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View Full Version : Take Heed: A Story with a Moral



Amir
27th-November-2007, 01:12 PM
My computer has been ratteling for ages. I guessed it was one of the fans, but when I opened it up I couldn't see anything wrong with it. Anyway, this morning a flier drops through the door, some guy advertising local computer technical help and I though, 'I'll just call this guy, home visit, £20, get an expert in, instead of just waiting for my computer to fall over dead one day. Far more responsible, right?'

Anyway, he comes around an hour later, and obviously the computer is making no noise at all. He opens it up and looks inside. Fan looks fine, he says. It mainly rattles when it is cold, I say. He looks at it a bit longer. There is obviously nothing he can do, but he needs to justify his £20. I'll just take it out and give it a clean, he says. If it isn't brocken don't fix it, I scream, but in my head, not out loud. First mistake.

He pulls the fan out with much more force then I than this sort of precision equipment deserves, and finds that the processor chip is stuck to the bottom of the fan. That's not meant to be there, he say. He gets out a screwdriver and starts to try plie it off. My stomach is churning. After some huffing and puffing it comes off, but it doesn't seem to go back in. He pushes harder, (meanwhile, I have been cleaning the fan from dust since after taking it out he no longer seemed that interested in cleaning anything.) He puts the fan back in, turns the computer on. Nothing. He takes it out, fiddles, puts it all back in, turns the computer on. Nothing. Say something before its too late, I'm thinking. But I wait a bit longer. He takes it all out, fiddles some more, looks at the chip under a light (that I bring him) and says, the pins are bent. Must have got bent from taking it out. Oh, I say. Is it replacable? Yes, he says, I've got some at home. I'll just take this back, replace the other fan for you and the chip, and bring it back later.
Can't you just go home and bring the chip back here?
Don't you trust me?
Well, my computer was working before, and now its not. Can’t you just bend the pins back into place?
Oh no. They are far too sensitive. How long are you in for today?
Not long. I’m in a big hurry. When can you come back?
I’ll be about half an hour, he says, going to take the chip.
Why are you taking that? I say
So I can replace it.
Can’t you just remember which one it is and bring a new one?
Anyway, I finally get him out the door. I’m pacing the room, thinking about all the information on my computer that I need. Flight details. Emails. Pictures. Things I have to do today. I look at the chip. Its broken, so this is when you try fix it, I think. I get some nail scissors and bend the pins back straight. I fiddle a bit and manage to maneuver it back in its place. The fan goes in next, on top. It looks all high tech, but its not much different from that game I used to play where I had to stick a cube into a square hole, and then a cylinder into a round hole. Sometimes I tried putting the cube into the round hole, but even when I pushed real hard it wouldn’t go. I thought it was just a game but I didn’t realize I was being trained for one of the most important tests in my life. There is a weird brace thing that buckles the fan down. I put that on last. Hold my breath (or was I breathing twice as hard? its all a blur) and flick the switch.
My computer hums into action. A disc test starts up, as the bell rings and I let professional computer breaking guy back into my house. Don’t touch anything, I think. I think I’ve got it working, I say. That’s funny, he says. We stand there for a while looking at the computer doing its disk test, he’s mumbling about getting on with changing the other fan. I’m wondering how much to pay him, if anything.
How about I pay you £20 and we leave it at that.
Ok, he says. Are you sure you don’t want me to change the fan.
No, I say. I think I’ll just leave it.
Call me when you’re in less of a rush and want to change it.
Ok, I say. Not if all the emails in the world depended on it, I think.
I see him out. My world feels safe again.

Later on I see him pacing up and down my street, looking not that happy. I feel a little sorry for him, but not much.

straycat
27th-November-2007, 01:19 PM
:eek::eek::eek:
This story feels almost like the computer equivalent of the shower scene from Psycho.

They should have kept the death penalty for this kind of thing.

David Franklin
27th-November-2007, 01:32 PM
He wasn't wearing a purple shirt, by any chance?

killingtime
27th-November-2007, 01:33 PM
Must have got bent from taking it out. Oh, I say. Is it replacable? Yes, he says, I've got some at home. I'll just take this back, replace the other fan for you and the chip, and bring it back later.
Can't you just go home and bring the chip back here?

So it was your CPU fan then? The processor will sometimes come off with the fan as the epoxy resin (that helps take the heat from the processor away) sticks it with the fan. I can't believe he bent the pins the process though. Anyway make sure if he replaces your processor that you get one that's at least the same (so if it was a 2.4GHz Athlon 64 that you get another one of those).

Fans can sometimes make a grinding noise when they are cold as they are yet to expand. If it goes on for more than a few minutes then it might indicate a bigger issue.

Sorry to hear that things didn't go well at all.

Dreadful Scathe
27th-November-2007, 01:39 PM
Anyway, he comes around an hour later, and obviously the computer is making no noise at all. He opens it up and looks inside. Fan looks fine, he says. It mainly rattles when it is cold, I say. He looks at it a bit longer. There is obviously nothing he can do, but he needs to justify his £20.

Could have been the PSU fan of course, or the gfx card if you have a separate card that has a fan that is.

Don't see why he felt he needed to justify the £20 - thats what a call out fee is FOR surely. A plumber would have no problem charging you call out if theres nothing he can do.


He pulls the fan out with much more force then I than this sort of precision equipment deserves, and finds that the processor chip is stuck to the bottom of the fan. That's not meant to be there, he say.

eh ? Of course it is. Theres probably too much thermal paste on it but the cpu often sticks to the fan/heatsink because of it.


He gets out a screwdriver and starts to try plie it off.

*** ? a SCREWDRIVER ?? erk


After some huffing and puffing it comes off, but it doesn't seem to go back in.

So if he had the cpu and fan/heatsink seperated - did he have thermal paste ready to reapply ? Was he trying to put the cpu back in with no heatsink attached ?


He pushes harder

cpus only go in one way - anyone who has ever been inside a PC before knows that if it doesn't go in easily its either a) the wrong way round b) something, like a bent pin, is stopping it going in


He puts the fan back in, turns the computer on.

Ah...so no paste then?


and says, the pins are bent. Must have got bent from taking it out.

er...no - they're bent from being pushed against the cpu slot the wrong way.


Oh, I say. Is it replacable? Yes, he says, I've got some at home. I'll just take this back, replace the other fan for you and the chip, and bring it back later.
Can't you just go home and bring the chip back here?
Don't you trust me?
Well, my computer was working before, and now its not.

As long as he's replacing a like-for-like fair enough but don't actually PAY him anything. In fact if he takes too long I'd expect some compensation for time without a working computer.

The home PC service is FULL of people who have built a machine or 2 without understanding it, and think that means they can charge money to help others - better off with professionals like geek squad (http://www.geeksquad.co.uk/)

straycat
27th-November-2007, 02:07 PM
Ah...so no paste then?

:yeah:

Well done on getting it sorted (I think you picked the wisest course of action, - other than paying him for breaking your machine)

Having read the whole version now, you might want to be having a look at that. If (as a result of the fan being prised off then re-attached) there isn't enough contact between CPU and fan (which is where the paste comes in normally) the fan may no longer be doing its job of drawing heat away from the CPU. If this is the case, there could now be a danger that your CPU will overheat. Might be worth getting some paste, removing the fan again, applying paste in ways that someone more expert than I (DS?) will describe and replacing the fan - if only for your own peace of mind (which I hope I haven't just destroyed :whistle:)

David Franklin
27th-November-2007, 02:14 PM
Having read the whole version now, you might want to be having a look at that. If (as a result of the fan being prised off then re-attached) there isn't enough contact between CPU and fan (which is where the paste comes in normally) the fan may no longer be doing its job of drawing heat away from the CPU. If this is the case, there could now be a danger that your CPU will overheat. Might be worth getting some paste, removing the fan again, applying paste in ways that someone more expert than I (DS?) will describe and replacing the fan - if only for your own peace of mind (which I hope I haven't just destroyed :whistle:)As far as peace of mind goes, you could always run one of the CPU temp monitoring programs such as Core Temp v0.9.0.91 (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1494) - although I don't have experience with it myself.

killingtime
27th-November-2007, 02:49 PM
as the epoxy resin (that helps take the heat from the processor away)


Ah...so no paste then?

Thermal paste, that's what I meant. Not epoxy resin at all. What a geek faux pas I just committed. I'm off to go hang my head in shame.

Dreadful Scathe
27th-November-2007, 02:51 PM
Might be worth getting some paste, removing the fan again, applying paste in ways that someone more expert than I (DS?) will describe and replacing the fan

I was replying to Amirs original half posted version of the post - now i see how it was resolved. He didn't deserve any payment but its nice to be nice, and maybe the PC guy learnt something...

As for paste, the local maplins will sell you thermal paste for a few pound. Here is a guide (http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/134) on what it is and how to put it on. the article is 3 pages long so skip to the important bits... which are - cleaning old paste off, applying new paste.

thats pretty much it. the reason for paste is simply to get a better transference of heat away from the cpu into the heatsink and fan.

note:
You're unlikely to be doing any damage by not having the paste, the fan/heatsink being attached will cool the cpu regardless, it just won't be doing it as well. And the only reason I brought it up is because a PC repair man should know something as basic as this.

Dreadful Scathe
27th-November-2007, 02:53 PM
Thermal paste, that's what I meant. Not epoxy resin at all. What a geek faux pas I just committed. I'm off to go hang my head in shame.

I wasn't going to mention it :) I assumed it was a brain crosswire you had :)

Vegetable
27th-November-2007, 03:31 PM
WORD OF WARNING,

You have taken the processor off the fan and now the paste will not do the job it was intended after removing it will have messed the paste up, i would look into putting some new paste on there if u dont ur prossesor will probably burn out and u dont want that...

O and he probs wanted ur processor so he could replace it with a crap one and keep yours....

P.s u cant lose anthing thing on ur pc as long as ur harddrive is safe


SORRY JUS READ DREADS REPLY FOLLOW THAT... (took 2 long 2 finish my reply lol)

Ghost
27th-November-2007, 04:27 PM
Um am I the only one thinking

"Take it to a proper Computer Repair shop"? Pay them money. Get them to
a) Make sure you haven't done anything wrong
b) Fix the original problem

Computers basically are just very expensive versions of lego - but there are some annoying details like being grounded etc.

Pay a professional - then back up your data :flower:
(Actually back-up your data first - paranoia is a good survivial trait ;) )

Dreadful Scathe
27th-November-2007, 04:33 PM
Um am I the only one thinking

no, cos i already said that :)

Beowulf
27th-November-2007, 04:38 PM
Thermal paste, that's what I meant. Not epoxy resin at all. What a geek faux pas I just committed. I'm off to go hang my head in shame.


I wasn't going to mention it :) I assumed it was a brain crosswire you had :)

:yeah: Although you did have me choking on my coffee when I read that !! :really: :rofl:

I always use Arctic Silver 5 when I build a PC.. the thermal dissipation rate is great.. I certainly don't do what some proponents of PC building / overclocking used to do and suggest you polish the CPU Die :eek: No slap on a pea sized lump of thermal paste and bobs your uncle. Although in the past the thermal paste can adhere the heatsink to the Processor so a LITTLE force is SOMETIMES required. Prising with a screwdriver though? That made my green geek blood curdle !!

I feel for Amir though.. Sounds like he got a right cowboy.. Ouch!

I think a lot of people look inside a PC and are daunted and scared. The thing to remember it's just like a big lego kit. Once you realise that, with proper precautions, it's very hard to do things wrong then it's fairly easy to build/upgrade/fix your own PC. Not only do you save money* you get the satisfaction of a job well done.

*admittedly some home build PC's end up more expensive than the pre-build ones.. but then you're usually using better components to begin with.

Ghost
28th-November-2007, 04:02 PM
no, cos i already said that :)
Ah I read


The home PC service is FULL of people who have built a machine or 2 without understanding it, and think that means they can charge money to help others - better off with professionals like geek squad
as "do this next time" whereas I meant "Do this now, before the darn thing blows up"

Edit - Also with all due respect to Amir, he's probably better off taking it straight to professionals and not risking any further damage by doing DIY on it himself

martingold
29th-November-2007, 03:31 PM
Ah I read


as "do this next time" whereas I meant "Do this now, before the darn thing blows up"

Edit - Also with all due respect to Amir, he's probably better off taking it straight to professionals and not risking any further damage by doing DIY on it himself
problem in a lot of cases is deciding which "professionals" to trust after all anyone can set themselves up as "professionals" pc world do it all the time

i would leave it alone now certainly wouldn't allow the guy who broke it in the first place anywhere near my house

Amir if you are worried surely you know someone who can help you with it as a dancer someone in your group will know how to check it for you I know among the people i dance with regularly we will always help one another if anyone needs anything

Dreadful Scathe
29th-November-2007, 03:38 PM
i say nuke the computer from orbit....

<cue>

killingtime
29th-November-2007, 03:41 PM
i say nuke the computer from orbit....

<cue>

...it's the only way to be sure.

Ghost
29th-November-2007, 03:44 PM
problem in a lot of cases is deciding which "professionals" to trust after all anyone can set themselves up as "professionals" pc world do it all the time
"First we try then we trust" ~ Entrapment

Someone once told me it's a good idea to know a good plumber, a good lawyer and a good electrician.

There's a small PC shop round the corner from me that's been open for years. First I asked them for some advice about upgrades - checked it with other friends who do this for a living. Got them to put in a sound card. Got them to upgrade my computer etc etc.

Sooner or later something will go wrong. It's a good idea to have someone to go to already in place, especially if your PC is an important part of your life.

martingold
29th-November-2007, 03:56 PM
"First we try then we trust" ~ Entrapment

Someone once told me it's a good idea to know a good plumber, a good lawyer and a good electrician.

There's a small PC shop round the corner from me that's been open for years. First I asked them for some advice about upgrades - checked it with other friends who do this for a living. Got them to put in a sound card. Got them to upgrade my computer etc etc.

Sooner or later something will go wrong. It's a good idea to have someone to go to already in place, especially if your PC is an important part of your life.
Unfortunately as others have said here the computer professional is similar to a professional in any field that a layman has to hire
first the layman doesnt know what needs to be done
second the layman doesnt know that the pro is doing the job in the correct way
and thirdly the layman doesnt know if the pro is charging him / her the correct amount for the said job

sadly in all cases its a minefield

as an analogy i am an industrial electrician dealing with anything from 400 to 11000 volts in the factory with some serious control gear and computerised machinery. laymen expect me to be an expert in house electrics where one i dont have the legal qualifications (part p of the builders regulations) and two i am not experienced (obviously i know the basics) therefore i dont do domestic work


i say nuke the computer from orbit....

<cue>
the professional or the computer??????? :D

Ghost
29th-November-2007, 04:09 PM
Unfortunately as others have said here the computer professional is similar to a professional in any field that a layman has to hire
first the layman doesnt know what needs to be done
second the layman doesnt know that the pro is doing the job in the correct way
and thirdly the layman doesnt know if the pro is charging him / her the correct amount for the said job

sadly in all cases its a minefield

True, I've been fairly lucky - 3 competent people, one cowboy; but to me that means work out how to minimise your risks rather than hoping you'll never need them.

By asking them what they'd recommend you can check that with others

By asking them for quotes you can compare that with others

By getting them to do something small, you get to see whether they do it on time; does it work; did the costs change

Ask friends for recommendations.

Not unlike figuring out who to ask for a Private Tuition....