WCS-type move...has anyone done this move, and if so, any pointers?

[Terpsichorea]

Hiya

My dance partner and I are currently trying to teach ourselves the move at 1:40 in this video http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-fXulOk14D4

I've seen it done by a few other WCS couples, always as a travelling move, but we can't quite seem to nail the travelling part and also can't make it look particuarly smooth...any pointers?

[robd]

I think you mean what I would call a travelling barrel roll (or 'she goes, he goes').

TBH I have only ever seen this done well by the very top pro's. I try it myself quite often but never really manage it to my own satisfaction so god only knows what it looks like to an onlooker.

I don't know how well it would fit MJ timing but I would say that in whatever style you're dancing it needs good frame on the part of both partners and I think the critical element is keeping the relative positions of both partners constant. Sounds easy but is anything but. The man turns after the lady, not simultaneously. Stand up straight (don't compromise your posture) and try to ensure the follow is travelling straight down her slot - I find I often do not move myself off the slot sufficiently and it makes the follow start to travel diagonally. But, you know, this is all coming from someone who can't actually do the pattern all that well so whether you should trust it is up to you.....

[CJ]

FWIW, I (think I) have seen Simon and Nicole pull this off: might be worth speaking to them re a private??

[Terpsichorea]

I think you mean what I would call a travelling barrel roll (or 'she goes, he goes').

TBH I have only ever seen this done well by the very top pro's. I try it myself quite often but never really manage it to my own satisfaction so god only knows what it looks like to an onlooker.

I don't know how well it would fit MJ timing but I would say that in whatever style you're dancing it needs good frame on the part of both partners and I think the critical element is keeping the relative positions of both partners constant. Sounds easy but is anything but. The man turns after the lady, not simultaneously. Stand up straight (don't compromise your posture) and try to ensure the follow is travelling straight down her slot - I find I often do not move myself off the slot sufficiently and it makes the follow start to travel diagonally. But, you know, this is all coming from someone who can't actually do the pattern all that well so whether you should trust it is up to you.....

Cheers! I've seen it done v well in a few YT videos and done live by Peter & Amy, and it does seem to be very difficult to get right. I find that after about four turns and trying to travel in a straight line, I get disoriented and the move gets messy...thanks for the pointers, I'll give them a go. :respect:

[DavidB]

A few things spring to mind.

With any travelling turn, you lead the travel before leading the turn. If you do it the other way, you will probably pull the lady over. You should then keep the travelling motion constant, ie not accelerating or decelerating. When you want to end the move, you finish the turn before finishing the travel.

Instead of chasing after the lady, go at her side. It is then easier to keep the travelling constant. You also reduce the risk of stepping on her feet.

It also helps if you both practice travelling turns by yourselves to get the footwork sorted out.

You can easily do this move in MJ. We have taught a version of this move for quite a while, where the man turns at half the speed of the lady, but changes hands for every turn of the lady. This helps stop the man getting dizzy, and the hand changes keep it looking interesting.

[Terpsichorea]

A few things spring to mind.

With any travelling turn, you lead the travel before leading the turn. If you do it the other way, you will probably pull the lady over. You should then keep the travelling motion constant, ie not accelerating or decelerating. When you want to end the move, you finish the turn before finishing the travel.

Instead of chasing after the lady, go at her side. It is then easier to keep the travelling constant. You also reduce the risk of stepping on her feet.

It also helps if you both practice travelling turns by yourselves to get the footwork sorted out.

You can easily do this move in MJ. We have taught a version of this move for quite a while, where the man turns at half the speed of the lady, but changes hands for every turn of the lady. This helps stop the man getting dizzy, and the hand changes keep it looking interesting.

Interesting...any clips online of this variation? *adds* Just found this clip of Peter & Amy doing it at 1:30, looks very smooth http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5DoYlvtlS_o

[NZ Monkey]

I was taught the barrel turns in a routine taught by J&T – and I have to confess it’s a bugbear of mine. I still can’t lead it well or make it look good more than a year later.

The important points from how they taught it were to take small steps (especially from the follower – it’s very easy to get ahead of the leader which makes the turns much more difficult) and the timing, which is a little hard to describe. Essentially the guy turns the girl, but rather than turning at the same speed as she is the guy has to look where she’s coming around and accelerate from being slightly behind her for the turn to ahead of her again so he can co-ordinate the next turn.

Leading the turns is a challenge in itself. They way they taught it was from a Palm-to-palm hold (Like a handshake hold, but LH-RH rather than RH-RH) and they maintained that grip through the whole move. The hand had to held just above the tallest persons head, and the turns were lead by a rotation of the wrist. My partner tells me it was quite convincing when Jordan did it with her, but I don’t think anyone else in the room got it. It’s probably worth noting that I’ve seen all the pros (including J&T!) do that move by dropping their hands over their shoulders at various points, so I don’t think we were getting the full story on that particular technique.

Edit: For those interested the routine was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3guaVIEAvY. I'm second from the left in the back row but the camera angle makes it hard to see me for much of the routine. Thankfully :na:

[rubyred]

I am sure that Graham Le Clerc did a move that he called 'the hat' which was like this, the difference being that he did it in a line down the dance floor, and not in circular movement. If it's the same one I have done this move with a previous dance partner ,and with people from the south coast. Will show you what I remember of it next time we meet.:flower:

[Terpsichorea]

I am sure that Graham Le Clerc did a move that he called 'the hat' which was like this, the difference being that he did it in a line down the dance floor, and not in circular movement. If it's the same one I have done this move with a previous dance partner ,and with people from the south coast. Will show you what I remember of it next time we meet.:flower:

Cheers Rosie! I think I've seen it demonstrated on one of his dvds...'the hat' rings a bell! See you for a dance soon!

[Gadget]

I would build up to it; lead travelling turns first so you can dictate/know the speed your partner travels and the speed they turn at, then it's about timing it right:

If the lead turns at the same time as the follow, then they have to be able to lead while turning - that's difficult when keeping the hands above heads. I would practice 'windmill' barrel rolls (arms always opposite each other) until they are smooth and controlled, then bring the hands together and try the same movement.

If the lead alternates the turning so that they start turning half-way through the follower's turn, then the lead only needs to lead the start, move faster than the follower's turn speed, and finish to catch them as they come out of the turn. I would start with this 'turn-turn' sequence, then do turn-turn;turn-turn, then build up the number, then do it while travelling, then try and smooth out the blips between sets of turns.

{Personally, I find that any more than two and my orientation drifts a bit. I'm also no where near as tidy or fast as these peeps - it's not something I do often because it works better when both partners know what's happening... and my lead isn't up to that with most followers. Practice with one partner and you both should be able to get the timing & movement right without over-exerting.}

[Geordieed]

It is not the easiest of social patterns to execute. As most moves it is all about the woman and not the guy in making it work. First of all lead the torque with the energy (not power) for enough turns and then prep. Make sure the follower is fully committed to her left foot before committing to your turn. Direction and speed is your responsibility. The rest is down to her. To build it up over time see if the energy is lost after one turn then finish off the pattern. If not then do two and so on.

If you watch Micheal you can see how much he is focused on his partner as an indication of what is required by him and when he can make his turn. Breaking it down see where he finishes every time and makes sure that his partner is okay before you can complete his turn.

You will find that because you are leading and know what is coming up your turns will feel quicker than your partner. As for the hand hold the guy makes the compromises and keep a constant wide halo for her not himself. And without good frame from the lady the turns will break down anyhow.

I have used this pattern on a social floor. There is a lot of technique to make it work. The test is once you perfect it with your partner is to execute it with someone else effortlessly. Send me a PM if you have any more questions. Due to length of response I have had to skim through the process...

[Terpsichorea]

It is not the easiest of social patterns to execute. As most moves it is all about the woman and not the guy in making it work. First of all lead the torque with the energy (not power) for enough turns and then prep. Make sure the follower is fully committed to her left foot before committing to your turn. Direction and speed is your responsibility. The rest is down to her. To build it up over time see if the energy is lost after one turn then finish off the pattern. If not then do two and so on.

If you watch Micheal you can see how much he is focused on his partner as an indication of what is required by him and when he can make his turn. Breaking it down see where he finishes every time and makes sure that his partner is okay before you can complete his turn.

You will find that because you are leading and know what is coming up your turns will feel quicker than your partner. As for the hand hold the guy makes the compromises and keep a constant wide halo for her not himself. And without good frame from the lady the turns will break down anyhow.

I have used this pattern on a social floor. There is a lot of technique to make it work. The test is once you perfect it with your partner is to execute it with someone else effortlessly. Send me a PM if you have any more questions. Due to length of response I have had to skim through the process...

When I try to perform this with my partner, it definitely feels that I am turning faster than her, I guess that's the side effect of leading the move rather than following it. This probably isn't something I plan on doing on a social floor, but it's a move I'd like to be able to do in competitions.

[Geordieed]

It will be easier in a routine because you can help each other out to make it work. Still let the lady dictate a great deal of it though. Socially is a lot more difficult but like anything practise is the key. Working together I am sure you will make it work so good luck with that to you both.

One of the criteria of the WCS routines we see is that most of the patterns should be leadable on a social floor. I know a lot sometimes is not but that is the guidence the judges provide...

[Andy McGregor]

I learn this move as the IGoYouGo or was it the YouGoIGo? It's a really easy move to do once and I've never thought to do it more than that - after all, we do a social dance and that move is in a show dance - of course, it's great if you're putting on a show.

[Terpsichorea]

It will be easier in a routine because you can help each other out to make it work. Still let the lady dictate a great deal of it though. Socially is a lot more difficult but like anything practise is the key. Working together I am sure you will make it work so good luck with that to you both.

One of the criteria of the WCS routines we see is that most of the patterns should be leadable on a social floor. I know a lot sometimes is not but that is the guidence the judges provide...

We had a crack at it last night, and I think the move has been messing up for two reasons - 1) I wasn't spotting properly when turning, and b) we were trying too do the move waaaaaaaay too fast too soon.