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View Full Version : Is Funky R&B in Chill/Blues rooms killing the Tango play?



Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 01:01 PM
As a keen Tango dancer I have enjoyed playing with Tango in the Blues/Chill out rooms over the last 3 years.

I have noticed a rapidly growing trend for DJs to play more & more R&B funky tunes in these rooms over the last year. Obviously this suits the Westies and don't get me wrong, I enjoy WCS and this kind of music, but because of this change the possiblity to play with Tango in this enviroment is in decline.:sad:

I always used to promote the fact that it is possible to Tango to most music, Swing, Blues, Jazz, Latin, Acoustic, soft rock, etc. But the distinctive beat of most modern R&B does not feel right at all.

So come on DJs...don't kill the Tango dancers.

robd
21st-November-2007, 01:08 PM
Hopefully.

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 01:15 PM
Hopefully.

:really: That seems a selfish point of view. what do you have a against Tango?

Variety is tha spice of life.

TheTramp
21st-November-2007, 01:18 PM
Hopefully.

:yeah:

TheTramp
21st-November-2007, 01:21 PM
:really: That seems a selfish point of view.

If you can tango to everything except the funky R&B, that should still leave plenty of tracks for you to tango to in an evening. Shouldn't it? Or are all the tracks funky R&B now?


what do you have a against Tango?

Variety is tha spice of life.

Ummm. Nothing. Except the latin-type music! :na:

ducasi
21st-November-2007, 01:24 PM
I always used to promote the fact that it is possible to Tango to most music, Swing, Blues, Jazz, Latin, Acoustic, soft rock, etc. But the distinctive beat of most modern R&B does not feel right at all.
If you can do tango to all these other styles when they're played, how can you complain about a little bit of the more funky stuff?

Rather that getting all huffy that you can't do Tango, you could try to do a bit of MJ on the MJ dance floor.

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 01:31 PM
If you can tango to everything except the funky R&B, that should still leave plenty of tracks for you to tango to in an evening. Shouldn't it? Or are all the tracks funky R&B now?

You would be surprised. At recent events I have only heard to odd track that inspired me to play with Tango. That was not the case a year ago. Don't worry though, I am evolving by developing my WCSango:wink:


Ummm. Nothing. Except the latin-type music! :na:

:confused: Sorry Steve...you lost me on that one???

Sheepman
21st-November-2007, 01:46 PM
I've a feeling that it's mostly a case of playing what the customers want. The last Utopia I made it to (in June) felt like it was wall to wall modern RnB. (I hesitate to call it funky, because much of it has nothing funky about it.) The earlier events I enjoyed much more, with a wider range of music that I could dance a range of styles to.
There is at least one event :whistle: where you can still get a wide range of chilled music, but nowadays the Jango t-jives do seem to mostly appeal to those who just want lots of tango.

Greg

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 01:49 PM
If you can do tango to all these other styles when they're played, how can you complain about a little bit of the more funky stuff?

Rather that getting all huffy that you can't do Tango, you could try to do a bit of MJ on the MJ dance floor.

Rude as always Ducasi :angry:

Actually...I do try to Jive, WCS and dare I mention that dreaded word....yeah why not...Salsa....

Do I tell you how to dance.

Genie
21st-November-2007, 01:55 PM
Sugarfoot, Tramp was responding to your "what do you have a against Tango?"


If you can tango to everything except the funky R&B, that should still leave plenty of tracks for you to tango to in an evening. Shouldn't it? Or are all the tracks funky R&B now?

Hopefully :p

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 01:59 PM
I've a feeling that it's mostly a case of playing what the customers want. The last Utopia I made it to (in June) felt like it was wall to wall modern RnB. (I hesitate to call it funky, because much of it has nothing funky about it.) The earlier events I enjoyed much more, with a wider range of music that I could dance a range of styles to.
There is at least one event :whistle: where you can still get a wide range of chilled music, but nowadays the Jango t-jives do seem to mostly appeal to those who just want lots of tango.

Greg

I agree with what you are saying Greg. It is a shame that the range of styles has become less. I guess this is what happened to swing before. It is the music that determines dance styles and I guess trends change.

Genie
21st-November-2007, 01:59 PM
I don't mind a healthy mix, but I must admit I agree with Trampy. Latin music is ok in very small doses. But whole evenings of it :eek:

I don't know if blues is killing off tango stuff, but as the question was aimed at us, it should be ok if someone says 'hopefully'. After all, just because we don't like it much does not mean we cannot dance it.

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 02:10 PM
I don't mind a healthy mix, but I must admit I agree with Trampy. Latin music is ok in very small doses. But whole evenings of it :eek:

I don't know if blues is killing off tango stuff, but as the question was aimed at us, it should be ok if someone says 'hopefully'. After all, just because we don't like it much does not mean we cannot dance it.

Hmm...it seems that you and Tampy think that it has to be Latin for Tango. This could be part of the problem. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any DJs (myself excluded) (maybe Greg) that dance Tango...so I guess it is harder for them to have an understanding of the possibilities. I feel an example playlist is in order to demonstrate how it is possible to please mosts tastes.

No time right now...will do later.

robd
21st-November-2007, 02:11 PM
:really: That seems a selfish point of view. what do you have a against Tango?

Variety is tha spice of life.

Nothing against it other than I get very bored by my own limitations when dancing it and I much prefer listening to Modern R&B than pretty much any music that would be labelled as 'tango'. My 'hopefully' was a bit tongue in cheek.

maybe the demise of 'Funky Lush' speaks volumes about the appetite for a lot of tango music at an event aimed principally at MJ dancers?

Sheepman
21st-November-2007, 02:17 PM
I don't mind a healthy mix, but I must admit I agree with Trampy. Latin music is ok in very small doses. But whole evenings of it :eek:

I don't know if blues is killing off tango stuff I think you've missed the point that Sugarfoot is making. Lots of blues music is fine to tango to, as well as swing, R&B, ballads, jazz ... It's where a chillout room plays only modern RnB that the variety disappears. I certainly don't want a whole evening of latin, just as I don't want a whole evening of modern RnB. I don't really want a whole evening of tango music either, but for many that is the only option for learning & practicing tango.

Greg

ducasi
21st-November-2007, 02:18 PM
Rude as always Ducasi :angry:

Actually...I do try to Jive, WCS and dare I mention that dreaded word....yeah why not...Salsa....

Do I tell you how to dance.
I try my best. :flower:

You may not be telling me how to dance, but you are telling DJ's not to play the music I want to dance to, just so you can tango. I suggest going to a tango event if you want to tango.

Genie
21st-November-2007, 02:23 PM
Ok, I see where you are coming from now. And I do understand, as I've danced with a Tango-lead to random things like Muse before and it worked just fine (in fact, it was quite mmmmmm).

So do people who dance Tango dislike RnB so much because they can't Tango to it? Or because they don't/can't dance RnB?

And is the increase in RnB stuff because more people like it and can dance to it than can Tango, or is it a DJ favouritism thing?

Sheepman
21st-November-2007, 02:27 PM
So do people who dance Tango dislike RnB so much because they can't Tango to it? Or because they don't/can't dance RnB? I love lots of RnB, after all, I've been doing WCS much longer than I've been doing Jango or tango. I still don't want it all night though, even if I'm at a WCS event.

Greg

David Bailey
21st-November-2007, 02:34 PM
Hmm...it seems that you and Tampy think that it has to be Latin for Tango. This could be part of the problem.
:yeah:
"Latin" is not "Tango" :rolleyes:

In fact "Latin" is a stupid name anyway.


Off the top of my head, I can't think of any DJs (myself excluded) (maybe Greg) that dance Tango...
Me neither - unless Lazy Dave does DJ-ing?


so I guess it is harder for them to have an understanding of the possibilities. I feel an example playlist is in order to demonstrate how it is possible to please mosts tastes.
Absolutely. There's as much Tango variation as there is for most other genres - and certainly certainly more than some - for example, salsa.

I'd love to see a AT list including vals, milonga, fast-style nuevo, and so on. Milonga-style tracks should be completely MJ-able.

Lynn
21st-November-2007, 02:35 PM
I think the popularity of DJs like Marc and Tiggerbabe, who manage to have latiny/blues/tangoy/funky playlists show that people do want variety. Usually something in there for everyone.:respect:

Personally I'm noticing a reduction in more bluesy stuff being played at the expense of R&B. I like the R&B stuff, but a lot of it does give a strong flavour to a dance and require a different sort of 'connection' with my partner than I find I experience with more bluesy or tangoy tracks.

Sometimes I want to be 'funky' (that's not really the word I'm looking for but it'll do) and be doing playful syncopations, sharper movements and 'you play, I play' with my partner. Other times I just want to flow and melt into a soft hold with smooth mellow tunes.

Variety please!

ducasi
21st-November-2007, 02:35 PM
I love lots of RnB, after all, I've been doing WCS much longer than I've been doing Jango or tango. I still don't want it all night though, even if I'm at a WCS event.
Are there really events where you get "funky RnB" all night long to the exclusion of all else?

Any in Scotland? :innocent:

Rocky
21st-November-2007, 02:43 PM
The music a DJ plays and what people remember of a night rarely bear any relationship to each other and that's something that always fascinates (and annoys me...)

At the last UTOPIA I played an hour and a half set that comprised of 5 funk/soul style tracks, 4 latin style, 1 out and out tango track, 3 swing blues, 4 Modern R&B and 3 slowish blues tracks, 2 old style R&B and 1 track that defies pigeon holing, and mixed them all up, and yet the response was that it was ALL funk!

Likewise we NEVER play a predominance of modern R&B because it can be difficult to dance to unless you West Coast or adapt your blues style, and yet we're sometimes accused of just playing modern R&B...:whistle:

As regards Tango style tracks, I'm afraid the feedback we get from dancers and also then from watching the floor, appears to show that most people don't seem to like them.

The feeling for a set of music is one of those things that changes with your mood, so I think peoples perceptions of a night are often based on their own mindset for the evening, who they dance with and the limitations of their own dance style.

That said, Sugarfoot IS a great dancer and seems to adapt to many styles of music easily, and of course I can see why modern R&B wouldn't be an easy fit with Tango. But my personal experience of many Chill Out nights and weekenders is that it's still in the minority of music that is played throughout a night.

The other trouble is that whereas out and out modern R&B is relatively easy to define, we see more and more styles of music that are a crossover between a variety of other styles. This then comes down to personal iterpretation where one person's interpretation of a track's musical style may then be different to someone elses.

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 02:44 PM
I try my best. :flower:

You may not be telling me how to dance, but you are telling DJ's not to play the music I want to dance to, just so you can tango. I suggest going to a tango event if you want to tango.

:really: I suggest you take the time to read. I never said that at all. I am asking for a bit more balance. The last event I was at was almost 80% R&B. There is a huge selection of music out there. As a DJ I know how easy it is to find new R&B tracks compared to other generes. I guess this also has some sway on current trends. I also don't see R&B as very Blues/Chill out???, but I don't mind a bit as a variety.

I will repeat...just for you....I do like R&B it was my fav music before I got into social dancing. I just feel it is being over done at present.

David Bailey
21st-November-2007, 02:47 PM
Actually, thinking about it, I've gone off the Blues / COZ rooms over the past year, mostly. With some honorable exceptions, they seem to be a bit bland, and not the sort of music I find interesting so much now.

Perhaps that's because of the Ceroc-led efforts to (depending on your point of view) dilute the music / make it more accessible, or perhaps it's because everyone thinks WCS is The New Cool Thing, or possibly that reflects my changing tastes. Or maybe all three.

But I don't feel "left out" or anything - unlike WCS, there's an extremely healthy and growing AT scene, which luckily for me is exceptionally vibrant in North London. Similarly, there are several good (and lots of mediocre) salsa venues close by, some in walking distance even.

So as I'm getting more comfortable with AT, I'm now going to AT events, and dancing AT there - frankly, it's usually too much effort to try to educate an MJ-er into the joys of tango, just to get a dance out of them whenever Gotan gets played.

All this means that I'm rediscovering the joys of just "bopping about" to mainstream MJ, to a degree. I may do it Jango-style, I may do it salsa-style, or I may do it any other style. It's all good.

Like sugarfoot, I can dance MJ, I can dance salsa, and I can (start to) dance AT. At the moment, I'm really not worried about whether a particular room plays a particular style of music - if I don't like it at one place, there are literally dozens of other dance venues I can try within 20 minutes' drive.


I always used to promote the fact that it is possible to Tango to most music, Swing, Blues, Jazz, Latin, Acoustic, soft rock, etc. But the distinctive beat of most modern R&B does not feel right at all.
That sounds like a challenge to me... :devil:

David Bailey
21st-November-2007, 02:50 PM
As regards Tango style tracks, I'm afraid the feedback we get from dancers and also then from watching the floor, appears to show that most people don't seem to like them.
Seems plausible. Tango is difficult. Dancing to MJ to a standard AT track - slow nuevo or classical bloody bandoneon - is also difficult - it almost forces you to dance AT. Dancing MJ to a WCS-style track is much less difficult.

Miguel
21st-November-2007, 02:51 PM
I feel an example playlist is in order to demonstrate how it is possible to please mosts tastes.

I did a quick Google search for Funky Tango Music and found these two interesting New Tango sites: flux (http://www.plastictango.com/flux/flux.php) and Neotango (http://www.neotango.de/) Not bad music, especially flux but it won't attract anyone for more than an hour. However play good contemporary RnB music and people will be dancing day and night. Isn't that the goal?

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 03:00 PM
The music a DJ plays and what people remember of a night rarely bear any relationship to each other and that's something that always fascinates (and annoys me...)

At the last UTOPIA I played an hour and a half set that comprised of 5 funk/soul style tracks, 4 latin style, 1 out and out tango track, 3 swing blues, 4 Modern R&B and 3 slowish blues tracks, 2 old style R&B and 1 track that defies pigeon holing, and mixed them all up, and yet the response was that it was ALL funk!

Likewise we NEVER play a predominance of modern R&B because it can be difficult to dance to unless you West Coast or adapt your blues style, and yet we're sometimes accused of just playing modern R&B...:whistle:

As regards Tango style tracks, I'm afraid the feedback we get from dancers and also then from watching the floor, appears to show that most people don't seem to like them.

The feeling for a set of music is one of those things that changes with your mood, so I think peoples perceptions of a night are often based on their own mindset for the evening, who they dance with and the limitations of their own dance style.

That said, Sugarfoot IS a great dancer and seems to adapt to many styles of music easily, and of course I can see why modern R&B wouldn't be an easy fit with Tango. But my personal experience of many Chill Out nights and weekenders is that it's still in the minority of music that is played throughout a night.

The other trouble is that whereas out and out modern R&B is relatively easy to define, we see more and more styles of music that are a crossover between a variety of other styles. This then comes down to personal iterpretation where one person's interpretation of a track's musical style may then be different to someone elses.

A good well thought out response Rocky. I agree with most of what you have said.

I will try to adapt and have fun what ever music is playing. Before coming to Utopia I knew what to expect with the music. The music attracts those that like it and your audience appreciates what you do. I would not expect (although I would like) much music to Tango to at Utopia. Although I was asked to Tango by several lovely ladies in most cases, I had to decline and offer them my best version of WCS or take them back to my old clubing days. All good fun.

There is an old saying "fasion dictates form"

If we make R&B, funk, jazz etc the fashion then a dance style will form.

Judging by our classes there are still a lot out there that want to put Tango into their dancing. They complain that they do not get the music these days. On that score...I have to agree with them.

A playlist still pending.

TheTramp
21st-November-2007, 03:09 PM
Hmm...it seems that you and Trampy think that it has to be Latin for Tango.

Nope. But I've never been anywhere where it's been all funky R&B all night. Which means that there will be some tracks you can dance tango to, if as you say, you can dance it to most things. Isn't that enough for you?

And, I guess that I don't really have anything against tango. What I said was mostly tongue in cheek. Variety is always good. I do particularly dislike it when any DJ doesn't play a decent variety - even when they're playing all tracks that I like.

TheTramp
21st-November-2007, 03:12 PM
Seems plausible. Tango is difficult. Dancing to MJ to a standard AT track - slow nuevo or classical bloody bandoneon - is also difficult - it almost forces you to dance AT.

Actually, no. I just don't like them :D

TheTramp
21st-November-2007, 03:13 PM
That said, Sugarfoot IS a great dancer


A good well thought out response Rocky. I agree with most of what you have said.

Presumably except for this bit!! :wink:

David Bailey
21st-November-2007, 03:15 PM
Actually, no. I just don't like them :D
Philistine :na:

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 03:16 PM
Presumably except for this bit!! :wink:

Ah....vanity...it gets me every time.:wink:

David Bailey
21st-November-2007, 03:31 PM
To answer the original question - no, it's not killing the Tango play, it's just a fashion at the moment. Fashions change.

Marc Forster
21st-November-2007, 03:34 PM
I do feel that quality Tango tracks with an MJ crossover appeal are rare. There are only a handful of artists supporting the genre which like it or not, makes it difficult to maintain an impact within a scene dominated by new material.

I love the Pink Martini stuff more than the vast majority of the R&B tracks on the circuit, but am well aware that new music has a greater impact compared to tried and tested favorites.

Needless to say, I am keeping an eye on the Tango scene and completely understand why Tango and MJ merge so well. Tango should be supported, not only because dancers benefit from the fundamental techniques within the traditional dance style, but because it stretches the limitations of what Modern Jive should be. I like the analogy of building bridges, bringing styles and ideas closer together.

By default, Tango aligns itself to the title of main room music. The majority of cross over tracks are high in tempo and this has had a massive impact on what is acceptable. Certain songs once considered back room are now the property of the main room DJ. The boundaries are changing.

There is little room for growth under these circumstances. Personally, I will continue to support the Tango scene, realizing that variety is the spice of life and that it's important not to get too caught up in the next big thing.

I hope that down the line when we get to the point when Blues and R&B are under the spotlight in a potentially negative way, we support and maintain a solid structure that appreciates the ideals and protects the structure in the same way that I support Tango within todays Modern Jive scene.

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 03:37 PM
Which means that there will be some tracks you can dance tango to, if as you say, you can dance it to most things. Isn't that enough for you?

We have made it business to dance fusion Tango to most music. Obviously some is better than others. I dance for the music. Most of what I here in the blues/chill rooms these days makes me want to WCS. I am sure those with less Tango experience than us are finding it even harder.

A year ago a Southport...a chilled track would come on in the blues room and you could see quite a few playing with or dancing Tango. At the last event I struggled to see anyone doing this. It was not that there was no music for it; it was just much less of it. The mood was not there.

I guess it is like when Mandy has been dancing more up beat, jazzy etc. When I grab her for a Tango to a more chilled track it does not quite happen. It takes a bit of time to settle for different dance styles/partners. Often you get one suitable track and then its off again to somthing else.

I know it is hard as a DJ. You feel the need to follow the mood of the room, but DJs also make the room what it is. I feel a good DJ has to subtly educate the dancers as well as provide what they want.

Rocky
21st-November-2007, 03:40 PM
There is a huge selection of music out there. As a DJ I know how easy it is to find new R&B tracks compared to other generes. .

I actually disagree with this... there is tons of R&B out there but most of it is rubbish! Like latin style music it's one of those that does your head in when you're searching for tracks, so finding good modern R&B is IMO very difficult.

That's also why I can be absolutely adamant that at UTOPIA we don't play a predominance of it as this style makes up less than 10% of my music collection.

I do think it's down to classification though. As an example take 'Represent Cuba' - Orishas Feat Heather Headley. I classify this as a Latin track but there's no getting away from the fact it has a modern R&B feel to it.. But again having said that, it is also a great slow dancing track and I've had many a great slow dance to this without resorting to WCS style or Latin style footwork.

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 03:46 PM
I do feel that quality Tango tracks with an MJ crossover appeal are rare. There are only a handful of artists supporting the genre which like it or not, makes it difficult to maintain an impact within a scene dominated by new material.

I love the Pink Martini stuff more than the vast majority of the R&B tracks on the circuit, but am well aware that new music has a greater impact compared to tried and tested favorites.

Needless to say, I am keeping an eye on the Tango scene and completely understand why Tango and MJ merge so well. Tango should be supported, not only because dancers benefit from the fundamental techniques within the traditional dance style, but because it stretches the limitations of what Modern Jive should be. I like the analogy of building bridges, bringing styles and ideas closer together.

By default, Tango aligns itself to the title of main room music. The majority of cross over tracks are high in tempo and this has had a massive impact on what is acceptable. Certain songs once considered back room are now the property of the main room DJ. The boundaries are changing.

There is little room for growth under these circumstances. Personally, I will continue to support the Tango scene, realizing that variety is the spice of life and that it's important not to get too caught up in the next big thing.

I hope that down the line when we get to the point when Blues and R&B are under the spotlight in a potentially negative way, we support and maintain a solid structure that appreciates the ideals and protects the structure in the same way that I support Tango within todays Modern Jive scene.

:clap:Nicely put Marc. You are one of the very few DJs that appreciates the Tango needs whilst still pleasing others.

I agree...it can be harder to find suitable crossover music without putting off Jivers. I still think there is enough out there to add spice & colour to any blues/chill room. You are right though...so much that was for the blues/chill room is now in the main room. Times they art a changing.

David Bailey
21st-November-2007, 03:48 PM
As an example take 'Represent Cuba' - Orishas Feat Heather Headley. I classify this as a Latin track but there's no getting away from the fact it has a modern R&B feel to it.
It's R&B Salsa, I'd say. The DJ at Oakwood used to play this all the time as the salsa cooldown track after the class, and I've heard other salsa DJs play it.

It's a good track - overplayed now, but then there's so little decent salsa music, it's hardly surprising that the first half-decent track that comes along gets jumped on.

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 03:55 PM
I actually disagree with this... there is tons of R&B out there but most of it is rubbish! Like latin style music it's one of those that does your head in when you're searching for tracks, so finding good modern R&B is IMO very difficult.

OK....I understand that. Having to much can be as hard as to little to sort through. It is at least easier to classify. Most Latin is completly unsuitable. I am more likely to find someting acoustic than Latin. Trad Tango won't work at all and the electronic Gotan kind of stuff can either be right out there or to samey.

Interestingly...some of the more downbeat softer material for WCS is very suitabe. B-Tribe -Sometimes is a good eg of this. When they played it at Cat's WCS Wed, all I wanted to do was Tango.

Cruella
21st-November-2007, 04:05 PM
When they played it at Cat's WCS Wed, all I wanted to do was Tango.

Oooh, you should have, to see if you got a telling off. :wink:

Lory
21st-November-2007, 04:49 PM
Variety is always good. I do particularly dislike it when any DJ doesn't play a decent variety - even when they're playing all tracks that I like.:yeah: Too much of 'any' good thing can be bad!:cool:

I'll be interested to see how I feel at S'funk on Friday. This is the kind of music I used to listen to and dance to all the time before I discovered partner dancing (I even used to go to Soul and Funk weekenders) but its a long time since I've spent an entire evening dancing to this stuff. :blush:

Since I started MJ, I've also done Tango, WCS, Salsa, Blues and Ballroom. So, I've been exposed to many different kinds of genre, some of which I totally detested when I first heard them (Tango especially:sick:) but my tastes have changed and broadened :waycool: and more than anything else, its the 'differences' and 'contrasts', that make a good evening for me!:yeah:

That's one of the reasons doing a whole night of Salsa drives me nuts. I like the music for a little while, then suddenly, I've had enough :tears:... I even have to prepare an antidote, ready and waiting in my car, for the journey home! :rofl:


Tango should be supported, not only because dancers benefit from the fundamental techniques within the traditional dance style, but because it stretches the limitations of what Modern Jive should be. I like the analogy of building bridges, bringing styles and ideas closer together.

:yeah: And likewise, the other genre's should also be supported too! :)(with the exception of fast swing of course! :devil::whistle:)

Rachel
21st-November-2007, 05:04 PM
I miss the tango music too!!!

I just love tango, all tango - I have never heard a tango song I don't like – be it old, new, nuevo, neu, electronic and God knows what else they're calling it these days …..

But then, that just says it really is about time I get myself off to places where I can dance to tango music all night long. I'd never expect a dominance of tango at a mj night.

However, I do still think that there is a desire for tango & tango-hybrid tracks in the modern dance scene. To a certain extent. But, yes, the fashion right now leans much more towards funky RnB/smooth and the WCS dance style.

And that, to be honest, has really opened up my eyes – I used to hate any kind of modern RnB music, but now there's so much that I love. I really don't know if that came from watching the dancers and developing an appreciation for the music from their interpretation of it; or growing to enjoy the music and that itself fuelling my desire to be able to WCS.

But do you know what the beauty is? I think – (I believe Rocky may have mentioned this already, in which case I'm plagarising) - that mj dancers these days are so versatile and creative they will happily adapt their dancing to any song they enjoy. And so much of the music played is open to personal interpretation (yes, that bit is Rocky) - it can be danced in so many different ways and still feel 'right'.

I'm still detemined that Burnt by the Sun should be danced tango-stylee. But other dancers look great dancing to it in a completely different style.

Personally, I can hear tango-esque vibes in so many different songs, (wrongly, I'm sure), simply because that's what I love and that's what I'm actively listening out for. Generally, there's enough 'suitable' music on a freestyle night to keep my happy.

So, basically, I'm not too despondent, as I think there's still a yearning for tango out there. (And just look at the response to Amir and Cat's Ceroc Champs showcase, for example.) I also believe there are a lot of tango-crossover tracks which remain hugely popular.

Pink Martini is not dead yet!

I'm with Lynn & Lory - I vote variety too!

R.

Rachel
21st-November-2007, 05:07 PM
....(with the exception of fast swing of course! :devil::whistle:)Believe it or not, I quite like the odd fast swing track in an evening ... Yep - even Zoot Suit Riot!

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 06:27 PM
It's R&B Salsa, I'd say. The DJ at Oakwood used to play this all the time as the salsa cooldown track after the class, and I've heard other salsa DJs play it.

It's a good track - overplayed now, but then there's so little decent salsa music, it's hardly surprising that the first half-decent track that comes along gets jumped on.

:yeah: Yep...I would always salsa to that (partner allowing).

ducasi
21st-November-2007, 06:27 PM
... I am asking for a bit more balance. The last event I was at was almost 80% R&B. ...
I'm all for balance – I don't think that "80%" R&B in a blues/chill room is desirable, but I find it really hard to believe that this has happened – where was it?

Like Lory, Lynn, Rachel, and all the others, I vote for variety – including tango tracks, which I really enjoy dancing to. (Though like Lory, I make an exception for fast swing. ;))


A year ago a Southport...a chilled track would come on in the blues room and you could see quite a few playing with or dancing Tango. At the last event I struggled to see anyone doing this. It was not that there was no music for it; it was just much less of it. The mood was not there.
My own perception of the Southport blues room in recent times is that it has become a bit dull – too many songs with not enough attitude. I think a bit more Tango and modern RnB would help a lot.

That said, there's a fair amount of Tango played elsewhere at Southport, and as Marc pointed out, it's not unusual to find good Tango songs in the main room (both in Southport and elsewhere.)

Sheepman
21st-November-2007, 06:41 PM
Are there really events where you get "funky RnB" all night long to the exclusion of all else? The closest I've done are the WCS rooms at Southport & Camber, about 95% modern RnB, after all, when there's a blues room next door, what would be the point in duplicating?

Greg

Rocky
21st-November-2007, 07:05 PM
I think really when we address Ian's initial question and the subsequent replies and discussions the problem we as Dj's have is that Tango is still a minority interest on the MJ scene. Sure there are goegraphical 'pockets' of interest, most notably the Jango and Funky Lush crossover crowd (just walking around...) which is mostly London area based - and a few people who do it for real. But on any night or weekend event these people will make up probably less than 5-10% of the dancers in the room.

There are very popular crossover tracks that you can use to satisfy this audience but by definition they are all overplayed, so again you risk the wrath of dancers who are sick to death of Perfidia and the like (funnily enough though I could listen to the Alberto Domingeuz version every day and not tire of it...)

I completely accept that when you've been dancing to different styles it takes a while to get back into the zone for a 'proper' tango style dance. But there in lies the rub... if I played 3 tango tracks back to back to cater for this audience I alienate the other 90% of dancers in the room who could maybe cope with 1 track, moan at 2 and would string me up by me milongas if I played 3.

It's easy enough to say that we need to educate dancers by regularly exposing them to samples of this style of music, but as I've said before, you tend to get judged on what people didn't like about what you've played as a DJ as that's what sticks in their minds.

So the answer is that many Dj's DON'T play this style of music because we're too chicken to put our neck on the block and also our egos crave positive feedback rather than negative, even if we know it's totally unjustified - I of course having been saying 'we' but I mean 'me' :blush: but I do think other Dj's might feel this way too?

The best resolution is probably to have an event where there is a small room dedicated just to Tango style music that is still attached to a main room, so that people can dip in and out as they wish. This is a better use of a seperate room IMO than using it as a WCS area as, has been discussed before, there is a huge crossover of WCSwingable music being played in COZ rooms these days now anyway.

And as an aside I also love dancing to fast swing tracks, more so in fact than most MJ tracks, which is why in the original UTOPIA concept we had 2 fast tracks an hour. But of course the majority moaned about it... now a fast Tango track (probably a contradiction in terms as I guess you'd half time it..) now that WOULD be fun!

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 07:10 PM
I'm all for balance – I don't think that "80%" R&B in a blues/chill room is desirable, but I find it really hard to believe that this has happened – where was it?

OK...perhaps not all true R&B, but stuff I would rather WCS to.


That said, there's a fair amount of Tango played elsewhere at Southport, and as Marc pointed out, it's not unusual to find good Tango songs in the main room (both in Southport and elsewhere.)

Yup…I play the Tango slots in the Dance Den. The use of 4 dance halls is a big plus for Southport. Hmm maybe I should venture into the main room occasionally. I have not done that in a while. From what I can remember…you don’t tend to find dancers that can Tango in the main room.


Too much of 'any' good thing can be bad! its the 'differences' and 'contrasts', that make a good evening for me! That's one of the reasons doing a whole night of Salsa drives me nuts. And likewise, the other genre's should also be supported too!

:yeah: I agree with all of this. Although I go to Tango & Salsa events I don’t like that music all night. Variety is the real plus for MJ.



PS. I still have your card marked for a Tango Lory :hug:




so much of the music played is open to personal interpretation it can be danced in so many different ways and still feel 'right'.


:yeah: I always remember having a great Tango to Santa Maria with Mandy in the SP blues Room 3 years ago. A crowd gathered to watch Victor and Yuko dancing along side us. At the end several people came up and said how fantastic it was to watch two completely different dance styles side by side to the same track and yet both looked right for the music.

PS. Enjoyed our Tango at Blackpool. We must do more :hug:

ducasi
21st-November-2007, 07:30 PM
The best resolution is probably to have an event where there is a small room dedicated just to Tango style music that is still attached to a main room, so that people can dip in and out as they wish. This is a better use of a seperate room IMO than using it as a WCS area as, has been discussed before, there is a huge crossover of WCSwingable music being played in COZ rooms these days now anyway.
:yeah:

Keep WCS music out of the ghettos! (If that's not a contradiction in terms! :really:)

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 08:13 PM
OK…..Here is a small example of tracks that I have used at Jive events which have allowed those who can Tango to have play without upsetting rest. I have deliberately chosen less obvious tracks for Tango. There are many more.


Breathless (Featuring Delrosario) The StiX & Delrosario
Burnt By the Sun Sophie Solomon
California Dreamin' Queen Latifah
Caramel Suzanne Vega
Delicate Terence Trent D'Arby Duet with Des'ree
Fame Eldissa
Fever Ray Charles & Natali Cole
Give me the night Randy Crawford
Jails & Bombs Amos Lee
Let's Spend The Night Together Amazonics
Lost In You Garth Brooks as Chris Gaines
mad about you hooverphonic
Mariposa en Havana Si*Sé
Nature Boy Quadro Nuevo
Por la Orilla del Rio Valentina Sousa
Rio de Janiero Blue (cut to 4:09) Joe Sample & Randy Crawford
Save Me Jem
Secret Maroon 5
Sometimes B tribe
Temptation Diana Krall
The Itch Keb' Mo'
Turn Off The Lights (Album Version) Sarah Connor
Why Can´t We Live Together Smoma
Woman To Man Harriet

MartinHarper
21st-November-2007, 09:03 PM
I always used to promote the fact that it is possible to Tango to most music, Swing, Blues, Jazz, Latin, Acoustic, soft rock, etc. But the distinctive beat of most modern R&B does not feel right at all.

It doesn't particularly suit standard Modern Jive either, come to that.
Not that this stops people trying.

Sugarfoot
21st-November-2007, 09:05 PM
It doesn't particularly suit standard Modern Jive either, come to that.
Not that this stops people trying.

:yeah: I agree with you on that. I stuggle to jive to most of it. It has made me push forward with my WCS though.

Toby wan Kenobe
22nd-November-2007, 01:06 AM
blah blah.....'Funky Lush' blah blah ...... lot of tango music ....?

Interesting... but wrong, Funky Lush has an average of 6 nutango tracks in a four hour freestyle, which works out at approximately 10% - but don't let that stop your blah blah.....

TwK :wink:

Sugarfoot
22nd-November-2007, 02:01 AM
Interesting... but wrong, Funky Lush has an average of 6 nutango tracks in a four hour freestyle, which works out at approximately 10% - but don't let that stop your blah blah.....

TwK :wink:

Perception is a funny thing Toby. Mandy & I put more Tango than most into our Jive when ever we get a chance. Often people perceive the music as Tango??? Because you attract the Jango dancers people think you play lots of Tango. Go figure.....:confused:

robd
22nd-November-2007, 10:30 AM
Interesting... but wrong, Funky Lush has an average of 6 nutango tracks in a four hour freestyle, which works out at approximately 10% - but don't let that stop your blah blah.....

TwK :wink:


Easy bling king :sick:

I am not saying the perception is right (and I have been on record here as saying how much I enjoy your music at Funky Lush events I have attended despite not particularly enjoying latin style music myself) but the perception of many people is that Funky Lush will feature a lot of tango music (just as Rocky pointed out the mistaken perception that Utopia is wall to wall R&B) and I wonder how much this contributed to the attendance levels at the most recent FL events?

Sheepman
22nd-November-2007, 11:53 AM
The best resolution is probably to have an event where there is a small room dedicated just to Tango style music that is still attached to a main room, so that people can dip in and out as they wish. This is a better use of a seperate room IMO than using it as a WCS area as, has been discussed before, there is a huge crossover of WCSwingable music being played in COZ rooms these days now anyway.
That is something that i have considered doing at WCS events, although there is the usual problem of will the numbers justify the cost of hiring an extra room?
There is one very successful charity event, (Gt Bookham, which has sold out every month but one for years now) that has an MJ room, and a swing & blues room. The swing and blues room includes fast swing, blues, and "old" R&B, but then for the last half hour, tango music is played, this isn't something that packs the room, but it is a feature that is sorely missed when e.g there is a change of DJ. On the whole, it's not an event that appeals to many Westies, as the music in both rooms is faster than their current norm, but it does appeal to a good cross section of dancers.


Interesting... but wrong, Funky Lush has an average of 6 nutango tracks in a four hour freestyle, which works out at approximately 10%
Similarly at the jango t-jives, I play around 8 nutango tracks in 3 hours, but tango can be danced to nearly all the remaining tracks. I wonder what the perception is?

Greg