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Paul F
5th-November-2003, 01:26 AM
Just returned from a night in Nantwich. Had some good dances and it was a pretty good night but on the way home i got thinking (scary for me :sorry )

What are guys there for.

A person once told me that the job of the man is to make the lady look good.

I forget who said that but I do believe it to some extent. I also believe that the scope is there for the man to add his own spins/style/footwork etc.

I was looking through my favourite moves (sad it may be!) and i noticed that there are a lot of moves that i use were i spin or attempt to do something stylish which usually fails.

I was wondering if anyone agrees with this idea that the man is there just to make the lady look good. IF SO how??

Ok, a broad question it may be but what can a guy do to make the lady look good.
I use simple things like the travelling R hand return with a block then double spinning the lady fast which is good but are there particular moves - do these moves exist ??

I guess i have to add that the lady who is dancing would have to be of a good standard however you classify that, as beginners are just learning the moves.

Do any ladies have moves they wish the guys would do :confused:

ChrisA
5th-November-2003, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by Paul F
What are guys there for?

A person once told me that the job of the man is to make the lady look good.
This is only part of the truth. The job of the guy is to make the lady feel good. This will often make her look good, but the two are not the same.

There is no such thing as a particular move which will achieve what you want to achieve.

As with life, abandon all such formulaic approaches. Learn instead to connect with your partner.

Chris.

bigdjiver
5th-November-2003, 03:05 AM
I once heard it described as the man is the frame and the lady is the picture. That is only one way to dance.

IMO it is a transaction with your partner at the time. Often I am dancing to teach, sometimes to impress partner, occasionally to impress spectators with her, rarely to impress spectators as a partnership. 95% of the time I am trying to help partner enjoy herself, the other 5% I am in selfish mode, trying out new moves or ideas. If we are lucky partner enjoys that too.

A subject for a multi-option poll?

ChrisA
5th-November-2003, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by Paul F
I guess i have to add that the lady who is dancing would have to be of a good standard however you classify that, as beginners are just learning the moves.

Maybe it would be helpful to think about what is really important on the dance floor. Moves aren't - at least not in isolation.

A beginner girl needs to feel good on the dance floor at least as much, often more so, than a girl that's been dancing for years. Care is required, but it's just as achievable.

What is "good"? You have to answer that for yourself. The answer can be very different, depending on the circumstances.

Chris

Lory
5th-November-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by ChrisA
The job of the guy is to make the lady feel good.
Chris.

I couldn't agree more! but then I would, wouldn't I! :yum:

Jon L
5th-November-2003, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by bigdjiver
I once heard it described as the man is the frame and the lady is the picture. That is only one way to dance.



I agree with that and a corollary to this would be that the frame has to be solid to avoid the picture falling out :grin:

What I mean by this is that the mans signals must be clear, When I first started dancing it took me a while to learn this that we have a harder job on our hands.

Dreadful Scathe
5th-November-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Paul F

A person once told me that the job of the man is to make the lady look good.


That may well be true sometimes for some people but you're trying to analyze purpose where there may not be any - sometimes people just dance!

Andy McGregor
5th-November-2003, 11:01 AM
Of course, we're only talking about dancing here othewise my humble answer would be 'nothing':devil:

In my mind there are no men or women in dancing. There are leaders and followers.

The whole thing is a relationship. It's not an equal one, but there also isn't a superior or inferior position. You both have a job to do. And those jobs are different, but the objective is the same. And, when social dancing, that is to enjoy yourself and provide enjoyment or pleasure to your partner, leader or follower.

You get that pleasure differently in different situations. When you're leading a beginner they get pleasure from getting moves right and having a feeling of making progress and you are rewarded by their gratitude and the pleasure of helping people improve. When you lead an experienced dancer you're enjoying the togetherness, the musicality, etc.

When you're following you're enjoying getting it right, possibly learning new stuff. You're enjoying the music, the relationship, etc.

I think that ONLY when you're being watched, and judged in some way, do you need to worry about who's looking good - and then it needs to be both of you. The leader needs to give the follower the opportunity to look good but they've got to look good too. The follower isn't just a puppet operated by a barely seen puppeteer in all black with a black mask doing moves against a black screen so only the follower can be seen. They're out there too and they need to look good. And, IMHO, to do that you really do need to GLITTER:devil:

This theory could explain the all black look. They've heard the 'job of the man is to make the lady look good' line and slavishly believed it. And in choosing to do so some men have demoted consideration of their own look to 2nd place. They seem to think they need to just make the follower look good while they remain an anonymous and barely noticed black garbed clone in the background:devil:

Get out there and sparkle guys, put some rips in those black shirts and show off your 6-packs, wear colourful clothes and have your own identity!

But, whatever you do, please don't upstage me:tears:

Rachel
5th-November-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I think that ONLY when you're being watched, and judged in some way, do you need to worry about who's looking good - and then it needs to be both of you. The leader needs to give the follower the opportunity to look good but they've got to look good too. The follower isn't just a puppet operated by a barely seen puppeteer in all black with a black mask doing moves against a black screen so only the follower can be seen. They're out there too and they need to look good. And, IMHO, to do that you really do need to GLITTER:devil: ... Accepted! Competition/dancing for show is very different. And that's the last I'll say about the glitter issue, before I get lynched...

I enjoyed reading that post - it was funny!
Rachel

ChrisA
5th-November-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
(The leaders are) out there too and they need to look good. And, IMHO, to do that you really do need to GLITTER:devil:

This theory could explain the all black look. They've heard the 'job of the man is to make the lady look good' line and slavishly believed it. And in choosing to do so some men have demoted consideration of their own look to 2nd place. They seem to think they need to just make the follower look good while they remain an anonymous and barely noticed black garbed clone in the background:devil:

I dance with a lot of girls, excuse me, followers, that go for the black look, and they usually look terrific. Dead sexy, look great when they move, and feel nice close up, cos the material is usually smooth.

I can see them fine, too. Even from the other side of a relatively dark dance floor. But I am very fortunate still to have good eyesight. Maybe my views will change as I get older... :devil:

Chris

Pammy
5th-November-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Paul F
Do any ladies have moves they wish the guys would do :confused:

Everyone has their *favourite* selection, but for me there are moves I wish a guy WOULDN'T do that are more important to me. I like a man who is fun and quite passionate on the floor; a cheeky eye-to-eye contact is important.

You are good at surprising; by that I mean, a lot of men I can predict what is coming, whereas with you I can't, but it still flows well regardless.

I think a man's job on the floor is to look sexy/manly; kind of chest-out, stand-like-a-man-look-good look-bold etc. That's what I like to see anyway. That way he makes his partner look good as you look good together, people want to look like you etc.

Px

Boomer
5th-November-2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Rachel
... And that's the last I'll say about the glitter issue, before I get lynched...

I enjoyed reading that post - it was funny!
Rachel

Not even 1 sequin? Tried my shirt on for the first time at home last night :what: Before I knew I was chatting myself up :blush: Still got turned down :sad:

:nice:

Pammy
5th-November-2003, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Boomer
Tried my shirt on for the first time at home last night :what:

Yes, because it's not out of character for you to be caught sitting shirtless of an evening :wink:

Forte
5th-November-2003, 12:02 PM
What is a man for? Hmm...
He is there to:
sort the car for winter (check oil, antifreeze, tyres)
:kiss the back of your neck
: lift heavy objects
: rub your feet:
:pick you up from a girlie night out and make sure you don't get too ill in the middle of the night thereafter
:take along to occassions that need a "partner" so you don't come across as Bridget Jones sad singleton
: Buy you flowers
: send you emails and texts calling you "sweatpea" "Princess" or "gorgeous"
: hug you after a bad day at work
: to tell you he likes you with curves and to stop dieting



Oh, sorry...did I miss the point of this thread?:wink:

bigdjiver
5th-November-2003, 12:24 PM
Buying the drinks?

Pammy
5th-November-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Forte
Oh, sorry...did I miss the point of this thread?:wink:

No, don't think so :wink:

1) To tell you your dinner tastes nice, even when it doesn't
2) To eat all the chocolates in the tin that you don't like
and leave the ones you do :wink:
3) To get the car into the small parking space :blush:
4) To hold hands with on a cold day
5) To squeeze up to when the scarey bit comes in the film
6) To go check what *the noise* was you heard in the night
7) To hide behind when you get shy
8) To tell all your inner most secrets to
9) To regret telling all your inner most secrets to!

Graham
5th-November-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by Pammy
1) To tell you your dinner tastes nice, even when it doesn't I've often tried this, but it doesn't seem to work - Wendy still comes up with her own opinion on what I've cooked. Am I doing something wrong? :wink:

Originally posted by Pammy
2) To eat all the chocolates in the tin that you don't like and leave the ones you do :wink: :confused: No, you've lost me there completely :confused: :wink:

Paul F
5th-November-2003, 01:40 PM
How about -

To know how a your feeling even when you dont tell him !!

:mad: grrrr!!

:D


On the point of the thread i just wondered if there is anything i can do to accentuate the gracefulness of the lady.

Could it be that i just have to give the lady room to 'style' or whatever it is called?

Pammy
5th-November-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Paul F
a) To know how a your feeling even when you dont tell him !!

b) On the point of the thread i just wondered if there is anything i can do to accentuate the gracefulness of the lady.

a) What you mean is to know when you're annoyed and why you're annoyed when we say we're not annoyed!

and b) don't know, haven't danced with you for sooooo long :tears:

Forte
5th-November-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Graham
. Am I doing something wrong? :wink:
:

Silly! You are a man so the answer to that is always yes! :rolleyes:

unless you arer dancing with me..because that is something you do very well...:hug: Thank you!

Tazmanian Devil
5th-November-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Pammy
No, don't think so

1) To tell you your dinner tastes nice, even when it doesn't
2) To eat all the chocolates in the tin that you don't like
and leave the ones you do
3) To get the car into the small parking space
4) To hold hands with on a cold day
5) To squeeze up to when the scarey bit comes in the film
6) To go check what *the noise* was you heard in the night
7) To hide behind when you get shy
8) To tell all your inner most secrets to
9) To regret telling all your inner most secrets to!


:rofl: :rofl: Nice one pammy but lets not forget
10) to lead a fantastic dance :kiss: :hug:




Just feel the music and dance the night away :kiss: :hug:

Forte
5th-November-2003, 01:55 PM
Go on then, Guys...start a thread "what are women for?" Pammy and I will wait to be educated...:rofl:

Andy McGregor
5th-November-2003, 01:59 PM
Here is the next item in Ms Pamster Dory's list

11. To give you someone to hear you saying 'If you don't know what's wrong I'm not going to waste my time telling you'.

Boomer
5th-November-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Forte
Go on then, Guys...start a thread "what are women for?" Pammy and I will wait to be educated...:rofl:

31 years, man and boy I've been trying to answer that, soon as I know I'll tell you :grin:

Tazmanian Devil
5th-November-2003, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Here is the next item in Ms Pamster Dory's list

11. To give you someone to hear you saying 'If you don't know what's wrong I'm not going to waste my time telling you'.


That sounds about right, I thought men were mind readers (they always seem to tell you what your thinking after all!!:devil: )





Just feel the music and dance the night away :kiss: :hug:

DavidB
5th-November-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Paul F
A person once told me that the job of the man is to make the lady look good. I've said that in the past, and I still believe it. It can mean making her look good in her own eyes, or her friends' eyes, or to all the spectators who are watching.

The man has far more freedom in the dance. He gets to decide what moves to do, the order in which to do them, how much or little to use the music, how much style to put into his dancing, how much freedom to give the lady etc. He has plenty of ways of looking good by doing these things well.

The lady has far less freedom. She gets to follow with a bit of style. Everything else she gets to do is dependent on the man letting her.

So when he gives the lady a chance to do something, whether it be spins, improvisations, body action, using the hips etc, he should not try to attract attention to himself. (But if the lady doesn't like this freedom, then the man is not making her look good in her own eyes by constantly trying.)

You don't have to do this all the time. Some things look good when both the man and the lady do the same thing. But if you watch a couple, and all you see is the man doing his stuff all the time, then it looks a very unbalanced partnership.

The best thing for me is that if I let the lady do more work in the dance, I get the credit for being a good partner. Less really is more!

David

Martin
5th-November-2003, 03:07 PM
Well I recon ChrisA is an insiteful man...

"The job of the guy is to make the lady feel good. "

A sign of a truely advanced dancer is that the lady did not feel out of her depth.

"Well he is a great dancer but I could not keep up" - read - he is a show-off and has not got a clue.

A truely advanced male dancer will always make the lady "feel good" whatever standard she is.

It is the mans job to guage this within the first 2 moves and then gently increase the level of dificulty and be prepared to hold back to a comfortable level, maybe with 1 or 2 moves that "pushes the boundries".

Now; shows, showcases, teams and performance, that is a different matter, no good the guy standing still while the girl struts her stuff alone...

Marty

Lory
5th-November-2003, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Martin
Well I recon ChrisA is an insiteful man...

"The job of the guy is to make the lady feel good. "

A sign of a truely advanced dancer is that the lady did not feel out of her depth.

"Well he is a great dancer but I could not keep up" - read - he is a show-off and has not got a clue.

A truely advanced male dancer will always make the lady "feel good" whatever standard she is.

It is the mans job to guage this within the first 2 moves and then gently increase the level of dificulty and be prepared to hold back to a comfortable level, maybe with 1 or 2 moves that "pushes the boundries".

Marty THIS MAN IS A HERO! SPOT ON!!!! :cheers: :kiss: :drool: :yum:

Andy McGregor
5th-November-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Martin
It is the mans job to guage this within the first 2 moves and then gently increase the level of difficulty and be prepared to hold back to a comfortable level, maybe with 1 or 2 moves that "pushes the boundries".


I do this. Just once I've had a woman fix me with a look and say, smiling (thankfully), 'You're testing me'. I've been more circumspect since then:wink:

Martin
5th-November-2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I do this. Just once I've had a woman fix me with a look and say, smiling (thankfully), 'You're testing me'. I've been more circumspect since then:wink:

Obviously if you have danced with her before or if she is a "regular" = no worries (getting the Aussie lingo slowly)
Otherwise, yes, you so need to do the "dance test"
Saves 15 man break-throughs with a dancer that knows her stuff...

Marty

Gadget
5th-November-2003, 03:45 PM
I agree that the whole point of dancing is to have fun.
But the man can take on several different roles within the dance to make the lady look/feel good:
- Flatterer; paying attention to her and appreciating her movements.
- Entertainer; showing off for her benefit, amusing and surprising her.
- Interpreter; translating the music into movemets and actions.
- Window dresser; Setting up the frame and putting her in the spotlight.
- Friend; Eye contact, smiling and feeling comfortable with each other.

Of course, when dancing for spectators to should look even more of a partner dance and lead/followers should dance as a couple; movements and style should complement each other so that you don't think or see moves as being done by the man or the lady, but being done by the couple as one. {When dancing for each other (without spectators or judges), my aim is for it to feel like this, not necissaraly look like it}


IMHO :D

Jon L
5th-November-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Forte
Go on then, Guys...start a thread "what are women for?" Pammy and I will wait to be educated...:rofl:

No chance! ;) I have too many women I get dances from and want it to stay that way

Jon L
5th-November-2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Tazmanian Devil
That sounds about right, I thought men were mind readers (they always seem to tell you what your thinking after all!!:devil: )





Just feel the music and dance the night away :kiss: :hug:


That's where half of the problems between Men and Women occur, they talk different languauges! Read"Men and from Mars Women are from Venus" by John Gray for an explanation - I am not even going to attempt go into detail

Martin
5th-November-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Jon L
That's where half of the problems between Men and Women occur, they talk different languauges! Read"Men and from Mars Women are from Venus" by John Gray for an explanation - I am not even going to attempt go into detail

**** that men and women thing
Just respect your woman and treat her right
The only time men lead is on the dance floor after all....

Marty

Martin
5th-November-2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Martin
**** that men and women thing
Just respect your woman and treat her right
The only time men lead is on the dance floor after all....

Marty

Hey just realised on this forum you cannot say f**k

M:sorry :cheers:

ChrisA
5th-November-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Martin
Hey just realised on this forum you cannot say f**k

M:sorry :cheers:
Course you can say f**k.

Jon L
5th-November-2003, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Martin

Just respect your woman and treat her right
The only time men lead is on the dance floor after all....

Marty


Couldn't agree with you more there.

Tazmanian Devil
5th-November-2003, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Martin
**** that men and women thing
Just respect your woman and treat her right
The only time men lead is on the dance floor after all....

That sounds about right to me!!:wink: Although a women should also respect her man, it goes both ways:kiss:








Just feel the music and dance the night away :kiss: :hug:

Martin
5th-November-2003, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA
Course you can say f**k.

Hey Chris,

Can’t argue with you , you are cool, love your perspective…

Marty

thewacko
5th-November-2003, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Tazmanian Devil
That sounds about right to me!!:wink: Although a women should also respect her man, it goes both ways:kiss:


Unfortunately some women can't remember wether they are dancing as men or women and so they automatically go into the lead role.:devil:

:devil: :devil: Luckily I can enjoy that bit too:wink: :wink: :hug:

thewacko
5th-November-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA
Course you can say f**k.

of course you do mean F L A K

cos I get flak nearly every time i post owt on this forum:devil: :cheers:

Tazmanian Devil
5th-November-2003, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by thewacko
Unfortunately some women can't remember wether they are dancing as men or women and so they automatically go into the lead role.

MMmm does that include me hunny? or should I say Was that aimed at me hunny? :confused:





Just feel the music and dance the night away :kiss: :hug:

Tazmanian Devil
5th-November-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by thewacko
of course you do mean F L A K
cos I get flak nearly every time i post owt on this forum

You poor soul :rofl: :rofl:


Just noticed am not a junior member any more im a MEMBER!! :cheers: Woohoo








Just feel the music and dance the night away :kiss: :hug:

thewacko
5th-November-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Tazmanian Devil
MMmm does that include me hunny? or should I say Was that aimed at me hunny? :confused:



:sorry oooh I wouldn't even think it:rofl: :rofl:

thewacko
5th-November-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Tazmanian Devil
Just noticed am not a junior member any more im a MEMBER!! :cheers: Woohoo



and may I be the first to say what a luvverly member you have, I mean you are:waycool:

Sheepman
6th-November-2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Forte
: Buy you flowers If a man brings flowers home for no reason . . .

There's a reason. :what:

Greg

Sheepman
6th-November-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Martin
It is the mans job to guage this within the first 2 moves Sometimes it doesn't take anything like that long, so who was it I danced with just recently, I think for the first time, it was clear just in that first step back that this was going to be great, and it was.

Must dance less and remember more :tears:

Chris has got it in one, make your partner feel good. :cheers:

Greg

thewacko
6th-November-2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
I agree that the whole point of dancing is to have fun.
But the man can take on several different roles within the dance to make the lady look/feel good:
- Flatterer; paying attention to her and appreciating her movements.

waycool: HEY this I can do :D



- Entertainer; showing off for her benefit, amusing and surprising her.[/QUOTE]

(:confused: just her benefit?)



- - Interpreter; translating the music into movemets and actions..[/QUOTE]

(:devil: not to mention translate what she is thinking you are doing!)



- Window dresser; Setting up the frame and putting her in the spotlight. .[/QUOTE]

(oooh sounds good)



- Friend; Eye contact, smiling and feeling comfortable with each other..[/QUOTE]

( :D :D :D hey cool dude)

Gadget
7th-November-2003, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by thewacko
- Entertainer; showing off for her benefit, amusing and surprising her.
(:confused: just her benefit?)
I'm only dancing with her... who else matters?

Missed out a role:
- Minder; anticipating and protecting her from dangers on the dance floor.