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Bill
14th-October-2003, 10:52 AM
I know we haven't het had the comp this year yet but been thinking about some of the threads and comments from the last few weeks and had a couple of ideas.

I'm sure I heard about a 'lucky dip' double trouble comp. If we want to keep the Scottish comp fun what about getting leaders and followers to enter and draw out one leader and two followers and see how folk get on ? Stupid ??? Fun ??

I think the Open should also become more like the other Opens and be aimed at the very best dancers allowing the 'advanced' dancers to progress and compete with their peers.

I think it was DS who mentioned 'moving up' and there are certainly enough good dancers here and elsewhere who are not sure about going up to Advanced - and reluctant because they'll look at some dancers and think they're not nearly good enough so stay at Intermediate where it becomes really congested.

Mr & Mrs DS, Brady and janet (or an other), James & Mel, Sheena - and various others from Dundee are all ready for that move but either don't yet believe it or possibly feel that if some of the 'top' dancers come up from England they won't be able to compete.

If the issue of who can/ can't enter the Advanced is really clarified then I think the Advanced and the OPen could be superb events.


Scot - what about a Seniors event and maybe somehting along the lines of American comps ( thanks for letting us see the tapes DAvid & Lily) where the very best dancers do a lucky dip. An Advanced or Open luck dip????

Only a few thoughts before we decend on Saturday. :D

John S
14th-October-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Bill

Scot - what about a Seniors event

Yes!!!!!

(and a Geriatrics event for those of us who are ready to move up from the Seniors!)
:tears:

Scot
14th-October-2003, 12:12 PM
Hi Bill

Always good to get new ideas. As regards the Intermediate/advanced I would agree with you there are a number of couples in the intermediate that could easily transition to the advanced and certainly they would get more of a spotlight there

Currently we have 40 couples for the Intermediate so it will be a fairly hotly contested category.

I guess people don't want to move to advanced because once they have competed in that category it is diffiecult for them to move back to intermediate in larger competitions.

Just a thought

Scot

Scot
14th-October-2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by John S
Yes!!!!!

(and a Geriatrics event for those of us who are ready to move up from the Seniors!)
:tears:

You just look too young John no one would believe you were a senior

Dave Hancock
14th-October-2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Bill
I'm sure I heard about a 'lucky dip' double trouble comp. If we want to keep the Scottish comp fun what about getting leaders and followers to enter and draw out one leader and two followers and see how folk get on ? Stupid ??? Fun ??


I think to do this successfully you'd need quite a few couples, the way I understand things there shall be only 5 or 6 triples in for the double trouble and some of these have only entered after being asked to enter. If you were mixing it all up then I think some of the triples who needed c-erced into entering would be less prepared to enter as the leaders may not be confident enough on their own and thus the competition would be even less of an event.

You'd also lose something from the matching outfits (memory drifting back to Brady, Mel & Heather at Blackpool).

TheTramp
14th-October-2003, 01:22 PM
Well. I'll be up to enter a DWAS(DT) competition. Put me down as a follower please :D

Steve

Tiggerbabe
14th-October-2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Bill
Mr & Mrs DS, Brady and janet (or an other), James & Mel, Sheena - and various others from Dundee are all ready for that move but either don't yet believe it or possibly feel that if some of the 'top' dancers come up from England they won't be able to compete.


You're right Bill, (I don't yet believe it) but Alex and I will be dancing in the Advanced Competition on Saturday.

Heather
14th-October-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Bill


I think it was DS who mentioned 'moving up' and there are certainly enough good dancers here and elsewhere who are not sure about going up to Advanced - and reluctant because they'll look at some dancers and think they're not nearly good enough so stay at Intermediate where it becomes really congested.

Mr & Mrs DS, Brady and janet (or an other), James & Mel, Sheena - and various others from Dundee are all ready for that move but either don't yet believe it or possibly feel that if some of the 'top' dancers come up from England they won't be able to compete.

If the issue of who can/ can't enter the Advanced is really clarified then I think the Advanced and the OPen could be superb events.

:D

Can I just point out that, to her credit, following her success in the Jive Masters competition, that Sheena has elected to move up to the Advanced category with partner Alex.
As for the rest of the "good" Dundee dancers, it is difficult enough to find a partner to enter the Intermediate with, without the added pressure of finding someone to tackle the advanced.
Sherwin doesn't have a partner at all and is only entering the Lucky Dip,Linda is dancing in the Open with Peter Phillips because, as a teacher, he is not eligible to enter any other category, Denise is dancing in the Open and I myself am dancing with Dale from London whom I have only danced with on three occasions.
Bill, if you know of any "advanced dancers" who would be willing to dance with any of us, then we would be more than happy to oblige!!!:wink: Or maybe Scot could amend the rules so that Bill could dance with several competitors!!!!
:wink: (Nigel, if you ever get fed up of dancing with Nina, there's a queue of ladies desperately looking for a partner:rofl: :rofl: ) Of course this might beg the question, were he to choose a beginner, which category would he enter?
As for any others who should be dancing in a higher category, perhaps their conscience should dictate their actions.

:hug: :kiss:
Heather
XX

Dreadful Scathe
14th-October-2003, 01:55 PM
Well my conscience is clear as we have had little practice dancing freestyle because of our cabaret, so I am more bothered about that than anything else.

I do think I'm capable (at my best) of even getting placed in the intermediates after getting to the final last year (look i do have some confidence :) ), but the catagory will be busier this year and we've had little practice, so ill be happy to get past the first round (sheesh i'd better now, how to pressure yourself eh ? :( ) - but Id be very surprised if i got past the first round of an advanced or open catagory. If i had had a lot of practice this year then i may have felt confident enough to go for it anyway, Fi certainly is good enough I think but her ability heavily relies on my confidence and my lead i.e. last year the pressure got to me in the final and I couldnt think of a single non-basic move...multiply that feeling when you're surrounded by really good advanced dancers ;).

Graham
14th-October-2003, 02:32 PM
As long as it's left to entrants to judge for themselves which category they should enter there will always be people who think that "so-and-so should be in the Advanced". But how is the entrant to judge? Some people might think that certain dancers are good enough for the Advanced, but what are they basing this on? Competition dancing is very different from social dancing - they might look great at a party but have absolutely no chance in a competition. And it's a subjective opinion anyway - all the debate about the various competitions has proved that there's almost always at least some disagreement about who's placed where! In my view, the only completely fair criterion which can be used in determining whether someone should compete in the intermediate or advanced category is how they've done in previous competitions. To the best of my knowledge, of the people Bill mentioned, none has previously entered the advanced section of any competition, and only one (Melanie) had previously placed in the intermediate section of any competition before last weekend. (Apologies to anyone if I've overlooked your moment of glory!!) So I have absolutely no issue with any of those listed entering the intermediate category if they wish, and may I wish ALL my fellow-competitors on Saturday the very best of luck!

Bill
14th-October-2003, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
last year the pressure got to me in the final and I couldnt think of a single non-basic move...multiply that feeling when you're surrounded by really good advanced dancers ;).


Know exactly how you feel DS. I have always been the same - first with Avril and then with Fran. When the music starts memory goes out the window and the mind struggles to remember how to do a basket............and what's the first move again :sick:
And fitting in time to practice is always a problem and the few couples I know who are competing are all in the same boat - too little time, family commitments, travel, suitable venue to practice etc....

We had our first practice last night in Dundee - for the Advanced and the DT so are well prepared for Saturday. Apologies to those I didn't /couldn't dance with last night but hop eot be back again soon. Good venue !!!!

And Graham, in case I'm misunderstood I wasn't suggetsing that the people I mentioned shoudl be told to move up but that IMHO they are good enough to compete at Advanced - if the Advanced was for good and/or experienced dancers rather than the very best ( which is what I feel the Open should be).

I agree with Heather who highlights the problems for the number of excellent female dancers in Scotland. Like other areas the number of very good women outnumbers the very good men so finding a partner who is willing, available and at the same level is difficult. It may not be a solution but so many women lead so well ( :D :wink: ) why don't a few partner up ? I remember some very good female couples in a few competitions and they did very well.

But I suppose dancing in a competition is not for everyone.:rolleyes:

Dave Hancock
14th-October-2003, 02:47 PM
G man,

I'm in agreement with you again, I don't have any problem with any of the folk mentioned previously doing the intermediate including Mr Brady as he shall be dancing with a new partner who has only be jiving for a matter of months.

At the end of the day this is meant to be for fun and for some people to already have to justify entering certain catagories before the dancing has actually started is making the Scottish Champs take on a more serious and competitive element which could outshine the feel good factor of last year.

Would also join Graham in wishing all fellow-competitors on Saturday the very best of luck, although obviously if dancing at the same time as me I hope you're having a shocker and then I might just sneak through a round or two:wink:

Graham
14th-October-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Bill
And Graham, in case I'm misunderstood I wasn't suggetsing that the people I mentioned shoudl be told to move up but that IMHO they are good enough to compete at Advanced - if the Advanced was for good and/or experienced dancers rather than the very best ( which is what I feel the Open should be). I was actually reacting to the way I felt the thread might be heading rather than to your original post - I agree with your idea, and obviously it presents exactly the same category definition problem between Advanced and Open.

Forte
14th-October-2003, 03:58 PM
[Heather who highlights the problems for the number of excellent female dancers in Scotland. Like other areas the number of very good women outnumbers the very good men so finding a partner who is willing, available and at the same level is difficult. It may not be a solution but so many women lead so well ( :D :wink: ) why don't a few partner up ? I remember some very good female couples in a few competitions and they did very well.

I loved my two dances with Lorna at the start of the Saturday Glasgow party . What a great lead! She is wasted following you guys!! :D

Bill
14th-October-2003, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Forte
[
I loved my two dances with Lorna at the start of the Saturday Glasgow party . What a great lead! She is wasted following you guys!! :D


Lorna....................... follow ???:blush: :D Must try that sometime. I though I just had to let her lead :na:


and I wasn't trying to get heavy on this thread just putting forward some ideas that might actually play up the whole fun element to enhance what is already a great fun day.

best of luck to everyone who is competing on Saturday. :cheers:

Daphne
14th-October-2003, 06:16 PM
Good luck to you all!! :cheers:

Very much looking forward to being a spectator on Saturday. Hope to put some faces to the avatars :confused:

Lorna
14th-October-2003, 07:16 PM
I loved my two dances with Lorna at the start of the Saturday Glasgow party . What a great lead! She is wasted following you guys!! :D

Hi Forte!

It was one of many great dances I had in Glasgow. Good party, mind you, it did take a while to get going. I didn't think that anyone was coming. It soon filled up and a great night was had by all. Thank you Glasgow for a great night. :cheers:

Lotsa love Lorna x-x

Lorna
14th-October-2003, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Bill
Lorna....................... follow ???:blush: :D Must try that sometime. I though I just had to let her lead :na:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ...................Lotsa love Lorna x-x

Jive Brummie
14th-October-2003, 08:42 PM
Hi guy's,
have read this thread with some interest and can't help but feel I have to justify mine and FC's entry into intermediate.

Right, this is what we think......

FC's been dancing ceroc for nearly 2 1/2 years.
I've been dancing since November last year. Our first competition together was at Blackpool.... we got into the final but didn't do any better than that. We were then asked to enter the jivemasters. To us, and I'm sure to everyone else, it was a real honour to get asked. So, sure enough, we had a go. By our own admission we feel we did pretty crap and maybe let the pressure get to us more than we wanted. So, two competition's... no results for us as a couple!!!

When the 'Scottish Champs' entry form fell through our door we did not hesitate to enter intermediate as we felt and still feel that we are just intermediate dancers. If we'd done better in the forementioned events things might have been different... but we didn't so we're just intermediate dancers.

We don't have much of a dancing CV together, and our repertoir of moves is limited, hence intermediate category for us thanks very much.

Maybe we underestimate ourselves but we think we're just honest with each other. So until we achieve something of note, you'll always find FC and Jive Brummie with the intermediates...........

Discuss..........!!!!

:wink:

Gus
14th-October-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Jive Brummie
......I've been dancing since November last year....

Nuff said!

I think it would be extremely harsh to force a male lead into Advanced after less than a years dancing! Enjoy the day, after all its only for fun .... and no intermediate section should ever be taken too seriously (IMHO) .

:D

Jive Brummie
14th-October-2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by Gus
Nuff said!

I think it would be extremely harsh to force a male lead into Advanced after less than a years dancing! Enjoy the day, after all its only for fun .... and no intermediate section should ever be taken too seriously (IMHO) .

:D

Cheers Gus,
have to admit, for a while there I was beginning to feel guilty for not entering advanced.... Like you said, it's only for fun.

:cheers: :cheers:

Dreadful Scathe
14th-October-2003, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Jive Brummie

have to admit, for a while there I was beginning to feel guilty for not entering advanced.... Like you said, it's only for fun.


Its like Bill said, social dancing and competition dancing are two different things. Even if you win an intermediate competition you still may feel you're not good enough to compete among the advanced dancers: compete being the key word here - anyone can enter but do they have a chance?...if not, whats the point. Although people do enter intermediate and obviously DWAS for fun its not always the only reason, people do like to think that on a good day they could win it. This is much more true of Advanced - by its definition its not going to be purely a fun catagory for anyone; wouldnt you have to feel as if you had a reasonable chance? i think i would!
Choosing to be in the intermediate has to be up to the individuals - we're not pro's, we're not seeded ...so we have to decide ourselves. It would bother me if people felt they were 'forced' to go into catagories they didnt want to go into.

on another note - are Scooby Doo and Dave Hancock going to have some sort of a 'doggy' challange match - whos the real doo ? :)

TheTramp
15th-October-2003, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
This is much more true of Advanced - by its definition its not going to be purely a fun catagory for anyone; wouldnt you have to feel as if you had a reasonable chance? i think i would!Actually, I have to disagree.

I always enter the competitions I go to watch. Which has been the majority of them over the last few years.

Apart from Bristol this year, I've never felt that I have much hope of placing in the competitions (mainly because I was dancing with Debster). Although, I know I'll usually get into the semi's at least. And sometimes into the final. There are too many couples who practice much more, and are just plain better.

However, that's never stopped me entering. I do it for fun. I hardly ever do much (any?) practise, and now, I enjoy the day.

Although, I do think that I'm probably in the minority here, but just to say that you don't have to be a totally serious competitor to be entering advanced competitions.

Steve

Lounge Lizard
15th-October-2003, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
[i] Choosing to be in the intermediate has to be up to the individuals - we're not pro's, we're not seeded ...so we have to decide ourselves. It would bother me if people felt they were 'forced' to go into categories they didn't want to go into.
Would it be an option for the entry form to include details of competitions entered within last 12 months and results, any competition success since dancing ceroc and number of years dancing. In other words a mini dance cv, perhaps as a separate page.
As the organisers don't know us individually, yet still have to keep the categories balanced this may help them, also it may be useful to keep even numbers in each category.
As I have never organised a competition and only competed in two, I know very little about these events and may be suggesting something that creates more problems and admin for the organisers.
:cheers: peter

TheTramp
15th-October-2003, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Apart from Bristol this year, I've never felt that I have much hope of placing in the competitions (mainly because I was dancing with Debster).This should of course be read as that I felt that I had a chance of place in Bristol this year, because I had the good fortune to be dancing with Debster. Rather than the way that it looks.

And I should stop posting when I'm that tired :na:

(Thanks Dave) :D

Steve

Dave Hancock
15th-October-2003, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Gus
I think it would be extremely harsh to force a male lead into Advanced after less than a years dancing! Enjoy the day, after all its only for fun .... and no intermediate section should ever be taken too seriously (IMHO) .


Am also totally in agreement with Gus on this, the intermediate is more a fun category and as James says in his posts he has only been dancing a very short time and that Mel and he have only entered one competition and while they had moderate success, they didn't place and as such shouldn't feel any pressure to move up to advanced.

From what I have seen, read and heard, the only two people who have much of an issue with those in the intermediate are Steve and Bill neither of whom shall be in the intermediate. The likes of Brady and myself both discussed James and Mel yesterday and while their presence reduces the chances of ourselves placing we both think that they should be allowed to do intermediate and I certainly wish them all the best for Saturday. I'd only ask if we're in the same heats that you guys don't dance next to me and Monika:wink:

Dreadful Scathe
15th-October-2003, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
I'd only ask if we're in the same heats that you guys don't dance next to me and Monika:wink:

Ill be trying my best to trip you up :)

Dave Hancock
15th-October-2003, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Ill be trying my best to trip you up :)

Mr Scathe, I feel a plan coming together, why don't we both gang up and take out James, but then he'd probably still be able to duff us both up:tears:

Graham
15th-October-2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
Mr Scathe, I feel a plan coming together, why don't we both gang up and take out James, but then he'd probably still be able to duff us both up:tears: Firstly, what a wimp - you're both much bigger than him. Secondly, it's Mel you should be afraid of! Apart from that, great plan - with both of you disqualified and James out of action my chances of progressing would be much better!

Bill
15th-October-2003, 10:13 AM
Just a quick word...........especially for James and Mel - I WASN'T saying they SHOULD enter the Advanced :rolleyes: ...........what I was saying that they, along with some others are in my opinion good enough to compete at a higher level.

It was meant to be a compliment and not any negative view on them entering the Intermediate comp. I think they should do the Scottish and the next few at Intermediate level( hopefully they will enter Blackpool and London) :D :na:

I have tremendous admiration for Mel & James as a couple and am amazed at the progress James has made in a year. He's doing moves now that I'm only doing after 6 years :tears:

I reckon they are almost at the stage that Dela and Elliot were last year - and look what happened to them.

I suppose what I was trying to say - and obviously unsuccessfully - was that there are some great dancers up here and a few probably do underestimate their abilities. But I suppose there are very few dance partnerships as such so very few of us who compete get the chance to practice very often so it's difficult to compete with the the best dancers down south.

With so many good dancers in the Intermediate it should be a great event to watch - and I would imagine very difficult to judge.

All the best to everyone for Saturday.
:cheers:

Minnie M
15th-October-2003, 10:46 AM
:confused: Am I loosing the plot here :confused:

This thread is called SCOTTISH CHAMPS 2004 :confused:

There is also one call just Scottish Champs, which I assume is this years

Do they need to be joined :confused: or has the former been hijacked

Dave Hancock
15th-October-2003, 10:49 AM
Think they are both for these year, we're just pretty unobservant up here and no-body had noticed Bill's deliberate error!!

DavidB
15th-October-2003, 10:49 AM
The only time I would think a couple should move up is if they have won a competition. And even then it can depend on what competition you have won. There are effectively 2 national competitions (Blackpool and Hammersmith) and 3 regional ones (Scotland, Bristol and Brighton). If you win a national intermediate title you should move up straight away.

If you win the intermediate in a regional comp, then you should move up for any other regional comps. But there is nothing wrong with entering the national comps at intermediate level - certainly in the same year. Making the final, or even placing 2nd or 3rd, shouldn't make any difference.

And of course if someone wants to move up, they should be allowed to.

David

Dreadful Scathe
15th-October-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Minnie M
Do they need to be joined :confused: or has the former been hijacked

Nope, Bill is losing his marbles and started a new one, but we didnt want to bring it up. :D

TheTramp
15th-October-2003, 12:05 PM
Old age??

:D

Steve

Graham
15th-October-2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Minnie M
:confused: Am I loosing the plot here :confused:

This thread is called SCOTTISH CHAMPS 2004 :confused:

There is also one call just Scottish Champs, which I assume is this years

Do they need to be joined :confused: or has the former been hijacked I'm afraid this thread has been semi-hijacked. It started off as a discussion about possible new categories for next year's competition, but has included some discussion about specific people entered in this year's. However, I personally think that this side-discussion is relevant enough to the original topic that it should stay together.

Dave Hancock
15th-October-2003, 12:16 PM
It still remains a discussion about catagories and this weekend though

Chicklet
15th-October-2003, 12:25 PM
Well to go back on "official" topic and talk about 2004 - is there any possibility of a "matchmaking service" for people who would love to have entered but for whatever reason haven't got a partner.

If someone could complete a form ticking boxes for
height and
build (just in wide ranges so as not to get a complete impossibility)
dancing purely for the experience
dancing to win

could they be matched as far in advance as possible in order to grab a few practices, ok this will mean travelling probably for many, but lots of us don't mind that really, for a good cause.

thoughts???

C

Dave Hancock
15th-October-2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
Well to go back on "official" topic and talk about 2004 - is there any possibility of a "matchmaking service" for people who would love to have entered but for whatever reason haven't got a partner.

If someone could complete a form ticking boxes for
height and
build (just in wide ranges so as not to get a complete impossibility)
dancing purely for the experience
dancing to win

could they be matched as far in advance as possible in order to grab a few practices, ok this will mean travelling probably for many, but lots of us don't mind that really, for a good cause.

thoughts???

C

Why didn't you advertise yourself on this forum earlier or ask a few folk yourself. I'm aware of a few people whom I thought would enter but haven't because of the lack of partner.

I think that it has to be up to the individual to 'find' a partner as the organisers have more than enough to do without the added complication of running a matching agency.

Chicklet
15th-October-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
or ask a few folk yourself.

What makes you think I didn't D?:tears:

I recognise that it's an amount of work and, especially given it's for charity, would be happy to volunteer to help out were it thought to be a useful activity, would like to think there might well be another couple of kind souls out there who would too.

More people able to enter, more money for charity - extra £5 on the fee for the matching service?

Dave Hancock
15th-October-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
What makes you think I didn't D?:tears:

I recognise that it's an amount of work and, especially given it's for charity, would be happy to volunteer to help out were it thought to be a useful activity, would like to think there might well be another couple of kind souls out there who would too.

More people able to enter, more money for charity - extra £5 on the fee for the matching service?

Apologies, just re-read my comments and they seem a touch offensive, can think of 2 guys who entered in London who aren't entering, shall e-mail them to you.

Re. the matching services, still think you can't pass this onto the organiser, as I'd imagine he'd be inundated with female requests with very few male requests. So let's take the example that 2 female friends apply, one gets a partner the other doesn't, girl who doesn't get a partner moans like hell:wink:

Or what if you were given a really sleazy partner, would you then complain against the match-maker?

Just too many cons in my head for this to work

D

Gadget
15th-October-2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
If someone could complete a form ticking boxes for
height and
build (just in wide ranges so as not to get a complete impossibility)
Size-ist and Height-ist ???
Last night I danced with one lady who was taller than me (and I'm 6'2") and one that was barely 4' : I don't think I eliminated or added any moves based on the height difference. {I have noticed that there a quite small man who now attends my regular class - I don't know how short leads manage with tall followers :confused:}
I have danced with waifs and those of a slightly fuller figure with no change of moves. {again; I'm fairly slim :innocent:, so I don't know how this would be if I was more "rotund", but I have seen larger men lead with no obvious difficulties.}

I think that ability and drama level would be better indicators.

dancing purely for the experience
dancing to win
These I agree with.

I agree with Dave H - a lot of cons: you would need to arrange a "try before you buy" system.

Why don't you start a "Competition Partners Saught" thread? {If I had the finances to go I would also be looking for a partner}

Minnie M
15th-October-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Gadget

Why don't you start a "Competition Partners Saught" thread? {If I had the finances to go I would also be looking for a partner}

Isn't that how Dale found his partner for the Ceroc Comps !

(come on Dale, about time you did a posting)

Chicklet
15th-October-2003, 01:45 PM
good points guys


the height / build thing is really only a very broad thing, IMHO a 5 6 man would be generally better suited to a 5 6 woman than a 6 foot woman if there was one "available" so it is the shorter lead/ taller follow thing that I think it would be nice to avoid if possible.

As I said, don't doubt it would be a bit of work but in theory and probably in practice could be done by volunteers - the other thing that is in my mind but I didn't put down is that if we could get a couple of folk to do it they might well KNOW a lot of the applicants, or could find out thru here and the teacher taxi network perhaps what they were like and who might suit??

Yes, anyone who applied would have to accept that there are limitations - it's not going to work incredibly well for everyone and yes someone might get a really sleazy partner, but we'll make sure she know's you're harmless really D:rofl:.

Yes, maybe the best way would be thru a thread on the forum, maybe it would just take one person to break thru the "I'm a saddo advertising in public that I've not got anyone to dance with" barrier and we could all do it....although I know of quite a few who def wouldn't....maybe a combination of posts and pms...food for thought.

C

Dave Hancock
15th-October-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Minnie M
Isn't that how Dale found his partner for the Ceroc Comps !

(come on Dale, about time you did a posting)

True and what a partner he got if I may say so:wink:

Believe he is coming up this weekend again so shall be nice to see him and yet another fabby couple in the intermediates.

Heather
15th-October-2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
True and what a partner he got if I may say so:wink:

Believe he is coming up this weekend again so shall be nice to see him and yet another fabby couple in the intermediates.

You say all the nicest things!!!!:rofl:

:hug: :kiss:
Heather,
XX

Dave Hancock
15th-October-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
Yes, maybe the best way would be thru a thread on the forum, maybe it would just take one person to break thru the "I'm a saddo advertising in public that I've not got anyone to dance with" barrier and we could all do it....although I know of quite a few who def wouldn't....maybe a combination of posts and pms...food for thought.


My memory tells me that someone has already done this in the past and didn't think they were a 'saddo'. Sent you 5 or 6 guys who don't have partners and all of them are pretty good so it shows that a lot of folk don't have partners. Equally I could've sent a larger list of good women who don't have partners.

Yet still I think it is better for the individuals to get their own partners be it through advertising or contacting people who know. In Sheena & Heather's cases in London, I believe both of them as well as Des & Dale were given each other's respective number and it was suggested they called each other. This let all involved to have a wee chat and to decide if they wanted to go for it.

In their cases it worked and they all danced superbly in London, but it could just have easily gone wrong and it is this reason alone that I wouldn't wish to act as a matching agency. From earlier in your post Chicklet I got the feeling you were implying that I could do such a match-making job.

Chicklet
15th-October-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
From earlier in your post Chicklet I got the feeling you were implying that I could do such a match-making job.

:eek: re-read my posts and don't know where you've picked that up from, sorry. I honestly truly wasn't thinking of ANY individuals - the whole thing is just a wild notion for discussion, not personal in any way shape or form.

Absolutely agree that there are far better ways to do it thru friends and aquaintances who can become friends.
Just wanted to raise comments on how it could possibly be done for those who might not have the same networking access or "bottle". But starting to wish I hadn't bothered.:confused:

Dave Hancock
15th-October-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
[BJust wanted to raise comments on how it could possibly be done for those who might not have the same networking access or "bottle". But starting to wish I hadn't bothered.:confused: [/B]

Don't apologise, I think it is a good idea for a thread and perhaps you should start a seperate one for future competitions, though may I suggest if you are doing it that you try and start it about 6 weeks prior to the comp. Next main comp is Blackpool on 6th of March if memory serves me right.

Chicklet
15th-October-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
Yes, maybe the best way would be thru a thread on the forum, maybe it would just take one person to break thru the "I'm a saddo advertising in public that I've not got anyone to dance with" barrier and we could all do it....although I know of quite a few who def wouldn't....maybe a combination of posts and pms...food for thought.

C

just for clarity so that no-one else gets any ides that I am being disapraging about them - I am NOT calling anyone who has done this a "saddo" quite the opposite, I picked this word because that's what it would feel like to me that I was doing, the emphasis is on the breaking the barrier and rising above the fact that one's first thoughts are that this is what it might look like to the rest.

Anyone who posted for a competition partner is a hell of a long way from being a saddo. Sorry if this came out wrong.:blush:

Chicklet
15th-October-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
try and start it about 6 weeks prior to the comp. .

Well this thread was originally about novel ideas for Scotland 2004 so I thought it might fit in- and be in plenty of time!!!:D

Bill
15th-October-2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
Well this thread was originally about novel ideas for Scotland 2004 so I thought it might fit in- and be in plenty of time!!!:D


Yes it was meant to be about ideas for the Comp next year - which is why I called it Scottish Comp 2004 :D :na:

Isn't there another thread now about hi-jacking of threads ?????

The discussion here has been valid but this wasn't meant to be about the relative merits of specific dancers but just a fun way of considering events/ ideas to keep the Scottish Comp different and fun for everyone.

My suggestions are obviously tongue in cheek but given how many people now try double trouble a 'lucky dip' version could be fun - despite the fact that costumes might not match ! And in America at some comps the very best dancers do a lucky dip - one couple at a time and having seen the standard I was completely gob smacked ( thanks again Lily & David).

And with so many good women looking for a male partner why don't more dance with another woman ?

:wink:

Gus
15th-October-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
If you win a national intermediate title you should move up straight away.........Making the final, or even placing 2nd or 3rd, shouldn't make any difference.

David

Ah ... I feel I must disagree. I would argue that given the 'variation' in judging competence that often there is little to separate the top 3 in an Intermediate competition. I would have thought that a placed dancer would be honour bound to move up to the next level. I would, howver, suggets that that 'promotion' should take effect next season.

The complications come when a dancer has been placed then the following year dances with another partner. Would the couple be exempt fomr this ruling? I think the Aussies have far more specificriles on the subject.

Forthe most part ... personaly I dont really care ... until it comes to a stage where the lure of prize money gives dancers an incentive to stay in a section they are patently over-qualified for. If I remember, the prizes at Ceroc are the same for Advanced and Intermediate:confused: Is it just me or does that make no sense?

I think the earlier suggestion, of having Int, Advanced AND Open makes a lot of sense. If there is a question as to whether the couple are tooo experineced .. then the couple should make their own decision. Where there is simply no debate, then personal honour should demand the dancers move up.

I think my comments above really relate to the 'competitive' competitions. As far as I'm aware, the Scottish Champs are still seen as primatily for fun, the rest of the big comps take themslves seriously ... maybe natural osmosis will sort the whole thing out ... if people feel that intermediates are too competitive with too high a standard then the average dancer will simply not compete ... and that will be a huge loss to the dancing competitoon ethos.

SO .... who's got the perfect solution?:wink:

Eva
16th-October-2003, 10:34 PM
As a newcomer (relative) to Ceroc I am potentially one of the "Saddos "who wouldn't know how to get a partner for possible competitions or indeed whether I had the ability to conmpete at any level. Help!!! any suggestions?

Graham
17th-October-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Eva
As a newcomer (relative) to Ceroc I am potentially one of the "Saddos "who wouldn't know how to get a partner for possible competitions or indeed whether I had the ability to conmpete at any level. Help!!! any suggestions? Welcome to the forum! I'm a taxi dancer at the Wednesday class, but I'm not sure whether we've met - I really should try and ask/remember more names! :blush: You're a bit late for the Scottish competition on Saturday, but the next major competition is the UK Open Jive Championships in Blackpool in March, so you've got plenty of time to find a partner and practise! You could advertise on the forum, or probably better would be to just ask people you think you dance well with. I can understand that this is probably a bit daunting! Feel free to grab me for a chat at any class/party if you want to chat about it or get some moral support!

Bill
17th-October-2003, 02:57 PM
Given that the Scottish comp is smaller than the bigger antional events what about re-introducing the beginner's Comp ???

I remember that from my first year at London and there were some very good dancers. I think it may have been abandoned because it was difficult to 'police' and everyone was meant to have been doing Ceroc for 6 months or less.

I know a few folk who might like to go along but wouldn't feel they were capable of competing. If they knew that everyone else in their comp had also been only dancing for a few months maybe they'd participate ???

What about awards such as the Franck prize for best worn kilt; a prize for most sparkly shoes/ top/ skirt; special award for dancing consistently off the beat :D

Eva
17th-October-2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Graham
Welcome to the forum! I'm a taxi dancer at the Wednesday class, but I'm not sure whether we've met - I really should try and ask/remember more names! :blush: You're a bit late for the Scottish competition on Saturday, but the next major competition is the UK Open Jive Championships in Blackpool in March, so you've got plenty of time to find a partner and practise! You could advertise on the forum, or probably better would be to just ask people you think you dance well with. I can understand that this is probably a bit daunting! Feel free to grab me for a chat at any class/party if you want to chat about it or get some moral support!

Thank you Graham, may take you up on the offer of help !

Eva
17th-October-2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Bill
Given that the Scottish comp is smaller than the bigger antional events what about re-introducing the beginner's Comp ???

I remember that from my first year at London and there were some very good dancers. I think it may have been abandoned because it was difficult to 'police' and everyone was meant to have been doing Ceroc for 6 months or less.

I know a few folk who might like to go along but wouldn't feel they were capable of competing. If they knew that everyone else in their comp had also been only dancing for a few months maybe they'd participate ???

What about awards such as the Franck prize for best worn kilt; a prize for most sparkly shoes/ top/ skirt; special award for dancing consistently off the beat :D

Beginner's competition sounds good. Not sure if confidence levels at 6 month stage would be high enough to motivate people to enter . How do you know if your dancing is even of a reasonable standard to compete? ( two left feet syndrome)

Bill
20th-October-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Eva
How do you know if your dancing is even of a reasonable standard to compete? ( two left feet syndrome) Well..what about a best two left feet syndrome competition or prize :rolleyes:

DavidY
20th-October-2003, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Bill
Given that the Scottish comp is smaller than the bigger antional events what about re-introducing the beginner's Comp ???
I remember that from my first year at London and there were some very good dancers. I think it may have been abandoned because it was difficult to 'police' and everyone was meant to have been doing Ceroc for 6 months or less.
I think this could be a good idea and is worth some thought. Also the 'danced less than 6 months' rule is at least fairly clear cut and easier to define than the borderline between Intermediate and Advanced.

However...

One of the things that made the 2003 championships good for me was all the freestyle time during the day, and I think this is partly due to having less categories than some other competitions. I think it would be a shame if the Scottish competition added too many categories at the expense of dancing time for people just there to support the charity and have fun.

Forte
20th-October-2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by DavidY
I...

One of the things that made the 2003 championships good for me was all the freestyle time during the day, and I think this is partly due to having less categories than some other competitions. I think it would be a shame if the Scottish competition added too many categories at the expense of dancing time for people just there to support the charity and have fun.

I couldn't agree more...the freestyle for non competitors like me was such a pleasant surprise:nice:

DavidB
20th-October-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by DavidY
One of the things that made the 2003 championships good for me was all the freestyle time during the day, and I think this is partly due to having less categories than some other competitions. I think it would be a shame if the Scottish competition added too many categories at the expense of dancing time for people just there to support the charity and have fun.
Number of categories
For the record, Bristol has the least number of categories (5). Scotland has 6, Hammersmith 7, and Brighton and Blackpool both have 9. The only categories that usually take a long time are the Showcase and DWAS.

I personally think that having a Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced and Open would not take that much more time to run than just an Intermediate and Advanced. You have more categories, but fewer rounds. I don't think you would get that many more entries, but you would get twice as many people being really happy because they made the final.

Another way would be to give a prize for the best beginner in the intermediate division.

Freestyle at comps
I'm in two minds about this. On one hand I can go freestyle after classes virtually every day of the week, and go to freestyle nights every weekend. But the competitions are about once every 3 months. To cut down on the categories to increase the dancing just makes it a very expensive freestyle, and no different to every other weekend event. Plus there is almost always a freestyle party the night before the competitions, and plenty of freestyle after the comp has finished.

On the other hand, I enjoyed the chance to have a few dances at Blackpool and Hammersmith when I wasn't competing.

I know people who go to competitions and just watch and compete. I know others who just go to dance, and the competition gets in the way.

Short of running the events over 2 days, I think all the organisers achieve a pretty good balance.

David

Minnie M
20th-October-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by DavidB

Freestyle at comps

I know people who go to competitions and just watch and compete. I know others who just go to dance, and the competition gets in the way.
David

I haved attended most competitions in my 9 years of dancing, however have only entered 2 DWAS and this year for the first time, I am going to enter a serious one.

So on behalf of all the 'Watchers' I am quite happy to watch the heats during the day even if there is NO freestyle, and then have a good boogie AFTER the event. That is why the Blackpool event is so good, as the event goes on until 2am:D which leaves plenty of freestyling (unlike Britroc :rolleyes: ) AND it is on a Saturday night, so the winners don't have to rush off home and you can't dance with them. (mind you it is the same problem at Hammersmith)

Once again I'm singing the praises of C2D as their price is only £20 - (if you pay now) - that extra £5 hurts a bit if there is very little freestyle.

SUMMARY
- Decent floor
- good parking (and very close to hall)
- at least 2 hours freestyle, no more than £20 in advance - (not worried if it is more if the money is going to charity)
- on tap water
- in house catering, even if it only sarnies or nearby cafes or restaurants (close walking)
- somewhere you can leave your bags etc.
- easy directions to get to the venue (+ a list of hotels if poss)

DavidY
20th-October-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
Number of categories
For the record, Bristol has the least number of categories (5). Scotland has 6, Hammersmith 7, and Brighton and Blackpool both have 9. The only categories that usually take a long time are the Showcase and DWAS.Fair enough - I was just comparing against the Blackpool entry form and didn't have the information on the others, so I assumed the others generally had more than Scotland.

Freestyle at comps
I'm in two minds about this. On one hand I can go freestyle after classes virtually every day of the week, and go to freestyle nights every weekend. But the competitions are about once every 3 months. To cut down on the categories to increase the dancing just makes it a very expensive freestyle, and no different to every other weekend event. Plus there is almost always a freestyle party the night before the competitions, and plenty of freestyle after the comp has finished.

On the other hand, I enjoyed the chance to have a few dances at Blackpool and Hammersmith when I wasn't competing.I like the opportunity to dance with lots of people I don't see at 'regular' freestyles. Also if you're not entering many competitions it is good just to be able to get up and move about a bit every so often, rather than sitting watching (getting cold!)for long periods, no matter how good the people you're watching are.


Short of running the events over 2 days, I think all the organisers achieve a pretty good balance. I do tend to agree about the Scottish one (which is the only one I've been to recently), but have been to competitions in the past where there are long times without freestyle, or where freestyle is so infrequent that when there is freestyle, it becomes a crush to get on the dance floor.

However (as with many things) organisers are never going to be able to please everyone all the time and have to strike a balance somewhere.

Scot
20th-October-2003, 04:02 PM
Quick up Date

The next Scottish Competition 2004 will be provisonally the 13th & 14th of August bit earlier as the Brunton hall is closing for refurbishments in October.

As usual will be looking for worthy Charities and suggestions for improvement nearer the time.

TheTramp
20th-October-2003, 04:04 PM
Ack :( That's a bit of a bummer. With all the people away on holiday during the summer, it'll be bound to adversely affect the number of people at the comp :(

If the Brunton hall isn't available, isn't there anywhere else that the comp could be?

Steve

Scot
20th-October-2003, 04:06 PM
Will be looking into that

But maybe people will want to take their hols in Scotland.

Maybe they might even move up here.......

Scot

Graham
20th-October-2003, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Scot
Maybe they might even move up here....... Good idea - I hear that being based in DUNDEE more or less guarantees a prize at the competition. :wink:

Forte
20th-October-2003, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Scot
Will be looking into that

But maybe people will want to take their hols in Scotland.

Maybe they might even move up here.......

Scot

Nah! No one would do that...oh Steve already has...:wink: :rofl:

TheTramp
20th-October-2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Scot
Will be looking into that

But maybe people will want to take their hols in Scotland.

Maybe they might even move up here.......

Scot Yeah. After posting, it did occur to me that it might make it easier for people from down south to get up here for the competition, as well as the opportunity to see, and enjoy, some more of Scotland, and the fabled Scottish hospitality. Although, I think that the competition would still lose a fair few to vacations away (including me - but that's probably the idea :na: ).

As for moving up here, anyone with any sense would already be in the process of arranging that. But I do have to say that, don't I :D

Steve

Bill
21st-October-2003, 01:30 PM
Introducing something like a Beginners Category shouldn't tae that much longer and Scot could always leave some of the finals till the evening so they are spaced out a little more so offering even more freestyle.:D

And if there was a Seniors Category that would probably only be one round as well -maybe two so that wouldn't take very long either.

I thought the marking was very fair and very quick.

What about a non- Dundonian ( born/resident/companion) category so everyone else can have a chance of winning
:na: ( except Denise of course but as she's only a third rather than half a team that doesn't really count :rolleyes: :D )

Eva
21st-October-2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Bill
Well..what about a best two left feet syndrome competition or prize :rolleyes:

Heather
21st-October-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Bill


What about a non- Dundonian ( born/resident/companion) category so everyone else can have a chance of winning
:na: ( except Denise of course but as she's only a third rather than half a team that doesn't really count :rolleyes: :D )

:sick: You can't make exceptions, Bill!!!! However you might get your category soon enough, none of us Dundonians can get ourselves partners without having to trawl the length and breadth of the country to do so!!! Don't know who we'll have to dance with in Blackpool but we are open to offers!!!!! :rofl: :rofl:
Linda, Sheena and I might just enter the DT together and knock you lot off your pedestal!!!:rofl: :rofl:


:hug: :kiss:
Heather.

Andy McGregor
21st-October-2003, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Well. I'll be up to enter a DWAS(DT) competition. Put me down as a follower please :D

Steve

Same here - I'll wear my best tutu:devil:

Steven
22nd-October-2003, 10:20 AM
:really:
Excuse me Heather but who said you could steal one of my double trouble partners!!!! :wink:

:cheers:
Steven

Lounge Lizard
22nd-October-2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Heather
:sick: You can't make exceptions, Bill!!!! However you might get your category soon enough, none of us Dundonians can get ourselves partners without having to trawl the length and breadth of the country to do so!!! Don't know who we'll have to dance with in Blackpool but we are open to offers!!!!! :rofl: :rofl:
Linda, Sheena and I might just enter the DT together and knock you lot off your pedestal!!!:rofl: :rofl:


:hug: :kiss:
Heather.
Dancin to sisters are doing it for themselves, girls just want to have fun or................

Tiggerbabe
22nd-October-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Steven
:really:
Excuse me Heather but who said you could steal one of my double trouble partners!!!! :wink:

:cheers:
Steven

Think it's news to Dave D and Heather Mac too - mind you maybe it was their idea :rofl:

Although we did all try this when we were in Greece and it was a good laugh!

Bill
27th-October-2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Heather
:Linda, Sheena and I might just enter the DT together and knock you lot off your pedestal!!!:rofl: :rofl:


:hug: :kiss:
Heather.


I didn't know we had pedestals :what: :rolleyes: There are some really great double trouble 'teams' around up here and I'm surprised some didn't enter

3 girls won the National Ceroc title last year and the Britroc one this year. Shoudl we retire now then ????????? :na: :wink:

michael
27th-October-2003, 07:02 PM
Quote from Heather:Linda, Sheena and I might just enter the DT together and knock you lot off your pedestal

Do i sense a new competition looming? Are females the top dancers and men.....................not so good.

New Real trouble category: three girls versus three guys who would win.

Noticed Steve, Brian and Brady all dancing together at the Edinburgh Dance on Saturday. Would the girls win easily or would the guys win the day and if we did win would the girls just accept that the guys have taken the lead........Again:D :D

Andy McGregor
27th-October-2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by michael
Quote from Heather:Linda, Sheena and I might just enter the DT together and knock you lot off your pedestal

Do i sense a new competition looming? Are females the top dancers and men.....................not so good.

New Real trouble category: three girls versus three guys who would win.

Noticed Steve, Brian and Brady all dancing together at the Edinburgh Dance on Saturday. Would the girls win easily or would the guys win the day and if we did win would the girls just accept that the guys have taken the lead........Again:D :D

This showdown has already happened. In the Blackpool competition this year the 3 girls that won at Britroc were beaten into the finals by Steve Lampert, Rob Coward and myself. We came 4th, only beaten by one man, two woman threesomes - and only denied 3rd place by the slimmest of margins.

Just think what we could have done if we'd doubled our practice time and worked at it for a whole one and a half hours:wink:

And yes, I know we were rubbish at the Ceroc champs in Hammersmith - Steve had a bad ankle (he's got a doctors note and everything).

Chicklet
27th-October-2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
the slimmest of margins.

oooooh pick a naughty cheeky rejoinder using the word slim completely out of context:devil: :devil: :wink: no - I couldn't, I just couldn't:kiss: to each fine figure of manhood instead:innocent:

Andy McGregor
27th-October-2003, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
oooooh pick a naughty cheeky rejoinder using the word slim completely out of context:devil: :devil: :wink: no - I couldn't, I just couldn't:kiss: to each fine figure of manhood instead:innocent:

It's that shiny pink Lycra(tm) that made me look less than 'slim'. In my mind I've got a body to make Kylie jealous:wink:

Heather
28th-October-2003, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
In the Blackpool competition this year the 3 girls that won at Britroc were beaten into the finals by Steve Lampert, Rob Coward and myself. We came 4th, only beaten by one man, two woman threesomes - and only denied 3rd place by the slimmest of margins.




Ah, But you were beaten by MAd DUNDONIANS !!!!! Melanie and myself!!!!:rofl: :rofl: (And Brady, of course, American, but nobody's perfect !!:wink: )
And you are correct , Melanie and I are slim!!LOL

:hug: :kiss:
Heather,
XX

Andy McGregor
28th-October-2003, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by Heather
Ah, But you were beaten by MAd DUNDONIANS !!!!! Melanie and myself!!!!:rofl: :rofl: (And Brady, of course, American, but nobody's perfect !!:wink: )
And you are correct , Melanie and I are slim!!LOL

:hug: :kiss:
Heather,
XX

So what you're saying is that you have to cross the Atlantic Ocean to find marginally better (one point) men for a threesome than The Tramp, Rob or myself:innocent:

My advice is buy British....

Heather
28th-October-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
So what you're saying is that you have to cross the Atlantic Ocean to find marginally better (one point) men for a threesome than The Tramp, Rob or myself:innocent:

My advice is buy British....


:rofl: :rofl: Typical politician!!!! Manipulates whatever is said to his own ends!!!!! Mind you, you are a Conservative, whom no-one up here in Scotland pays any attention to, or indeed would take seriously!!!!!!LOL
NO!!! That is not what I was saying at all. You were beaten by two lovely Dundonians (the Centre of the Scottish Dancing Universe, in case you didn't know!!:rofl: ), who just happened to be dancing with an American!! We have however, granted him Honorary Dundonian Status, not an honour bestowed upon just any old Tom, Dick or Harry (or Andy:wink: ),even although he lives and works in Glasgow. He does qualify on the MAd side of things!!!!


:hug:
Heather.

Bill
28th-October-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
This showdown has already happened. In the Blackpool competition this year the 3 girls that won at Britroc were beaten into the finals by Steve Lampert, Rob Coward and myself. We came 4th, only beaten by one man, two woman threesomes - and only denied 3rd place by the slimmest of margins.

Just think what we could have done if we'd doubled our practice time and worked at it for a whole one and a half hours:wink: And if Fran, Denise and I had spent more than the 3 hrs we did then maybe we'd have won at Blackpool:wink: :D

One tip to anyone considering entering Double Trouble - it helps if you all go to the same club and dance regularly together :rolleyes: :na:

Andy McGregor
28th-October-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Bill
And if Fran, Denise and I had spent more than the 3 hrs we did then maybe we'd have won at Blackpool:wink: :D


You still practiced four times as much as we did.


Originally posted by Bill
One tip to anyone considering entering Double Trouble - it helps if you all go to the same club and dance regularly together :rolleyes: :na:

I agree with this tip. And even when we did get together to practice we had to put up with everyone sniggering at us because we were 3 guys being very camp at a normal class:blush:

Dance Demon
28th-October-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
It's that shiny pink Lycra(tm) that made me look less than 'slim'. In my mind I've got a body to make Kylie jealous:wink:

hope you keep it refrigerated Andy.......
Wow ...can just picture the headlines....
TORY COUNCILLOR IN FROZEN BODY SCANDAL:devil: :devil:
:rofl: :rofl:

Bill
28th-October-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
even when we did get together to practice we had to put up with everyone sniggering at us because we were 3 guys being very camp at a normal class:blush:


surely not....................:eek: .......... how narrow minded of them.

Come up here and pratice. I'm sure no-one will take any notice :D

Bill
29th-October-2003, 06:27 PM
Spoke to a couple of people over the last week about a 'virgins' category at the next comp and it's certainly an idea they like.

So any chance of this - and maybe a Seniors category Scot ????

Dave Hancock
29th-October-2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Bill
Spoke to a couple of people over the last week about a 'virgins' category at the next comp and it's certainly an idea they like.

So any chance of this - and maybe a Seniors category Scot ????

Too many categories and less freestyle though, may put some off. There seemed to be a few comments in favour of the amount of freestyle at the event.

Dave Hancock
29th-October-2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Bill
and maybe a Seniors category Scot ????

Been thinking about this for the last 10 mins and decided to play ODA in Gus's absence, but I would rather there not be a seniors category.

I think the reason why so many people support it up here is due to John and Hazel's fabolous performance at Blackpool. However until the final I found the heats a little uninspiring and didn't feel it added much to the day, it just reduced the majority of people's time to freestyle and it added to what was already quite a congested day.

And if there is a seniors category then surely there must be an equal arguement for a juniors category, say under 30 or 35 for up and coming dancers. Somehow I don't think this would gain much support. It would be interesting to hear what other's think.

Twinkle Toes
29th-October-2003, 11:48 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Hancock
Been thinking about this for the last 10 mins and decided to play ODA in Gus's absence, but I would rather there not be a seniors category.
... And if there is a seniors category then surely there must be an equal arguement for a juniors category, say under 30 or 35 for up and coming dancers.

I partly agree with Dave. I felt that the Musselburgh comp had a good balance of competitions and free style. (Which were run to schedule.) The comps also finished at a reasonable time, to allow folks to nip out for a break.

The Blackpool comp was the opposite. Too many comps, with very little freestyle. I along with many others were very bored by the end of the day. It also run way over it’s time.

Personally, I don’t see the need for either a senior’s section or the spotlight - as this takes up too much time.
… and as for the gorgeous Georgia, the least said about her the better.

Eliminate all three and you have at least another 60 mins of free style and time for a pizza – yeahhhh!

TT x

TheTramp
30th-October-2003, 12:14 AM
Interestingly enough, I like the spotlight section. And I also enjoyed dancing to Georgia (more the first year than last year, true).

Not sure about the seniors section. Ask me again in 15 years time :D

Steve

Dave Hancock
30th-October-2003, 12:55 AM
In agreement with Steve re. the spotlight section though this does seem to be becoming more and more popular. Heard that some of the spotlights at BritRoc were fairly average and worried that we may have to sit through 15-20 spotlight efforts at Blackpool next year which would take away from the event. Perhaps the spotlights could perform to the judges on the morning, night before and we could wuittle it down to 5 or 6 spotlights on the day. (NB I feel the same about caberets - already heard of 3 going down from Scotland) and it could end up that comps end up watching set dance after set dance which means the average dancer would get bored as Lana has already pointed out.

TheTramp
30th-October-2003, 01:04 AM
I will agree that it's a bit of a problem - each spotlight takes about 5-6 minutes to complete (3-3.5 minutes for each spotlight, plus some introduction time, and some applause time). So, to have 20 spotlights, would take about 2.5-3 hours to get through, whenever you have the 'heat's'!! :really:

Ceroc in London got over this by asking all potential spotlight couples to submit a video of their showcase. The trouble with that, is that it takes a great deal of effort and time to put together a showcase, and if you don't even get to perform it, then you might well feel rather upset.

One possibility would be to limit the number of entrants, make it clear on the application form that it's a first come, first served basis, and just take those first few. The trouble with this is, that the first 5 (or however many) applicants might be all the weaker spotlights, which won't really make a decent spectacle at the champs.

It's not an easy question. But I do hope they work it out, because I do enjoy watching most of the showcases. With the opportunity to practise to the music, it's where some of the really top class dancing can take place.

Steve

Andy McGregor
30th-October-2003, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
Been thinking about this for the last 10 mins and decided to play ODA in Gus's absence, but I would rather there not be a seniors category.

I think the reason why so many people support it up here is due to John and Hazel's fabolous performance at Blackpool. However until the final I found the heats a little uninspiring and didn't feel it added much to the day, it just reduced the majority of people's time to freestyle and it added to what was already quite a congested day.

I agree with Dave. The heats were a bit dull - nobody was bad but nobody was particularly showy either.

I think they could give a prize for the highest placed over 50 in the intermediate and advanced. That way there'd still be an incentive for Saga readers to enter but it wouldn't extend the time taken up by the competition.

Stuart M
30th-October-2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
And if there is a seniors category then surely there must be an equal arguement for a juniors category, say under 30 or 35 for up and coming dancers. Somehow I don't think this would gain much support. It would be interesting to hear what other's think.
Generally agree with Dave's point about too many categories being a bad thing. It can also lead to the number of entries for a category being rather small - there were barely enough entries to justify the Advanced at Musselburgh, for instance.
Although personally I like the idea of under 35 being considered "junior" :nice:

If you were going to have more categories, then you should limit competitors as to how many they could enter. This could be done either by segregating categories (e.g no doubling up in Seniors and general Intermediate, or Open and Advanced), or simply saying each competitor is only allowed to enter 2 or 3 categories. But this takes us back to very small numbers in some categories...you know, I'm glad I don't have to organise a comp!

Bill
30th-October-2003, 01:55 PM
If there was some sort of beginner's and seniors event then it might not take up much more time as some of the competitors may have gone into the Intermediate or the Advanced sections so there might be fewer in those heats.

It would also be possible to delay some of the finals until a little later allowing more freeestyle and a breather for the finalists - although too long a delay can be counter-productive as people can 'warm down' and lose their momentum.

Interesting alternative from Andy on the highest placed 'senior'.

The 'virgin' section I think would make an under 35 section redundant although I think junior would perhaps refer to under 21's

:rolleyes:

Dave Hancock
30th-October-2003, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Bill
The 'virgin' section I think would make an under 35 section redundant although I think junior would perhaps refer to under 21's


A virgin section as previously discussed would be for those who hadn't entered a competition before and thus I don't see how it would make a junior section redundant.

Also making it under 21's would mean that there would be very few entrants, given that for a variety of reasons most jive organisations have a minimum 18 year old policy in effect.

I would also add that I'm not in favour of such category and stuck it in merely to balance the seniors thing. In my opinion both of these take away a lot of freestyle time and add very little in terms of a spectator event.

Dave Hancock
30th-October-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Bill
If there was some sort of beginner's and seniors event then it might not take up much more time as some of the competitors may have gone into the Intermediate or the Advanced sections so there might be fewer in those heats.


Interesting alternative from Andy on the highest placed 'senior'.



Another thought on this, I agree totally with Andy on this point although it may be hard to keep record of what qualifies as a senior and you may be comparing people cross categories.

I'd agree that a beginners event would take away some of the intermediate entrants, but from memory most of those who had a go in the seniors also competed in the intermediate, certainly the 2 John's did and one of the other guys in the final had been in one of my heats.

Gadget
30th-October-2003, 03:17 PM
Re: Junior/Senior categories
Why not have 'awards' for these, but given to the highest placed of the open competition? That way you have one competition and three first places.

Re: Spotlight
I can see that watching one after another could get a bit boring, but isn't there normally a stage at these events? Could the spotlights be run in tandem with freestyle, on the stage? If people wanted to watch, they could. If they wanted to dance, they could. If they wanted to do both, then they're torn.
Down side is that it may appear rude walking away from watching the spotlight to dance. And spectators may get in the way of dancers.

DavidB
30th-October-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
Heard that some of the spotlights at BritRoc were fairly average I reckon 50% of them were below average and 50% were above average. It is as if the average were right in the middle...


Perhaps the spotlights could perform to the judges on the morning, night before and we could whittle it down to 5 or 6 spotlights on the day.I don't like the idea of forcing the spotlight couples (or the teams) to have to arrive on Friday in time to compete in a first round. Not everyone wants the extra expense of staying in a hotel, or using a half or a whole days holiday. And for a team - if one person can't make it on Friday, what do you do.

As for doing the teams and spotlights twice in a day - this takes even more time. Personally I wouldn't bother competing. I usually do a run-through in the morning (with its associated 30 minute warm-up). Then I'd work out when and where I could eat. Then I'd do the spotlight, with its 30 minute warm-up, and 2 hours of nerves. Add another performance, warm-up and set of nerves, and I'd rather save the £40 entry fee. Especially when the only reason for dancing twice is to try to attract people who would rather be freestyling than watching any of the competitions.

If you want to save time, and make things less boring and more entertaining on the Saturday, then you should have the all the heats of the Intermediate and the DWAS on the Friday as well. Just have the semis and finals on Saturday.


Originally posted by Twinkle Toes
The Blackpool comp ... Too many comps, with very little freestyle.How much freestyle do people want over a weekend - from memory I think it was 4 hours on Friday, and about 5 or 6 hours on Saturday at Blackpool. (I've no idea about Sunday.)


Originally posted by Gadget
I can see that watching one after another could get a bit boring, but isn't there normally a stage at these events? Most stages are not suitable for doing jive. Many are raked. Many have trapdoors. A lot of them are too small. The floor is rarely the same polished wood you get on a dance floor - I've seen black paint, PVC coating, and unfinished chipboard.


Could the spotlights be run in tandem with freestyle, on the stage? If people wanted to watch, they could. If they wanted to dance, they could. If they wanted to do both, then they're torn.If I was told that everyone would be dancing during the showcase, then I'd assume I could dance during the intermediate, or DWAS, or the team! It might get in the way of the judges, or disrupt the team choreography, but surely that is better than missing another chance to dance.

And you would probably get some idiot who complains about the music!

Freestyle in a different room is perfectly ok - it does give a choice, but doesn't disrupt those who want to compete or watch.
...But there was a second ballroom at Blackpool. At most I saw 6 couples dancing on it, and they were practising.


There is a very simple solution to everyone who seems not to want any actual competitions at an event, and just wants to dance. Go to a freestyle instead.

David

David Franklin
30th-October-2003, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
I reckon 50% of them were below average and 50% were above average. It is as if the average were right in the middle...
It's terrible the way the standard doesn't progress isn't it. If people were getting better, all the spotlights would be above average by now...

As a serious point - until you do a spotlight, I don't think you realise the time and effort (and money) it takes, and how scary it is being just the two of you in front of the audience. Even the "below average" couples have put in hundreds of hours of practice. It doesn't cost you very much to have the courtesy to watch and be appreciative.


If you want to save time, and make things less boring and more entertaining on the Saturday, then you should have the all the heats of the Intermediate and the DWAS on the Friday as well. Just have the semis and finals on Saturday.
For the London Ceroc champs, they spent as much time on the first round of the intermediate as 5 spotlights would have taken. I know which I'd rather watch... competitors]


If I was told that everyone would be dancing during the showcase ..., you would probably get some idiot who complains about the music!Actually, under those circumstances I'd make d*mn sure my spotlight routine used music no-one would ever want to freestyle to.


There is a very simple solution to everyone who seems not to want any actual competitions at an event, and just wants to dance. Go to a freestyle instead.Hear hear!

Dave

Chicklet
30th-October-2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
There is a very simple solution to everyone who seems not to want any actual competitions at an event, and just wants to dance. Go to a freestyle instead.

Have to agree with Mr B here - I went to my first comp at Blackpool last year (after having discovered dancing just a couple of months previously) fully expecting there not to be ANY freestyle until the comps were over.

The comp days are something special, they don't come around every weekend and they are meant to be something different. I know a big part of the arguement for having lots of freestyle is that it gives people the opportunity to meet up and dance with folk from other parts of the country that they wouldn't otherwise see very often but if this is what people want then why doesn't someone get up and organise somekind of weekend thing for dancers with no comp?????

What's that you say??

They already did and we call it Camber????(et al) and there might just be one in Scotland one day if we all pester enough???

Well guess I'll go to something like that for a look see then!!!

But seriously, IMHO everyone who decides to go and take part in a comp deserves their 15 mins (or their slow 3 mins and their fast 3 mins) and I for one think it would be a shame for the comps to try and be all things to all people if this meant reducing the comp element.

I like that they do what they say on their tins.

C
:D

Dave Hancock
30th-October-2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
The comp days are something special, they don't come around every weekend and they are meant to be something different.
I like that they do what they say on their tins.


Okay seems like I'm batting on my own on this one, let's take this arguement to it's extreme and conclusion if you end up with never-ending competitions at these days.

Do you think many people would make the effort to travel half the country if they knew that the competition lasting say 8 hours of the day would contain no freestyle. You would enter the competitions you felt able to do and that was it.

Thus someone dancing a year or two decides to be brave and enters intermediate, gets knocked out in first round, cost to them £25 entry for the day and then say £15 for the intermediate, Add into this the cost of accomodation and travel and then you end up well in excess of £100, likely to be closer to £150 or £200.

All this expense for a 5 minute heat perhaps.

What then happens is normal punters don't come, competitions are able to offer less prize money and as such don't attract the high calibre of entrants and everything goes in a downward spiral. Next most average dancers think stuff going there for a couple of hundred when I can go to Beach Boogie aqnd don't go, competition runs at a loss.

Year 3 - no competition.

Competitions are really a balancing act and if you end up with an overly large amount of showcases and caberets, say 20 showcases and 12 caberets you end up with approx 4 hours minimum of dancefloor being taken up. When you add in the other competitions you end up hitting your 8 hours of comps very easily and possibly more. Also with the floor being dominated so much just as DavidB mentioned in his previous post, people advancing through the rounds lose their touch and need time to re-warm up, thus many of the better dancers have to go away from the dancefloor to warm up and then miss out on showcases.

I think all in all it's a preety tough job to keep everyone happy, but IMO to suggest competitions are just for competition would mean that would lose a lot of their fun element and only appeal to a niche market instead of the masses.

DavidB - before you mention Australia, where I believe the emphasis is on competitions, you have to remember that the UK dancing public is very used to the current format and can be a bit fickle.

Chicklet
30th-October-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock

Do you think many people would make the effort to travel half the country if they knew that the competition lasting say 8 hours of the day would contain no freestyle. You would enter the competitions you felt able to do and that was it.

I know what you are saying and respect the opinion but I do actually believe this yes, that's exactly what N and I did last March! I don't believe everyone would go to all the comps but I do believe that lots of people do like to watch (for a change if nothing else)

I don't think it would be right to try and attract OTHER people by advertising a big amount of freestyle and then not being able to fit it in and have them disappointed.

Comp days are different - vive la difference!

Dave Hancock
30th-October-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
I know what you are saying and respect the opinion but I do actually believe this yes, that's exactly what N and I did last March! I don't believe everyone would go to all the comps but I do believe that lots of people do like to watch (for a change if nothing else)


With due respect though, you have never entered a competition and I think once you do start competing it changes the day and what you look for in it. It becomes less of a spectating event and more of an involvement day and IMO if you were going to dance you'd be put off by potentially only dancing 10 or 15 minutes over an 8 or 10 hour period.

David Franklin
30th-October-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
Okay seems like I'm batting on my own on this one, let's take this arguement to it's extreme and conclusion if you end up with never-ending competitions at these days.

Do you think many people would make the effort to travel half the country if they knew that the competition lasting say 8 hours of the day would contain no freestyle. You would enter the competitions you felt able to do and that was it.
Looking at it strictly pragmatically - it costs £10 quid or so for 3 hours of freestyle dancing (locally). Clearly going to competitions for the freestyle is not an economical approach.


Thus someone dancing a year or two decides to be brave and enters intermediate, gets knocked out in first round, cost to them £25 entry for the day and then say £15 for the intermediate, Add into this the cost of accomodation and travel and then you end up well in excess of £100, likely to be closer to £150 or £200.<sarcasm>Which is of course, far less upsetting than being the couple who have been dancing for 5 years, spent 6 months working on a routine, hired a gym to practice 2 x a week for those 6 months, spent hundreds of pounds on costumes. And then didn't make the cut and never get to perform it. </sarcasm>


All this expense for a 5 minute heat perhaps.Hey, at least they got their 5 minutes...

Any of the groups doing team cabarets want to comment on how they'd feel if their performance got cut on the day?


Competitions are really a balancing act and if you end up with an overly large amount of showcases and caberets, say 20 showcases and 12 caberets you end up with approx 4 hours minimum of dancefloor being taken up.Of course, there's something to say for efficiency. Enforce a max length of 4 minutes, be very strict about coming on and coming off, and you could keep that down a fair bit. But yes, at that level of entries, there's a problem - you either need a longer day, 2 days, or cut the maximum length quite radically. On t'other side - 12 team cabarets is probably going to be nearly 200 paying competitors, which isn't going to hurt your finances too much.


When you add in the other competitions you end up hitting your 8 hours of comps very easily and possibly more. Also with the floor being dominated so much just as DavidB mentioned in his previous post, people advancing through the rounds lose their touch and need time to re-warm up, thus many of the better dancers have to go away from the dancefloor to warm up and then miss out on showcases.Warming up for anything involing lifts is a bit of a special case - you don't need to warm up that much for freestyle. Of course, at Blackpool, they seemed to give (almost) every freestyle round a full warm up track. 30 seconds or so would have been fine, and would have saved a lot of time.


I think all in all it's a preety tough job to keep everyone happy, but IMO to suggest competitions are just for competition would mean that would lose a lot of their fun element and only appeal to a niche market instead of the masses.I think there's a distinction between the "local market" and the national one. Of the people who came up from London to Blackpool, probably < 5% came up for "fun" - the travel/accommodation costs are just too high. I suspect no freestyle during the Blackpool competition wouldn't hurt their attendance figures all that much (though I think people would organize other freestyle opportunities while there - such as the Sunday/Friday dances).

I suspect the Scotland champs had a much higher %age of people coming for "fun". But by the same token, there's much less pressure for spotlight slots amongst the "fun" crowd; I really doubt you'd get a problem with everyone wanting to do spotlights.

Side note - with several Rock Bottoms events a year, + Camber, Bognor et. al. there are a lot better places to go "for fun" than a competition IMHO

Dave

Stuart M
30th-October-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I think they could give a prize for the highest placed over 50 in the intermediate and advanced. That way there'd still be an incentive for Saga readers to enter but it wouldn't extend the time taken up by the competition.
Hadn't noticed this one when I made my earlier post, Andy. Sounds like an good idea. Could also add in a best newcomer, of course, which might provide an incentive for people to make the step up to advanced. Of course, there's policing issues, but like the Intermediate/Advanced thing, it ultimately relies on dancers' integrity.


Originally posted by Dave Hancock
With due respect though, you have never entered a competition and I think once you do start competing it changes the day and what you look for in it. It becomes less of a spectating event and more of an involvement day and IMO if you were going to dance you'd be put off by potentially only dancing 10 or 15 minutes over an 8 or 10 hour period.
From a personal point of view, if I wasn't competing I wouldn't go to a comp with no freestyle sessions. And if I was competing, I'd greatly appreciate the freestyle breaks as a chance to switch off/have a drink/dance with that wonderful lady I'd never seen before doing so well in the heat I'd just watched :) .

The comps I've been to have all generally got the balance right IMHO. Maybe Blackpool could have done with a little more freestyle, but then there were several good spotlights to watch, which made up for that. Surely ditching the freestyle periods in comps damages the participatory ethos of dancing? As someone's signature on this Forum says "Rule No.1 - dancing is fun!"

Watching dancing is less fun...

Chicklet
30th-October-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Stuart M

Watching dancing is less fun...

On this thread I have not been trying to deny that this is the case for many, just point out that for some it is NOT less fun.:D and some would (and have and will again )quite happily go (yes and spend the £200+) to watch.

Bill
30th-October-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
Also making it under 21's would mean that there would be very few entrants, given that for a variety of reasons most jive organisations have a minimum 18 year old policy in effect.

.


Which means it wouldn't take very long........................:D :wink:

Even a category for 'first timers' might not attract many folk initially as I think the majority of dancers who have thought about competing have now entered but it would be a good lead in to the Intermediate category.

I agree that Blackpool now has too many heats and especially showcases so too little time for freestyel but the comp was over by about 7.00 which meant about 4/5 hours of freestyle. Enough time for a couple more heats during the day and the finals later.

Dave Hancock
30th-October-2003, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by David Franklin
Looking at it strictly pragmatically - it costs £10 quid or so for 3 hours of freestyle dancing (locally). Clearly going to competitions for the freestyle is not an economical approach.

Agree with you on this if taken strictly economically, but if you combine freestyle and competition as is done at present then you are likely to attract more.


Originally posted by David Franklin

<sarcasm>Which is of course, far less upsetting than being the couple who have been dancing for 5 years, spent 6 months working on a routine, hired a gym to practice 2 x a week for those 6 months, spent hundreds of pounds on costumes. And then didn't make the cut and never get to perform it. </sarcasm>


Not for me to say which is more upsetting, I guess it would depend on hte individual. If you undertake such a project you should do so with your eyes open.

My arguement was that the cost may put of a lot of 'normal - not dance gods' off from competing.

Your chirlish sarcastic comeback seems to imply that just because someone invests a lot of money in a project they should be ablke to do what they like, similar to buying fame, afraid it's not a train of thought I agree with.


Originally posted by David Franklin

Hey, at least they got their 5 minutes...

:rofl: Good comeback, made me giggle.


Originally posted by David Franklin

Of course, there's something to say for efficiency. Enforce a max length of 4 minutes, be very strict about coming on and coming off, and you could keep that down a fair bit. But yes, at that level of entries, there's a problem - you either need a longer day, 2 days, or cut the maximum length quite radically. On t'other side - 12 team cabarets is probably going to be nearly 200 paying competitors, which isn't going to hurt your finances too much.


The point you concede about the level of entries and your suggestions about 2 days mirror my point made earlier about doing them the day before and don't think you can cut the time too much, because as you say there is a huge amount of outlay involved in these performances and sometimes you need a bit of time especially if you are merging 2 songs together such as the winining caberet team at Blackpool did this year.about the potential problems


Originally posted by David Franklin

Warming up for anything involing lifts is a bit of a special case - you don't need to warm up that much for freestyle. Of course, at Blackpool, they seemed to give (almost) every freestyle round a full warm up track. 30 seconds or so would have been fine, and would have saved a lot of time.

Think if you have no dance time and you're sitting out for several hours at a time then you are bound to get a bit stiff if you've been exercising earlier. Also there is only a few (if any) select people who can get up totally unprepared and dance the very first track of an evening to their highest ability.


Originally posted by David Franklin

I think there's a distinction between the "local market" and the national one. Of the people who came up from London to Blackpool, probably < 5% came up for "fun" - the travel/accommodation costs are just too high. I suspect no freestyle during the Blackpool competition wouldn't hurt their attendance figures all that much (though I think people would organize other freestyle opportunities while there - such as the Sunday/Friday dances).

I suspect the Scotland champs had a much higher %age of people coming for "fun". But by the same token, there's much less pressure for spotlight slots amongst the "fun" crowd; I really doubt you'd get a problem with everyone wanting to do spotlights.


Agree that most Londoners who came up were there to seriously compete and think it's a great shame that more didn't bother to make the trip, although Londoners are famous for their lack of wanting to travel north.

Thus the majority of your people attending things like Blackpool are local or die-hards who love to dance such as the Scots and many others from the north of England and Bristol. Take away their freestyle time and you lose many of them and it leads to the economic arguement again. Did you not feel that the fun-loving and rather noisy Scottish contingent added to Blackpool (side note to CAFG - did you enjoy London as much and was a huge amount of the fun at Blackpool not from cheering on people you knew??)??

And yes I woud like to think that the Scottish Champs had more people there for fun, like 100% of us there, as has been mentioned dance is fun.


Originally posted by David Franklin


Side note - with several Rock Bottoms events a year, + Camber, Bognor et. al. there are a lot better places to go "for fun" than a competition IMHO


I feel sorry for you David that you don't seem to find competitions fun, I've done a number of activities to a high level over the years and have stopped all of those which stopped being fun when I competed.

DavidB
30th-October-2003, 06:59 PM
I've always said that I like the balance of competitions and freestyle at the moment. If things change one way or the other, I'd be unlikely to go. I also like the fact that each competition is different - some are biased more towards freestyle, and others more towards the competitions. That lets everyone pick and choose which (if any) they want to go to.

I don't really want to see any major changes in what has made each event popular (either more comps or less comps) At most I'd be interested in one extra category, or possibly one category removed.

I'm certainly not going to spend £200 to go to a freestyle in Blackpool every year. I can dance to equally good music, and with equally good dancers, every week for £5. Alternatively I can go to Boston (USA) 2 weeks later, stay in a nice hotel, have excellent food, get 10 free workshops, and see some of the best dancers in the world, for about £400. That would be far better value for me than just another freestyle.

I wouldn't go to any freestyle that lasted so long - 4 hours is about my limit if I have to drive, 5 or 6 if I can stay somewhere local. If someone advertised a freestyle running from 1:00pm - 2:00am, I'd turn up about 8 or 9.

Neither would I suggest something like the Australian competition for Blackpool - it wouldn't be viable. The Australian dancers are more competitive and enjoy the competitions more than in the UK. There may be some things that can cross over, but not the style of the event as a whole. It is similar to why the Australian style of teaching (grading dancers, advanced workshops, etc) wouldn't work in the UK - their whole approach to dancing is different.

The events I've been to recently (Blackpool, Brighton & Hammersmith) all take the competitions and the competitors seriously. That is why they get to good dancers turning up. If you start treating the competitions as a sideshow to the freestyle ("Sorry Mr & Mrs Showcase-Couple, we have decided to cancel your event because it is too popular, and gets in the way of the freestyle") then they are not going to turn up at all.

And please don't forget that 99% of the top competitors enjoy the freestyle at the end as much as anyone else.



Originally posted by Bill
Blackpool ... the comp was over by about 7.00 which meant about 4/5 hours of freestyle. Enough time for a couple more heats during the day and the finals later.I think this is a very good idea - whether it be more heats or more freestyle during the day. It might also give the competitors a decent break (even a chance for dinner!!)


Originally posted by Stuart M
"Rule No.1 - dancing is fun!" Watching dancing is less fun... Maybe. That is why I go to 3 competitions a year, and 80+ freestyles and 100+ regular class nights.

David

PS I think it is a bit unfair on Scot to have this discussion in a thread about his competition. He made it very clear that he wanted a competition with more freestyle than other competitions, and by all accounts has run a very successful and popular competition. I'd hate anyone to think I was criticising his event.

Dave Hancock
30th-October-2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
PS I think it is a bit unfair on Scot to have this discussion in a thread about his competition. He made it very clear that he wanted a competition with more freestyle than other competitions, and by all accounts has run a very successful and popular competition. I'd hate anyone to think I was criticising his event.

I agree with you that this discussion has moved from the Scottish champs and perhaps Franck could move it.

Also I would hope that anyone reading the comments today would realise that they are not refering to the Scottish competition and more competitions in general. The majority of my thoughts have been with Blackpool and London in mind. Also I don't see any of your comments as being critical, merely stating your own opinion which is what the forum is about and I've enjoyed reading the thoughts of someone who I greatly admire as a dancer and who may see things differently from a lot of us on the forum given your ability.

David Franklin
30th-October-2003, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
Your chirlish sarcastic comeback seems to imply that just because someone invests a lot of money in a project they should be ablke to do what they like, similar to buying fame, afraid it's not a train of thought I agree with.Didn't really mean it like that, just as a contrast with your comment about the expenses for the intermediate couple. In both cases you should go in with your eyes open - but it's a much bigger decision for spotlight.


The point you concede about the level of entries and your suggestions about 2 days mirror my point made earlier about doing them the day before and don't think you can cut the time too much, because as you say there is a huge amount of outlay involved in these performances and sometimes you need a bit of time especially if you are merging 2 songs together such as the winining caberet team at Blackpool did this year.The US Open competitors seem to manage rather good (understatement) routines coming in at < 2:30. And the amount of work in a cabaret is generally fairly proportional to the length of it (Clayton/Janine said they specifically cut their routine to come out just over the minimum 3 minutes for this reason). So a shorter cabaret means less work.


I feel sorry for you David that you don't seem to find competitions fun, I've done a number of activities to a high level over the years and have stopped all of those which stopped being fun when I competed. Different meanings of "fun" (there was a reason I kept putting it in quotes). In this context, I mean people who go to an event with a particular purpose, but want to do something else because it's more "fun".

As an extreme example - I have fun at workshops, but if I went to a workshop to learn, and half the people had decided to do all the moves backwards because they thought it would be "fun", then I admit I'd actually find it pretty frustrating (if I had to partner them, anyway). (Whereas at 4am at Beach Boogie, where that sort of behaviour is normal, it might be quite entertaining).

Personally, I enjoy watching competitions, and I enjoy performing. I'm probably less keen on actually competing myself, but I try to see it as just another opportunity to perform. I've always seen the showcase as one of the highlights (and that was well before I had any ambitions to actually do one).

I can go out and dance pretty much any day of the week, but there are far fewer competitions. So when there's a competition, I'd like it to be clear that's the emphasis.

As far as Blackpool and people coming up from London, I suspect (hope) more of us will make a weekend of it this time. In fact, that's one of my points - coming up from London *will* take up a weekend, so it makes sense to make the most of it - freestyle on Friday & Sunday, competition on Saturday. Your mileage may vary... It also makes sense to facilite freestyle during the competition as well as between rounds if spare space (e.g. the separate room) is available.

Dave

Gary
31st-October-2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by DavidB

Neither would I suggest something like the Australian competition for Blackpool - it wouldn't be viable. The Australian dancers are more competitive and enjoy the competitions more than in the UK. There may be some things that can cross over, but not the style of the event as a whole. It is similar to why the Australian style of teaching (grading dancers, advanced workshops, etc) wouldn't work in the UK - their whole approach to dancing is different.


Those wacky zany Australians.

I've gotta get over to the UK sometime to see how the "scene" there is different. All the UK girls I've danced with over here have been marvellous (or better), I haven't noticed any difference at all.

Bill
31st-October-2003, 12:00 PM
The point of this thread was to take a light hearted look at the comp and to make serious or silly ideas for new categories.


Everyone has said how much fun they had and how well organised the event was but even a great event can change and develop over time.

I still like the idea of a 'first time' category as it is quite a jump from never competing to going straight to Intermediate. And as for a seniors category - well it may not be the greates of events but there are some lovely dances and I enjoyed watching the couples who did compete. Given how many dancers are now into their 40's maybe a Seniors event could be well worth watching in the near future.


Personally I would prefer more freestyle at Blackpool and did suggest to Tony last year that the first round of the spotlight could be held on the Friday night as so many folk were already there and then have a second round of about 6 couples on the Saturday. I realise that it becomes more expensive and not everyone can make it on Friday night but if they knew in advance that this was the procedure then that might also help cut down the number of entries.

LilyB
31st-October-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by gcapell
...I've gotta get over to the UK sometime to see how the "scene" there is different. OK, so when can we expect you then? :D

... All the UK girls I've danced with over here have been marvellous (or better). :cheers:

LilyB

Graham
31st-October-2003, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Dave Hancock
I would also add that I'm not in favour of such category and stuck it in merely to balance the seniors thing. In my opinion both of these take away a lot of freestyle time and add very little in terms of a spectator event. Yeah, since Brady's younger than you........ :devil:

Divissima
31st-October-2003, 02:27 PM
Lily wrote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gcapell
...I've gotta get over to the UK sometime to see how the "scene" there is different.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, so when can we expect you then?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... All the UK girls I've danced with over here have been marvellous (or better).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ditto what she said. Would be lovely to see you.
:grin: