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Martin
17th-November-2007, 03:04 PM
If a person posts on the forum, and claims to have done, or not to have done certain things... Claims to have danced for x years, claims to be an expert in x dance.

Should you challenge on an open forum?

Is it destructive to challenge?

Or should people who know the history of this person and the truth, say so?

It seems the challengers get the raw deal and the flack.

Maybe the person who made the incorrect claim should get the flack?

Ghost
17th-November-2007, 03:10 PM
If a person posts on the forum, and claims to have done, or not to have done certain things... Claims to have danced for x years, claims to be an expert in x dance.

Should you challenge on an open forum?

<snip>

Or should people who know the history of this person and the truth, say so?

The obvious question is how do you prove it either way?

Could you prove that you've been dancing Ceroc for more than 4 months (ok your avatar might help a bit, but still Photoshop....) Could you be bothered to prove it?

Andy McGregor
17th-November-2007, 03:25 PM
In my experience you are seen as the person who "threw the first stone" when you challenge what somebody has posted. In other words some people, mostly of small mind or with another agenda, will think you started the argument. In my opinion you are not the one who started the argument. The first stone was thrown when the original lie was posted.

Of course you do have the burden of proof if you are going to call someone "liar". And you run the risk of breaking the forum rules if you "name and shame".

Martin
17th-November-2007, 03:25 PM
The obvious question is how do you prove it either way?

Could you prove that you've been dancing Ceroc for more than 4 months (ok your avatar might help a bit, but still Photoshop....) Could you be bothered to prove it?

I was thinking of people you personally know. Who make claims which are 100% untrue.

And yes I photoshop'ed Lily and janet onto my shoulders :rofl:
[I wish, that would have been soooo much easier :what:]

Not about me though, about those who make claims, which are total fabrications of the truth.

Should we say it is not true, or sit and listen to the bending of the truth?

Andy McGregor
17th-November-2007, 03:28 PM
I was thinking of people you personally know. Who make claims which are 100% untrue.

And yes I photoshop'ed Lily and janet onto my shoulders :rofl:
[I wish, that would have been soooo much easier :what:]Could you get them onto my shoulders? You'll have to make my shoulders bigger though, I'm a bit of a weed in the shoulder area - more of a fabulously pert bottom kinda guy :wink:

Ghost
17th-November-2007, 03:31 PM
I was thinking of people you personally know. Who make claims which are 100% untrue.
Sure, but in the nicest possible way, why should I believe you just because you know them? Maybe you have a grudge against person X.

I have visions of it ending up like the "Proof of God" thread :really:


And yes I photoshop'ed Lily and janet onto my shoulders :rofl:
[I wish, that would have been soooo much easier :what:]
Next time get someone else to do it and post their pic as your avatar - it's not like 99% of the people on here are going to know.....:whistle:


Should we say it is not true, or sit and listen to the bending of the truth?
I'd be more inclined if you could definitely prove it, to take it up with the Moderators and ask to have the post deleted.

Martin
17th-November-2007, 03:39 PM
I'd be more inclined if you could definitely prove it, to take it up with the Moderators and ask to have the post deleted.

Franck - Ghosts do not exist... can you delete him for me? :hug:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Ghost
17th-November-2007, 03:52 PM
Franck - Ghosts do not exist... can you delete him for me? :hug:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Prove it :na:

dave the scaffolder
17th-November-2007, 04:19 PM
I'm a bit of a weed in the shoulder area - more of a fabulously pert bottom kinda guy :wink:

Youre not wrong sexy man.

Arse like a Japanese whaler.


XXX XX DTS Dave

Connie
17th-November-2007, 08:20 PM
why would people lie, and why are some of you so distroustful? I myself have had several comments and pm's suggesting i am either some sort of plant or prankster. Its not nice!

Minnie M
17th-November-2007, 08:31 PM
There is one MJ teacher who professes to be dancing for over 20 years - however he started learning at the same time as me in 1994 :wink: but ......... so what .......... does it really matter, he is still a great teacher and dancer, don't understand why some have to exagerate (or maybe it seems like 20 years)

Andy McGregor
17th-November-2007, 08:46 PM
why would people lie, and why are some of you so distroustful? I myself have had several comments and pm's suggesting i am either some sort of plant or prankster. Its not nice!I could never have a crush on a plant - athough I have been called a "pansy" :tears:

The question about why people lie is difficult to understand if you are honest. However, there are still many unopposed lies peppering this forum. One of the reasons they are unopposed is the forum rule against "naming and shaming". If you expose a lie you can not do so without naming and shaming the liar.

And why do they lie? To gain your trust. To seem more intresting. To gain sexual favours. To swindle you of money. The list is never ending.

Andy McGregor
17th-November-2007, 08:53 PM
There is one MJ teacher who professes to be dancing for over 20 years - however he started learning at the same time as me in 1994 :wink: but ......... so what .......... does it really matter, he is still a great teacher and dancer, don't understand why some have to exagerate (or maybe it seems like 20 years)Phew! Can't be me. Minnie was there when I started Modern Jive in 1997. However, I went to my first dance class 20 years earlier when I was inspired by John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever - I even bought a white jacket :waycool:

In a certain light I still look a bit like Mr Travolta* :whistle:


*This is a lie, honest :devil:

MartinHarper
17th-November-2007, 09:06 PM
One of the reasons they are unopposed is the forum rule against "naming and shaming". If you expose a lie you can not do so without naming and shaming the liar.

You cannot do so publically. However, you can report serious lies to the moderators.

Minnie M
17th-November-2007, 09:16 PM
..........In a certain light I still look a bit like Mr Travolta* :whistle: .........

So true .........when I saw you in that white suit - I did a double take :wink:

Andy McGregor
17th-November-2007, 09:20 PM
So true .........when I saw you in that white suit - I did a double take :wink:Ahh, that was my white Naval Officer suit. No wonder you did a double-take. I look very much like Richard Gear - just a bit younger and taller :whistle:

Martin
17th-November-2007, 10:57 PM
Phew! Can't be me.

Not me either, but I know who you mean Minnie M ......

Forgotten the name.... who was it??? :whistle:

Minnie M
17th-November-2007, 11:06 PM
Not me either, but I know who you mean Minnie M ......

Forgotten the name.... who was it??? :whistle:

I'll PM you Martin :wink:

Martin
17th-November-2007, 11:08 PM
I'll PM you Martin :wink:

No need... I was teasing... I am fully aware who you mean :whistle:

:love:

Andy McGregor
18th-November-2007, 01:47 AM
No need... I was teasing... I am fully aware who you mean :whistle:

:love:There are some of us who don't know. I can't even think of anybody who is claiming to have been doing MJ for 20 years and is teaching in our area.

The oddest claim in our area is a teacher who claims to have been "self-taught" as if it was a claim to fame. He certainly dances like nobody I know so it could be true :whistle:

kiwi_clay
18th-November-2007, 05:03 AM
Is it not possible to put in say
"That ain't quite how I recollect......,",
or even better PM them (BCC to moderator if that bad), suggesting they edit there post for accuracy,

fletch
18th-November-2007, 10:35 AM
I was thinking of people you personally know. Who make claims which are 100% untrue.


Not about me though, about those who make claims, which are total fabrications of the truth.

Should we say it is not true, or sit and listen to the bending of the truth?

I would PM the pearson and ask them to consider what they are wrighting, if this would add fule to the falmes, try neg rep.:flower:


why would people lie, and why are some of you so distroustful? I myself have had several comments and pm's suggesting i am either some sort of plant or prankster. Its not nice!


cos some people do, that just human nature, were not all the same. :flower:

We have had plants on hear stiring things up,:mad: I was considered not real for a nano second when I joined :eek: I mean is there such a person that would shoot from the hip with there opinions and be a newbie :whistle:

We have a had a thread recently on hear by someone claiming that some thing about them was untrue, I had PM saying that was true, I guess that peason wan'ted to put things behind them, we all make mistakes, in my book the biggest was trying to lie your way out of it.

If youv'e done it pay the price take it on the chin, move on :cheers:

David Bailey
18th-November-2007, 12:36 PM
This is a discussion forum.
Feel free to discuss.
If a discussion violates the rules (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules), report the relevant post.
Moderators aren't here to enforce Truth, Justice and The Scottish Way - they're here to ensure people keep to the rules (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules).

If in doubt, read the rules (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules)- which, it seems, almost nobody does :tears:

If the rules aren't clear, or if they miss something out, then let us know.

Oh, did I mention that there are rules (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules)? Cos, there are...

Caro
18th-November-2007, 01:15 PM
I myself have had several comments and pm's suggesting i am either some sort of plant or prankster. Its not nice!

:eek:
can we just clarify, that wasn't me! (really) :innocent:

David Franklin
18th-November-2007, 01:34 PM
If a discussion violates the rules (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules), report the relevant post.
Moderators aren't here to enforce Truth, Justice and The Scottish Way - they're here to ensure people keep to the rules (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules).

If in doubt, read the rules (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules)- which, it seems, almost nobody does :tears:

If the rules aren't clear, or if they miss something out, then let us know.I think it's unclear what to do if a poster is lying. Rereading the rules, I guess

12. Any attempts to defraud or deceive our members may result in your account being suspended.
is the relevant one. But that rule doesn't say anything about what people should (or shouldn't) do if they see a post that they think contains a lie.

In practice, people tend to write a rebuttal that will often end up "naming and shaming". Now I'm not saying that's right, and it does break the forum rules. But the fact that it happens moderately frequently, and that people who I don't generally think of as troublemakers have done it shows it's a natural response. So I think there needs to be a lot more guidance from the moderators here, rather than simply deleting the relevant post or threads.

If we're supposed to report the post to the moderators, I note that the RTM comment box isn't really adequate for the length and complexity of response you might need when explaining why a post contains a lie.

Ghost
18th-November-2007, 02:10 PM
If we're supposed to report the post to the moderators, I note that the RTM comment box isn't really adequate for the length and complexity of response you might need when explaining why a post contains a lie.
An option if you need more space, want to send attachments etc is just to PM Franck directly ccing the other mods, which I believe is basically what the "Report Post" does.

David Franklin
18th-November-2007, 02:17 PM
An option if you need more space, want to send attachments etc is just to PM Franck directly ccing the other mods, which I believe is basically what the "Report Post" does.Well, except some of us don't keep track of who all the other mods are, etc.

I have actually asked a mod about this in the past, and basically been told "there isn't really a way of sending a PM to all the mods".

Ghost
18th-November-2007, 02:44 PM
Well, except some of us don't keep track of who all the other mods are, etc.

I have actually asked a mod about this in the past, and basically been told "there isn't really a way of sending a PM to all the mods".

Although I haven't used it in exactly the way the thread suggests, I have found sending a PM just to Franck works perfectly well - I gather they discuss important stuff if necessary.

As an aside I think the Mods are currently

Franck
David James
Ducasi
Kevin F
Tiggerbabe
Lory

(either way it's pretty easy to remember David James is a Mod :whistle: )

Martin
18th-November-2007, 02:56 PM
Is it not possible to put in say
"That ain't quite how I recollect......,",
or even better PM them (BCC to moderator if that bad), suggesting they edit there post for accuracy,

It is a difficult one.

I have sometimes been really dumb on the open forum and questioned things people say in the wrong way and I have sometimes gone over the top. :blush:
Not something I am proud of, sometimes I just, "let it go", forgetting that it is open for all to see.

The only time I would use bcc, is when sending jokes and protecting peoples e-mail addresses.

I do not think it good practice to send a "private" message to someone and bcc a "higher level" into the post... Personally I find that underhand.

In Minnie M's example of someone claiming to have danced x years on the open forum, when I know for a fact it was not true - due to the fact I was there, when he/she took part in their first ever class. I sent a personal PM, as I knew the person, considered him/her a friend, the lie continues, but then that is what he/she wants to do.

I did openly challenge a certain Latin style dancer, who 100% lied about who he/she was. I was happy to do that, even though he/she was not happy and wanted to openly lie and decieve people.

So if you are happy to lie, or come across as far more "able" or "experienced" in a dance style than you really are... should we go with it, or should we say... actually, no, that is untrue?

Martin
18th-November-2007, 03:01 PM
(either way it's pretty easy to remember David James is a Mod :whistle: )

I am a rocker...

Does he wear silly string ties, and drive a hair dryer, granny wobbler bike?

Should we do a Quadraphinia style fight on Brighton Seafront? :rofl:

Martin
18th-November-2007, 03:26 PM
The oddest claim in our area is a teacher who claims to have been "self-taught" as if it was a claim to fame. He certainly dances like nobody I know so it could be true :whistle:

This one is really interesting...

I cook nothing like my mum, Wednesday night, every week, is not fish finger night, and I do not use the same 3 vegtables every day.

But I am not self taught, I experimented, sure, but I also read books and talked to people, and watched cooking shows. So I was taught by books, other people and by tele.

If totally self taught, it would infer you had no outside influences...

Does his name start with a J?

Who used to come to my classes and travel to London to do classes?

David Bailey
18th-November-2007, 10:07 PM
(either way it's pretty easy to remember David James is a Mod :whistle: )
Indeed, for 1 whole year now... :what:

Hmmm... there are some good points made here. I guess my main concern is that I can see us being asked to take sides in disputes, in the name of rooting out untruths or whatever - and that's really not our job as I see it. To quote the great Alec Guinness, many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

We have established mechanisms for dealing with offensive posts and posters. I think these mechanisms work reasonably well at the moment.

As for the rules, the general posting ethos should be covered in the "Mi casa, su casa" section, which attempt to cover the tone of posts - especially relevant is the bit regarding common decency.

Ghost
18th-November-2007, 10:37 PM
Indeed, for 1 whole year now... :what:

It's been a year already...:really:

http://users.adelphia.net/~suebaum/First_Birthday_smash_cake_sm.JPG


I am a rocker...

Does he wear silly string ties, and drive a hair dryer, granny wobbler bike?

Should we do a Quadraphinia style fight on Brighton Seafront? :rofl:
If you listen carefully you can hear the teenagers Googling to find out what your on about :wink:

My own personal take is to remember that if you don't know the person posting, bear that in mind when reading their advice. Someone may have done MJ for 20 years and still be rubbish :blush:. Or the method that works brilliantly for them actually works for a different reason than they think :tears:. Not to mention the whole "describing actions in text" problem. I think the rep system can make this worse. Just because someone's made 1,000 very funny posts does not mean they have any clue how to dance.

That's why I don't have a post in the introductions section and I often buffer suggestions with "I think". I don't want people thinking "He knows what he's talking about" - read, be cynical, try if you want :flower:

MartinHarper
18th-November-2007, 11:51 PM
If we're supposed to report the post to the moderators, I note that the RTM comment box isn't really adequate for the length and complexity of response you might need when explaining why a post contains a lie.

Give a brief summary and suggest the moderators PM you if they need more information.

Gus
19th-November-2007, 12:04 AM
Hmmm... there are some good points made here. I guess my main concern is that I can see us being asked to take sides in disputes, in the name of rooting out untruths or whatever - and that's really not our job as I see it. To quote the great Alec Guinness, many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.There is also a case of 'who' is perpetuating the lie. There have been comments before about using 'plants' to say things. As Msrtin says, there have been a few people claiming various expertise of qualifications that are patently untrue. There have also been comments about freestyles/venues where the poster has been 'economical with the truth'. These facts can be misleading, with dancers turning up to events and being disappointed. Its probably unreasonable to expect these comments to be policed but it is annoying all the same. :(

Isis
19th-November-2007, 12:33 AM
IMO If a person posts lies on an open forum, they should be prepared to be challenged on an open forum.

If you want to challenge someone you should consider what your own motivation is. If you want to prevent harm to other people or to that person, you should go ahead and challenge but without aggression.

If your motivation is simply to put the person down, humiliate them, make a dig at them beacause you don't like them, the challenge will probably backfire on you.

Exaggerations such as 'I've been dancing for millions of years and am brilliant and know everything' (which is totally true in my case :wink:) are probably best left alone as I'm sure most people are smart enough to see through them for themselves.

Andy McGregor
19th-November-2007, 02:57 AM
Does his name start with a J?:yeah:

Martin
19th-November-2007, 03:21 AM
IMO If a person posts lies on an open forum, they should be prepared to be challenged on an open forum.

:yeah: IMO



If your motivation is simply to put the person down, ....... the challenge will probably backfire on you.

:yeah: I have been guilty of this a couple of times.... not something I am proud of.... something for me not to do.
Normally happens when posts come across as "expert opinion" when in reality, they are far from "expert" IMO. :angry:

Martin
19th-November-2007, 03:41 AM
:yeah:

Cool... I won the guessing game. :clap:

Maybe he or she was self taught, but only went to MANY dance classes, MJ and Lindy "just to socialise".

Being in the rotation whilst the teacher was going on about "who knows what", could have been part of the "social process".

:grin:

In the same way, I could have gone to a heap of cooking classes, but still be "self taught"... as those experienced chef's know nothing. I was just there to "socialise".... I knew it all before, but was only there to, um, socialise....

:D

Andy McGregor
19th-November-2007, 09:05 AM
Cool... I won the guessing game. :clap:

Maybe he or she was self taught, but only went to MANY dance classes, MJ and Lindy "just to socialise".

Being in the rotation whilst the teacher was going on about "who knows what", could have been part of the "social process".

:grin:

In the same way, I could have gone to a heap of cooking classes, but still be "self taught"... as those experienced chef's know nothing. I was just there to "socialise".... I knew it all before, but was only there to, um, socialise....

:DMy fascination with this claim isn't that it can't be true. It's that the claim a dance teacher is "self-taught" is being made as if it's a good thing :confused:

I think a claim like this is made due to ego "I'm better than everybody, therefore nobody could have made me this good".

bigdjiver
19th-November-2007, 09:24 AM
If a person posts on the forum, and claims to have done, or not to have done certain things... Claims to have danced for x years, claims to be an expert in x dance...There are people on this forum who have danced for decades before discovering MJ. There are many on this forum who are far more "expert" about dance than I, who have been dancing for a fraction of the time I have in years, but who have had a far more intense experience both in theory and in practise at a higher level, and a far greater talent for absorbing dance knowledge.

What are the precise claims? If they are false, how are they hurting who? If their actions are hurting somebody then they are very likely to be against the law, and there are probably legal bodies who they should be reported to.

kiwi_clay
19th-November-2007, 08:44 PM
Now I am not alluding to any of the people on this forum, but as an example in Sydney we have a gentleman that the first question asked is always how long have you been dancing, if you answer "I am a beginner" you will over the course of the evening be treated to just how experienced knowledgeable, etc he is, he dances dangerous drops etc, and those dips he does are done poorly, and not safetly, trouble is he has only been dancing around six months, never completes a class, and always trys to lead mid level intermediate moves on beginners...Challenge him..YES!!!

~*~Saligal~*~
20th-November-2007, 12:22 AM
When someone says they've been dancing for years - did they clarify whether they had been dancing ceroc for years? or that they had been doing other dance forms as well as ceroc and that experience totals to the "years" of dance? Maybe the example given was one known between a few people, but from reading the posts it left me with that question.
Regarding experience in dance to be an expert? hmmm... from my experience I have been taught by people who are great technicians in the style (ie have great knowledge in the dance and how it is to be executed) but weren't great dancers themselves in the style. In comparison - in the same style I have some top dancers teach me, and I have found them lousy teachers. Even though they have excelled in their style, because the style came naturally to them they weren't great technicians in teaching others. So who is the expert in the dance style?
(btw the dance style was ballet. I studied it for 16 years completing all of my RAD examinations with no less than a highly commended and I have ARAD status - just in case someone was enquiring :wink:)

Ghost
20th-November-2007, 12:46 AM
<snip> good points <snip>


(btw the dance style was ballet. I studied it for 16 years completing all of my RAD examinations with no less than a highly commended and I have ARAD status - just in case someone was enquiring :wink:)
I trust you'll scan the relevant documents / certificates and pm them to the Moderators for verification, along with contact details of 2 referees :whistle:

jeanie
20th-November-2007, 01:11 AM
I guess the magic of the internet is - you can be whoever you want. For all anybody on here knows I could be a multi-billionare* who has 5 houses* in different areas in the world, but as no-one knows me so who will challenge me?

The downfall is on the person who makes false claims as what goes around comes around.

I openly admit I know bu66er all about dancing but am definitely enjoying it. If people feel the need to lie about their lives I find it's usually because something is missing from it or they are suffering from green eye distress!

* = in my wildest dreams!!

Ghost
20th-November-2007, 01:31 AM
The downfall is on the person who makes false claims as what goes around comes around.

The problem is that in this instance you and others can get hurt through following bad advice

"In my 237 years experience as a Ceroc World Champion I've found there's nothing women like more than to be surprised by drops - don't ask them, it spoils the surprise. And fast sudden ones with no warning are the best"

:really::tears::sick::angry:

TA Guy
20th-November-2007, 01:37 AM
I don't really take the forum seriously enough to worry about whether people lie or not. I enjoy it during the boring bits of work, and sometimes good tips do surface amongst the dross, but there are often agendas at work, even if it's only people 'bigging' up their own preferred style or favoured nights etc.

I've been dancing MJ for a good few years, not the most on here by any means, but at the top end, and the years of experience puts a lot of the stuff said on here in perspective and to be honest, I don't mind if people don't believe that. No skin off my nose :) A fairly high percentage of the stuff on here, including much of mine, is only opinion. Which means it's inviting challenge anyway.

Difficulty, I guess, is posts containing factual, but personal information. Becomes a bit trickier to challenge then. Any challenges there really need to be done behind the scenes and I presume the mods would take action is it was deemed relevent and important enough. It can get nasty if it's done in public, and that kind of stuff can be detrimental to any forum.

jeanie
20th-November-2007, 01:37 AM
I think the 237 years is mmmmm perhaps a slight exageration? :whistle:

I wouldn't thank anyone for a sudden drop more likely to damage a body part with that...:mad: surely anyone with sense would think there was something slightly off with that advice?

NZ Monkey
20th-November-2007, 01:39 AM
"In my 237 years experience as a Ceroc World Champion I've found there's nothing women like more than to be surprised by drops - don't ask them, it spoils the surprise. And fast sudden ones with no warning are the best"
OK Ghost, clearly the poster here is mistaken and nobody in their right mind would take them seriously.

Everybody knows it's the surprise aerials that really float their boat! :devil:

Ghost
20th-November-2007, 01:43 AM
I think the 237 years is mmmmm perhaps a slight exageration? :whistle:
But not that I'm World Champion? :hug::rofl:

I wouldn't thank anyone for a sudden drop more likely to damage a body part with that...:mad: surely anyone with sense would think there was something slightly off with that advice?
There have been similar albeit slightly toned down versions on here. If the person posting says "Yup only been dancing 3 weeks" and then a whole load of Forumites post citing that they've been teaching drops workshops for 10 years etc and that this is very bad advice, it's clearer to people reading it. Whereas I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on here with more than 237 years experience, though there are a few actual World Champs :respect:

jeanie
20th-November-2007, 01:43 AM
I It can get nasty if it's done in public, and that kind of stuff can be detrimental to any forum.

As a member on other forums for my other hobby things got rather heated when it came to complaining about service from companies and trips that had been planned but where things went wrong, as people jamp in with their version and who said what. It ended up in a mud slinging match which resulted in the offending posts being removed.

That's not what a forum is for. If someone challenges a post it leaves the door open for anybody else to join in with their opinion and next thing you know it will be out of hand. If someone needs to fib and you know they are, deal with it amongst yourselves. Its quicker & easier.

jeanie
20th-November-2007, 01:45 AM
But not that I'm World Champion? :hug::rofl:




I don't know you so for all I know you could be and if you are well - :respect:

kiwi_clay
20th-November-2007, 03:25 AM
But not that I'm World Champion? :hug::rofl:

There have been similar albeit slightly toned down versions on here. If the person posting says "Yup only been dancing 3 weeks" and then a whole load of Forumites post citing that they've been teaching drops workshops for 10 years etc and that this is very bad advice, it's clearer to people reading it. Whereas I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on here with more than 237 years experience, though there are a few actual World Champs :respect:

And which comp bills themselves as the world champs ??....,

Tho I do have heaps of respect for those dancers who have competed and won/placed at multiple national titles, esp those who do so in trippppllleeeess

David Bailey
20th-November-2007, 08:42 AM
Now I am not alluding to any of the people on this forum, but as an example in Sydney we have a gentleman that the first question asked is always how long have you been dancing, if you answer "I am a beginner" you will over the course of the evening be treated to just how experienced knowledgeable, etc he is, he dances dangerous drops etc, and those dips he does are done poorly, and not safetly, trouble is he has only been dancing around six months, never completes a class, and always trys to lead mid level intermediate moves on beginners...Challenge him..YES!!!
By all means, challenge any "wrong" posts someone such as this makes on the forum - that's why it's called a discussion forum, not a cheerleading forum.

But, I'm not convinced it'd be appropriate for the moderators to get involved in such a discussion, taking sides effectively. God knows, we get accused of interfering enough already.


I trust you'll scan the relevant documents / certificates and pm them to the Moderators for verification, along with contact details of 2 referees :whistle:
Oh, please do. There's nothing I enjoy more than a good solid session of document-verification.

David Bailey
20th-November-2007, 08:46 AM
"In my 237 years experience as a Ceroc World Champion I've found there's nothing women like more than to be surprised by drops - don't ask them, it spoils the surprise. And fast sudden ones with no warning are the best"
That's a very good example - but I'd definitely see that as a statement which should be challenged (and refuted) by discussion rather than by moderator intervention.

Martin
20th-November-2007, 08:53 AM
a multi-billionare* who has 5 houses* in different areas in the world,


Cool - I love you long time..... :wink:



* = in my wildest dreams!!

damn, you had to go and spoil it :really:

Martin
20th-November-2007, 09:25 AM
Now I am not alluding to any of the people on this forum, but as an example in Sydney we have a gentleman that the first question asked is always how long have you been dancing, if you answer "I am a beginner" you will over the course of the evening be treated to just how experienced knowledgeable, etc he is, he dances dangerous drops etc, and those dips he does are done poorly, and not safetly, trouble is he has only been dancing around six months, never completes a class, and always trys to lead mid level intermediate moves on beginners...Challenge him..YES!!!

That would be classified as a "local challenge" - protecting your local dancers.

The sad fact is that I think I know who you are talking about. :sick: I do hope you can offer protection to those beginners. :hug:

This discussion is more about wild claims on an open forum and should we stand up and be counted on a forum and counter those claims, if we 100% know them to be a little untrue.

On a subjective note... a certain [wannabe] Latin dancer who amused the forum for a while, having stopped posting on the Aussie forum (and 100% lied about who he was), has found another forum to chat on (purely for research and for his proffesor you understand)... this is all IMHO you understand... I could be wrong...... :rofl:

pop quiz... can you work out what poster and what forum?

jeanie
20th-November-2007, 09:32 AM
Cool - I love you long time..... :wink:



damn, you had to go and spoil it :really:

I'm sorry :flower:

Ghost
20th-November-2007, 11:27 PM
And which comp bills themselves as the world champs ??....,

I've been hosting it for the past two centuries. Sadly no-one else ever shows up so I win by default :whistle: (It was intended in the same vein as the 237 year's experience, but also as a 'credible' example of complete fiction)


That's a very good example - but I'd definitely see that as a statement which should be challenged (and refuted) by discussion rather than by moderator intervention.
The one big problem I have, is that if someone is willing to lie about their background, they're probably not averse to starting a ruck and getting threads taken outside if they're challenged. After the sixth time, the people doing the challenging get fed up. Plus the threads are deleted so newer members are unaware of such goings on. Not to mention all the bad feeling it causes.

As you say it breaks the "My house is your house" rule.


Oh, please do. There's nothing I enjoy more than a good solid session of document-verification.
:devil: Well this is the benefit as I see it. We can only ask. Ultimately we can't force the Moderators to act, which puts a "common sense" mechanism in place. And let's face it if the Moderators go rogue, we've got bigger problems :really:

Isis
20th-November-2007, 11:35 PM
Cool - I love you long time..... :wink:

What do you need a rich woman for Martin? I thought you and your clever accountant were minted ;)

~*~Saligal~*~
21st-November-2007, 12:17 AM
*snip*
On a subjective note... a certain [wannabe] Latin dancer who amused the forum for a while, having stopped posting on the Aussie forum (and 100% lied about who he was), has found another forum to chat on (purely for research and for his proffesor you understand)... this is all IMHO you understand... I could be wrong...... :rofl:

pop quiz... can you work out what poster and what forum?*snip*
I know the poster... but where is he contaminating now???

David Bailey
21st-November-2007, 09:57 AM
The one big problem I have, is that if someone is willing to lie about their background, they're probably not averse to starting a ruck and getting threads taken outside if they're challenged. After the sixth time, the people doing the challenging get fed up. Plus the threads are deleted so newer members are unaware of such goings on. Not to mention all the bad feeling it causes.
Um. There is a case for saying that the moderating team are a bit too "nice" - and this is me saying that - in that we're collectively extremely reluctant to ban people for, basically, being, ummm, idiots (for want of a better word).

On the other hand, if we go around disciplining and banning people all over the place, we'll get complaints that we're being heavy-handed and authoritarian. We get those complaints at the moment - and whilst that's part of the job, I certainly don't want to dampen people's enthusiasm to post.

However, if people think that the disciplining process is ineffectual, I think that's something we could review - is that the general feeling?


And let's face it if the Moderators go rogue, we've got bigger problems :really:
"Rogue Moderator" sounds :waycool: as a title :grin:

Tessalicious
21st-November-2007, 10:12 AM
I know the poster... but where is he contaminating now???I'll give you two guesses which forum he landed on recently. Clue - we're talking on it right now.

Fortunately, he seems to have disappeared since the daft 'research' statement. Although the outrage at that was one of the most entertaining moments since the 'why is woodface not going to Southport' fiasco.

David Bailey
21st-November-2007, 10:40 AM
Although the outrage at that was one of the most entertaining moments since the 'why is woodface not going to Southport' fiasco.
New thread idea, "most entertaining forum moments over the past year"... :devil:

Martin
21st-November-2007, 11:08 AM
I'll give you two guesses which forum he landed on recently. Clue - we're talking on it right now.

Fortunately, he seems to have disappeared since the daft 'research' statement. Although the outrage at that was one of the most entertaining moments since the 'why is woodface not going to Southport' fiasco.

Clue... You have only posted there 3 times, and your last post was July 2006 :D

You have gotta love a bit of research :rofl:

jeanie
21st-November-2007, 11:30 AM
What do you need a rich woman for Martin? I thought you and your clever accountant were minted ;)

Would save him spending his won money I guess...:yum:

Sheepman
21st-November-2007, 12:50 PM
And which comp bills themselves as the world champs There is only one that I know of in Ceroc that claims this title, but knowing who holds this title, it's hard to see it as a serious one.
There are plenty of world titles in ballroom, latin, salsa, line dance, and I'm sure in many more other dance styles.

But this is going off thread. I'm with Andy on this one, if someone is telling lies on here, as in real life, they should expect to be challenged. Unsurprisingly, the question of providing proof will put most people off making any challenge.

Greg

mabraham
21st-November-2007, 11:34 PM
Well, except some of us don't keep track of who all the other mods are, etc.

I have actually asked a mod about this in the past, and basically been told "there isn't really a way of sending a PM to all the mods".

We had this issue this year on the now-defunct Australian forum. Robert was able to set up a thread area where anyone could start a thread, but only the starter and the mods could read and reply. This served the purpose admirably for discussion of issues relevant to a one normal poster and the mods.

Andy McGregor
22nd-November-2007, 01:04 AM
But this is going off thread. I'm with Andy on this one, if someone is telling lies on here, as in real life, they should expect to be challenged. Unsurprisingly, the question of providing proof will put most people off making any challenge.

GregProviding proof is still naming and shaming and will get you infractions :confused:

It seems that you can lie on here with complete impunity. If you are challenged the person who challenges you will get an infraction because they have named and shamed you.

Andy

p.s. I am 6' 9" :wink:

Martin
22nd-November-2007, 01:22 AM
p.s. I am 6' 9" :wink:

Would this claim be classed as a "tall story" :rofl::rofl::rofl:

~*~Saligal~*~
22nd-November-2007, 01:48 AM
I'll give you two guesses which forum he landed on recently. Clue - we're talking on it right now.

Fortunately, he seems to have disappeared since the daft 'research' statement. Although the outrage at that was one of the most entertaining moments since the 'why is woodface not going to Southport' fiasco.
Yeah - I read the stuff on this forum from him and I thought he had pretty much left (TG) ... I thought Martin was making reference to another forum...

David Bailey
22nd-November-2007, 09:51 AM
It seems that you can lie on here with complete impunity.
Technically, yes - as you can do in real life.

As Gadget says, this is an online bar. You can tell porkies if you want - you may get challenged, you may not. As long as you don't actually dance on the tables or insult fellow patrons, the bar staff are unlikely to get involved. Some might even argue that telling tall tales is the mark of a fun bar... :whistle:

Andy McGregor
22nd-November-2007, 10:25 AM
Technically, yes - as you can do in real life.

As Gadget says, this is an online bar. You can tell porkies if you want - you may get challenged, you may not. As long as you don't actually dance on the tables or insult fellow patrons, the bar staff are unlikely to get involved. Some might even argue that telling tall tales is the mark of a fun bar... :whistle:Although you don't get the bar staff coming over and telling you off if you say "you're lying, I know you are and I can prove it". There is a big difference between a tall story and a lie that is told to gain trust or favour - does the forum differentiate between the two?

David Bailey
22nd-November-2007, 10:32 AM
Although you don't get the bar staff coming over and telling you off if you say "you're lying, I know you are and I can prove it".
Yep - that's because it's the equivalent of "You lookin' at my bird?" :whistle:


There is a big difference between a tall story and a lie that is told to gain trust or favour - does the forum differentiate between the two?
Dunno, does it? The rules don't specifically talk about this stuff as you know.

P.S. I'm 6'10", so :na:

Martin
22nd-November-2007, 10:41 AM
P.S. I'm 6'10", so :na:

I think you are telling porkies... but I can't prove it....

Anyone wanna take a tape measure to DavidJames :rofl::wink:

Andy McGregor
22nd-November-2007, 11:15 AM
Yep - that's because it's the equivalent of "You lookin' at my bird?" :whistle:And what if the guy is actually staring at your bird and making her feel uncomfortable? Is the starer or the guy that asks him to stop that should be punished? The pub example is one of a pub that tolerates perverts. Soon it will become a pub that women avoid.

Also, we are not talking about someone who has been looking at our bird. What it's more like is somebody coming into our pub and selling stolen goods. We're talking criminal lies, not a bit of "friendly" perving :angry:

If this forum continues to punish people who call out liars it will eventually become a forum for liars - because the honest poster will get fed up with reading lies that are allowed to go unchallenged.

And, I'm not talking about differences of opinion. I'm talking about blatant lies that are posted to gain trust. At the moment it's impossible to say that the post contains a lie.

MartinHarper
22nd-November-2007, 11:35 AM
The rules don't specifically talk about this stuff as you know.

Yes they do.


Any attempts to defraud or deceive our members may result in your account being suspended.

David Bailey
22nd-November-2007, 11:40 AM
Yes they do.
That's different - that's also an "insulting members" thing, to my mind.

We're talking about "telling lies in general".

If I said, for example "Oh, and I've been boffing Angelina Jolie for the past 6 months, by the way", then I'm not actually insulting a forum member, so I'm not violating any rules. Apart from those of taste of course.

Martin
22nd-November-2007, 11:50 AM
At the moment it's impossible to say that the post contains a lie.

The thing is, although there are many dancers, it is also a small comunity in some ways.

When you make a claim, be aware, there are people on the forum who know the truth.

When you do not tell the truth or want to post under an assumed name and lie about who you are or extend the truth, I for one, think this is bad form.

As I know a fair amount of people on the forum (UK, Aussie and NZ)... I consider it insulting when they lie and attack people who I see as friends :angry:

[caveat, I have been dumb sometimes in what I have said, but I have always been up front in who I am, and been willing to apologise when needed]

Martin
22nd-November-2007, 11:53 AM
I've been boffing Angelina Jolie for the past 6 months

Do tell all :drool:

David Bailey
22nd-November-2007, 12:01 PM
Do tell all :drool:
Well, I don't like to blow my own trumpet.

Sheepman
22nd-November-2007, 12:07 PM
Well, I don't like to blow my own trumpet.
Unlike Little Boy Blue then.

But if Angelina Jolie was a forum member, (is there anyone here that knows her well enough to guarantee that she's not?) I'm pretty sure she'd see it as an insulting lie.

Greg

Martin
22nd-November-2007, 12:12 PM
Well, I don't like to blow my own trumpet.

I am sure you would not need to if you are in a relationship with her :drool:

David Franklin
22nd-November-2007, 12:22 PM
That's different - that's also an "insulting members" thing, to my mind.

We're talking about "telling lies in general".Huh? How on earth does telling lies not fall under the rule about "attempts to defraud or deceive forum members"? :confused:

David Bailey
22nd-November-2007, 12:30 PM
Huh? How on earth does telling lies not fall under the rule about "attempts to defraud or deceive forum members"? :confused:
It's not targetted.

The "I'm 7 feet tall" is a good example of that. Or, the Angelina one - although yes, arguably that's not so clearcut, Ms J may well be a forum member, who knows...

But if I said "I'm boffing Andy McGregor", that would be a breach of forum rules. Well, probably - if I said "I'm boffing Andy McGregor, and he's useless in bed", that's definitely a breach. So to speak.

David Bailey
22nd-November-2007, 12:37 PM
So, to reiterate - this describes what we do at the moment.

If you want things to change, then there are two questions:


do people think that, in general, the moderation team should get involved in Exposing Evil Lying Liars?
Do people think that, in general, the moderation team should be more heavy-handed with recidivist offenders?


My personal view on this is:

No.
Mmm.... maybe.


But I'd be interested in hearing other people's impressions. And please remember, this is a discussion about a general mechanism, and not any individual cases.

David Franklin
22nd-November-2007, 12:56 PM
It's not targetted.So? The rule doesn't say anything about targetted. Given the wording, I'm somewhat boggled at your interpretation, to be honest. What's the point of telling people to read the rules if you're then going to say "oh, it doesn't actually mean what it says"?

.



do people think that, in general, the moderation team should get involved in Exposing Evil Lying Liars?Like so many things, it will depend on the situation - I don't think every lie needs exposing. But if moderation policy is "people can't rebut a lie by posting the truth if it names and shames", then I think there's no option but for the moderators to do the exposing, when necessary.

Imaginary scenario: I post saying "David James was banned from Ceroc for being a sleaze". From what I've experienced, If the moderators think I'm telling the truth, that post will get removed the moment it's reported ('naming and shaming'). But if they think I'm lying, it will take a lot longer, and it may never be removed at all. Am I wrong to think that's seriously screwed up?


Do people think that, in general, the moderation team [I]should be more heavy-handed with recidivist offenders?I think a problem here is that we don't generally know what actions are taken. My perception is that it's very unusual for the moderators to take action against offenders, but I suspect that's as much because I wouldn't know about it if you did.

But overall, yeah, I think more heavy-handedness would not be a bad thing. Although I suspect it's too late, really.

Martin
22nd-November-2007, 12:59 PM
I'm 7 feet tall

You have grown again in my estimations



But if I said "I'm boffing Andy McGregor", that would be a breach of forum rules. Well, probably - if I said "I'm boffing Andy McGregor, and he's useless in bed", that's definitely a breach. So to speak.

If you said you were boffing Andy Mc... all we need to do is send the men in white coats round...:rofl:

It is general knowledge he is useless in bed, so that would not be a forum lie :whistle:

MartinHarper
22nd-November-2007, 02:10 PM
If I said, for example "Oh, and I've been boffing Angelina Jolie for the past 6 months, by the way", then I'm not actually insulting a forum member, so I'm not violating any rules. Apart from those of taste of course.

If you tried to convince members of the forum that you were having carnal relations with Ms. Jolie, then you would be attempting deceive us.


Any attempts to defraud or deceive our members may result in your account being suspended

I think that's abundantly clear. Nothing about "targetting" deception. Nothing about "insulting" deception. Deception is bad. It can get your account suspended. The end.

If you want the rules to say something else, feel free to change them.

Ghost
22nd-November-2007, 02:36 PM
Just thinking about the dancing aspect (If Barry really is an Orthodox Rabbi, I really don't mind) you do have Franck.

So when NZ Monkey and I start advocated surprise aerials and drops, it should be a simple matter for Franck to post, "Um you're nuts - this is wrong". His credentials are well known so it's a good reference point.

As I said earlier I think you have to treat what's posted here with a pinch of salt. Amir's suggested that the Forum is a good place to find questions, but you need to look elsewhere for answers.

Hopefully a person wanting to use ideas from here would have the sense to go and check the stuff with someone they know, or at least try it out carefully.

Likewise if the World Champion is posting one thing and a lot of people post another, that's a red flag to tread carefully with the advice.

I think where I'm going is that getting into arguements about credentials on the actual thread is counter-productive. It's better off in another thread, or done through moderators.

As to how heavy-handed you should be? I refer you to the movie "Roadhouse" :wink:

David Bailey
22nd-November-2007, 03:25 PM
I think that's abundantly clear. Nothing about "targetting" deception. Nothing about "insulting" deception. Deception is bad. It can get your account suspended. The end.
Mmm, yeah. Good point. I guess deception, by definition is deception... I'll bear that in mind.

OK, I'll come clean, I'm not boffing either of them. :D

Andy McGregor
22nd-November-2007, 05:54 PM
It is general knowledge he is useless in bed, so that would not be a forum lie :whistle:This is a fact that I'm willing to prove to any group of 3 or more women :devil:

Isis
22nd-November-2007, 05:58 PM
This is a fact that I'm willing to prove to any group of 3 or more women :devil:

You wish to prove you are useless in bed!!!!!! It's ok, I'll take your word for it.

Gus
22nd-November-2007, 06:11 PM
Likewise if the World Champion is posting one thing and a lot of people post another, that's a red flag to tread carefully with the advice.Have I missed the obvious ... but isn't there no such thing as a World Champion? We don't even have a European Champ yet. Come to think of it we don't EVEN have a single UK Champ ... wonder if we could have a 'dance off' between the Champs of all the federations to have a single 'unified' champion ... a la boxing?

OK ... totally off thread, I know ....

Ghost
22nd-November-2007, 06:25 PM
Have I missed the obvious ...
From earlier in the thread....

The problem is that in this instance you and others can get hurt through following bad advice

"In my 237 years experience as a Ceroc World Champion I've found there's nothing women like more than to be surprised by drops - don't ask them, it spoils the surprise. And fast sudden ones with no warning are the best"

:really::tears::sick::angry:

OK Ghost, clearly the poster here is mistaken and nobody in their right mind would take them seriously.

Everybody knows it's the surprise aerials that really float their boat! :devil:

I think the 237 years is mmmmm perhaps a slight exageration? :whistle:



But not that I'm World Champion? :hug::rofl:




I don't know you so for all I know you could be and if you are well - :respect:


And which comp bills themselves as the world champs ??....,



I've been hosting it for the past two centuries. Sadly no-one else ever shows up so I win by default :whistle: (It was intended in the same vein as the 237 year's experience, but also as a 'credible' example of complete fiction)

:wink:

Andy McGregor
22nd-November-2007, 06:25 PM
You wish to prove you are useless in bed!!!!!! It's ok, I'll take your word for it.Oh no, I insist :innocent:

Astro
23rd-November-2007, 03:46 PM
I am sure you would not need to if you are in a relationship with her :drool:
:rofl:

Plus, he'd have to be ambidexterous.

Sheepman
24th-November-2007, 11:51 AM
Have I missed the obvious ... but isn't there no such thing as a World Champion?

There's probably a few Ceroc world champions who are very miffed at this misconception :rofl:
Or not...

Smoooth notes and queries: Various photos (http://djsheepman.blogspot.com/2006/09/monday-4th-september-venue-change.html)

Greg

Gus
24th-November-2007, 01:59 PM
There's probably a few Ceroc world champions who are very miffed at this misconception :rofl: Go on ... name the ones you think are World Champion ... or who think they are World Champions :devil:

Ghost
24th-November-2007, 02:09 PM
Smoooth notes and queries: Various photos (http://djsheepman.blogspot.com/2006/09/monday-4th-september-venue-change.html)

:rofl:
I'm sorry but it so looks like it was written by a seven year old writing their address - all that's missing is "The Universe" :na:

Andy McGregor
24th-November-2007, 04:08 PM
:rofl:
I'm sorry but it so looks like it was written by a seven year old writing their address - all that's missing is "The Universe" :na:I remember chatting with Adam Nathanson about this. He did it because there was a UK Blues Championship (or some such name) at Beach Boogie on the Isle of Wight. His reasoning was that, if they can give a national prize at a dance holiday he can give a world prize. I suppose that anybody in the world could have entered.

Sheepman
24th-November-2007, 06:58 PM
Go on ... name the ones you think are World Champion ... I could name 3 forumites who've held this title for a start, but maybe that would be naming & shaming? :whistle:

Greg

Gus
24th-November-2007, 07:13 PM
I could name 3 forumites who've held this title for a start, but maybe that would be naming & shaming? :whistle:

GregI'm intrigued. Technically speaking (per Olympic style rules) you can only hold a World Championship of you have a single World organisation. Technically you could hold a World Ceroc Championship if Ceroc UK, Ceorc Aussies, Ceroc & MJ Aussie and Cer4oc NZ came to an agreement. No chance of holding a world MJ competition ... we can't even hold a unified UK MJ Competition.


So .... name the three and less us all give praise :wink:

MartinHarper
24th-November-2007, 07:18 PM
He did it because there was a UK Blues Championship (or some such name) at Beach Boogie on the Isle of Wight.

I thought it was a "National Blues Championship". Because the Isle of Wight is actually a seperate nation...

Gus
24th-November-2007, 07:21 PM
I thought it was a "National Blues Championship". Because the Isle of Wight is actually a seperate nation...So as Australia is part of the British Empire then the Ceroc Aussie Champs are actually only a Regional competition? :whistle:

Lou
24th-November-2007, 07:32 PM
:rofl:
I'm sorry but it so looks like it was written by a seven year old writing their address - all that's missing is "The Universe" :na:
Like Andy says, you need to put it in its historical context (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/lets-talk-about-dance/3272-bristol-competition.html#post71149) to understand the humour. :wink:

Andy McGregor
24th-November-2007, 10:35 PM
I'm intrigued. Technically speaking (per Olympic style rules) you can only hold a World Championship of you have a single World organisation. This is rubbish. There is not a single world organisation for boxing but boxing is in the Olympics.

Gus
25th-November-2007, 01:39 AM
This is rubbish. There is not a single world organisation for boxing but boxing is in the Olympics.Strong words ... my belief was based on the problems Taekwando had to get recognised and the ongoing problems for Karate. The following statement may hekp to illustrate
"There is good reason to believe it was this division that led to the long and bitter rivalry between the World Union of Karate-do Organizations (WUKO) and the now-defunct International Amateur Karate Federation (IAKF) for International Olympic Committee (IOC) recognition as the international governing body for amateur karate and the right to oversee all karate competitions at future Olympic Games."

The key aspect is AMATEUR. I know there are three or so professional boxing bodies .... but its all down to the IOC recognising a single amateur body. Boxing as admitted in the early 1900s so maybe this rule wasn't in place ... but without a single body how would you agree who goes through and what criteria? Seems fairly sensible. If I'm wrong, I apologise ... if I'm not I'm sure will apologise young Andy? :rolleyes:

Andy McGregor
25th-November-2007, 12:57 PM
Strong words ... my belief was based on the problems Taekwando had to get recognised and the ongoing problems for Karate. The following statement may hekp to illustrate
"There is good reason to believe it was this division that led to the long and bitter rivalry between the World Union of Karate-do Organizations (WUKO) and the now-defunct International Amateur Karate Federation (IAKF) for International Olympic Committee (IOC) recognition as the international governing body for amateur karate and the right to oversee all karate competitions at future Olympic Games."Gus is arguing from the particular to the general. He has used a single observation to imply a general rule. It is simple to prove that a general rule does not apply - it only takes a single observation to the contrary to prove that assumption of a general rule is incorrect.

All the Olympic Committee did for Taekwondo was choose a single organisation from those claiming to represent Taekwondo. They chose the World Taekwondo Federation. The other organisations within Taekwondo didn't cease to exist, they just had nothing to do with the Taekwondo at the Olympics.

I have no idea about the politics of Karate or the reasons the Olympic Committee have not selected a world organisation to represent Karate. Perhaps there's some behind the scenes politics.


The key aspect is AMATEUR. I know there are three or so professional boxing bodies .... but its all down to the IOC recognising a single amateur body. This is exactly what I said above. They just need to recognise a single amateur body. There could be more than one body. All they Olympic committee need to do is choose one of them.

This is very different from what Gus originally said:


Technically speaking (per Olympic style rules) you can only hold a World Championship of you have a single World organisation.

You do not need to have "a single world organisation" if the Taekwondo example is correct. You just need to choose one from the many.


If I'm wrong, I apologise ... if I'm not I'm sure will apologise young Andy? :rolleyes:
It seems that you are wrong Gus. However, there is no apology required. Were debating ideas and assumptions, not calling each other names or lookin' at each other's birds :whistle:

Dance Demon
25th-November-2007, 10:16 PM
This is rubbish. There is not a single world organisation for boxing but boxing is in the Olympics.

Erm...yes there is. Boxing in the Olympics is at amateur level, and is under the Rules of AIBA, which is the International Amateur Boxing Association. At professional level there are currently four boxing organisations, namely the WBA, WBC, IBF, and the WBO. None of these has any jurisdiction over the olympics.

Andy McGregor
26th-November-2007, 09:08 AM
Erm...yes there is. Boxing in the Olympics is at amateur level, and is under the Rules of AIBA, which is the International Amateur Boxing Association. At professional level there are currently four boxing organisations, namely the WBA, WBC, IBF, and the WBO. None of these has any jurisdiction over the olympics.This is probably true. However, I know it isn't the case for Taekwondo. There are at least two international organisations representing Taekwondo. I know of the *** and the ITF. I used to be a member of the ITF which, I remember, had a longer walking stance than the ***. I think there were other organisations that claimed to also represent Taekwondo. All the Olympic Committee did was select one of them. I expect it was made easy for them as Taekwondo was the exhibition sport when the Olympics were in Korea - *** is the Taekwondo organisation that is run by the Korean government.

edit for some reason W T F has been asterisked. It stands for World Taekwondo Federation :confused:

David Bailey
26th-November-2007, 09:32 AM
edit for some reason W T F has been asterisked. It stands for World Taekwondo Federation :confused:
:rofl: Also stands for "What The F***" - I think the auto-censor also dislikes F F S, for similar reasons.

Andy McGregor
26th-November-2007, 10:20 AM
:rofl: Also stands for "What The F***" - I think the auto-censor also dislikes F F S, for similar reasons.It's the nanny state gone mad. I'm sure you can get a three word insult from any organisations abbreviation if you put your mind to it.

ducasi
26th-November-2007, 01:31 PM
It's the nanny state gone mad. I'm sure you can get a three word insult from any organisations abbreviation if you put your mind to it.
Some three-letter organisations are insults already.

Astro
26th-November-2007, 02:23 PM
Dear DJ

Thanks for the tip off.

I am now being boffed by Brad because Angelina is always exhausted.

Keep it up. :D

Cheers :cheers:

Astro:flower: (size 8)

David Bailey
26th-November-2007, 02:57 PM
There was a point to this thread at some time, wasn't there?

Isis
26th-November-2007, 03:00 PM
There was a point to this thread at some time, wasn't there?

Don't be silly :rolleyes:

Andy McGregor
26th-November-2007, 03:52 PM
There was a point to this thread at some time, wasn't there?All treads end up like this. I think it's called convergent evolution or something :confused:

David Franklin
26th-November-2007, 04:05 PM
There was a point to this thread at some time, wasn't there?http://i.ehow.com/images/ehows/steps/embNeedle_3L.jpg

i.e. it's not the thread that's the point, it's the needling...

Astro
26th-November-2007, 04:07 PM
Dear DJ

Thanks for the tip off.

I am now being boffed by Brad because Angelina is always exhausted.

Keep it up. :D

Cheers :cheers:

Astro:flower: (size 8)


There was a point to this thread at some time, wasn't there?

Ok Quick Quiz

Which is it, A B or C? *


A - I'm collaborating with DJ to mislead people.

B - I have no idea whether DJ is boffing Angelina or not, but I've stepped on the bandwagon to make myelf look good.

C - I've overexaggerated of made a joke that most forumites would get, but others who don't know me, may take it as literal truth.


* Admittedly the Jolie/Pitt example is a bit OTT, but imagine a more plausible scenario.

Andreas
26th-November-2007, 08:00 PM
why would people lie, and why are some of you so distroustful? I myself have had several comments and pm's suggesting i am either some sort of plant or prankster. Its not nice!

Because they think nobody knows or those who do know won't tell. There is a popular person on this forum claiming to have won a competition, which is wrong and the dance form is kinda different, too. :p People try to create an image of themselves and if they do it well, others will believe anything. Just look at me. :innocent:

EDIT: Look, I brought the thread back to topic. Is that a bad thing? :p

Ghost
26th-November-2007, 08:41 PM
Because they think nobody knows or those who do know won't tell. There is a popular person on this forum claiming to have won a competition, which is wrong and the dance form is kinda different, too. :p People try to create an image of themselves and if they do it well, others will believe anything. Just look at me. :innocent:

EDIT: Look, I brought the thread back to topic. Is that a bad thing? :p

Could either the people who know the details of the above contact the Mods, or the Mods contact them, or the Mods just post on this thread
"actually we don't care"

:flower:

David Bailey
26th-November-2007, 08:51 PM
Could either the people who know the details of the above contact the Mods, or the Mods contact them, or the Mods just post on this thread
"actually we don't care"

:flower:
Actually, I don't care :rofl: - to me, someone making a false claim to have won an MJ comp is like someone making a false claim to be extremely ugly and smelly. :D

But, seriously, if someone wants to report a post, feel free - I've been persuaded that general deception is a Bad Thing.

Dreadful Scathe
27th-November-2007, 08:50 PM
Because they think nobody knows or those who do know won't tell. There is a popular person on this forum claiming to have won a competition, which is wrong and the dance form is kinda different, too.



Won a competition in what ? Its all in the specifics :)

Andy McGregor
28th-November-2007, 09:26 AM
Actually, I don't care :rofl: - to me, someone making a false claim to have won an MJ comp is like someone making a false claim to be extremely ugly and smelly. :DThis is false claim that DJ would be unable to make :whistle:

David Bailey
28th-November-2007, 10:26 AM
This is false claim that DJ would be unable to make :whistle:
It's true. I have won a dance competition.

Astro
28th-November-2007, 01:49 PM
It's true. I have won a dance competition.

I know you don't like to blow your own trumpet, but tell us where, when and what, and we'll see if we think it's a valid post. :wink:

David Bailey
28th-November-2007, 01:56 PM
I know you don't like to blow your own trumpet, but tell us where, when and what, and we'll see if we think it's a valid post. :wink:
University of Canterbury, 1988. My partner and I won a £10 Pizza Express voucher.

Amazingly, and scarily, that actually pretty much covered the cost of the meal as I recall :eek: - ahh, the luxury of actually eating in a restaurant :)

Astro
28th-November-2007, 02:16 PM
University of Canterbury, 1988. My partner and I won a £10 Pizza Express voucher.

Amazingly, and scarily, that actually pretty much covered the cost of the meal as I recall :eek: - ahh, the luxury of actually eating in a restaurant :)

Pizza Express has been going 40 years.....amazing.:sick:

Dreadful Scathe
28th-November-2007, 03:11 PM
Pizza Express has been going 40 years.....amazing.:sick:
Is there an "Idiots Guide to Arithmetic" i can get you for christmas ? :)

Astro
28th-November-2007, 03:25 PM
Is there an "Idiots Guide to Arithmetic" i can get you for christmas ? :)

Was googling to check whether it was open in 1988.

Found out that the first one opened in Soho 40 years ago.

But I guess you knew that.:)

David Bailey
28th-November-2007, 03:40 PM
Was googling to check whether it was open in 1988.
Err, why? I mean, God knows, I waste enough time on the infosuperhighway myself, but even I'd think that at bit weird...

Astro
28th-November-2007, 03:57 PM
Err, why? I mean, God knows, I waste enough time on the infosuperhighway myself, but even I'd think that at bit weird...

Check the name of the thread DJ. :rolleyes:

David Bailey
28th-November-2007, 04:04 PM
Check the name of the thread DJ. :rolleyes:
Well, I can see why you'd want to challenge that claim, I mean after all, it's a prestigious title...

Astro
28th-November-2007, 04:14 PM
Well, I can see why you'd want to challenge that claim, I mean after all, it's a prestigious title...

Hang on, hang on, haven't had chance to google Canterbury University Dance Competitions 1988 yet.

Is there a photo?

kiwi_clay
30th-November-2007, 02:21 PM
University of Canterbury, 1988. My partner and I won a £10 Pizza Express voucher.

Amazingly, and scarily, that actually pretty much covered the cost of the meal as I recall :eek: - ahh, the luxury of actually eating in a restaurant :)

Ha I must report this post to the moderators..
University of Canterbury is in Ilam, Christchurch, New Zealand,

Now if you believe you had won it at Canterbury University, I would have to concede the truth of your claim.

David Bailey
30th-November-2007, 04:12 PM
Now if you believe you had won it at Canterbury University, I would have to concede the truth of your claim.
Actually, the official name was University of Kent at Canterbury - so I shortened it, so sue me OK?

Interestingly, there's a Christchurch college in Canters, which used to have a 9:1 female:male student ratio. I danced there a few times... :whistle:

martingold
2nd-December-2007, 07:27 PM
Actually, the official name was University of Kent at Canterbury - so I shortened it, so sue me OK?

Interestingly, there's a Christchurch college in Canters, which used to have a 9:1 female:male student ratio. I danced there a few times... :whistle:
i went to college in canterbury about 1974