Stringing moves together, help!

[marko]

Hi All

OK SO I'm an 8 week beginner, been to a Beginner+ workshop which was great. If I write down all the moves we have been taught we are up to nearly 50. Problem is, when dancing my mind keeps going blank. What next? I just don't remember what I can do next. If I sit down I can reel off the moves dead easy. On the dance floor, I keep going blank and just resort to a first move, boring..

Is this normal? Do guys get this on the learning curve or am I just c**p?!!

Any advice on braking through this mind-blank?

Many thanks
Mark :confused:

[dep]

Upto and including week 8, all I could do/remember were the four moves taught that night.

Week nine, I remembered a previous beginners' move, making five to play with that night. Week ten I was upto six moves in total.
Week eleven, moved up to intermediate. Oh dear!

If you have already got to 50 moves then it sounds like you could back to the beginners' classes and relearn the 19 beginners' moves and learn to do them well and as near automatic before adding a move or two a month to your repertoire.

[ducasi]

First thing... 50 moves in just 8 weeks?? That's way too many to be trying to remember as a beginner. Concentrate on the basic 10 or so beginner moves.

As to what you do when your mind goes blank – well, this isn't unusual. I had this problem a lot when I was a beginner...

Easiest thing to do is have 2 or 3 filler moves – one for each of the different hand-holds you'll typically find yourself in.

So, a right-hand move... Maybe a back-pass, or a yo-yo.

Left-hand... A man-spin, or maybe a first move.

Both hands... An in-and-out or an octopus.

Work on these moves and have them always ready when you can't think of anything else.

If in doubt, you can do an in-and-out from any hand-hold.

Three years on from when I was in your position, I still have "fall-back" moves which I will do if I can't think of anything else.

Hope this helps! :cheers:

[DavidB]

It took me three months before I could dance freestyle. I had exactly the same problem you had - I could do the moves in the class, but I couldn't think of any to do in freestyle.

In the end I just simplified things. I tried to remember 10 moves, not 50. I had 4 that started with my left hand, 4 with my right hand, and 2 double-handed ones. Then when I finished a move, I'd just pick one of the moves for the hand I ended up with.

Don't worry about doing a lot of beginner moves. After 20 years of dancing, the First Move, Yoyo and Travelling Return make up about a third of my moves in an evening.

[StokeBloke]

Really just echoing the advice that's been given here. I just want to add one thing. I assume you started dancing to have fun. Don't lose sight of that! Stop beating yourself up, it will slowly gel. Stick to the simpler stuff and as it starts to come more easily to you on the dance floor you'll be able to take the 1st move you were about to do, and turn it into a 1st move lever or something.

It will slowly grow. Be a little patient, enjoy it and smile :D

[Martin]

50 already!

I would say learn the basic beginner moves well.

16 to 20 basic beginner moves.

I do not know where you dance, some places stick to 16 to 20 some places do up to 60 beginner moves :really:

I used to write down left hand moves, right hand moves, 2 hands moves, and study them.

Spend a lot of time in "beginners" coz most advanced dancers still use those beginner moves...

8 weeks in, :respect: keep going, most of my dancing is still beginner moves based, with variation, and I have been dancing for a while now.

Get 4 or 5 moves down well, repeat them, and sometimes put in another move.

do not get put off, it is worth it in the end :cheers:

[FoxyFunkster]

50 already!

I would say learn the basic beginner moves well.

16 to 20 basic beginner moves.

I do not know where you dance, some places stick to 16 to 20 some places do up to 60 beginner moves :really:

I used to write down left hand moves, right hand moves, 2 hands moves, and study them.

Spend a lot of time in "beginners" coz most advanced dancers still use those beginner moves...

8 weeks in, :respect: keep going, most of my dancing is still beginner moves based, with variation, and I have been dancing for a while now.

Get 4 or 5 moves down well, repeat them, and sometimes put in another move.

do not get put off, it is worth it in the end :cheers:

:yeah::yeah::yeah:

it`s not about amount of moves it`s more how you dance them.....

[bigdjiver]

Aa above plus get your partner into the basket position and walk around chatting. It really helps to fill in the time.

[Lost Leader]

:yeah: also from me.

What you are doing is understandable. Nearly everyone starts off thinking they need to learn lots of moves in a relatively few weeks and nearly everyone initially has problems remembering and stringing together moves in free style. Is it possible that you are making the second issue worse by trying to learn so many moves?

Everyone on this forum that has been dancing for a while will give pretty much the same advice. Start off with just the basic beginner moves and really learn how to dance them correctly and smoothly. That means doing the refresher class (assuming you have one at your venue). There is a lot more to the beginner moves than you might initially think and they are a vital foundation to so many other moves. If you can lead these moves clearly, correctly and smoothly all your partners will certainly appreciate it and you will then be able to start adding in one or two additional moves to gradually expand your reportiore.

One of the mantras you hear a lot from followers is that they would much rather dance with someone that can lead just a few moves really well than someone who tries a greater number of moves but executes them poorly. You should bear this in mind because it happens to be true.

One last thing - you are certainly not crap. I stayed in the beginner class for 12 weeks before I even attempted an intermediate class and my early efforts at freestyle were really pitiful. However I just stuck at it because, in spite of moments of self-doubt, it was just so much goddam fun. I still often do the beginner class now, after two and a half years, and I still pick up little things from time to time to improve and finesse the execution of those moves.

[Double Trouble]

:yeah::yeah::yeah:

it`s not about amount of moves it`s more how you dance them.....

:yeah: I'd rather a lead repeated 4 moves and did them well rather than try and fit 20 moved in to a 3 minute dance.

I don't know if this will make sense, but my advice would be to make a move last longer to give you time to think about what to do next. For example, if you have your follower in a close move or in a side by side position, hold it there and experiment a bit...a wiggle here, a play there. It makes so much difference and gives you time to plan your next move.

Hope that helps/makes sense. :flower:

[Martin]

:yeah: I'd rather a lead repeated 4 moves and did them well rather than try and fit 20 moved in to a 3 minute dance.




Pure Gold... :yeah:

Mark, get a few moves down well, and enjoy.

Most followers, simply love the fact that you are trying and that you will develop as you learn more. Smile, have fun and enjoy.

[Lost Leader]

:For example, if you have your follower in a close move or in a side by side position, hold it there and experiment a bit...a wiggle here, a play there

Leading him astray already DT :innocent:. Seriously though this is also good advice. Nearly all relative beginners, myself included, whiz through their moves too quickly initially. Slowing down is however quite a hard thing for beginner leaders to do, but it creates so many opportunities for fun - as well as increasing your thinking time.

[Jive Crazy]

First of all welcome to mj you are lucky you discovered this forum so soon as I have danced for years and only just have. I think that the best thing to do with dancing is not to worry just go with the flow. I tend to follow no particular format and just let the music lead the moves.

Steve R

[Martin]

Leading him astray already DT :innocent:. Seriously though this is also good advice. Nearly all relative beginners, myself included, whiz through their moves too quickly initially. Slowing down is however quite a hard thing for beginner leaders to do, but it creates so many opportunities for fun - as well as increasing your thinking time.

This is stage 2.

Stage 1 is being able to lead a few moves...

DT is obviously looking to the future :drool:

[Nessiemonster]

On the dance floor, I keep going blank and just resort to a first move, boring..


Bear in mind that just because you find it boring, because you're currently struggling to remember other moves in freestyle, the follows are dancing with a variety of people, who all have different styles (the same move feels different led by different people), so they are unlikely to be feeling bored.

As a follow I dance with plenty of leads who can maybe only remember the 3-4 moves taught that evening. It really doesn't matter, and I don't get bored.

As a lead, well I have my favourite 'filler' moves I resort to. It used to be a first move, but now I seem stuck in a yo-yo rut. Then I get bored with my own leading and go back to following (which I'm better at anyway, having had much more practice).


(Though please don't take that as a suggestion to start learning to follow at this point in your dancing life. I'm a follower who starting learning to lead about 2 years ago due to the lack of men and having to spend so much time off the dance floor in class. Keep at the leading - you'll soon gain the confidence to string more moves together and make up variations you've not been taught. And we really love good leads!)

[Agente Secreto]

Hi All

OK SO I'm an 8 week beginner, been to a Beginner+ workshop which was great. If I write down all the moves we have been taught we are up to nearly 50. Problem is, when dancing my mind keeps going blank. What next? I just don't remember what I can do next. If I sit down I can reel off the moves dead easy. On the dance floor, I keep going blank and just resort to a first move, boring..

Is this normal? Do guys get this on the learning curve or am I just c**p?!!

Any advice on braking through this mind-blank?

Many thanks
Mark :confused:
Lots of good advice already. Echoing what others say you're just the same as most of us. Every once in a while all of us find a plateau in the learning curve so don't beat yourself up about it - sometimes easier said than done though. After 2 years I still have nights now where it doesn't come together, I've just learned (mostly) to live with it. :tears:

My advice:

If something doesn't quite work out in freestly then follow the rule of Italian motoring - 'what's behind you doesn't matter' and just move on.:waycool:
If you've had a problem in freestyle then go speak with the teacher/taxi on the side and they'll help you learn the best way to do the move.
Don't try to learn every move you're taught in class, none of us can assimilate eight new moves a week. Pick a couple that you like the most and make sure you learn those. What I do when I go to lessons at other venues is to write brief descriptions of the moves I like to help me remember.
For now - get yourself completely familiar (and confident) with 2 or 3 moves each for LH, RH and double hand. Absolutely nothing wrong with these being all beginner moves. Make sure you're able to get from LH to RH, RH to LH and LH to double hand (if nothing else you can do all of this using a return with suitable hand juggling as you go). All you need for a good night's dancing is 5 or 6 moves that you can mix and match confidently.
DT's advice is good that most follows would rather you danced a few moves well than dozens badly. A cautionary note is that sometimes you'll dance with a follow that is not as supportive so if this happens and you feel the weight of judgement descending on you then back to 1.:whistle:
Have fun, if all else fails and the moves don't work then if you're enjoying yourself this tends to be infectious and the follow just might too - all any of us can hope for is fun on the dance floor.I reckon it took me 3 months before I was fairly confident mixing and matching 8-12 beginner moves with a few cool 'n confident mixed in as well. If you can remember half of the 50 moves you're doing better than I did at that stage.

Pete

[CheesyRobMan]

I am a geek. When I started dancing I therefore became a dance geek. I have a purple notebook in which I write down dance moves as I learn them, so I can remind myself later on, and when I got to the point the original poster described (took me about 6 months instead of 8 weeks... but hey :nice: ) I made a big list of all the moves I could remember, and then noted down beside each one which hand they started with, and which hand they finished with. So for example:

Armjive Swizzle (L-B) - ie starts with left hand, finishes with both

I could then think a bit more about which moves would fit together and which would not. It helped me to start thinking ahead instead of getting to the last beat of a move and then thinking "right, I've got my right hand, what can I do with this - hmm, another yoyo..." :blush:

As others have said it's also a good idea to have a fallback routine if your brain goes blank or you can't think straight because your partner is so flipping sexy (it happens) - mine is first move, shoulderslide or manspin, yoyo and shoulder drop. It gives me time to think about what I can do next and repeat "good thoughts in, bad thoughts out" a few times! :wink:

[TheTramp]

Only 50? For good grief man, what are you playing at, you should be up around 200 by now. And doing them all, every dance.

By the time you've been coming for 3 months, most women will be expecting at least 500 moves in each 3 minute dance. And if you can't provide, then they simply will not dance with you. Ever.

I suggest practising for 3 hours per day. Before breakfast. Then, getting onto some really serious practise times later on in the day.

:whistle:

[ducasi]

I am a geek. When I started dancing I therefore became a dance geek. I have a purple notebook in which I write down dance moves as I learn them [...]
Call yourself a geek? And you used a notebook? How 20th century?! I documented my moves in my blog! :na:

[CheesyRobMan]

Call yourself a geek? And you used a notebook? How 20th century?! I documented my moves in my blog! :na:

Blog? Blog?! Luxury! When I were a lad we had no such blogs. We had scraps o't'wood from t'fire, and we had to get them out with our bare hands. And then we had to write on them using fingernails. Spent many a dark evening picking splinters from under nail, we did.

[NZ Monkey]

Blog? Blog?! Luxury! When I were a lad we had no such blogs. We had scraps o't'wood from t'fire, and we had to get them out with our bare hands. And then we had to write on them using fingernails. Spent many a dark evening picking splinters from under nail, we did.Wood? Wood?! Luxury!

When I was a lad we had only smooth boulders from the beach. We had to move them to the top of the hill with nothing but our bare hands and feet on the frosty mornings so that we could cast them back down to shatter upon more rocks, and used the jagged edges to carve our notes onto other boulders.

I dreamed of nice, soft wood with which to write on…. :tears:

OK – seriously now. I’d say the biggest thing (which has probably been made absolutely clear by now) is to realize that when you’re going blank after only a short time dancing, that you’re not alone. I went through the same thing as well and there is light at the end of the tunnel. Thankfully, the tunnel isn’t all that long in the grand scheme of things either although it can seem that way at the time.

[DundeeDancer]

Any advice on braking through this mind-blank?
It's been said above but having a default routine helped me greatly.

At about the 6 week mark I practiced this routine until I knew it by instinct: Arm Jive, Manspin, Cerocspin, First Move, In & Out, Octopus.

Once I got relaxed with that routine then I'd vary it slightly to stop myself from getting bored, maybe do a YoYo then Backpass instead of the Cerocspin.

If you learn a single routine like that and perform the moves smoothly then followers will never get bored of dancing with you.

Followers get bored not due to lack of moves but they get bored of constant mistakes and being yanked all over the place.

I tried following at about the 8 month mark and it made me realise that the moves happen that quickly that you don't even know half the time what the move is being lead on you, your too busy just following your hand and it's like a weird dream/trance.

As long as nothing breaks that trance then the follower is happy dancing away putting in there own styling here and there if they get the chance.

Even now coming up to the 1 year at ceroc I still stick to beginner moves and only add in an intermediate moves here and there for my sake and not for the follower benefit. More for my male ego, it's like am say I can do intermediate moves if I want to but I choose just to do these cool beginner moves instead.:cool: They are the best so learn them well and don't worry about learning any of the fancy stuff too soon.

Enjoy your dancing.

DD.

[Lory]

:yeah: I'd rather a lead repeated 4 moves and did them well rather than try and fit 20 moved in to a 3 minute dance.



:yeah: x 100!

My advice would be to think about adding just one move to your repertoire each week.

Just pick the one you like the most and make sure you concentrate on including it, in every dance that evening, at least three times per dance, until it becomes ingrained in your muscle memory ;)

[Martin]

:yeah: x 100!

My advice would be to think about adding just one move to your repertoire each week.

Just pick the one you like the most and make sure you concentrate on including it, in every dance that evening, at least three times per dance, until it becomes ingrained in your muscle memory ;)

Hey, I used to do that!

In fact, sometimes I still do, when I am getting bored with myself, I think of one move to include in each dance.

[dep]

Hey, I used to do that!

In fact, sometimes I still do, when I am getting bored with myself, I think of one move to include in each dance.I've not tried that yet.
One move to a dance, how long into the dance does the Follow say "isn't this a bit repetitive?"

[johnnyman]

'One move at a time' was the mandate of a taxi dancer in my early years.

Richard Oliver said in a style workshop 'Pick your best ten moves and style around them'

Stick at it and have fun in the process. The best is yet to come.

best
johnnyman

[bigdjiver]

Watch the good dancers. If you do it on video / youtube you do not lose any dancing time.

[geoff332]

Probably the most important point is to remember that moves are not dancing. By that I mean that doing a move is not sufficient for you to be dancing. Some would argue moves are barely necessary. The other things you need to throw in are, in my opinion, far more important. Some of these include:
Fun.
Timing (which becomes musicality).
Leading/following.
Technique (how you do each individual movement).
Style (adding your own personal flourishes).The good news is no-one expects you to master all of these things in eight weeks. In eight years, I've barely scratched the surface.

What I would recommend is to not worry so much about the number of moves you know and focus on improving your dancing. Again, after eight weeks, this shouldn't be a big thing: don't put much pressure on yourself. The main point should be to enjoy yourself.

One thing I've found really useful at various stages of my dancing life are doing things like small drills to improve technique (a spinning drill is really easy). Another is to concentrate on any piece of music I listen to and try and find its structure (start with finding the beat, then the bars, then the patterns). A third is to seek good dancers, dance with them, and ask them for feedback. Workshops can help: their nature makes workshops more focused than classes. But most of all, relax and enjoy yourself: my dancing has always improved the most when I'm enjoying it most.

[Gadget]

With your mind going blank, the one thing to avoid is stopping: the main difference between experienced dancers and fledgling dancers is the ability to make mistakes look planned.

Learn a couple of hand-swapping moves for when you think "Arrgh, not this hand again; I've used all the moves I know on this hand four times already!"

Don't be scared to let go: If you get into a tangle of limbs, let go of a hand. Sounds simple, but it took me years to learn that one.

If you want variation; think on one move, then try to find out how many different ways you can get into it. What moves feel nicer going into it? Can you drop the return before it? Can you do something in the middle of it? (pause, change hands, change moves...)

The main thing is the beginner moves: once you are confident and comfortable with them, you get a lot of enjoyment out of seeing what happens when something goes wrong. (It didn't go wrong: you just made up a new move! ;))

[Martin]

I've not tried that yet.
One move to a dance, how long into the dance does the Follow say "isn't this a bit repetitive?"

:rofl: Yeah right, twist my words why don't ya!

I extra move :rofl:


Anyway, looks like everyone is saying "you are not alone Mark" :cheers:

On this forum you will find people from all over the place, where do you dance? Please do tell.

Wherever it is , there may well be someone who is from the forum who can help you - or there will be an insite to what is taught localy and how to take that and progress.
:flower:

The bottom line is.... we have all been there and we all want you to do well. :hug:

[marko]

Hi all

Many thanks for the help and encouraging comments.

My 'home' dance venue is Buckingham but we visit other venues too (once a week just isnt enough :wink:). We have been to Evesham, Bicester, Oxford.

It is good to hear that I am not alone with the 'mind blank' issue. Hopefully I will get onto the next phase of the learning curve soon. We are going to a Beginners Improvers workshop in the next couple of weeks. That should cement the beginners moves and help with hanging it all together.

BTW, we went to a Blues Freestyle last week, just to see. Was all a bit 'intense'. The blues dancers seem to be a bit precious... Anybody else found that?

Cheers
Mark

[whitetiger1518]

:yeah: to all above - Particularly Double Trouble.

Only two things to add:


Smile at your partner - Fun is the key - I learnt more, and more easily by messing up moves and having a laughing analysis of it than by worrying about it.

Eye contact as much as possible with your partner - You will get more good dancers returning for dances by giving them eye contact than by using the fanciest of moves (particularly in the blues room :awe: )



Whitetiger

[dep]

Eye contact as much as possible with your partner - You will get more good dancers returning for dances by giving them eye contact than by using the fanciest of moves (particularly in the blues room :awe: )In my week of Blue moves I hardly get the chance to eye contact my partner.
She's either grinding into my buttocks or I'm doing something similar to my Follower.
When we are face to face, no I mean front to front, I can't see her eyes.

Franck, where are you?
I need more lessons/workshops:blush:

[Paul F]

This might help, or not, depending on how you learn and recall information but a useful bit of advice that i have used in the past, and also taught, is to make up what are known as 'trigger words'.

Its a real simple premise.

A trigger word is a word made up from the first letter of a set of moves. Fortunately MJ has names for moves rather than lengthy descriptions.

For example, in the past I have used the word CAFA (pronounced Cafe) for Catapult, Armjive, Firstmove and Armjive again.
Its a stupid, made up word but its a word you will remember for that reason which is the key.

It works by association. You remember a word that then triggers a further series of words, in this case the moves. When you get more accustomed to it you can just make up longer words.

It is used a lot when learning routines to help people remember the sequence. It takes some rote learning but it really really works. Eventually you will just know them and then dispense with them altogether and just wing it :D