Advice on building a new PC

[robd]

Am thinking of building a new PC (once I can make some choices from the vast range of potential components out there). I realise there's probably less of a financial gain to building my own system now than there was in the past but I want to pick exactly the components that I want and I expect there'll be a certain sense of satisfaction once the thing is up and running.

I have had no problems when upgrading my current one - adding optical drives, memory, PCI and AGP cards, etc - but I have never built one from scratch before. I presume a well labelled motherboard with a decent manual will help me make the right connections to all the other components but how difficult or otherwise is fitting a processor and cooling to it?

[David Franklin]

I'm looking at doing this in the near future; I think it's all pretty straightforward these days to be honest.

You might want to look around on YouTube, it's a good way of getting an idea of what's involved for particular cases/components etc.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Am thinking of building a new PC (once I can make some choices from the vast range of potential components out there). I realise there's probably less of a financial gain to building my own system now than there was in the past but I want to pick exactly the components that I want and I expect there'll be a certain sense of satisfaction once the thing is up and running.

I have had no problems when upgrading my current one - adding optical drives, memory, PCI and AGP cards, etc - but I have never built one from scratch before. I presume a well labelled motherboard with a decent manual will help me make the right connections to all the other components but how difficult or otherwise is fitting a processor and cooling to it?

Very easy, but when building your own, plan everything first. :)

Case first : big enough for easy access ; consider any external sockets it has, usb,firewire etc... ; will it look good and fit where you intend to place it; does it have good air flow. If it comes with a power supply, will this be good enough (power/connections) for your components ?

Then the next main thing is the motherboard. You need to get one that will offer all the features you need and support the CPU you have selected. Bog standard fans aren't that great, so consider a better one and consider noise levels.

All the other stuff is less important and is often a case of "purpose of the computer" and "how much do you want to spend"

[martingold]

processor and cooling fan fitting is very easy these days with the low insertion force sockets you just open the locking lever drop the chip in and push a the locking lever home then you fit the cooling with a couple of clips making sure you have removed the tape from the heat sink compound on the heat sink (i always add more compound as well)
I personally like asus motherboards as and go for the best you can get (with the Deluxe version of the range asus you get all the different plugs sockets etc )

[Dreadful Scathe]

(i always add more compound as well)

Nooo, don't add MORE :) Although getting silver thermal paste is worth it.

[martingold]

Very easy, but when building your own, plan everything first. :) (snip)

All the other stuff is less important and is often a case of "purpose of the computer" and "how much do you want to spend"

I agree with the whole post but imho i probably wouldnt build a machine now as there are silly deals (sometimes you can get the whole machine for less than it would cost you to buy the installed operating system) and most machines are configurable

[pmjd]

Good advice from the previous posts.

Would also add when it comes to the motherboard and installing the CPU and heatsink/fan, do it the foam that the motherboard comes packed in, not once installed in the case. The pressure you need to apply to get the heatsink/fan installed can be enough to break the motherboard once it's in the case, as it's elevated on a few positioning screws. Also don't apply too much thermal grease to the CPU, less is better.

[edit] Beaten to it twice :rofl:

Just noticed I put fan when I meant the heatsink/fan that goes on the cpu

[martingold]

Nooo, don't add MORE :) dont know about that cos it depends which books you read
Although getting silver thermal paste is worth it.
:blush:

[Dreadful Scathe]

I agree with the whole post but imho i probably wouldnt build a machine now as there are silly deals (sometimes you can get the whole machine for less than it would cost you to buy the installed operating system) and most machines are configurable
I'd probably agree with that, but what I'd do would be to look for a decent spec machine to build from. So I'd pick the machine that had a case,motherboard,cpu, HD configuration I want and then get the gfx cards, soundcards, extra memory or whatever I want for it.

[martingold]

I'd probably agree with that, but what I'd do would be to look for a decent spec machine to build from. So I'd pick the machine that had a case,motherboard,cpu, HD configuration I want and then get the gfx cards, soundcards, extra memory or whatever I want for it.

:blush:absolutely

[David Franklin]

I agree with the whole post but imho i probably wouldnt build a machine now as there are silly deals (sometimes you can get the whole machine for less than it would cost you to buy the installed operating system) and most machines are configurableI agree, you won't save money. But you can get exactly what you want.

With the likes of Dell, you can usually configure stuff like RAM and CPU, but choice of motherboard and/or power supply can be more problematic. And with my last Dell machine, they'd used a nonstandard PSU, so unless you were prepared to rewire the cabling, you were stuck with it. Which given it wasn't powerful enough to handle a decent graphics card, meant I had to get a whole new machine.

[DavidB]

I've built several PCs. As you say, the main benefit is getting exactly the components you want. It is not to save money any more.

Fitting a processor is perhaps the easiest stage. They come with full instructions, and are usually just a case of unclipping a catch, opening a cover, dropping the CPU in, and then closing the cover and clipping the catch back.

Heat sinks are a lot harder. Some need a backing plate on the reverse of the motherboard, and others just need clipping in. The clips should be easier, but I hate them. The edges of heat sinks are very sharp and catch your fingers. There is usually one clip that you can't get to because something is in the way. Their advantage is that you can take the heat sink off without having to remove the motherboard.

The standard Intel heatsinks work fine, but there are plenty of alternatives that are better at cooling, or quieter, or both.

Most cases have holes for several different motherboards, and you need to work out which holes need stand off screws in for actually mounting the board on to. Make sure that you use the right screws with the stand offs, and also make sure that the stand offs have a screw thread drilled into them.

Unless you need a small case, then go for a reasonably large one. It gives you so much more space to work with. Also some of the better modern power supplies are quite large, and may not fit in a smaller case.

When plugging everything together, the biggest problem is the cabling. One trick it to route as many cables as possible behind the motherboard. The other is to get a modular power supply. This has detachable cables, so you don't have too many unused cables left inside. Make sure you buy cables that are long enough to route properly, and get plenty of cable ties.

The last thing to consider is noise. It is very easy to build a fast modern PC that sounds like concorde taking off. Avoid any case that uses 8cm fans. 12cm fans are a lot quieter. Think about getting a fan controller so you can change the speed of the fans from the front panel. Some cheap power supplies make a lot of noise - it is worth paying a bit extra for a better quality and quieter PSU.

Custom PC magazine had a really good article on building your own PC last year. It is worth trying to get a back issue.

[Beowulf]

True buying a pre built PC is sometimes cheaper you can’t always dictate what components go into it. It may have sub standard memory, a cheap graphics card, lousy network card etc.

I always build my PC's from scratch.. It may cost me a bit more but I know where every screw came from and I get the satisfaction of a job well done.

I also say build your own if performance is your key goal. My last PC (Now woefully underspecced) was bleeding edge when I built it a few years back. It had the fastest memory, graphics, processor, motherboard, HDD I could buy at the time. I arranged things for maximum cooling and efficient airflow (My pet hate is to look inside a PC and see a spaghetti mess of tangled cables.. I like to route my cables efficiently)

Admittedly it sounds like a small jet aircraft when running (Big fan + overclocked PC = NOISY!!!) but it runs well.

My next project (if I every have any spare cash) is to build a new powerful machine but much quieter.. Probably water-cooled.

Building a PC is child’s play.. just ensure the memory and CPU match what the motherboard supports and if you can play with meccano or lego you can build a PC.

[geoff332]

I agree with the whole post but imho i probably wouldnt build a machine now as there are silly deals (sometimes you can get the whole machine for less than it would cost you to buy the installed operating system) and most machines are configurableExcept those machines will have seriously sub-standard components. If you just want a desktop machine for work, surfing and the occasional game you can usually get away with it. If you want something good for anything other than basic stuff, you will be compromised buying off the shelf.

The best reasons for building your own machine are quality and specialisation. You need to decide what you want your machine to do and then put in the best components for that purpose. Unfortunately, there are so many choices out there that it's pretty diabolical to make good decisions.

Some general advice...

1. Buy near the front in terms of basic technology. At the moment, this means a mobo with built in SATA capability and plenty of PCI (and PCI-E) ports. Be very aware of the other ports - especially USB.

2. Work out the bottle necks for what you want and overpower the machine in these areas. In general, this means RAM if you're running Vista and the rest will depend on your usage.

3. Be aware of interactions. For example, if you are using nVidia graphics, you need an nVidia mobo to link dual graphics boards properly (I can't remember what they call that technology...). The PSU is reasonably important if you're running a high-powered machine.

4. Be prepared to spend on the GPU - many applications are shifting all sorts of processing off to the GPU, so having more power here is well worth the month. That said, if you're not playing high-end games, you don't need a top of the line GPU.

5. Be very fussy when buying components and make sure you know exactly what you're buying. It's very easy to buy one thing that's not quite what you expected.

If you know what the machine's for, I can probably dig up some good places to look for recommendations on specific hardware - it does vary, depending on what you want.

I'd take a look around Tom's Hardware : Hardware News, Tests and Reviews (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/). They do good reviews and will also give you instructions on building a machine as well.

[robd]

Thanks for the advice so far.

I have been doing a lot of reading up about it to try and future proof my selections as far as possible (and within budget) and I am narrowing down my selections somewhat but there is a lot to consider

I did buy a factory refurb HP from Cash Converters a couple of months ago but it's not great for games, graphics card upgrade potential is miserable as it's AGP and the PSU is a custom fit. Rather than try to eek more from that I decided to start afresh.

Just looking at a Q6600 processor on ebuyer and there's a nifty video showing the install of the processor - he didn't apply any thermal paste but I've seen advice to do just that in so many places that I guess it's just an oversight on their part.

[pmjd]

I have been doing a lot of reading up about it to try and future proof my selections as far as possible (and within budget) and I am narrowing down my selections somewhat but there is a lot to consider
Do you have a short list so far?


Just looking at a Q6600 processor on ebuyer and there's a nifty video showing the install of the processor - he didn't apply any thermal paste but I've seen advice to do just that in so many places that I guess it's just an oversight on their part.

Would be one hell of an oversight:eek: the thermal paste transfers the heat from the CPU to the heatsink, without the CPU would cook.

[robd]

Do you have a short list so far?


No, I have a long(ish) list though some are very similar - e.g ASUS P5K Mobo variants - and I am just jotting them down for now to check online reviews, etc later

Will put up a list when it's slimmer for comments.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Would be one hell of an oversight:eek: the thermal paste transfers the heat from the CPU to the heatsink, without the CPU would cook.


Not really. The thermal paste only makes heat transfer better by filling in imperfections in both surfaces, the CPU won't cook without out. In general putting on too much is worse than none at all. wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_grease)

[bigdjiver]

... the thermal paste transfers the heat from the CPU to the heatsink, without the CPU would cook.The optimum heat transfer is metal to metal. Because the metal surfaces are not perfectly flat and smooth there is much less that 100% contact. There should be the minimum amount of heat paste used, just enough to fill the minute gaps, and it should be spread over the whole surface. The big dollop I often find in the middle of the CPU probably separates the surfaces and reduces the heat transfer.

[pmjd]

Thanks DS and bigdjiver, I knew it but am not having a good explaining myself clearly day today. I think it's the trauma of doing a council planning application form that's addling my brain


Not really. The thermal paste only makes heat transfer better by filling in imperfections in both surfaces, the CPU won't cook without out. In general putting on too much is worse than none at all. wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_grease)
I have come across one case, an integrated AMD CPU, which was passively cooled and kept falling over every 4 mins. Checked the heatsink to find no thermal paste what so ever. Was fine after a light application of thermal grease.


There should be the minimum amount of heat paste used, just enough to fill the minute gaps, and it should be spread over the whole surface. The big dollop I often find in the middle of the CPU probably separates the surfaces and reduces the heat transfer.
I know:wink:

Also don't apply too much thermal grease to the CPU, less is better.

[bigdjiver]

...I know:wink::blush: Sorry, I missed some posts in the thread, and don't know how.:confused:

[Beowulf]

The optimum heat transfer is metal to metal. Because the metal surfaces are not perfectly flat and smooth there is much less that 100% contact. There should be the minimum amount of heat paste used, just enough to fill the minute gaps, and it should be spread over the whole surface. The big dollop I often find in the middle of the CPU probably separates the surfaces and reduces the heat transfer.

I use Arctic silver compounds (I like Arctic Silver V.. but that may be overkill.. Arctic silver III is just as good) and I use a pea sized (garden pea .. not marrowfat) and "smear" it out between Headsink head and CPU dye. neither are hugely expensive.. you're only talking a couple of pounds here. I think 3.5g of Arctic silver 5 is about a fiver these days.

beware.. not all thermal pastes are equal. I was reading an article recently (and if I could find the link again i'd post it here) about a guy who did a test on 5 top silver thermal pastes.. only the arctic silver ones actually contained any silver (and in very high percentages too.. 99.9%)

I also saw a site as well where the builder SANDED and POLISHED the cpu dye and heatsink heads to a very fine mirrored finish to maximise metal to metal contact !! Not something I would like to try.

All things in moderation.. use good quality thermal grease.. but don't over do it !

[RedFox]

Loads of good advice already, so just a few comments:


I presume a well labelled motherboard with a decent manual will help me make the right connections to all the other components...

:yeah: Spot on!


Building a PC is child’s play.. just ensure the memory and CPU match what the motherboard supports and if you can play with meccano or lego you can build a PC.

True - although it gets harder when you plug it in and nothing happens! :eek:


I'd take a look around Tom's Hardware : Hardware News, Tests and Reviews (http://www.tomshardware.com). They do good reviews and will also give you instructions on building a machine as well.

It's certainly on my list of places to go.:nice:


I have been doing a lot of reading up about it to try and future proof my selections as far as possible (and within budget) ...

I've learned from expensive experience that not much is future proof for more than about 12 months! :sad: It's a personal choice but I'd tend to err on the side of the budget. One of the advantages of building your own machine is added confidence to upgrade it later. :wink:

As for other issues, noise would be high on my list, as mentioned by a couple of other people. The other would be energy efficiency - this page (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/energy-efficient-computing-options,1672-3.html) is a good starting point for this. And if you're using less power you can turn down the fan speed, which also cuts the noise too.

Good luck.

[StokeBloke]

If you're using less power you can turn down the fan speed, which also cuts the noise too.Nahhh water cooling and over-clocking is the way to go :whistle:

Anyway; why would someone who is basically lazy not just buy a ready to go box? :D

__________________
"Do you too suffer the arrogance (http://www.jivetango.co.uk/About.html) of being the best dancer in the room?" - Everytime I go to the loo robd :)

[robd]

Nahhh water cooling and over-clocking is the way to go :whistle:



Well, I may have a dabble at OCing - depends how confident I feel :what:

So, got a bit ahead of myself and have ordered

Antec P182 Gunmetal Grey Super Mid Tower Case - No PSU
Corsair HX Series 520W Modular PSU - ATX12V v2.2 APFC
ASUS P5K-E/WIFI-AP AiLifestyle Series P35 Socket 775 Socket eSATA 8 channel Audio ATX Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 Stepping (2.4GHz 1066MHz) Socket 775 L2 8MB Cache (2x4MB (4MB per core pair)
Crucial 2GB kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Ballistix Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL4
2 * Samsung SpinPoint HD501LJ 500GB SATAII Hard Drive 16MB Cache - OEM
Arctic Cooling AC-FRZ-7P Freezer 7 Pro Socket 775 Processor Cooler
Razer DeathAdder 1800DPI Gaming Mouse :blush:
XP Home OEM

all from Ebuyer and a

BFG Geforce 8800GTS 512MB OC

from Play.com

I like the RAID and the WiFi AP on the Mobo - intending to try and set up RAID 1 so when (not if) a HD fails I will not have a big rebuilding job on my hands. Am hoping this will not affect performance too much though.

Re: the comments earlier in the thread about thermal paste it appears that the stock Intel cooler comes with thermal paste already attached as does the aftermarket Freezer 7 Pro I have opted for.

Decided on XP rather than Vista as
* Vista has no real 'must have' features over XP IMO
* performance is still reputed to be better in the former
* I also have a couple of peripherals that don't seem to have Vista drivers yet.
I figure that if XP suddenly stops meeting my needs or Vista suddenly acquires some feature that I really want then I have no probs with wiping and doing a fresh install and/or dual booting. I wondered about trying to use my existing XP OEM on the new Mobo but don't think MS would allow it to activate - seems you are allowed to upgrade pretty much everything but your Mobo :sad:

[Dreadful Scathe]

Well, I may have a dabble at OCing - depends how confident I feel :what:


Get it all set up first then OC a bit at a time.



So, got a bit ahead of myself and have ordered..


Sounds like decent brands to me, I've not bought many components recently to see what current best value for money is, but it sounds ok :)
A decent gaming moouse is a must if you play games, Ive got a logitech laser myself :) Is this mainly a games machine then ? Although I would agree with XP over Vista regardless, except i would pick Xp Pro for the encryption and server stuff ([uel=http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/howtobuy/choosing2.mspx]here[/url])



BFG Geforce 8800GTS 512MB OC

I've sworn by ATI for years, but please give us a futuremark score when you get this all setup. You could consider a better soundcard rather than onboard, something like a creative f4tality - free up quite a bit of cpu and onboard mem in games.



I like the RAID and the WiFi AP on the Mobo - intending to try and set up RAID 1 so when (not if) a HD fails I will not have a big rebuilding job on my hands. Am hoping this will not affect performance too much though.

Not sure how much of a hit you'll take but if you were to stripe rather than mirror you would actually get a benefit, especially when playing games that access disks fairly often. (even more so if you were to get raptor drives, but they're not cheap)


Re: the comments earlier in the thread about thermal paste it appears that the stock Intel cooler comes with thermal paste already attached as does the aftermarket Freezer 7 Pro I have opted for.

I was never convinced that attached paste tabs and the like were the most efficient, but you can try and see.


I wondered about trying to use my existing XP OEM on the new Mobo but don't think MS would allow it to activate - seems you are allowed to upgrade pretty much everything but your Mobo :sad:

I think a sob story of my "motherboard died due to a power surge" or such like may work, but in general, yes i've heard that too - they are not too eager to allow for an mb change.

[robd]

Is this mainly a games machine then ? Although I would agree with XP over Vista regardless, except i would pick Xp Pro for the encryption and server stuff ([uel=http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/howtobuy/choosing2.mspx]here[/url])

Well, I can't deny that the ability to get more than 15fps in Far Cry (yes, I know it's ancient :blush: ) and Quake 4 were factors in my decision.

Thought about the XP Pro stuff but I have been running Pro at home for 6 years or so now and have never used the encryption. It's not going onto a network so the Domain/GP stuff is superfluous too. Of the list at that URL the only thing I want is the security tab so that I can set folder/file permissions and I have seen a number of tips online as to how to get that to work in XP Home



I've sworn by ATI for years, but please give us a futuremark score when you get this all setup. You could consider a better soundcard rather than onboard, something like a creative f4tality - free up quite a bit of cpu and onboard mem in games.

I've got an Audigy SE here that I will try with it. As for Nvidia/ATI I just went with the one that seemed to have the better reviews and ATI isn't that company at the moment.


Not sure how much of a hit you'll take but if you were to stripe rather than mirror you would actually get a benefit, especially when playing games that access disks fairly often. (even more so if you were to get raptor drives, but they're not cheap)

Raptors a bit beyond the budget. Striping worries me in terms of a disk failure and what I would need to put back in the array (an identical disk in terms of capacity, etc?) though given that HDDs will have moved on significantly by the time it becomes a problem (hopefully) maybe I shouldn't worry about that.


I think a sob story of my "motherboard died due to a power surge" or such like may work, but in general, yes i've heard that too

I reckon MS will have heard that one a few times :rolleyes:

[Beowulf]

Get it all set up first then OC a bit at a time.

:yeah:

get it running stable then slowly crank it up little by little.. if you get to the point where you find it's "less than stable" just go back a step or two.

Just out of curiosity.. I had a look at what pre-builts were out there and popped past Alienware's website.

not going into the spec here but let us just say you can get one heck of a lot of machine.. .. .. .. .. for £5,500 ex vat ! :eek: :sick: :rofl:

and no.. not planning spending anything even remotely approaching that .. I'll stick to my home build / gradual upgrade of every component in my current PC :)

[David Franklin]

I've sworn at ATI for years,Fixed that for you. (In truth, I don't think there's much to choose between them really).


Not sure how much of a hit you'll take but if you were to stripe rather than mirror you would actually get a benefit, especially when playing games that access disks fairly often. (even more so if you were to get raptor drives, but they're not cheap)Striping improves bandwidth, but tends to make latency worse. It looks good on benchmarks, but unless you need broadcast master quality HD playback, I'm unconvinced it's really worth it.

The raptor I have in my "production HD machine" is noisy as hell; I can't say I've noticed a practical speed difference either. (But that machine is "odd": I have it so I have a machine the same spec as a customer would use, but as I'm 90% using it for SW development rather than actual real-time graphics, it doesn't get to shine, really).

Pity SSD drives are still so expensive; they do really seem to make a difference when used as a system disk (IO bandwidth isn't improved, but latency is something like 100x better).

As far as mirroring goes: every time I've lost data on a disk, it's been due to some kind of SW problem, so mirroring wouldn't have helped. External 1TB drive to back up to seems a better plan.

Edit: Even with XP, I think I'd go for 4GB of RAM these days. Worth knowing that many people find it's harder to overclock with 4 1GB sticks as opposed to 2x2GB, so just adding another 2GB later may not work as well as you'd hope.

[robd]

Edit: Even with XP, I think I'd go for 4GB of RAM these days. Worth knowing that many people find it's harder to overclock with 4 1GB sticks as opposed to 2x2GB, so just adding another 2GB later may not work as well as you'd hope.

Yes, was wondering about this. In the end I stuck with memory from the ASUS QVL as I'd seen a few comments mentioning that the Mobo I chose was a bit particular about memory. The QVL didn't have any brands listed at DDR2-800 that allowed for a 4GB configuration. The QVL may well have been updated but I couldn't find it on ASUS website (which isn't the best organised :rolleyes:) I want to get the machine up and running then if necessary I can play with memory configurations.

[Beowulf]

2 * Samsung SpinPoint HD501LJ 500GB SATAII Hard Drive 16MB Cache


Nice drives.. I've used Samsung Spinrite drives in the past (and in my current PC) and they're fast and quiet. Am looking at Samsung again for my upgrade / new Build.. which may not be as imminent as I would like :what:

of course, my requirements are not so much for game play and frame rate and more number crunching. I only have the one game (WoW) and it's not that demanding :)

however I do (should I say did) a lot of Audio processing, photograph editing, graphics rendering and heavy mathematics. I might fancy getting a graphics card later later that supports HD output and a blu ray Rom drive.. perhaps. but it's not a main feature I require.

[Dreadful Scathe]

however I do (should I say did) a lot of Audio processing, photograph editing, graphics rendering and heavy mathematics. I might fancy getting a graphics card later later that supports HD output and a blu ray Rom drive.. perhaps. but it's not a main feature I require.

They're getting cheaper (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/139985) blu-ray/hd drives - only £80. Can't see the need for one myself, DVDs do for now. If only you could download HD content without DRM legally, its so annoying that it is so easy to get illegally - ho hum - maybe one day :)

[robd]

Well, am writing this from the new PC. Build went well after using the 'wrong' screws for the Mobo and having to replace them all in place :blush:.

No overclocking yet as want to ensure it's stable at standard settings but all seems OK./ RAID isn't happening - I could install Windows on a RAID volume but it just blue screened on me each time at the XP login screen so I scrapped it and decided I will just ghost the main disk to the spare disk periodically.

Far Cry is flying :grin: but I did get my arse kicked severely as soon as I ventured online multiplayer :sad: