Complete Novice.

[Ginger God]

Folks....

Three weeks ago I simply could not dance at all..and I mean couldnt.
I have now been to 5 classes, all in Edinburgh with one being at St Stephen Street which was fab and very busy.
Have to say that I am nowhere near being a decent dancer but I now have no problems getting girls up on the floor. Have probably learned about 15 moves, practising them is fine, but when it comes to..every man/woman for themselves i.e freestyle the odd mind block sets in. I get to a position where I am thinking..ok..where are you going now....and boom..it all falls apart..
The girls I dance with are great though..ever helpful and it looks as though they arent bothered that you forget.
So..just as a rule....at what point will it all come together time wise? If I had to say what my biggest problem so far is..its getting caught with the wrong hand for what I want to do next..so its into the comb to free everything up...
Not looking to be Fred Astaire here..just to be able one day to be a good dancer...
Bit like Strictly for me this...stop playing football on a Thursday..start ceroc....

Graham

[philsmove]

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the world of MJ
don't worry about mind blocks, it happens to every one
just do a very simple move, eg change places
It is more difficult for leaders, as we have to think a bit in advance, but don't worry, keep dancing and it will all fall into place

[Yliander]

Graham great to hear that you enjoying dancing so far, welcome to the never ending journey :D

As to when it will come together, in my experience of teaching beginners it’s around the 6/8 week mark (although it is different for everyone) that leads start to find they are having to think a little less about the immediate move, able to think a little further ahead in the dance and are better able to cope when they end up where they don’t expect to

the comb is a perfect escape from many a mix up :)

Look forward to seeing you on a dance floor soon.

[Lost Leader]

Welcome to the forum.

If you have a good poke around in the beginners corner area of the forum you will find several threads about (surprisingly enough) what it is like being a beginner. There's lots of experiences just waiting to be discovered and plenty of good advice too.

As a beginner lead you are being pretty brave and ambitious doing a free-style after just a few weeks dancing, but don't worry too much about it. We've all had similar experiences.

One of the commonest misconceptions is that you need to know as many moves as possible. This simply isn't the case. It is much more important to be able to execute one or two moves smoothly and correctly whilst keeping in time with the music. To begin with just concentrate on getting the very simple basics of dancing right by selecting just 4 to 6 moves you can execute really well and concentrate on making them as smooth as possible.

Any follower will tell you that they would rather dance with someone who uses just a handful of moves but does them really well than someone who tries loads of different moves but does most of them badly. Keep doing the beginner review class until you really know most of the beginner moves inside out. You may think you know these already, but trust me, you almost certainly don't - there's a lot more to them than meets the eye and it really is worth spending time getting to know them really well.

[Lou]

..so its into the comb to free everything up...

Now where have I heard that before? :innocent:


Sounds like you're doing just fine! :D

[dave the scaffolder]

15 moves in 3 weeks, bugger me. I have 8 moves and it took me 4 years.

Slow down speedy.

You are on a journey mate, relax and enjoy the ride.

DTS XXX XXX

The Horror!
The Horror!!
Oh!!!
The Horror!!!!

[Ginger God]

Hey to Pans People who have all replied..thanks...
Right..gonna nail 6 moves brilliantly..think if I ever meet the scaffolder he will knock some sense into me with a pole...good call mate..made me laugh.

If someone had said to me years ago....Graham..you will dance and enjoy hoovering about the dance floor...I would have phoned the funny farm for them...never had so much fun and terror joined together in a long time...

[Andy McGregor]

Think of kissing. Do you want to have loads of ways of kissing? Or do you want to be fabulous at a few?

Dancing is the same. Women (and DTS) like moves to be executed in a nice way. If you have a few moves that you do well you should stick to them. You won't be thanked for digging around with your tongue just to see what happens - not even by DTS :whistle:

[Gadget]

... but when it comes to..every man/woman for themselves i.e freestyle the odd mind block sets in. I get to a position where I am thinking..ok..where are you going now....and boom..it all falls apart..

So..just as a rule....at what point will it all come together time wise? If I had to say what my biggest problem so far is..its getting caught with the wrong hand for what I want to do next..so its into the comb to free everything up...

When does it all "come together"?
There are a few 'stages' I think, (at least there were for me)

- The first was when I hit on of your 'blocks' and then rewound the move; more a case of following the advice of whatever happens, don't stop dancing. The follower followed it, I got a surprised "What was that?" with smile and it occurred to me that I don't need to follow one move with another move, I can just rewind A. Cool - I've just doubled my repertoire.

- I linked two or three moves together so that they flowed in a nice 'micro routine' without returns and I could slip into it while I looked about for inspiration. (Man-spin, shoulder-slide, step-across - tricky bit is catching again with the hand you let go of on the man-spin.) Removing the returns came as a bit of a plunge: no space to think or recover any more.

- I went to a beginner workshop (Franck taught it with Lorna as Demo... I won't say how long ago :wink: ) and the comradeship gained from spending a whole day with the same small group of folk, learning the same moves and same techniques lasted for years. These people I knew were at the same level as me and I had the comfort of relaxing and screwing things up with no fear of repercussions. (However imaginary they may be)

- Then I kinna worked out that you only have two hands: you can either lead a move with one, the other or both. And some moves change your hands. And some moves let you choose the hand. So I made a "move map". (erm... here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7795)) The actual map didn't help me, but the thought involved in creating it did.

- It then hit me that all the intermediate moves were just bits of beginner moves... so that means that moves are actually just a sequence of movements... just like a class is a sequence of moves.... So I broke down the moves into movements that you do on each count. And I realised that there are only so many (clear) positions you can place your hands to lead the follower. If it's quantifiable, then it's no longer some mystic art that only talented folk can learn. I wrote other stuff and thought some more.

At this point I would say I was a competent dancer: I could lead moves with relative ease and was even trying to make my own stuff up. I attended workshops that then opened my eyes and showed me exactly what should be involved in leading (& following) a move - up to that point, a lead just involved moving my hand from position A to position B: the follower is attached - therefore they move. Simples.

Each thing I've learned from that point onwards has thrown up another couple more things to learn or do better. Musicality, connection, self-control, timing, balance, style, ... I really enjoyed throwing myself into the music and throwing my partner about the floor with reckless abandon :D I still really enjoy it, but I make less of a splash when I hit the music and tend to flow with it now rather than splash about in it. (... well most of the time anyway :whistle: )

Have a look at some of the links on my syg and perhaps this thread: Improving my dancing (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3116)

{BTW, welcome - you can check-out any time you like, but you can never leave :innocent:}

[Ginger God]

Am I missing something here...........or do I have to snog DTS before I become competent:doh:.

The replies so far are great..thanks very much..will try and put a wee routine together before I unleash the beast on the girls of St Stephen Street on Tuesday night....talk about setting yourself up for a fall...

[Andy McGregor]

Am I missing something here...........or do I have to snog DTS before I become competent:doh:.

The replies so far are great..thanks very much..will try and put a wee routine together before I unleash the beast on the girls of St Stephen Street on Tuesday night....talk about setting yourself up for a fall...Please don't start putting together your own personal routine. It won't fit the music and your regular partners will start to remember your routine and anticipate the next moves rather than following properly.

On the other hand, you can put together moves that flow nicely together: probably two or three moves.

The key thing I tell my students is to stop worrying about learning more and more moves. As I said with the kissing, it's not what you do, it's the way you do it. If you do something that gives a lady pleasure she won't complain if you do it the same way over and over* again :waycool:


* & over and over and over and over ...

.. oh YES!!!

[DavidY]

- Then I kinna worked out that you only have two hands: you can either lead a move with one, the other or both. And some moves change your hands. And some moves let you choose the hand.... and even if you end up on a hand you don't want, there's no law that says you can't change hands - eg. just after you return your partner. It's not a real "move", but really easy to do, so worth practising to help get out of trouble if you want to be on the other hand.

[Gadget]

... and even if you end up on a hand you don't want, there's no law that says you can't change hands - eg. just after you return your partner. It's not a real "move", but really easy to do, so worth practising to help get out of trouble if you want to be on the other hand.
{yeah - I won't tell you how long it took me to work that one out :blush: ... even longer to work out that the follower won't just vanish if you let go of a hand when you're stuck :blush::blush:}

[StokeBloke]

Welcome to the maddest trip of your life :eek:

All great advice so far; none of which you need to hear me repeat. So, I would just add one small piece of advice - travel. Get out there and dance with as many different people as you can. Your dancing will improve dramatically for it and you'll not get stuck in a rut with your dancing. Check out THIS SITE (http://www.uk-jive.co.uk/region-list.asp?RegionID=7) for details about loads of dancing in and around your area :D

[Andy McGregor]

I would just add one small piece of advice - travel. Get out there and dance with as many different people as you can. Your dancing will improve dramatically for it and you'll not get stuck in a rut with your dancing. Check out THIS SITE (http://www.uk-jive.co.uk/region-list.asp?RegionID=7) for details about loads of dancing in and around your area :DBut take care where you go. You don't need to be competent before you get snogged by DTS so you need to avoid everywhere he dances. The man is built like a gorilla and will hold your head while he snogs you - the only advice I can give is to clench your teeth to avoid his tongue tickling your tonsils :sick:



Clench your buttocks too ...





.. DTS likes a nice, clenched bottom :wink:

[Gadget]

A couple of threads came to mind...
Defining Moments (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15060)
and
What are you working on? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7082)

but searching for them I came across these too:
MJ Basics (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18313) (About footwork and what defines the dance)
Can Anybody become a good dancer? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18246) (Relevant to the initial question)

[Ginger God]

Im taking this all on board..brain has exploded a couple of times today..
Want to qualify what I said yesterday when I went on about putting a routine together..I did actually mean learning some moves that flow into the other..suppose dancing is the same as marriage...gets boring quicklyif you keep it the same:lol:...so will attempt to keep it upbeat and different...

[daveb9000]

Yay, another Edinburgh dancer :)

The main advice is just to practise. It starts to come together when you no longer have to think about the moves as you are doing them, giving you more time to think about what move/s you want to do next. This then leads to fitting the moves in with the style/tempo of the music.

See you on Thursday/Tuesday

[whitetiger1518]

Welcome to the addiction Ginger God :)


The key thing I tell my students is to stop worrying about learning more and more moves. As I said with the kissing, it's not what you do, it's the way you do it. If you do something that gives a lady pleasure she won't complain if you do it the same way over and over* again:yeah: Andy

I must admit to taking this to extremes :devil: After all some of my favourite dancers lead me in one move per track (Particularly good with musicallity in the blues room :blush:)

Now when can we entice to the West to dance GG? Looking forward to dancing with you (If you want to avoid me Tiggerbabe among others, knows who I am ;) )

Cheers Whitetiger

[Chef]

All good advice so far - so I won't repeat it. Just want to add my few comments.

Don't be hard on yourself. We all started from the same place as you and almost all of us can rememeber what that feels like.

We have passion for dancing and will want to help and encourage those people that share that passion.

Everyone is trying their best and our bests will get better at different rates. So if you feel you are a slow learner just accept that you are not progressing as fast as you would like and that everyone wants to be brilliant - right now! If you feel that you are the most wonderful, fast learning and able new dancer to hit the dance scene in a decade then keep that to yourself. You probably aren't and nobody likes a deluded smart arse.

If you find that a move that you do doesn't feel silky smooth then analyse it, ask teachers, and track down the problem. None of the moves are designed to be jarring and none of the women like them with the jarry bit in them.

So when does it start to click into place? For me it was at my first weekender after I had been dancing for 7 months. For me there is something about being totally immersed in dance for that length of time that made one move transition to the other without having to think very hard indeed. Might be different for you but thats how it happened for me.

Remember that dancing is the home of women with good thighs, shortish shirts, and nice dresses and you get to dance with about 10 of them an hour. What is there not to like? Enjoy your journey.

[Andy McGregor]

.. you get to dance with about 10 of them an hour.Cutting down?

[Ginger God]

Whitetiger...what is this....Dating In The Dark.....:lol:

Not sure whether I should dance through in the Weeg...I should really use the phrase dance quite loosely though..perhaps it should be newbie hoovering the dancefloor slowly but surely:wink:.
I shall however ask Tiggerbabe the necessary questions...

Chef....I came home from the Edinburgh class last night thinking....I only asked two girls to dance in an hour...I was asked every other time...nightmare when you are single like me...far too many lovely girls there....

Anyway thats 8 classes and still loving it..although if Tiggerbabe spins any more than once when dancing with me..I go to pieces....well Im a bloke and cannae multitask.....

[Chef]

Chef....I came home from the Edinburgh class last night thinking....I only asked two girls to dance in an hour...I was asked every other time...nightmare when you are single like me...far too many lovely girls there....

Yup, it is a tough job but somebody has to do it. The dance world is full of guys wishing they had started dancing 10, 20, or even 30 years ago in my case. Before the days of gender balancing at weekenders the women could be three deep on the edge of the dance floor and they would hunt you like a tiger bringing down a gazelle as you finished one dance and tried to get off the dance floor. Sounds like heaven but I can tell you you got quite desparate after about an hour to have just one tracks rest and a drink. Oh well, at least having women asking you to dance is one of the nightmares that you don't want to wake up from.

I just can't persuade men in their late teens or early 20s to start dancing (part of wanting to share the passion for dancing bit). They just seem to think that dancing with women is not cool (explain that bit to me again). They tell me that getting drunk in a pub and chatting up drunk women is cool. Work smarter, not harder, single man. Most people join the dance scene for the social aspect rather than having a single minded desire to either dance or find a mate but if romance does happen along then few object.

[daveb9000]

although if Tiggerbabe spins any more than once when dancing with me..I go to pieces....well Im a bloke and cannae multitask.....

Just smile and hold out your hand, she'll take it when she's ready :nice:

[Ginger God]

I smile at her all the time doesnt make a blind bit of difference when she is in "the zone"....I just get dizzy watching...

[whitetiger1518]

Whitetiger...what is this....Dating In The Dark.....:lol Cheeky :innocent: I'm not that bad a flirt (unless in the Blues room if I'm honest)


Not sure whether I should dance through in the Weeg...
I know quite a few of us Glasgae Girls travel - but not all of us, so you never know what spectacular dances and dancers you will be missing -(what a shame :() oh and I do travel - so by avoiding Glasgow you aren't avoiding me - as the Aberdeen dancers know to their cost :lol:



Anyway thats 8 classes and still loving it..although if Tiggerbabe spins any more than once when dancing with me..I go to pieces....well Im a bloke and cannae multitask.....

Leave Tiggerbabe [or any of the more experienced dancers] room and time to play and you will come off the floor having enjoyed yourself and I'm sure they will too. Not only this, but you might gain a reputation for allowing followers to play - which might mean that as well as looking spectacular (with minimum effort), you might well get asked more.:worthy:

Cheers Whitetiger

[gamebird]

All good advice so far -

Everyone is trying their best and our bests will get better at different rates. So if you feel you are a slow learner just accept that you are not progressing as fast as you would like and that everyone wants to be brilliant - right now! If you feel that you are the most wonderful, fast learning and able new dancer to hit the dance scene in a decade then keep that to yourself. You probably aren't and nobody likes a deluded smart arse.

If you find that a move that you do doesn't feel silky smooth then analyse it, ask teachers, and track down the problem. None of the moves are designed to be jarring and none of the women like them with the jarry bit in them.

:yeah:


Remember that dancing is the home of women with good thighs, shortish shirts, and nice dresses and you get to dance with about 10 of them an hour. What is there not to like? Enjoy your journey.:rofl:er...some of us are still working on those bits...:flower:

[jeanie]

All good advice so far - so I won't repeat it. Just want to add my few comments.

Don't be hard on yourself. We all started from the same place as you and almost all of us can rememeber what that feels like.

We have passion for dancing and will want to help and encourage those people that share that passion.
:yeah:


Remember that dancing is the home of women with good thighs, shortish shirts, and nice dresses
Tiggerbabe is the queen of pretty dresses....(:awe: I want to steal them!!) *especially* when doing lots of ......


spins any more than once when dancing :D

[Ginger God]

Well...........11 classes in and 7 weeks..tried my first intermediate class last night....must be getting a bit gallous.....
Anyway.....first two moves were ok then got completely lost and it felt like being back at week one of beginners..but not so scary as I remember all of the beginners moves now.
Been a fab wee journey so far so to all the girls that have been good enough to dance with me so far....thank you...
Now where was my tight black satin shirt....

[Martin]

Well...........11 classes in and 7 weeks..tried my first intermediate class last night....must be getting a bit gallous.....
Anyway.....first two moves were ok then got completely lost and it felt like being back at week one of beginners..but not so scary as I remember all of the beginners moves now.


Congratulations..

As to the intermediate class, yes it can be a bit confusing when you first try it out.

In the Gold Coast, they suggest 3 months in the beginners and then beginners revision class, then a further 3 months in the beginners, followed by the "introduction to intermediate" follow up class, before entering the intermediate class (at 6 months).

It is not a race.. although most people want to run before they can walk...

Time spent getting the beginners moves really flowing, is not wasted time.

When you can comfortably execute all beginner moves smoothly, in any order and feel relaxed doing so (even when tiggerbabe does multile spins :whistle:) then my opinion is that it is time to try intermediate....

Well done and all the best in your journey...

[Chef]

Now where was my tight black satin shirt....

If you have somebody in your life that loves you they will have secretly burnt it by now.:grin:

Welcome to your first Ceroc Christmas. Lively enough for you?

[Andy McGregor]

If you have somebody in your life that loves you they will have secretly burnt it by now.:grin::rofl:

As I'm still the owner of a fairly tight blue satin shirt with white lace cuffs and matching lace neckerchief (a la Austin Powers) I must be unloved :tears:

[Chef]

:rofl:

As I'm still the owner of a fairly tight blue satin shirt with white lace cuffs and matching lace neckerchief (a la Austin Powers) I must be unloved :tears:


You are still loved. It is just that they have, after many attempts, given up trying to save you from yourself. Men over 30 should refrain from wearing anything that can be described as "tight"

[Andy McGregor]

Men over 30 should refrain from wearing anything that can be described as "tight"Thank goodness I can keep my figure-hugging rash vest for few more years :whistle:

[Ginger God]

If you have somebody in your life that loves you they will have secretly burnt it by now.:grin:

Welcome to your first Ceroc Christmas. Lively enough for you?

My Mum says I look fab in it.............
Yup..certainly lively enough...seem to have stirred up a hornets nest here..can see all the metrosexuals are coming out to play!!!

[Double Trouble]

Men over 30 should refrain from wearing anything that can be described as "tight"

Rubbish! I can think of plenty of 30, 40, 50 something men and one who's in his 60's (Petenic) who are fit, slim and muscular and who could easily get away with a nice fitted "tight" shirt. It's a body shape thing, not an age thing.

Ginger God looks slim in his profile pic...I say get the black satin shirt on love, and dance yourself dizzy.

[Andy McGregor]

..can see all the metrosexuals are coming out to play!!!I'm not sure Modern Jive nights are expensive or stylish enough for metrosexuals. Speaking for myself, I'm a "Country Member".

[Andy McGregor]

I'm a "Country Member".I remember :innocent:

[Chef]

. Speaking for myself, I'm a "Country Member".

Yes, I remember.

P.S. Darn you beat me to it.