Blues Workshops/Lessons

[marko]

Hi all,
Not sure if I have posted this in the right place but here goes anyway...

My partner and I have been dancing now for nearly 4 months and really love the blues/lating style of slower dancing. We have had a few basic tasters from the ice breakers etc at freestyles, mainly done by Marc Forster and Rachel (great teachers).

Trouble is, as soon as we are 'let loose' in the blues rooms we just feel out of our depth (or at least I do, Mandy is pretty good at following the guys OK). We are both comfortable doing the freestyle stuff in the main MJ room and can happily twirl and bop all night long.

We both want to get started properly on the slower dance styles (blues/latin) and are looking for some workshops to kick-start this but they seem in real short supply.

However, we have seen the blues weekend run by Ceroc Scotland in Dundee on Spet 4/5/6. We dont mind travelling (even the 437 miles to Dundee!) but would like to be sure we are doing the right thing.

So...
Would this be a good option to get us going?
Will we be out of our depth and waste the weekend?
Does anyone know of any other Blues workshops coming up anywhere? I have trawled the various Ceroc web sites but cant find anything. As I said, we dont mind travelling, it is part of the fun for us.

Any advice/help greatly appreciated
Thanks
Mark

[Martin]

Hi all,
Not sure if I have posted this in the right place but here goes anyway...

My partner and I have been dancing now for nearly 4 months and really love the blues/lating style of slower dancing. We have had a few basic tasters from the ice breakers etc at freestyles, mainly done by Marc Forster and Rachel (great teachers).

Trouble is, as soon as we are 'let loose' in the blues rooms we just feel out of our depth (or at least I do, Mandy is pretty good at following the guys OK). We are both comfortable doing the freestyle stuff in the main MJ room and can happily twirl and bop all night long.

We both want to get started properly on the slower dance styles (blues/latin) and are looking for some workshops to kick-start this but they seem in real short supply.

However, we have seen the blues weekend run by Ceroc Scotland in Dundee on Spet 4/5/6. We dont mind travelling (even the 437 miles to Dundee!) but would like to be sure we are doing the right thing.

So...
Would this be a good option to get us going?
Will we be out of our depth and waste the weekend?
Does anyone know of any other Blues workshops coming up anywhere? I have trawled the various Ceroc web sites but cant find anything. As I said, we dont mind travelling, it is part of the fun for us.

Any advice/help greatly appreciated
Thanks
Mark

Hi Mark,

Dancing slow IMHO is always more tricky, as you can get away with less... i.e. your timing and style has to be more "on the ball"

It is far easier to "look good" to faster music when you first start.

The weekend in Scotland (having looked at the content) seems to be exactly what would benifit you most.

Dive in and give it a go, be brave be bold.

I certainly do not think it would be a waste of a weekend, quite the opposite.

If you have not found out yet, the Scots are a wonderful bunch and Franck is great... If you have any other concerns I would suggest you PM Franck...

However, I still say... GO FOR IT... or as a well know footwear company would say "just do it" :cheers:

[straycat]

Does anyone know of any other Blues workshops coming up anywhere? I have trawled the various Ceroc web sites but cant find anything. As I said, we dont mind travelling, it is part of the fun for us.

Some coming up in Newcastle in September, October & November. Might still be a bit far for you, but I can PM you details if you're interested.

[dep]

Franck's Blues weekender will not be wasting your time.

[drathzel]

Franck's Blues weekender will not be wasting your time.

:yeah: i am bringing across some of my dancers from NI (taking the boat and driving) to francks workshops because he is a fab teacher.

[tsh]

Dancing slow IMHO is always more tricky, as you can get away with less... i.e. your timing and style has to be more "on the ball"

It is far easier to "look good" to faster music when you first start.


I'd offer the complete opposite point of view. Slow feels harder because you have time to think about what you are doing, but you can get away with so much more (and there is much less of a 'right' way of dancing slow).

Dancing to fast music might feel good, but it will often look rubbish, and you can't get away with making mistakes in your timing if you want to look like you're dancing with your partner rather than at them.

Sean

[Lory]

I'd offer the complete opposite point of view. Slow feels harder because you have time to think about what you are doing, but you can get away with so much more (and there is much less of a 'right' way of dancing slow).

Dancing to fast music might feel good, but it will often look rubbish, and you can't get away with making mistakes in your timing if you want to look like you're dancing with your partner rather than at them.

SeanSorry, i'm with Martin on this one!

[David Bailey]

Dancing slower is more difficult in MJ because you don't have a momentum-based beat to move to. If you try to dance normal MJ-style to a blues-tempo track - well, you can do it, but it just feels wrong.

Slow tunes obviously do have a beat, but it's more of a guideline I think.

Most people doing MJ to a blues tempo simply look like they're dancing in slow motion - or walking on the Moon, as a certain someone once said. See the DVD of last years' Ceroc Blues competition for many many examples of this.

If you want to see how to dance to a slow tempo, I'd advise watching how people dance to slow-tempo dances. For example, (proper) Blues, Rumba, or slow Tango, depending on your preferences. You can then use this to work out what style to apply to your own MJ-blues dancing.

Failing that, the focus weekend also sounds like a good idea.

[marko]

Hi again

A big thank-you to all who have taken time out to help/advise, much appreciated.

We do feel that (initiall anyway) the slwer blues style seems more difficult and I take Davids comments about doing normal MJ stuff to slow tempo music just not looking/feeling right. We have tried that and it just feels wrong:sick:

On the other hand when you see people doing slow tempo style to slow temp music it look great.

Special thanks also to Rachel for her PM. Lovely to hear from you as always.

I will be booking for the course. Franck even bothered to call me after I left him a message and discussed the course and the format for the wekend. A real nice guy, thanks.:clap:

In the meantime, if anybody ahs any tips/suggestions of what we might do bforehand to get the best out fof the weekend, gratefully received.:grin:

Thanks again
Mark

[MartinHarper]

I take David's comments about doing normal MJ stuff to slow tempo music just not looking/feeling right. We have tried that and it just feels wrong.

If you do more of it, it'll feel more right. Even if it doesn't get any better. And you'll fit right in, as David says, because most of us are doing the same thing.

[TheTramp]

Will see you there. I'll be DJing on the Saturday night, and I might manage to fit in a bit of my slow MJ at times too :flower:

[frodo]

...
Does anyone know of any other Blues workshops coming up anywhere? I have trawled the various Ceroc web sites but cant find anything. As I said, we dont mind travelling, it is part of the fun for us.
Given the 'blues' theme of the weekend I'd rather expect a range of workshops on the subject at the following Ceroc weekender in October.

Ceroc Escape Breeze Dance Weekender (http://ceroc.com/breeze/)

Probably not much in the way of latin though.

[TA Guy]

IMO the problems associated with slow MJ are all spatial.

The building blocks (moves) of MJ happen to fit a particular speed of music, and if you stray outside those 'limits', you need to adapt your dance or it looks like that old Cornish sport of nude treacle wrestling.
Good slow dancers seem to adapt by altering the spatials (doing more close moves etc.) or filling the blank space with something else, E.G. musicality. (or they just dance proper Blues :)).

I, having given slow MJ/Blues my best shot, have solved all the slow MJ problems by replacing them with a whole load of new problems under the guise of learning WCS :) I recommend everybody give that a shot because they are such enjoyable problems to have :).


[Incidentally, don't get me started on whether fast or slow dancing is harder, but bear in mind the 'oohs' and 'ahhs' in cabarets are usually for the incredibly hard helter skelter spins and devilish fast moves, whereas slower dancing is handy for teaching beginners! :)]

[whitetiger1518]

I couldn't care less if fast or slow MJ is considered more difficult. :whistle:

Blues is more fun in my opinion. :worthy:

If you get the right track, and the right partner, then even just a single move repeated throughout the track can be heavenly :drool:

In case you hadn't guessed I'm already signed up for September :flower: I'll see you there :)

Whitetiger

[Gadget]

I'll try and make the Saturday night party, but I seldom plan anything that far in advance :blush:

Dancing MJ to an up-tempo beat (about 135 bpm ish) is energetic and quite easy to recover from mistakes (there is not really that much time to worry about what happened or fumble about with hands - you just catch and throw into another move.)

Dancing MJ to faster tempos (150 bpm ish) becomes really hard because people want to do the same moves with the same timing, same spacial properties, just faster. You could do that, but it's just as bad as the treacle dance style of simply slowing down the moves, timing and spacial properties.

Dancing MJ to slower tempos is relatively easy if you keep in mind a couple of principles:


The time to go from one 'count' in a move to the next 'count' can be however long you want. (and on occasion, for dramatic effect, however short you want.)

Change the elastic principle of MJ *1 to a magnetic one *2

Fully commit your weight and squash grapes with your heels until they give out a little wine.

Feel your partner's movements and never mind your own; your own movements will naturally fall in sync with your partner's when you concentrate on how they are moving and what each movement feels like.

Listen to the music. Some of the most 'intense' blues connections and dances look like nothing to the casual observer; just standing holding each other - not a "move" in sight. Both are simply listening to the music and their partner's movements. Fab.


*1 - In MJ you step in when your partner steps in - create compression and 'bounce' back again - create tension and bounce in again - etc. The lead is always changing from one to the other, you are always mirroring your partner's space. {yea, ok, not 'always' :rolleyes:}

*2 - In the 'blues' style of MJ, you step forward when your partner steps back - you step back when your partner steps forward. The lead is normally just 'there' in an almost neutral state, normally maintaining either compression or tension throughout a move before dropping to the default neutral body lead. Instead of mirroring, both partners move together; matching.

[marko]

Hi all

Look forward to seeing you there WhitTiger. And hearing Tramp on the the tunes. I have just signed up. SOunds like the event is pretty popular as when I spoke with Franck yesterday he said there were only 3 couple places left and I have just booked one of those!

Looks all set to be a great weekend. See y'all there!

Thanks again for all the tips and advice. Cant wait to get started. Off to Leicester on Saturday so I might venture out and do a bit of treacle dancing then:grin:

Cheers
Mark




In case you hadn't guessed I'm already signed up for September :flower: I'll see you there :)

Whitetiger

[straycat]

*2 - In the 'blues' style of MJ, you step forward when your partner steps back - you step back when your partner steps forward.

Um... no. Nothing so prescriptive. As with other dancers, whether a follower steps forward or back depends on what the lead is leading - not on what he/she is doing. Partners can mirror or match, or anything else they feel like doing.

[Caro]

*2 - In the 'blues' style of MJ, you step forward when your partner steps back - you step back when your partner steps forward. The lead is normally just 'there' in an almost neutral state, normally maintaining either compression or tension throughout a move before dropping to the default neutral body lead. Instead of mirroring, both partners move together; matching.

funny how that sounds like wcs... :whistle:

[straycat]

My own take on the 'difficulty' of blues.

It's a natural for most of us to initially stick to what we know (eg MJ)... and MJ moves are designed for faster music. The problem isn't that they're hard to execute slowly, because they really aren't. It's that you end up with a lot of pauses or very slow sections that you have an urge to do something in.... but you don't know how. So it just... feels... wrong - often in an almost undefineable way.

My own feeling is that the best one can do to get around this is to throw away all moves from other dances, and go back to absolute basics - the close-hold sway. Practice that. Practice changing the timing of it, and leading those changes. Practice (in other words) your connection with your partner. Practice small variations on that sway.

Oh - and go to and throw yourself into every single connection-based workshop or class you can possibly lay your hands on.

And then... as it starts to feel natural, slowly and surely start bringing the rest of your dance repertoire back into your blues.

[Lost Leader]

Agree with LM's post above that the Breeze week-ender will be a sure fire bet for blues based workshops and there is also the UK blues championship held during the week-end so a lot of the best blues dancers will be there.

The other thing worth mentioning is get yourself to one of the Southport week-enders. Spending time in the blues room there will be of great benefit, even though you might feel a little out of your depth to begin with. Just watching the other dancers can help you quite a bit but there's no substitute for getting stuck in.

[TA Guy]

Dancing MJ to an up-tempo beat (about 135 bpm ish) is energetic and quite easy to recover from mistakes (there is not really that much time to worry about what happened or fumble about with hands - you just catch and throw into another move.)


Do you really believe that ?

I mean, this is all part of that myth that errors are easy to hide or recover from in faster dancing... if you follow that thru to it's logical conclusion... all dancers at 135bpm'ish are pretty much perfect because all their mistakes are easily recoverable or hidden?
Bollards! Not from where I'm standing :)

Fact of the matter is faster dancers could 'catch and throw', but only in the same way faster dancers could happen to be complete crap :)

It's where thrashing windmill dancing comes in I would think. :)

[johnnyman]

Blues dancing heightens your style and improves your dancing. You can also work on your basics more thoroughly.

Go for it.

best
johnnyman

[Easily Led]

A
The other thing worth mentioning is get yourself to one of the Southport week-enders. Spending time in the blues room there will be of great benefit, even though you might feel a little out of your depth to begin with. Just watching the other dancers can help you quite a bit but there's no substitute for getting stuck in.

Getting "stuck in" what :blush:?

[StokeBloke]

funny how that sounds like wcs... :whistle:Yeah, who would have thought it! WCS growing out of modern jive :whistle:

[Moondancer]

Pulse in Nottingham is running a blues workshop on Sunday 31st August, think it's about 3 hours long in the afternoon. Paul's mobile number is on his website.

[Agente Secreto]

CJ is also teaching a Blues Workshop this Sunday (27th July - 14:00-18:00) for Jivenites at Buckden near Huntingdon. Don't know if there are any places left but you can get the phone number off the web site or contact SnowWhite on the Forum.

Now personally CJ does nothing for me even although he does wear a skirt and sometimes a gimp suit - but I do understand that he has more appeal to the ladies, especially UCP.:whistle: However, I did the class he's teaching this time last year and it is a great foundation for people wanting to dance Blues

Pete

[JustJill]

Phew, how relieved am I that there are other dancers - well Mark and his partner anyway, who are going to Kirriemuir next weekend who are somewhat unsure/nervous about the whole thing. I've been dancing for 6 months and have signed up to go (by myself - please someone talk to me).
I really have enjoyed any opportunity I have had to dance to blues (mostly at Blaze and at the end of classes) as I feel that it gives me time to connect and dance WITH my partner - however, I'm not too sure just how well I'll manage.... the nerves are setting in!
Mind you, talking about connection - did anyone else do the Argentine Tango last weekend in Edinburgh? Wow! I will for ever more be indebted to Franck for putting this together as I learnt so much.

[batnurse]

Phew, how relieved am I that there are other dancers - well Mark and his partner anyway, who are going to Kirriemuir next weekend who are somewhat unsure/nervous about the whole thing. I've been dancing for 6 months and have signed up to go (by myself - please someone talk to me).
I really have enjoyed any opportunity I have had to dance to blues (mostly at Blaze and at the end of classes) as I feel that it gives me time to connect and dance WITH my partner - however, I'm not too sure just how well I'll manage.... the nerves are setting in!
Mind you, talking about connection - did anyone else do the Argentine Tango last weekend in Edinburgh? Wow! I will for ever more be indebted to Franck for putting this together as I learnt so much.

Jill, you are not alone....I've booked too. Never done blues before, and haven't been to Ceroc for months....getting scared....hoping the boys will look after me :flower:

[JustJill]

Jill, you are not alone....I've booked too. Never done blues before, and haven't been to Ceroc for months....getting scared....hoping the boys will look after me :flower:

Oh thank goodness for your message ... I'm not alone with my angst. Will try to put o a pic so that if you see me you'll talk. :) Hope I can master the technology!

[Nessiemonster]

I'll be at the Kirriemuir parties too, though I'm not doing all the workshops. I just lurve blues... :drool:

Anyway, I was at the Edinburgh tango weekend too, so hopefully you'll recognise me and come and say 'hi'. I lost my voice for that, but it's come back now, so I'll actually be able to talk to you!! :)

See you on Friday... :flower:

[whitetiger1518]

Maybe it is the Blues addict in me, but I think the boys more than looked after us :worthy:

Mind you - maybe that was because I was literally prowling round the dance floor, growling if I couldn't find the leaders I wanted (and apparently purring too if I did manage to hunt them down :blush: :lol: )

Thanks guys for a wonderful weekend

Whitetiger

[drathzel]

Mind you - maybe that was because I was literally prowling round the dance floor,


i dont think that sounds like the tiger in you, it sounds like the woman!! We All stalk our prey!!! Especially in the blues room!!!