The end of the bookshop as we know it?

[Gav]

Hmmm, I think there could be a song in that thread title...

Last week, publishing company Blackwell's announced their new 'in-store' Print on demand facility.

I don't know how many people are aware, but the old way of producing books (that is, print thousands of copies, store them in a warehouse and distribute them as and when needed) has been disappearing.
Print on demand has taken over (I've used it myself), where you submit your electronic files and they're held in a library. When you, Amazon or a bookstore need copies, the printers use amazing laser printers to produce as many copies as are needed (from one to one million).

Anyway, it seems this technology has made it to the high street, because now you can walk into Blackwell's (currently only on Charing Cross Road) and have the book you want printed in as little as 5 minutes!
It means you can get any rare or out of print books you want without having to hunt around for them.

Could this also mean that bookshops will become small, self-service kiosks in the future? Having virtually no staff and tiny or no premises could save bookstore owners a fortune.

I can see the need for progress, but I'll miss being able to browse around a book shop. :sad:

[whitetiger1518]

I think it might be a little like the self service tills at Boots, the library or the supermarkets: (Also like e-readers, DVDs instead of Blueray, online shops instead of the highstreet etc etc....)

I suspect that these print options may be used by a few for a lot of additional print options, but that the Status Quo will be upheld. Most people will still want the option of browsing.. I don't think there will be a true replacement for the luxury of browsing through a bookshop (old or new), the atmosphere is so much part of the experience!

More examples include: TV, which was supposed to kill cinema. The telephone (particularly the mobile) talking, and e-books - printed books.

The only true elimination of technology in years just past has been DVD/ Freeview killing off Video, and even then the vocabulary lingers on! I think the previous death to technology was the telegram!

I'm particularly in favour of the out of print option - some of my favourite authors have half their output out of print :banghead: (or should that now be :clap:?)

Whitetiger

[ducasi]

Why waste paper and toner? Ebooks are the future. The book will go the way of the CD.

[Gav]

I just heard on another discussion group that apparently it's still quite expensive (10p per page) and the quality isn't very good, even compared to trade paperbacks.
So, at least for the time being, it will probably remain a useful resource for out-of-print books.

[whitetiger1518]

Good point - but CDS haven't died completely. There are plenty still in use. I have my Mp3 player for on the move - but CDs wake me up in the morning..

OK, How long that continues depends upon how quickly DAB and mp3 technology evolve and fall in price..

WT

Oh and ebooks short out if you drop them in the bath!

[batnurse]

Why waste paper and toner? Ebooks are the future. The book will go the way of the CD.

Nooooo :eek: :( :naughty:

[ducasi]

It may take a generation or two, and there will still be some books, newspapers, CDs, DVDs, etc., produced, but the world is going digital.

[straycat]

Why waste paper and toner? Ebooks are the future. The book will go the way of the CD.

I think there's still a place for both. Having said that, the majority of books I buy nowadays are eBooks. The ability to have a 200 book library in your pocket where ever you go is not to be sniffed at...

[Gav]

I can't see it changing until children begin with ebooks and don't have printed ones from an early age; and frankly, I can't see that happening in the near future.
I haven't really put any effort into trying ebooks, but they just don't appeal to me as much as a printed copy.

[Maxine]

Why waste paper and toner? Ebooks are the future. The book will go the way of the CD.

It's only a waste if the books are not read.


It may take a generation or two, and there will still be some books, newspapers, CDs, DVDs, etc., produced, but the world is going digital.

:tears:I do hope not (not going to panic yet) but one of life’s great pleasures is curling up on the sofa and immersing yourself in a book.

I never buy books in a supermarket as I prefer to support the book shops. I like to buy books as presents, so just browsing through the books is important

[Little Monkey]

I
:tears:I do hope not (not going to panic yet) but one of life’s great pleasures is curling up on the sofa and immersing yourself in a book.

:yeah:

You can't relax with a book if you've got to sit at the computer to read it! I want a real book, with real paper in it, and real print, and covers with pretty pictures on them, that I can pop in my bag to take with me when I'm going travelling, or to curl up with on my bed with a nice cup of tea.... Besides, I don't like reading things on a screen. It gives me headaches after a while.

I've got hundreds of books, and will probably buy hundreds more in my lifetime! :D

[straycat]

:yeah:

You can't relax with a book if you've got to sit at the computer to read it!

I fully agree there - I can't read an eBook on a computer either. Curling up on the sofa with an iPhone, on the other hand, is not a problem for me :cool:

[Dreadful Scathe]

Last week, publishing company Blackwell's announced their new 'in-store' Print on demand facility.

I don't know how many people are aware, but the old way of producing books (that is, print thousands of copies, store them in a warehouse and distribute them as and when needed) has been disappearing.
Print on demand has taken over (I've used it myself), where you submit your electronic files and they're held in a library. When you, Amazon or a bookstore need copies, the printers use amazing laser printers to produce as many copies as are needed (from one to one million).

Anyway, it seems this technology has made it to the high street, because now you can walk into Blackwell's (currently only on Charing Cross Road) and have the book you want printed in as little as 5 minutes!
It means you can get any rare or out of print books you want without having to hunt around for them.

Could this also mean that bookshops will become small, self-service kiosks in the future? Having virtually no staff and tiny or no premises could save bookstore owners a fortune.

I can see the need for progress, but I'll miss being able to browse around a book shop.

I was aware of the big increase on print on demand. lulu.com and blurb.com are 2 big players in the online market - self publishing is a real affordable option nowadays. I recommend lulu -, 10 isbns for £75 last i looked. Nothing much is going to change any tiem soon in book shops - a printed book that you can pick up and buy, rather than wait for, is still going to be what most people want. E-books are a great idea but they are marketed badly - an ebook reader shold cost you no more than £30. And in fact they don't - you can get Sony Clies from ebay from £15 and they have decent screens, instant bookmarks (if something happens you want to close the book instantly then carry on later), easy transfer (drag and drop onto memory stick), and a great battery life (with heavy use the battery lasts about a week). The only issue is possibly the screen, an lcd with backlight is not as good as e-ink - but an e-ink e-book reader costs 15-20 times the price and does far less ... awful value for money. I have 2 Sony Clies and have read a good 30 or so entire books on them, whilst still being able to take notes and play the occasional game. Far handier than a paperback, especially when you have a large library with you on the card when you've finished a book and are looking for the next.


I think it might be a little like the self service tills at Boots, the library or the supermarkets: (Also like e-readers, DVDs instead of Blueray, online shops instead of the highstreet etc etc....)
More examples include: TV, which was supposed to kill cinema. The telephone (particularly the mobile) talking, and e-books - printed books.
The only true elimination of technology in years just past has been DVD/ Freeview killing off Video, and even then the vocabulary lingers on! I think the previous death to technology was the telegram!


Yes fax and email pretty much killed off telegrams. I'm confused about the telephone killing off talking ? Surely it facilitates it :confused: is that what you meant ?

Digital photo processing has killed traditional film for the general public.

Digital disc killed off magnetic tape, but thats a natural progression to a better storage medium rather than any move to a new technology. Interestingly we skipped VCDs but they were big in the far east . I have no idea what you mean by "vocabulary lingers on":confused:).

Tv and Cinema are 2 very different markets; The "TV killing cinema" quote was when videotape came out, and it was wrong - films took a long while to come out on tape and they remain very different markets despite todays big TV. Freeview is killing of Analogue TV but thats offical government policy so we have no choice in the matter :) . Supermarkets killed off a lot of the specialist town centre shops. Video killed the radio star :)


It may take a generation or two, and there will still be some books, newspapers, CDs, DVDs, etc., produced, but the world is going digital.

Cough...CDs and DVDs ARE digital ;) But i agree with your point :)

[Barry Shnikov]

It's difficult to resist the conclusion that in 50 years time books will be downloadable on demand, possibly with some kind of copy protection system, and there won't be a bookshop in the western world.

e-book readers are still clumsy and expensive, but in 5 years time they will have made as much or more progress as the last five years in mobile phones. It may even be that eventually they will become objects of sensuous delight just as - e.g. - a Folio Society book is today.

There are already web sites where you can download enormous quantity and selection of e-book files (illegal, pirate copies, I mean) and if the book trade doesn't sort themselves out sharpish they will be in the same deep doodoo as the music biz within two or three years.

Books, in any case, are not what they used to be. I bought Roberto Bolano's 2666 earlier this year in hardback: it's just a paperback with a hard casing; the pages are not sewn but just glued into one huge bundle. What you need to remember is that an object of pleasure to you and me is just a commodity to a publisher and even more so to a printer. If they can produce them cheaper, they will.

I have to confess that trying to imagine what the intellectual property situation, with respect to the creative arts, is going to be like in 50 years' time makes my brain hurt. I just cannot see how the interests of artists, writers, musicians and so forth is going to be protected given the attitudes of the software intermediaries - publishers, music companies, etc. They are simply not getting the point that until everyone agrees that it's just as unfair to listen to music or read a book without rewarding the person primarily responsible for creating it is no different to eating an ice-cream or wearing a high-fashion coat without paying for them. A tradesman is worth his pay and so is an artist.

I think one of the problems is that publishers and the music business have never bothered that much about 'the talent' in the first place, so it's difficult for them to shift their perspective now that it's the end user who is bilking the artist rather than the production company.

Thought experiment: if somehow music piracy only affected musician's income without reducing music company profits, how hard would the companies be trying to stop piracy?

[jeanie]

I've got hundreds of books, and will probably buy hundreds more in my lifetime! :D
:yeah: there's something very satisfying looking at your bookshelf and seeing you have all of your favourite authors book... and they have the original cover design...

I have hundreds of books & the thought of being able to have an ebook does appeal but you can't beat cracking open that first page of a very anticiapted book hitting the (paperback) shelves.

[David Franklin]

:yeah: there's something very satisfying looking at your bookshelf and seeing you have all of your favourite authors book... and they have the original cover design...Good luck with that if they're a long running author. Cover artists change more often than authors - the first 20 or so Dick Francis novels have a very different design from the more recent ones. Similarly for Pratchett, Kellerman, Connelly.


I have hundreds of books & the thought of being able to have an ebook does appeal but you can't beat cracking open that first page of a very anticiapted book hitting the (paperback) shelves.I have over a thousand books, and I'm running out of places for bookshelves. Ebooks would help that particular conundrum.

(On the other hand, I'm an avowed technophile, we have 6 computers in the house, and I still prefer reading 'real' books by a large margin. If the Sony e-reader was 10x faster, had 4x the resolution, was a 10th the price, and waterproof, I might change my mind).

[jeanie]

Good luck with that if they're a long running author. Cover artists change more often than authors - the first 20 or so Dick Francis novels have a very different design from the more recent ones. Similarly for Pratchett, Kellerman, Connelly.
Yep they are long running authors. As soon as a James Patterson book hits the shelf I buy it, I prefer the original covers the updated ones are to modern.


I have over a thousand books, and I'm running out of places for bookshelves. Ebooks would help that particular conundrum.

(On the other hand, I'm an avowed technophile, we have 6 computers in the house, and I still prefer reading 'real' books by a large margin. If the Sony e-reader was 10x faster, had 4x the resolution, was a 10th the price, and waterproof, I might change my mind).
I can see the advatanges but I'm working on getting a wall size bookshelf as the majority of my books are in boxes :(

[Barry Shnikov]

If the Sony e-reader was 10x faster, had 4x the resolution, was a 10th the price, and waterproof, I might change my mind).
Here in 2011. Betcha.

Well...maybe not the waterproof bit - but then books aren't trifficly waterproof, are they?

[jeanie]

Here in 2011. Betcha.

Well...maybe not the waterproof bit - but then books aren't trifficly waterproof, are they?
No, but then you can dry them out in the oven & get rippled pages ;)

[Barry Shnikov]

No, but then you can dry them out in the oven & get rippled pages ;)
...or set fire to the kitchen...

[jeanie]

...or set fire to the kitchen...
:rofl:I always let a responsible adult dry my books ;)

[Jay Jay]

I got an ebook for my birthday.

I am very impressed with it, it came with 100 classics already on it, which I intend to get through and probably would never of otherwise read. I have visited Waterstones and purchased a couple of 'my sort of books', downloaded them and I must say I didn't think it would be as good as it is.

It is not like reading on a computer which I thought it might be and it is still cosy to sit in bed to read.

I'm loving it.

[straycat]

(On the other hand, I'm an avowed technophile, we have 6 computers in the house, and I still prefer reading 'real' books by a large margin. If the Sony e-reader was 10x faster, had 4x the resolution, was a 10th the price, and waterproof, I might change my mind).

Heh. I used to use a Tapwave Zodiac as an e-book reader (great little devices, even by today's standards) - and to my complete dismay, one day I managed to drop it in the bath. And, surprise surprise, it promptly stopped working. 'Oops'***, sez I, and got out my backup Zodiac & set it up.

To my amazement though, around three days later, once it had completely dried out, I tried the 'ruined' one again, and it worked perfectly!

***My exact wording was slightly different, but I prefer not to receive an infraction for this post :whistle:

[Clueless]

I very rarely browse a book shop. I try and find if the book is out (or call to shop to see if they have it) then I pop in get it.

I have never used e-books but the probablitity of scratching the screen would make me paranoid about taking it anywhere.

[Jay Jay]

I have never used e-books but the probablitity of scratching the screen would make me paranoid about taking it anywhere.

Mine is in a leather cover so it is protected, on the other hand I was thinking how ideal it would be for holidays, which it would, but don't know about protection next to a swimming pool or on a beach.

Thinking of holidays, beach bags have come a long way from just having a towel, lotion and a book...mine now would have my E-Reader, my Ipod, my mobile amongst other things. It would certainly make me think twice about leaving it around whilst I have a swim :eyebrow:

[Astro]

The only true elimination of technology in years just past has been DVD/ Freeview killing off Video, and even then the vocabulary lingers on! I think the previous death to technology was the telegram!


Don't forget cassettes. I've still got some.


I have over a thousand books, and I'm running out of places for bookshelves. Ebooks would help that particular conundrum.

I use the Library.
There's this newish thing now. You can reserve any book, and it will arrive in your local library from other libraries.


I very rarely browse a book shop.
Me neither, because I will always come out with a book.
I can go into show shops and clothes shops and leave empty handed. What is it with books? So tempting.

[Barry Shnikov]

I got an ebook for my birthday.

I am very impressed with it, it came with 100 classics already on it, which I intend to get through and probably would never of otherwise read. I have visited Waterstones and purchased a couple of 'my sort of books', downloaded them and I must say I didn't think it would be as good as it is.

It is not like reading on a computer which I thought it might be and it is still cosy to sit in bed to read.

I'm loving it.
That wasn't 'an e-book'. It was 'an e-book reader'. The 100 classics were 'the e-books'.

Just FYI.

[Beowulf]

and when the militant far right get in power it'll make book burning so much easier for them..

Ctrl - A
Delete

:wink:

I like paper books and e-books but prefer paper I'm afraid to say.

Mind you if we ever do get to the dystopian society as portrayed in Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451" a portable e-book reader in your pocket will be so much easier than memorising the complete works of Shakespeare :wink:

[Jay Jay]

That wasn't 'an e-book'. It was 'an e-book reader'. The 100 classics were 'the e-books'.

Just FYI.

Picky picky, you know what I meant....but yes you're right. I was just a little excited was all :wink:

[whitetiger1518]

:yeah: there's something very satisfying looking at your bookshelf and seeing you have all of your favourite authors book... and they have the original cover design...

I have hundreds of books & the thought of being able to have an ebook does appeal but you can't beat cracking open that first page of a very anticiapted book hitting the (paperback) shelves.

Mmmm nothing quite like the smell of bookshops (old or new) - two completely different smells, though both with a therapeutic and calming effect on me (apart from my bank balance!) :)



I very rarely browse a book shop. I try and find if the book is out (or call to shop to see if they have it) then I pop in get it.

I have never used e-books but the probablitity of scratching the screen would make me paranoid about taking it anywhere.

You poor deprived soul :confused: Why wouldn't you want to browse in bookshops - so many worlds to discover! I can lose myself for weeeks in a good library or bookshop..


and when the militant far right get in power it'll make book burning so much easier for them..

Ctrl - A
Delete

:wink:

I like paper books and e-books but prefer paper I'm afraid to say.

Mind you if we ever do get to the dystopian society as portrayed in Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451" a portable e-book reader in your pocket will be so much easier than memorising the complete works of Shakespeare :wink:


Paper books all the way - I use computers all day, and often want to curl up in an alternative reality on paper when I get home - I have even done a couple of courses in bookbinding, so I can sew my own notebooks now.... (I'm still very much a beginner)

WT

[Clueless]

You poor deprived soul :confused: Why wouldn't you want to browse in bookshops - so many worlds to discover! I can lose myself for weeeks in a good library or bookshop..


Maybe I am too much of a guy, I dont really browse much, most of the time I'm in and then out.

[jeanie]

Mmmm nothing quite like the smell of bookshops (old or new) - two completely different smells, though both with a therapeutic and calming effect on me (apart from my bank balance!) :)
:yeah: with the bank balance... Everytime I go into tesco I see a new book I've been waiting for.... I have a few old 'classics for children' books & I love the old paper they're printed on.


Paper books all the way - I use computers all day, and often want to curl up in an alternative reality on paper when I get home - I have even done a couple of courses in bookbinding, so I can sew my own notebooks now.... (I'm still very much a beginner)

WT
Now that would be fab, binding you're own notebooks (being a notebook addict.... :o)