Black and white or lurex

[Lounge Lizard]

Black and white shoes, bright shirts etc.
why not, where does it say anyone has to be a certain standard to wear these clothes - to me it is a statement that they really love the dancing and feel good about themselves so dress accordingly, but this is from someone who wears a 'scarf' (well bandana actually, but more people call it a scarf)

You are right Andy there is another thread here.
p

[Lounge Lizard]

Following on from another thread re black and white shoes worn by dancers - should anyone be a certain level of dancer before they wear these shoes.
Do dancers make a statement on what they wear.
Does Nigel look cool or fool
what is the worst and best dance outfit.

I remember dancing with a lady in Scotland (Lindsay's dance) and the lady had an amazing skirt (or dress) that flared out and looked fantastic when she was spinning.

Are there reasons for what you wear.
I (like a lot of men) sweat a lot an at large venues such as Camber was forever running back to my bag for a towel.
on one occasion I left the baseball cap on, sweating problem was overcome.
Unfortunately on close moves there was a tendency to but the lady with the peak of the cap.
so I tried the bandana.
Trousers with tassels are they great? would you wear them
basically anything clothes - so I expect at least two full pages from Andy :wink:
Peter

[Boomer]

What is the story with ‘Black and Whites’? Was talking to someone recently, and she said that at some point I’ll have to get a pair of ‘proper’ dancing shoes:confused: I currently make use of my standard shoe-boot things, nice won sole that allows the perfect degree of slip with a hint of resistance and give my ankles some support as well:waycool: . What’s so good about dance shoes, and why black and white? I can only assume that B&W’s are some kind of ‘peacock’ display, but is there some other, Masonic, meaning to them?

Nothing special about my wardrobe though, but I have started to wear tighter undies for protection, beent caught in the nether regions a few times and its not pleasant :tears: I not kidding :tears: :tears:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Boomer
I can only assume that B&W’s are some kind of ‘peacock’ display, but is there some other, Masonic, meaning to them?

With the undies you wear I think you're already going for full peacock effect without the need for shoes :wink:


beent caught in the nether regions a few times and its not pleasant :tears: I not kidding :tears: :tears:

And you wonder why you get accused of soinspecing?? :what: :wink: It's all so clear mutters it's all so very clear... :blush:

Oh, and I'll be soinspecing you tonight when you grince, just you wait and see :wink: :cheers:

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Black and white shoes, bright shirts etc.
why not, where does it say anyone has to be a certain standard to wear these clothes - to me it is a statement that they really love the dancing and feel good about themselves so dress accordingly...

I’ll agree with you on this. I really have no idea as to whether or not there is some kind of ‘code’ that implies you can only wear B&Ws, or anything else for that matter, once you reach a certain level or standard. I am aware though, and have been from class 1, that there is a tacit understanding/awareness that B&Ws are worn by people who are at a certain level (I’m in no way alluding to ‘Hotshots’ or stating any other form of character judgement). Personally, were I to take a fancy to B&Ws I’d have no problem wearing them, as LL said, it is, or should be, about enjoying yourself and expressing something at the same time, but are newbies in B&Ws generally frowned upon?

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Does Nigel look cool or fool

I think Nigel looks cool. But if I (or indeed almost anyone else) wore that I'd look a fool.

Viktor looks cool in B&Ws, but IMHO almost everyone else, er doesn't.

Andy Fleming carries off wearing his outrageous outfits brilliantly - but he has a personality to match. He looks cool dancing in a dressing gown, for heavens sake.

Sure we make a statement by what we wear. But if we wear something that doesn't match what we are, the statement is "I'm a muppet."

Chris

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Boomer
What is the story with ‘Black and Whites’? Was talking to someone recently, and she said that at some point I’ll have to get a pair of ‘proper’ dancing shoes If you dance a lot, then a pair of dance shoes might be a good investment. The main reason for me is that they have less grip than normal shoes, and so put less pressure on my knees when I spin. The ones I wear have a suede sole, which gives a nice compromise between some grip and the ability to spin. You can get a similar effect with leather-soled shoes.

Another reason for having a different pair of shoes just for dancing is that you get less sand/grit etc brought onto the floor. This extends the life of the varnish on the floor. (Some ballroom dance studios won't let you dance in outdoor shoes.)

You can also get the dance sneakers that a lot of people wear. These can be a lot more comfortable, especially if you dance all day at an event like Camber. They tend to give more grip than the suede soled shoes, but it is still acceptable. They don't look as smart as regular dance shoes - this might be a problem for some people, and not for others.


Black & White shoes are just shoes made with a combination of black and white leather. They are very popular with Lindy dancers, as I believe they look like the style of shoes worn in the '20s and '30s.

Back in the late '80s and early '90s, many of the better Modern Jive dancers started doing Lindy, and quite a few bought these Black & White shoes. They still danced Jive as well, and the shoes became associated with some of the better dancers. Gradually they became fashionable amongst a lot of dancers. I can remember people saying that you needed to be a particular standard to wear them. I can also remember one lady saying they were comfortable, and she didn't care how good or bad she was. The second statement is true. The first is bulls**t.

Take any particular type of shoe - ballroom, dance sneakers, trainers, regular shoes - and you will see both good and bad dancers wearing them. The only difference with Black and Whites is that you notice them.

Bandanas on the other hand are for poseurs only! :devil:

David

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by DavidB
Bandanas on the other hand are for poseurs only! :devil:
David
Yeah, but that's cos they're supposed to be worn on the head...

Chris :waycool:

[Bill]

Originally posted by ChrisA
I think Nigel looks cool. But if I (or indeed almost anyone else) wore that I'd look a fool.

Viktor looks cool in B&Ws, but IMHO almost everyone else, er doesn't.

But if we wear something that doesn't match what we are, the statement is "I'm a muppet."

Chris

Agree with all of this Chris.

Nigel looks terrific in his outfits and carries it off spectaularly well.

Viktor would probably look great in anything and generally people can wear whatever and as long as they are confident they will carry it off.

I toyed with the idea a few years ago of joining the B&W brigade when at Beach Boogie but felt that it really was the preserve of the really good dancers so never did buy a pair.

I have a few pairs I now wear and for comps or special nights wil lwear something a little brighter - I usually wear black :rolleyes:

As for those combat type trousers with tassels............I owuldn't wear them - they aren't really me but they do suit many dancers. They do seem to be rather dated already though and a lot of my students were wearing them before summer but not seen any so far this term.

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Bill
Agree with all of this Chris.
Most kind.

My particular fave shoes are the split sole "trainer" types.

Considering that they were on my feet continuously (apart from the showers :) ) during three six-hour freestyles over the weekend, as well as all the classes at Rock Bottoms, with no blisters or soreness anywhere, I reckon you just can't beat em.

Chris

[Gadget]

I find that it dosn't matter how scruffy you are, whether you wear jeans or high waisted, pressed trousers, whether you have a nice shirt or faded t-shirt, your apperance is determined by your shoes: wear scruffy or dirty shoes and you appear scruffy, wear polished or spotless shoes and you appear smart.

But perhaps i's just an internal sense of confidence that changes?

Personally I go to 'class' nights wearing jeans (or combats) and a dark T-shirt {I would say 'black', but I think that they passed that stage a few washes ago :blush:}
The reason for this is that I want to actually 'dress-up' for any parties I go to: If I wear my nice shirts and trousers for class nights, then what can I wear to parties to make an impact? :confused: {and I don't fancy dancing with a hat on - too hot! :wink:}

[Lounge Lizard]

Originally posted by DavidB
Bandanas on the other hand are for poseurs only! :devil:

David this from the man that stands in the middle of the dance floor holding his partner in the air one handed:wink:

[Andy McGregor]

Firstly, I would like to report the behaviour of Mr Lizard to Franck. This Forum is no place for reasonable statements like the one made at the start of this thread. Next thing you know, they'll be letting in grown-ups.

Now to the meat of the argument. Clothes - I love them. I've got a huge arsenal of dance clothes but nothing to wear on any given night. I've even got some very old well used B&Ws that have circular scratches only on the left sole because years ago when I wore them I could only spin anti-clockwise. :blush:

I agree that dance clothes are multi-purpose. They need to be comfortable and cool. But more importantly I think they need to look right. When considering the look there is the implicit assumption that you want to be looked at. If you don't want to be looked at you can simply dress for comfort - this is not me. I've been known to dance in tails until I melt just because I think I look great in them:waycool:

As a self-confessed clothes horse I have done a lot of watching and have given the subject a great deal of thought so I've got a few things to say about the specific clothes worn by male dancers.

1. Black and white shoes show off your footwork. If you don't move your feet much or aren't very good at footwork it really shows in B&W shoes so steer clear of them. QED, B&W shoes are for people that are good at foowork. In other words, Lindy-Hoppers and a few good modern jivers on nights when there's room to move around the floor a bit.

2. Dance shoes are essential if you want to move your feet, spin and slide etc. If you don't move your feet much outside shoes or even trainers are fine. In my experience dance trainers make your feet hot and smelly - but they are comfy. I've got a pair of perforated leather dance shoes with a suede sole that are my favourites. The only problem with suede is that it picks up the wax from dance floors. This needs cleaning off with a suede brush or even scrubbing with Fairy Liquid and a nail brush and rinsing with fresh water to get the nice suede surface back to normal. A tip I was given recently was to take my dance shoes out of the bag when I get home to give them a chance to breathe.

3. High waisted trousers make your legs look longer and show off the lines of your poses and moves.

4. Trousers with dangly bits are for young people and make older guys look silly - although girls of all ages look good in them.

5. Braces give a vertical stripe that shows off your spins and turns - imagine a spinning top painted one colour, you can't easily tell how fast it's spinning, a top with vertical stripes works much better. If you don't spin or turn much the braces are probably not worth the trouble.

6. Hats show off the direction you're looking. If you don't look at your partner or have an awareness of 'looking' at something to create a line they do nothing except make your head hot and your hair flat (assuming you've got some).

7. Scarfs/bandanas/headbands worn by pirates, lizards and 70s tennis players - if you aren't one don't do it, you'll look silly.

8. Glittery shirts show off your moves/movement, distract people from looking and your face and make you irresistable to women:wink:

9. Fancy dress. This borrows the identity of the person or type of person you're dressed as. People know what to expect and you have to dance in the character of the person you're dressed as. It's quite hard work to keep up for long and requires huge amounts of observation to get right. But certain outfits like my 'Officer and a Gentleman' make you irrisistable to women (& some guys!):devil:

10. Women's clothing. It's too late for me but please don't start, you won't be able to stop. I know it's tempting because girls have all the clothes, shoes, hair, make-up and curves - but we just can't compete:tears:

One thing I've noticed is that some clothes look good on tall people, or fatties, or short people, etc. I look at what other people are wearing and think how I would look in those clothes. Sometimes I get it wrong. But I'm blessed with friends who will tell me:wink: Some people obviously aren't so lucky:devil:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
8. Glittery shirts show off your moves/movement, distract people from looking and your face and make you irresistable to women:wink:

Yes Yes, That must be right, Yes, Yes :confused: :what:

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
8. Glittery shirts show off your moves/movement

First, let me say that I found this essay genuinely interesting. I'd just pick up this point, though...

For comps, absolutely - there's an audience to impress, and you want them to look at you rather than someone else.

For social dancing I am dancing 100% for my partner and no one else. She's right there next to me, knows all about my moves and movement as UCP as it gets (well almost :wink: )

If she's happy with that then I am - I don't need no glittery shirt.

Though I must confess that I have one shirt (plain black tee in style), made of a smooth and silky material that some of the girls seem to just have to stroke :blush: :blush: to find out if it feels like it looks (which it does ). ... I quite like that, but it lasts only about three dances before I have to change out of it. :tears: :tears:

Chris

[spindr]

Originally posted by DavidB

Bandanas on the other hand are for poseurs only! :devil:

David

I must admit to being getting confused with certain (male) dancers trying to look piratical in headscarves, etc. -- but I'm sure it must be a special kind of pirate that wears chiffon?

Neil.
[Hmmm, sailcloth, surely?]

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by ChrisA
First, let me say that I found this essay genuinely interesting. I'd just pick up this point, though...

For comps, absolutely - there's an audience to impress, and you want them to look at you rather than someone else.

For social dancing I am dancing 100% for my partner and no one else. She's right there next to me, knows all about my moves and movement as UCP as it gets (well almost :wink: )

If she's happy with that then I am - I don't need no glittery shirt.
Chris

I think I said as much at the start of my posting. Something about dressing for comfort if you don't want to be looked at.


Originally posted by ChrisA
Though I must confess that I have one shirt (plain black tee in style), made of a smooth and silky material that some of the girls seem to just have to stroke to find out if it feels like it looks (which it does ). ... I quite like that, but it lasts only about three dances before I have to change out of it.

And now we're talking about dressing for your partners pleasure. I find a mask helps:tears:

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I think I said as much at the start of my posting. Something about dressing for comfort if you don't want to be looked at.

So you did. Beg pardon.

Chris

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor

8. Glittery shirts show off your moves/movement, distract people from looking and your face and make you irresistable to women:wink:


Cor :really:

Thanks for the replies, some answers and a bit of history - very productive :cheers:

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
My original premise was that I wanted my dancing to speak for itself rather than my clothes communicating that I think I'm great - you know the look, black and white shoes, braces, high waisted trousers, hat, etc. (possibly pyjama bottoms - but that's for other people, not me).

Andy, this is an extreme coincidence, or you've been watching videos of me again!

I tend to make an effort only for competitions or special occasions. (NO, I bet you never guessed!), and in those cases, you are trying to get people to look at you. Otherwise comfort is much more important to me than looks. One thing about the B&Ws, there was a time, not so long ago, where the "only" dance shoes you could get were the B&Ws, or Astaire's, other ballroom styles, and maybe jazz shoes with rubber soles, no trainers at all. So my excuse is that my B&Ws were bought many years ago, and they are just right on some floors. I can't remember when I last wore them though.

Sadly it works for men as well as women, the dances you get varies with what you wear. So after trying the tight lycra tops, it wasn't so much a matter of what was said, more the feeling (or rather the way I was being felt :wink: ) That persuaded me to put a few more in the wardrobe/come dance bag. Glittery shirts work for some, but, ladies, is it ever possible that shorts are appealing on a man? (I shall appear in them sometimes, regardless of the answer).

Greg

PS a bit of synchronicity with Chris, I hadn't seen his post which covers the same ground, until after posting this.

[Jon L]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Are there reasons for what you wear.
I (like a lot of men) sweat a lot an at large venues such as Camber was forever running back to my bag for a towel.
on one occasion I left the baseball cap on, sweating problem was overcome.
Unfortunately on close moves there was a tendency to but the lady with the peak of the cap.
so I tried the bandana.
Peter


I always wondered where the story of the bandana came from.

However when you see Mr Lizard on the dance floor with bandana you know it's Mr Lizard!, when you see Nigel with the Cap you know it's Nigel. In other words certain characters have invented their own style in the way the dress.

Ladies you can do the same! in the way you dress - I'll leave it for you fair maidens to comment on that:wink:

I like to start a long freestyle evening, wearing a shirt with buttons on and long sleeves unless its 30 C and then I might wear a tee shirt. With tee shirts I prefer V necked ones to round neck purely because I am a bit shorter (a V neck makes the neck look longer). I usually always have black 'Next' jeans on.

As for shoes I have two pairs. For most evenings I wear the dance trainers for comfort and grip. For black tie evenings however I have a pair of black gamber hard soles, as wearing trainers with a DJ looks pants.

I haven't yet bought B &W's purely because I don't consider myself good enough to! :na:

[Dance Demon]

I'm on my second pair of Bleyer Black & Whites, and have just acquired a pair of Bleyer black& Reds........They are very light, very soft, and very comfortable. They have a flat sole with no heel. I used to wear a pair of ordinary leather soled shoes that I thought were great, until I got my first pair of Bleyers. I tended up until a few months ago, to wear mainly black and white clothing, i.e, black t shirt with white trim, or black & white panel shirts, and the shoes matched them. more recently i have been wearing loose fitting combat style trousers, which I have found very cool(temperature) to dance in, and more brightly coloured t shirts. My black & whites don't really look right with those, so I wear my Capezzio dance trainers instead, they are also very comfy, but not as light as the Bleyers. I also prefer the B&Ws for Lindy Hop. I think there is a lot in the statement that how you dress reflects how you feel about yourself. Before I lost weight, I think I wore dark clothing because it had a slimming effect, whereas I now feel less self conscious in brighter clothes.

[Paul F]

I must confess, I did buy a pair of.......not B+W's......but shiny silver dance trainers. The stealth low-profile thingy's.

They were ok as shoes go but nothing special.

They certainly got noticed as , at the time, not many people were wearing them. It was on one particualr night I was taking part in a beginners class and the ladies were moved round. The lady who stopped at me immediately looked at my feet and said "Oooo you must be good wearing them". :what:

Since then i have never worn them. I dont want people to immediately 'assume' im a good dancer just by what im wearing whatever my actual standard is. I guess deep down i wanted people to notice me when i wore them (why else would i have bought them) but at the end of the day I felt uncomfortable with all the preconceptions.

Now im happy with my bloch's. Nice and......well.......black :blush:

As for B+W's. I (probably wrongly) associate these with the old style of dance in days gone by which isnt really the impression i want to give so i dont wear them.

Someone mentioned they were called 'Astairs'. Am i right in thinking then that they are from some years back! :confused:

At the end of the day , if you are wearing something that suggests 'good dancer' then its down to the person to show that they are :devil: :grin:

[Alfie]

Hi All,
I like to think I always dress to impress, myself if nobody else.
I can understand the chillout comfort style especially if you spend all week in a collar and tie but as I spend all week dressed like a tramp (not THE tramp) I like to get dressed up, even on a class night.
As any of you out there who have seen me out and about. Some of my dance gear is a bit loud but I tend to wear it for my benifit. Cos I think it looks cool.
I do own silky bowling shirts and waistcoats which match my trousers and I have had requests to wear my red trousers at certain venues.
On the subject of B/W dance shoes which I also wear (as well as brown and whites and I'm saving up for a hand made red, white and blue pair) I wear Bleyers that are like slippers, so comfortable that I never want to take them off. I dont wear them to be noticed especially they just fit in wih the rest of my outfits.
But I have found that people tend to expect you to be a bit good if you wear B/W shoes. I have been refused a dance on the supposition that I was too good because I had B/W shoes on!!!!

[Daisy]

I don't notice a guys attire so much as the gorgeous smell of his after-shave or cologne, if he's wearing some. There's nothing worse than a stinky guy (or woman)!... so always wear something lovely smelling. My partner always smells fabulous and gets a lot of compliments from ladies about it.

My favourites are Cocoa Chanel or Le Perla.!!

[Jon L]

On that subject of spraying things on, I usually spray Hugo Boss EDT on my shirts. It just makes it pleasant for the lady concerned.

I have to wear unperfumed Antiperspirant these days which they annoyingly call women's spray. This is because I am alergic to the perfumes that are in the men's sprays. I discovered this when I sprayed deodorant and when I took my shirt off at the end of the night's dancing , I had a red rash accross my chest.

[Lounge Lizard]

Originally posted by Daisy
I don't notice a guys attire so much as the gorgeous smell of his after-shave or cologne, if he's wearing some. There's nothing worse than a stinky guy (or woman)!... so always wear something lovely smelling. My partner always smells fabulous and gets a lot of compliments from ladies about it.

My favourites are Cocoa Chanel or Le Perla.!!
Something tender to my heart, I cant pass a duty free without buying another bottle of smelly:drool:
Been told it was bit ott in the past but still think it is better than the alternative.
p