, in Andy's case, c i g a r e t t e s )
:kiss:

ChrisA
11th-December-2003, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Sheepman
Precisely! And "if it's good" is a bit wooly isn't it? . . .
That was intentional. The poll is intended to be about bias pro- or anti-Ceroc or the absence thereof. What is good for one person might not be for another. We could have another thread on "what's good" but I'm losing the will to live a bit now.


Originally posted by Bill
I'd imagine that as most folk on the forum are 'Cerocers' they won't actually vote for option 2 !!!! Would someone refuse to go to a Ceroc venue but still participate on the Forum ??
Originally posted by Sheepman
For dance addicts wouldn't it be better to have, "I will go to Ceroc if it's the only option?" and "I will go to Independents if it is the only option?"

Fair point.

Since it's about bias, maybe read it as "I would only go to Ceroc, even if there's an equally good alternative that isn't", and "I would never go to Ceroc, even if the one in question is very good.

Personally, if there are two good venues one Ceroc and one not, I try and go to both :D

Chris

Sheepman
11th-December-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA
I try and go to both :D On one night :really:
(Yes I know we've both done it!)

Greg

Emma
11th-December-2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Gus
ODA Mode On
And there is no-one who is Pro-Ceroc with a chip on each shoulder??
ODA Mode Off:wink: Don't be silly Gus...you can't dance with a chip on each shoulder, they keep falling off....:wink:

Honestly....some people *shakes head*

ChrisA
11th-December-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Sheepman
On one night :really:
(Yes I know we've both done it!)

It's so unfair that MJ venues don't keep nightclub hours.

If they did, one might be able to keep it up all night more often :D

Chris
11th-December-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Emma
Don't be silly Gus...you can't dance with a chip on each shoulder, they keep falling off....:wink:

Rubbish you sellotape them on - keeps you balanced - much better than one chip - and if you do it under your jumper it pads your shoulders nicely :wink: :wink:

Lory
11th-December-2003, 04:52 PM
Brilliant! So far, the result goes to prove my point!:cheers: :D

(the point being, we all just love to dance and as long as the atmosphere, the music, the floor and the people are nice, we're not fussy!

Lets hope the message gets through to everyone, new members especially! :wink: :cheers:

Alfie
11th-December-2003, 04:56 PM
Yep there are certain Ceroc venues I would not set foot in if they were the last dancefloor on the planet and it was free with naked hula girls on reception:wink:

Franck
11th-December-2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Alfie
Yep there are certain Ceroc venues I would not set foot in if they were the last dancefloor on the planet and it was free with naked hula girls on reception:wink: Shame, we have that regularly in Scotland :D

Franck.

ChrisA
11th-December-2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Alfie
naked hula girls
How would you know they were hula girls if they were naked?

:confused: :confused:

Chris
11th-December-2003, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA
How would you know they were hula girls if they were naked?

:confused: :confused:

They handed you their packet of hula hoops before getting into the shower? ;)

michael
11th-December-2003, 05:36 PM
Re: Venues

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Alfie
Yep there are certain Ceroc venues I would not set foot in if they were the last dancefloor on the planet and it was free with naked hula girls on reception
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally posted by Franck
Shame, we have that regularly in Scotland :D

Franck.

:what: Franck you hiding any particular venues from us guys:confused: :devil: :D

Jon L
11th-December-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Will
. It is possible though that Brighton is more of a warzone than London from what I've been reading here.


Yes theyre due for the Battle of Sussex with West and East Sussex going hammer and sword at each other :wink:

As mentioned in the last post - about why you leave or stay:I am atttacted to venues which are non smoking, have friendly dancers, great music, and plenty of space.

This could be a ceroc venue or a modern jive company, I don't care which really.

Alfie
11th-December-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA
How would you know they were hula girls if they were naked?

:confused: :confused:



By the Hula hip action obviously:wink: :wink: :wink:

frodo
11th-December-2003, 11:05 PM
Less interesting than the Hula girls, however ..


The one reason why I would not be happy to dance at a Ceroc venue is the membership agreement.


I recall a newspaper article about Ceroc mentioning in passing that all new members sign up to an agreement to protect Ceroc patents (or something like that), which I thought strange.

I have gone to dance classes in a number of styles and have never yet had to sign up to anything like that.


From other mentions on this forum it may be more in the form of a non-disclosure agreement on the moves.

Having a unfortunate tendency to read things such as the software licensing agreements you have to click 'OK' to in order to install software I have developed a dislike for them, and would rather not be going over a questionable legal agreement at a dance class.

Having said that I click 'OK' to plenty of ridiculous software license agreements, would like to try some Ceroc classes and workshops, and doubt it will be long before I have signed up to this agreement.


It may that the actual wording of the agreement is totally OK and reasonable. It would be nice however if Ceroc posted it clearly on their website so it could be checked before making the effort to travel to a Ceroc venue.

Chris
11th-December-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by frodo
The one reason why I would not be happy to dance at a Ceroc venue is the membership agreement.

I recall a newspaper article about Ceroc mentioning in passing that all new members sign up to an agreement to protect Ceroc patents (or something like that), which I thought strange.

From other mentions on this forum it may be more in the form of a non-disclosure agreement on the moves.

It may that the actual wording of the agreement it totally OK and reasonable. It would be nice however if Ceroc posted it clearly on their website so it could be checked before making the effort to travel to a Ceroc venue.

I think it's probably pretty ok unless it's changed. You can tick a box to say you want personal details to be kept confidential. Taxi-dancers agree not to be involved in competing dance stuff whilst employed as far as I recall. I think teachers sign a more binding agreement.

I do agree it would be better posted on the web, just to put people's minds at rest and put an end to rumour - at least if there's anything that new members have to sign - just to say what 'membership' entails. Other contracts for staff are always voluntary and I don't think it would be normal business practice to put those on the web (althoug I think it would be good practice in an ideal world).

I don't remember ticking anything about not wanting naked hula girls.

spindr
12th-December-2003, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by frodo
The one reason why I would not be happy to dance at a Ceroc venue is the membership agreement.


I recall a newspaper article about Ceroc mentioning in passing that all new members sign up to an agreement to protect Ceroc patents (or something like that), which I thought strange.

I have gone to dance classes in a number of styles and have never yet had to sign up to anything like that.

From other mentions on this forum it may be more in the form of a non-disclosure agreement on the moves.

Having a unfortunate tendency to read things such as the software licensing agreements you have to click 'OK' to in order to install software I have developed a dislike for them, and would rather not be going over a questionable legal agreement at a dance class.

If you're referring to my posting that was from an *old* agreement -- I am told that current wording doesn't include this -- the reason for posting was to show some history, etc -- however, it's probably a good idea to read anything you sign :)

Neil.

ChrisA
12th-December-2003, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by Chris
Taxi-dancers agree not to be involved in competing dance stuff whilst employed as far as I recall.Hooo dear I'm in trouble now...


I think teachers sign a more binding agreement.

Phew... no I'm not. I'm forever running into some of my fave Ceroc teachers and franchisees at Hipsters :D :D

If they tell so will I.


Originally posted by someone else, I forget..
membership agreement

Whatever.

The guys at my venue know by now that I am totally in support of them, as I have been for several years. They are real people, not touch-tone bl**dy phone systems. They realise I'm not trying to shaft them by doing stuff elsewhere, and we get along fine.

If you're just a punter like me, just sign it. Life's too short to read all that stuff. If anyone tries to hold you to something in it, it's the least of your problems.

Just dance, dammit.


Chris

TheTramp
12th-December-2003, 03:25 AM
Anything like that would be completely un-enforceable anyhow.

Wouldn't worry about it at all....

Steve

ChrisA
12th-December-2003, 04:33 AM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Anything like that would be completely un-enforceable anyhow.

Wouldn't worry about it at all....

Oh yeah, and that :D :D :D

I can safely say, that's not one of the things I worry about.

:cheers:

Sheepman
12th-December-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Anything like that would be completely un-enforceable anyhow.
That's what I thought too, though I can understand someone being cautious of such terms, especially if they've danced elsewhere. (I signed up my membership long before these were thought of, so never had to worry about it.)

Greg

frodo
13th-December-2003, 01:29 AM
Thanks for all the replies / info on the subject. It's nice to have different thoughts on the subject.



Originally posted by spindr
If you're referring to my posting that was from an *old* agreement -- I am told that current wording doesn't include this -- the reason for posting was to show some history, etc -- however, it's probably a good idea to read anything you sign :)
Neil. Thanks Neil

Your post was great as I think it is the first time I had seen anyone make a direct comment on the subject (and made it meaningful with the comment on showing a friend). It is certainly good news if it has been removed.

It reminded me of the issue, which did put me off casually attending a Ceroc class earlier this year.



As Chris says life is too short and as a punter I don't have much practical reason to care.


- Though I suppose if the worst sort of clause were enforced Ceroc dancers could only use the moves learnt at Ceroc with each other (at closed Ceroc venues that is). :)

Boomer
13th-December-2003, 03:56 AM
Originally posted by ChrisA
...We could have another thread on "what's good" but I'm losing the will to live a bit now...
Hey! Rumour has it that a recently reclusive ape, considered to be on the verge of extinction, shall be emerging from its habitat next week. Its choice of venue shall be based on location, inclusion of a beginners class and friendly atmosphere/people. Ceroc or not? Bleh! Just play the music so I can move in a vaguely dancey sort of way :waycool:


Oh, nearly forgot, naked hoola-girls would be good :waycool:

Tazmanian Devil
13th-December-2003, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Alfie
Yep there are certain Ceroc venues I would not set foot in if they were the last dancefloor on the planet and it was free with naked hula girls on reception:wink:


May I ask WHY :confused: :confused: :confused: At the end of the day if the music is good, and the people are nice (Which I find is always the case in the venues I go to/have visited!!) then whats the problem :confused:

Tazmanian Devil
13th-December-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Chris
Taxi-dancers agree not to be involved in competing dance stuff whilst employed as far as I recall.:confused: :confused: I don't remember such a rule when I agreed to be a taxi-dancer.
Originally posted by Chris
I don't remember ticking anything about not wanting naked hula girls. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Graham
13th-December-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by Tazmanian Devil
:confused: :confused: I don't remember such a rule when I agreed to be a taxi-dancer. Just to be clear, the rule Chris is talking about refers to being involved in the promotion/organisation of non-ceroc events. It doesn't mean you're not allowed to attend other events.

Gus
14th-December-2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Graham
Just to be clear, the rule Chris is talking about refers to being involved in the promotion/organisation of non-ceroc events. It doesn't mean you're not allowed to attend other events.

The rules have changed greatly over recent years ... up till recently even DJs were supposed to sign a contract not allowing them to particpate at non-Ceroc events ... in the same way as the Teachers contract doen't (or didn't) allow you to teach ANY other dance ... even if you were a profesional teacher in, say, Salsa:sick:

To be fair ... dont think anybopdy gave a blind bit of notice to such regulations anyway:wink: