Follower tips – MJ to AT

[David Bailey]

I thought it’d be useful to have a set of tips for followers that people have learnt, specifically dealing with the transition from MJ to AT, which may not be obvious.

Here’s some I thought of, based on dancing AT with lots of MJ-ers. All my personal opinions of course.

Take big steps: A bit counter-intuitive, as you’re normally told to take small steps when learning some dances. But in AT, you only really get a good connection when the leader can “drive” forward – and if the follower takes small steps, the leader either steps on the follower’s toes all the time, or adjusts his lead to be less dynamic – and less good. And if taking big steps means you’re off-balance, then that means you should work on your balance.

Take slow steps: In MJ, people tend to speed up to get out of trouble, and typically also transferring weight. This is exactly the wrong thing to do in AT – if in doubt, you should always stand still. Definitely no speeding up. It’s almost impossible to go too slowly in AT, but very easy to go too fast. If you're off-balance, see point 1. :whistle:

Noodly arms are Good: In AT, the handhold (man’s left, lady’s right) is pretty much there for decoration. There should be no leading from the hand, and there should be no leaning on the hand. So a nice relaxed hold is perfectly acceptable. And if you're off-balance, see point 1. :whistle:

Any other suggestions or comments?

[David Franklin]

Any other suggestions or comments?The pedant in me feels to note that there is no point 1.

Nothing that replacing a tag with [list=1] won't fix, of course...

[timbp]

I thought it’d be useful to have a set of tips for followers that people have learnt, specifically dealing with the transition from MJ to AT, which may not be obvious.

Any other suggestions or comments?

Surely you've missed the important point of don't change weight (step) unless led.

Maybe it's different in UK, but our ceroc followers are taught to keep stepping (changing weight) on every beat through all the moves.

AT followers should not change weight unless led to do so.

[Caro]

Forget everything about following your hand - follow your partner's center.

[Lory]

Wait!

[jive-vee]

All great tips but I think we also need a thread for the leaders. :flower:

At Southport many men didn't quite grasp the basics of transferring and finding your partner's weight - this lead to my toes being very sore and me eventually sitting out.

[JonD]

ceroc followers are taught to keep stepping (changing weight) on every beat through all the moves

Wait!
Great minds think alike! If I'm trying to lead MJ followers to make AT type movements the first thing that that I need is for them to be prepared to stand still: not to step/change weight on every beat. Being willing to pause - to be still and not feel that they have to do something - is so important. Something else may be happening, like in a calesita where I'm just pivoting the follower on her standing leg (perhaps she's making a nice planeo or she could just have her feet collected) but she just needs to be still and enjoy the moment.

Thinking about it, it's something a lot of experienced AT followers would benefit from remembering.

[David Bailey]

Surely you've missed the important point of don't change weight (step) unless led.
Good point, yes - that's another one to add to the list.


All great tips but I think we also need a thread for the leaders. :flower:
Absolutely - but I don't feel qualified to make any comments on that, as I've had almost no experience as a follower of MJ-ers -> AT-ers.


The pedant in me feels to note that there is no point 1.

Fixed now :wink:

[LilyB]

Surely you've missed the important point of don't change weight (step) unless led.

- snip -

AT followers should not change weight unless led to do so.

Would you be so kind as to explain how that is led?

Surely if weight changes are properly led, then there should be no problems following correctly?:whistle: Unfortunately, my personal experience is that a significant number of leaders do not (IMHO) lead weight changes properly and simply expect followers to read their minds:sick:.

Of course, if you are addressing those followers dancing with leaders who always lead perfect weight changes, then yes, your advice is spot on.

[David Bailey]

Would you be so kind as to explain how that is led?
You're very attractive when you get annoyed, did anyone ever tell you that? :devil:


Surely if weight changes are properly led, then there should be no problems following correctly?:whistle:
Weight changes - without steps - are actually quite tricky to lead. I know how to lead them. And as always with these things, I'm sure a good enough leader can lead a distinct weight-change movements, to any follower, during a fast freestyle. In fact, I know they can, because I've seen them do it. :respect:

But personally, I can only currently lead them slowly, with a very good follower, and usually in practice sessions only.

[Lory]

personally, I can only currently lead them slowly, with a very good follower, and usually in practice sessions only.

Thats not true :rolleyes:

[Lynn]

Surely you've missed the important point of don't change weight (step) unless led. This is often my downfall when MJ leaders lead AT patterns but they have learnt them in MJ or have only done a little AT. So they lead ochos and I follow, then 'wait with weight' on one foot for the next bit and they eg lead me to the right when my weight is already on my right! So I have to remember with non experienced AT leads who put a little AT into a dance, to try to have my weight on both feet, or at least be ready for a very quick weight change.

After the wait on one foot thing becoming so natural in AT, I sometimes forget!

[MartinHarper]

My personal experience is that a significant number of leaders do not (IMHO) lead weight changes properly and simply expect followers to read their minds.

Hmm.
I think my expectation is that when I am not leading weight changes, my follower will revert to the default weight change pattern for the dance we are dancing. Modern Jive and Argentine Tango have different defaults, which I think is the point Tim was making.

[Mr Cool]

[
QUOTE=timbp;451788]Surely you've missed the important point of don't change weight (step) unless led.

Im with you here 100%
Followers should wait for the mans lead the most basic requirment is for the man to know where the ladies wieght is at all times. There is little point in learning Decorations and figures until this is mastered.
Keep it simple smooth and stylish.
A wonderful Dance much misunderstood in my view.

:waycool::cheers::cheers:

[Raul]

Learn to balance on either leg, with your knees together and your back straight.

Your free leg should be loose. Although your free ankle normally "collects" just behind the other one, your leg should be free for moving in almost any direction after the leader has led you approprietely, sometimes after a pivot on the standing leg. No getting away from it you have to be on one leg in balance sometimes for a very long time while the other leg is doing all these decorations. There are very few figures where you have your weight on both feet, even for a few seconds.

It is a game of seduction. Many tango figures involve the follower passing in front of the leader and in passadas and forward ochos for example, he would lead you to step with the leg nearest to him so that your err.. crotch facing is away from him.

Again keep your knees together in boleos and ochos and if the move requires it, your ankles together. I have heard a female teacher put it quite crudely - The man will often lead figures to get the woman to open her knees and her part is to try and keep them closed.

Other valuable tips have already been mentioned e.g. Do not move without being led to move, big dramatic pauses are common to fit the musical phrasing. Never change your weight/leg without being led. Listen to the lead 100% and trust his interpretation of the music. This is 100% lead and follow, hijacking is very rare and is normally done only by very competent and confident followers at the very end of the track.

[Astro]

I have heard a female teacher put it quite crudely - The man will often lead figures to get the woman to open her knees and her part is to try and keep them closed.


Hey, she sounds a lot like my Grandmother. :whistle: