Strolls - love 'em or hate 'em?

[Gav]

In the past I've seen people doing strolls and had mixed feelings.
It looks like line-dancing (sorry, but it does) and at the same time looks better than line-dancing. It's done to great swing music. To an outsider it looks a bit cliquey and difficult.

Since taking an interest in Swing I've been changing my attitude towards it.
A few years ago on a swing weekender I was encouraged to join in, but I didn't. I thought you have to know it to do it, they might not welcome a non-stroller and I'll look a pr4t.
Anyway, years later I start "proper" Lindy classes and find that not doing the strolls isn't an option. In the previous classes, they don't even teach them, you're expected to dive in and get on with it.
Much to my surprise, I found I could! For about 3 or 4 'rotations' I floundered around, but then I got the hang of it. They're not that difficult because the steps repeat over and over again.

In the latest lessons, they actually teach strolls and I find myself thinking "can't we just get on with it" :lol: how things change!

[Gojive]

I can take or leave participating in them, but I do like watching.

At Fleet, we used to (they may still) have 2 or 3 strolls when the lights went up at the end of the night. I would always stay back to watch, because I loved both the music, and how some people were really putting their all in to it.

They were clearly having a great deal of fun - and someone having fun on the dance floor in any dance, is fun for me to watch :waycool:

A few years back, we were taught a "tribute to the great teachers" stroll at Beach Boogie. I've never forgotten the David and Lilly tribute - we had to stand still, raise our right hand with index finger pointing to the ceiling, and spin an imaginary tiny lady on it with the other hand (a bit like a plate spinner) :rofl:

[David Bailey]

They're the work of the Devil.

[straycat]

They're the work of the Devil.

Still grumpy then? :hug:

[David Bailey]

Still grumpy then? :hug:
Not much more than usual - this is my normal default state :na:

OK, to expand on my point, I really don't get why synchronised dancing has any place in the partner-dancing community.

Salsa classes always do silly warmup / cooldown stuff as well, but at least they're doing salsa steps, so there's some benefit there. What's the point of the stroll?

If you want to do synchronised dancing, go to a line-dancing class.

[StokeBloke]

They're the work of the Devil.
Nahhh... they're worse than that David :devil::devil:

[Dance Demon]

Strolls are very much part of the Swing dance scene. They are also a big part of the Rock&Roll scene, but very much a girls thing. If you go to an event on either of these scenes, expect strolls to make up a percentage of the night. I don't really know of anyone that teaches strolls at Modern Jive nights, but anyone who does will probably find it more popular with the ladies than the gents.

[dave the scaffolder]

Stone me have you 2 kissed and made up then?

I used to like the Utopia stroll, don't seem to do it anymore tho. I like em do I, bit of harmless fun really. Mind you I seem to be in a good mood for some reason today, still the day aint over yet, things could change.

DTS XXX XXX

[straycat]

OK, to expand on my point, I really don't get why synchronised dancing has any place in the partner-dancing community.

For a long long time, I would have agreed with you - but if I'm going to be completely honest with myself, that's chiefly because I always felt silly and self-conscious doing them (particular emphasis on the Madison on that score)

But people on the whole seem to love them. On the occasions when I've DJ'd at Edinburgh Lindy events - if I put on a track like Lunceford's It Ain't What You Do, the floor instantly fills with people doing the Shim Sham. First stroll I learned was Nina's Guaglione stroll way back when at Beach Boogie, and that was extremely popular at the time. I remember being at some fairly large MJ weekender a few years back when they did the Cha Cha slide :eek: and virtually everyone joined in.

And, of course, there's one of the real benefits to strolls that we touched on in the other thread - that the good ones teach skills that are extremely useful while social dancing.

[Moondancer]

In the past I've seen people doing strolls and had mixed feelings.
It looks like line-dancing (sorry, but it does) and at the same time looks better than line-dancing.


(jumps on soap box) Erm, can I just take polite issue with that? It's perfectly possible that I have the wrong impression here, but aren't strolls just fairly basic repeated patterns?

If strolls looks better than linedancing then is it that you have only ever seen beginner level linedancing (maybe 32 counts, basic repeated pattern, no arms, no difficult steps, Eurocr*p stompy-stompy music)? This can look pretty uncool to behold (I'm not knocking it, can still be fun, we all have to start somewhere etc etc.) BUT...

...My point is that I don't think I would define linedancing by seeing that sort of stuff, any more than I would define MJ by looking at people struggling in a beginner MJ class. One of the things that gives linedancing a bad name is that people only see beginner level stuff and think it's all like that.

[Gerry]

(jumps on soap box) Erm, can I just take polite issue with that? It's perfectly possible that I have the wrong impression here, but aren't strolls just fairly basic repeated patterns?

If strolls looks better than linedancing then is it that you have only ever seen beginner level linedancing (maybe 32 counts, basic repeated pattern, no arms, no difficult steps, Eurocr*p stompy-stompy music)? This can look pretty uncool to behold (I'm not knocking it, can still be fun, we all have to start somewhere etc etc.) BUT...

...My point is that I don't think I would define linedancing by seeing that sort of stuff, any more than I would define MJ by looking at people struggling in a beginner MJ class. One of the things that gives linedancing a bad name is that people only see beginner level stuff and think it's all like that.

I learn't some linedancing at a private doo, later I watched four X / Current world line champions and it was Jaw dropping. They were all doing a small amount of the basic steps and then they were doing their thang but they all hit the major highlights :yeah:

[Gav]

(jumps on soap box) Erm, can I just take polite issue with that?
No, you can't :na: (kidding).


It's perfectly possible that I have the wrong impression here, but aren't strolls just fairly basic repeated patterns?

Yes, if you've only ever seen beginner level strolls


If strolls looks better than linedancing then is it that you have only ever seen beginner level linedancing

:eyebrow: :whistle:


...My point is that I don't think I would define linedancing by seeing that sort of stuff, any more than I would define MJ by looking at people struggling in a beginner MJ class. One of the things that gives linedancing a bad name is that people only see beginner level stuff and think it's all like that.

Fair enough I guess. I've only ever seen line-dancing in Canada and it was the awful music, sh1t-kicking, thumbs tucked into trousers & the bigger your belt is, the more of a man you are attitude that put me off a little, but I'm willing to accept that there's a better way. :D

[Moondancer]

Fair enough I guess. I've only ever seen line-dancing in Canada and it was the awful music, sh1t-kicking, thumbs tucked into trousers & the bigger your belt is, the more of a man you are attitude that put me off a little, but I'm willing to accept that there's a better way. :D

Have a look at these. :flower:They are linedances, danced as per the dance script. I hope they might give people an idea beyond 'yee ha slap my thigh' which sounds like what Gav, and many other people, think linedancing is.

The links I've posted are of dances being danced well - there isn't much point giving examples of linedances being danced badly, is there? Obviously, not everyone is going to dance them quite to this standard (me included)! :D

Unfortunately, there is a lot of ropey linedancing on youtube. Some of it is the old-fashioned yee ha stuff (which still goes down a storm in some parts). A lot of the more modern stuff on youtube is either people stepping through the scripts (videoed for people to learn the steps) or footage taken of the first time a dance is danced through straight after a teach (as a memory aid) when everyone is looking confused and going wrong. This doesn't necessarily give a realistic view of how dances are normally done once people have learnt them properly! There are also just plain awful examples with glaring mistakes, and footage by people who just want to be on youtube :sick:

Hope you enjoy:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PNQADCGVhl4 (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PNQADCGVhl4) (Speechless)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mocZ9DqDeuY (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mocZ9DqDeuY) (NC 17)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lzQi91PO1n4&feature=related (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lzQi91PO1n4&feature=related) (Bam A Lam)


P.S. I would have liked to have given links to footage of dances we learned this weekend in Stoke, where everyone featured in these videos taught their latest dances, but it's too early for them to be on youtube yet.

[straycat]

Have a look at these. :flower:They are linedances, danced as per the dance script. I hope they might give people an idea beyond 'yee ha slap my thigh' which sounds like what Gav, and many other people, think linedancing is.

The links I've posted are of dances being danced well - there isn't much point giving examples of linedances being danced badly, is there? Obviously, not everyone is going to dance them quite to this standard (me included)!

Thanks for posting those. Some lovely dancing there, and you're right - they go a long way towards blowing those stereotypes out of the water :D

The one question that these links raise for me, more than anything else, is simply: what does define a line-dance these days? Are those examples intended to be danced by a group, or does it even matter if they're done purely solo? Are there any restrictions on what constitutes a line-dance?

On a slightly different note, I think it's worth remembering that in the days of Strictly Dance Fever, a lot of the better and more versatile dancers, and the ones who did well, were line dancers.

[Moondancer]

The one question that these links raise for me, more than anything else, is simply: what does define a line-dance these days? Are those examples intended to be danced by a group, or does it even matter if they're done purely solo? Are there any restrictions on what constitutes a line-dance?

Sorry, this is a really long post!! :blush::flower:

Linedances are danced socially, not individually. Good choreographers will keep a hold on how much a dance travels to make it feasible to dance it without losing half the dancers out of the door. Those dances in the links are social dances, but the dancers on the vids are using the space they have; a social floor is more restricting.

For competition, dancers would dance two walls of their competition dance ‘vanilla’ (i.e. as written) then do variations, but the variations must keep to the line of dance. So you could look at a competition floor and they would be doing the same dance, but it would look different.

Socially, you would see the same dance done by everyone (unless there was a floor split) but some dancers will put in their own variations as and when they feel like it, not to a competition extent though, because it’s liable to put everyone else off! Usually, if you are dancing near people you know are struggling to remember the dance, it’s polite not to put in variations when they can see you or if they are obviously following you. The basic timing, direction and floor covered should always stay the same whatever you do (or you get trodden on). You still need floorcraft, of course, because different people move different amounts, and if you lose the plot mid-dance you could cause a collision!

What is a linedance? Ah….can of worms. The answer is that it depends who you talk to:

The newliner view would be that if you dance it by yourself, it’s a linedance (though there are partner dances, couple and contra dances too!) regardless of style of music or dancing. Newline dances could include arm work, floor work, anything you can think of that is danced individually. The point of starting in a line before you start dancing is to roughly apportion out the dancing space for each individual, so as each one keeps the line of dance, you shouldn’t run out of room, no matter how the dance is written. There’s otherwise nothing magical about the ‘line’ part.

Mainliners, who comprise the majority of linedancers, give various definitions. Usually when they see a dance they can’t do, or don’t like the music to, then they say “That’s not linedancing!” The people newliners would lump together as mainliners can’t even agree on a definition amongst themselves. Some think that only country music and thumbs in belts count. The average majority of mainliners will now accept as normal dances to a variety of music from pop, irish, latin or soft rock but won’t do rap, hip hop or r ‘n’ b (and would be upset if the lyrics got dodgy) and won’t do arms, or too much in the way of body rolls or anything involving the body below the waist (especially any rude bits!)

Mainliners can’t do and often won’t try newline, but newliners can and frequently do dance mainline as well (and there are crossover dances). The vast majority of beg/inter dances are mainline, the majority of newline dances are not appealing to mainliners because they are too hard. A mainline ‘advanced’ dance (as labelled in a mainline publication) is not what a newliner would call advanced. Newliners tend to be younger, fitter, more interested in technique and style, more interested in dancing later into the night/morning, and are less judgemental. If a particular dance doesn’t float their boat or they struggle with a particular style, hey, there’ll be another good one along in a minute. This is probably because there is so much more variety in newline than mainline. Mainline music and dances are more homogenous, so they are used to expecting everything to fit a majority taste.

So you see, the ‘what is linedancing’ question really is quite a big deal, and can make mixed socials or events a little difficult. Here’s an example:

I’m about to go off to the Linedancer Magazine Crystal Boots Awards, which is an annual international event. The vast majority there will be mainliners, as is the magazine readership. Last year saw the usual mainline/newline experience – most of the dances played were mainline, too easy and too boring for the newliners to want to bother even just getting up and learning as they went along. Maybe one in twenty tracks was borderline newline. When one of these was played, mainliners had to sit down and listen to a track they didn’t recognise, didn’t like, and were complaining that they didn’t like it, and the newliners were ‘showing off’ (newliners using arms is the usual cause of this comment!) The newliners sat down after dancing their one track, the mainliners heaved a sigh of relief and headed back to the floor. You can imagine that towards the end of the night, the newliners were itching for the mainliners to go to bed, knowing that once mainliner numbers reduced and the newliners started to match the numbers of mainliners there was more chance of good tracks, and if they all went to bed – wa hey, party time! That’s the usual pattern at mixed events – when the mainliners go to bed, the newliners start dancing.

Unfortunately and unusually, the mainliners were still going strong after 1pm-ish. Newliners were getting increasingly muttersome until word went round that so-and-so had their laptop in a hotel corridor and there was an impromptu invitation-only dance party, which for us was the best dancing of the night!




On a slightly different note, I think it's worth remembering that in the days of Strictly Dance Fever, a lot of the better and more versatile dancers, and the ones who did well, were line dancers.

Competition linedancers would have to learn technique appropriate for whatever style their competition dances were, so that would give a pretty good grounding in a very wide variety of dances.

[Dreadful Scathe]

The style of the runners up of the first series of Strictly Dance Fever was "line dance" apparantly. Which certainly changed my perception of it :)

[straycat]

(jumps on soap box) Erm, can I just take polite issue with that? It's perfectly possible that I have the wrong impression here, but aren't strolls just fairly basic repeated patterns?

On this front though, no - they're not all quite as simple as that suggests.

The Shim Sham does repeat, true, but only once, and the second time through is a little different. Jitterbug Stroll repeats once, and the Madison does not repeat, iirc - although the Shim Sham and the JS do each contain a set break, which is used periodically throughout to separate the sections (and, with the JS, to rotate everyone round by 90 degrees)

[StokeBloke]

OK - this may or may not make sense. As is the way when people try to put words to feelings. But, here goes... what I love most about dancing is it gives me a chance to express my love of music. Music is something I have adored all of my life. Growing up in a family that had ten children and three bedrooms was... a pretty intense and noisy experience. From as far back as I can remember I used to sit for hours and hours in as quiet a spot as I could find (quarter landing near the top of the staircase) and listen to music to escape. In bed it was Radio Luxembourg (with its drifting signal). I can't play any instruments, and my 'singing' voice is flatter than a flat thing that's been steamrollered. Dance gave me a chance to finally interact with something that I was passionate about. When I hear music now it sort of rolls right through me and I get lost in the dance I am sharing. Magical.

Why in the name of all that is holy would I want to take the time to learn how to move through an entire track using someone else's ideas, movements and expressions? I did try to learn a stroll once. I found it exceptionally boring and utterly mind numbing. Sort of a physical equivalent to learning your times tables at school. I cannot for the life of me understand the attraction - please can someone enlighten me (yes, I am asking in all seriousness).

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that they are good or bad. They're just.... not for me :flower:

[Gav]

Why in the name of all that is holy would I want to take the time to learn how to move through an entire track using someone else's ideas, movements and expressions? I did try to learn a stroll once. I found it exceptionally boring and utterly mind numbing.

OK, so you learned the moves at Ceroc (and others). Is that what you do now? Just go through the moves?
Of course you don't, you use those moves as a base to dance.
Same with strolls. There's a difference between learning the strolls and doing it with a little style, interpretation and flair.
So you still have to do the same steps and turn in the same direction, but there's a lot more you can do.
I've seen some people doing strolls that are with everyone else but they look amazing.
But if you don't like it, that's your prerogative.

[Minnie M]

Strolls are very much part of the Swing dance scene. They are also a big part of the Rock&Roll scene, but very much a girls thing. If you go to an event on either of these scenes, expect strolls to make up a percentage of the night. I don't really know of anyone that teaches strolls at Modern Jive nights, but anyone who does will probably find it more popular with the ladies than the gents.

Funny enough only in Rock 'n Roll, that is definitely a girly thing and boppin' for the fellas, however, on the modern lindy scene (down south that is - can't comment on the scene up north) - there seems to be equal numbers

Modern Jive strolls ??? What about The Madison or Tail Feather ???? Would you call them "Strollers"

[ducasi]

Line dancing can be really cool, and I'll take part in the odd fun line dance class – especially if it's taught by James Mclauchlan.

Strolls, while being much the same idea, are less fun, less funny, lesser music, and less entertaining to watch.

[straycat]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that they are good or bad. They're just.... not for me :flower:

Oh come on... half the mileage we all get from the forum is based on getting people wrong. Spoil our fun, why don't you? :whistle:


Why in the name of all that is holy would I want to take the time to learn how to move through an entire track using someone else's ideas, movements and expressions? I did try to learn a stroll once. I found it exceptionally boring and utterly mind numbing. Sort of a physical equivalent to learning your times tables at school. I cannot for the life of me understand the attraction - please can someone enlighten me (yes, I am asking in all seriousness).

What stroll did you learn?

I'm not going to try and convince you that strolls really are for you ;)
Although, as Gav says, in a stroll, you're not just trying to imitate someone doing steps - I agree that that isn't so much fun. We generally do that at the beginning, when learning, but the aim is to learn to dance the stroll. That's where the fun lies - when the steps are second nature, and you can put in your own styling, and express it your way. And it's also the point when you start taking things from the stroll and throwing them into that great big melting pot that you draw on for your normal dancing...

[Gav]

Line dancing can be really cool, and I'll take part in the odd fun line dance class – especially if it's taught by James Mclauchlan.

Strolls, while being much the same idea, are less fun, less funny, lesser music, and less entertaining to watch.

I can imagine that for someone short of imagination, musicality and style it probably would be less fun, less funny and lesser music. :na:

Or maybe it's just a matter of personal preference, maybe even as simple as liking the music?

[Moondancer]

Can anyone tell me where to look on the net for a script of one of these strolls, or guide me to find one on youtube, please? I'm curious.

[Dreadful Scathe]

I remember a few years ago Dance Demon TAUGHT The Madison at a Modern Jive event and he has been known to do "late night swing" too...forgetful isn't he :) I think strolls are great if you know there is a majority there who will either love doing or love watching it.

Also, further to what Gav and StrayPuss said - yes strolls are most fun when you know them well enough to really dance them and introduce some of your own flair. Personally I enjoy it more when there is lots of style but the shapes are identical, then it feels, and looks, like a proper team effort and is a real shared experience.

Not that Im particularly good at strolls - my body positioning options ranging between stiff and very stiff :)

[Dreadful Scathe]

Line dancing can be really cool, and I'll take part in the odd fun line dance class – especially if it's taught by James Mclauchlan.

Strolls, while being much the same idea, are less fun, less funny, lesser music, and less entertaining to watch.

I would totally disagree and suggest you've not seen a good stroll done well :)

[Gav]

Can anyone tell me where to look on the net for a script of one of these strolls, or guide me to find one on youtube, please? I'm curious.

I can't really do a proper search at the mo, but try this one for starters. For any Swing fans out there, this is the Shim Sham as led by the Queen of Swing, Norma Miller (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=K_KBdYh3mGw).

[Moondancer]

I can't really do a proper search at the mo, but try this one for starters. For any Swing fans out there, this is the Shim Sham as led by the Queen of Swing, Norma Miller (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=K_KBdYh3mGw).

Thanks, that’s interesting. I can see that the dancers are putting some of their own styling in and they don’t look like beginners, but I’m guessing the stroll is beginner level - simple steps, very repetitive, nothing complicated, no rotations. That level of step simplicity in linedancing would be done by beginners and would probably look terrible! On the clip it’s being done nicely by the dancers, but I would have thought they were capable of doing something rather more complex than that. It looks like it’s probably quite fun because the music was nice, but give me a decent linedance any day!

Any chance of a link to an advanced stroll, please?:flower:

[Moondancer]

Dance gave me a chance to finally interact with something that I was passionate about. When I hear music now it sort of rolls right through me and I get lost in the dance I am sharing. Magical.

:yeah:


Why in the name of all that is holy would I want to take the time to learn how to move through an entire track using someone else's ideas, movements and expressions? I did try to learn a stroll once. I found it exceptionally boring and utterly mind numbing. Sort of a physical equivalent to learning your times tables at school. I cannot for the life of me understand the attraction - please can someone enlighten me (yes, I am asking in all seriousness).


I can't answer about strolls, but I guess you wouldn't see the point of linedancing either, and I CAN answer that!

I can understand that as an MJ leader you do have a lot of freedom to lead what you want, so you can use your musicality etc, so I suppose that in comparison something with set choreography would seem very restricting. However, from the point of view of being an MJ follower, I don’t have all those choices:

As an MJ follower, I basically have to do what I am led to do (give or take a minor sabotage or mistake here or there), whatever I think of the suitability of the moves to music. I dance if I’m asked, given the general etiquette, even if I don’t particularly like the track, and even if I would rather not dance with that leader. I won’t necessarily know the music very well and need to wait and see if the leader will hit accents and breaks appropriately; he may or may not allow me to. I may be led into interesting variations and accents I haven’t thought of, but it’s far more likely that I will be restricted to dancing what my lead wants me to dance. It will annoy me to start in the wrong place in the music, or to dance on the wrong part of the beat! Any optional dance variations on my part will generally be few and far between and will boil down to an invitation to get myself from A to B in some way or to wiggle on the spot, or an attempt to do anything myself may be met with negativity, rudeness or just blocked. I don’t know if it’s just the level of dancing I’m at, but I can’t just take off on one if I feel like it, and I usually have one of my hands held at the time anyway, which somewhat restricts what I can do! (Not that I would necessarily know what to do if I was let off the leash!) In MJ sometimes I come off the floor thinking that I wasted that track because I danced it with the wrong person. Other times I come off thinking that I didn’t know I could dance that well!

As a linedancer, I listen to the track coming up, and I can choose whether or not to dance it. I can choose exactly where on the floor I want to dance, and I’ll have some choice over who will be close by me to have a chat and a laugh with as I dance. I don’t need to negotiate with a partner about any of these things. That’s the same whatever sort of linedancing I’m doing.

Depending on how well I know the dance and who I’m dancing with I may choose to add different variations and styling to hit different points in the music, move to different places on the floor during the dance, do it contra, do it backwards or mirror image. In a familiar linedance, I know the music well enough to know which points of the music I want to accent, and know to the precise beat where bridges and restarts are coming, and it can feel very satisfying to hit those with appropriate moves. If I decide to alter steps or body movements they might be things I’ve done before which worked, or an idea might occur to me, or I might see someone else add something and like it and want to copy it. The better I get, the more options I have. (I would do a lot less if I were dancing with beginners or in a mainline setting, but in a newline setting adding style and variation is seen as a positive thing). The top dancers will put in the most amazing variations. Each person brings their own ability, styling and musicality to the dance so no two dances are the same; even when I dance the same dance a week later, it won’t necessarily come out the same.

Contrary to what some people think, linedancing is (or can be!) sociable and interactive, so you just don’t get the same dance by putting on a track and dancing by yourself, or with four other people. In MJ I know that I dance far better with some people and far worse with others. Some leads will make me feel good about myself, whilst others will leave me feeling quite negative. By myself on a linedance floor the only thing preventing me from complete brilliance and enjoyment is myself! If I want to, I can lose myself completely in the dancing or I can socialise all night.

I just had a look at the published playlist of where I was dancing newline a couple of weeks ago. 123 different tracks/linedances were played that night, which covered a far greater range of musical styles and tempo than MJ ever could. I don’t know how many choreographers that represents, but it’s quite a few, all using a broad range of step patterns, arm and body movements etc. Choreographers (newline ones anyway!) are constantly trying to come up with unique combinations or unusual moves, invented or taken from absolutely any dance genre. ‘Same old same old’ doesn’t cut it in newline. Furthermore, if it's, say, a cha cha track then the linedance will be cha cha steps with cha cha timing i.e. the choreography will fit the music. In MJ I'll be dancing MJ to cha cha, which doesn't feel half as nice! The likelihood is that I will recognise most of the MJ moves which are led, and I will repeat them over and over again during the course of an evening, with minor variations with different leads, all to music which will be within a fairly limited range of style and speed.

So although I can see why on the face of it, there is far greater freedom within MJ than there is in linedancing, I don’t think that is quite the whole story, and certainly isn't the case for an MJ follower. I’ve just started to learn to lead, and feel I have no freedom whatsoever because I’m so rubbish at it, and as for my poor follower:lol: heaven help her/him! I can see that when I have reached a certain level of competence my freedom to use the music will increase, but already I have realised that there will still be restrictions because the required lead for any move will have to be couched in a format my follower can comprehend, I will still only be dancing MJ-able moves and music, and whatever I do has to take into account the abilities and response of my partner, plus obvious physical issues (height, weight, sex etc). I don’t see how complete freedom to dance can ever work in a negotiated partner dance, but clearly using set choreography within an individual dance doesn’t equate to complete freedom either. In my personal opinion, it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other.

…can I just say that I absolutely love both MJ and newline? :awe:

[Jivejunkie]

On the Rock and Roll scene, which Genevieve and myself frequent now, it is expected that there is at least two sessions of Strolling, of about three records each. If there isn't the DJ (or CDJ, whatever) will be lucky to get out alive.
Call it Line dancing and YOU will be lucky to get out alive!

The latest and most popular incarnation is the 'Charleston Stroll' to 'White Cliffs of Dover' by the Jive Aces. (Charleston Stroll is incidently about 60 years old so was around about 40 years before line dancing)

Its almost exclusively for the ladies (although you do get a few ifeminate men now!:whistle:) and it's great to see about 15 to 20 women all in their full-circle Rock n Roll skirts doing it in unison.

Genevieve and her daughter love it and it's done great things for her confidence (her daughter I mean not Genevieve who's doesn't need anymore boost!:whistle:)

Just for Stokie - you'll never guess where one of the biggest line dancing clubs in Staffordshire is......well you will if any Bidds regulars get in to your dance!)

[Gav]

Its almost exclusively for the ladies (although you do get a few ifeminate men now!:whistle:) and it's great to see about 15 to 20 women all in their full-circle Rock n Roll skirts doing it in unison.

I've never been called that before! :rolleyes: Are they illiterate too? :na:

[Double Trouble]

I've never been called that before! :rolleyes: Are they illiterate too? :na:

:lol: Don't worry gorgeous, you're the least effeminate man I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. :awe:

[Jivejunkie]

I've never been called that before! :rolleyes: Are they illiterate too? :na:

Sorry about that! I'm sure you're not.

Its just that it used to be on the rock and roll scene that the strolls were for the girls and the bopping was for the guys and never the twain shall meet, but in the last few years nothing is exclusive and I'm sure the girls who bop, are as butch as the guys who stroll are effeminate now - if you know what I mean :doh: hastily trying to redeem myself - anyone got a shovel so I can get out of this hole!!!:blush:

Genevieve is actually trying to get me to learn to stroll now so we can do doubles - now that is good to look at!

[fletch]

Sorry about that! I'm sure you're not.

Its just that it used to be on the rock and roll scene that the strolls were for the girls and the bopping was for the guys and never the twain shall meet, but in the last few years nothing is exclusive and I'm sure the girls who bop, are as butch as the guys who stroll are effeminate now - if you know what I mean :doh: hastily trying to redeem myself - anyone got a shovel so I can get out of this hole!!!:blush:

Genevieve is actually trying to get me to learn to stroll now so we can do doubles - now that is good to look at!

she a good teacher we practised at Daventry I love it but i'm not to good, but its fun :clap: