Comfort vs cool

[Ghost]

Admittedly from a Tango class, but it expressed something I’ve been thinking about for a long time

"Guys you can dance in one of two ways. You can be cool. Dance all your cool moves. Or you can be comfortable. Dance the moves which feel comfortable. Guys trust me, be comfortable, because that’s where beauty comes from”

I tried just leading moves that were “comfortable” at Ceroc and found to my delight that at the end of the evening my knees didn’t feel like I’d been dancing. Also it allows me to focus much more on the interplay of energy.

I guess it's the bugbear of "comfortable=boring" for some follows that's still bothering me though

Thoughts?

[Feelingpink]

What an interesting theory - is it perhaps your combination of 'comfortable' moves that helps create 'your' dance style? Since every leader would probably choose a different selection of moves, then I can't imagine that followers would get bored ... although leaders might. So perhaps when you get bored, you are able to add more of your own style & personality instead of using your headspace to remember moves?

[NZ Monkey]

I tend to agree with your Tango teacher here. I have more fun trying to play with the music using things I am already familiar with if the music is quite interesting. On a couple of occasions, I’ve even successfully played with the music well using things I’m already…… and when that happens I’ve always gotten big smile from my partner :cool:

Newer moves that are “flash” I try to save for music that isn’t so interesting and think of that as practice getting comfortable enough with it that I can use it more comfortably for my partner. How else can I learn?

There are a few flash moves that I am already comfortable with, and can lead comfortably for my follower as well. These are the ones to save for the payoff moments. They become old hat for your partners if you use them too often :sad:

I’m not really sure I agree entirely with your teacher though. With practice then “cool” and “comfortable” aren’t mutually exclusive but it’s going to feel and eventually look much better if you focus on the “comfortable” side first. Cool doesn’t necessarily have to be big and flash either. Cool can be much more subtle than that, and usually it’s more comfortable when it is.

My 2p.

[tanjive]

I guess by comfortable moves you mean the moves you repeat alot because you can do them with your eyes shut (little thought). Added variety can be achieved by altering tempo etc Still as a leader even when adding playtime it still appears to myself I am doing the same all night. Even as every dance is different and from one song to another totally rearranged. I think no matter what you do there will always be a different view of your range of moves to what followers assess.

My reasoning for this:

I think that followers over a night find a different bunch of moves from each leader in additional to the core that everyone knows. A leader only ever gets to do whatever they know. Therefore a leader will always have completed less than a follewer over the night. The follower obviously has much less choice about what they do do.

Conclusion:
By all means mix it and play with the music as much as possible. That is fun improves your connection and will make a regular move less samey. This is not mutually exclusive to adding some cool moves in occasionally.

[straycat]

I’m not really sure I agree entirely with your teacher though. With practice then “cool” and “comfortable” aren’t mutually exclusive but it’s going to feel and eventually look much better if you focus on the “comfortable” side first. Cool doesn’t necessarily have to be big and flash either. Cool can be much more subtle than that, and usually it’s more comfortable when it is.

:yeah:
While not all my 'comfortable' moves look cool, nothing I do will look cool unless it's comfortable. There's nothing cool about having to try hard...

[David Bailey]

Admittedly from a Tango class, but it expressed something I’ve been thinking about for a long time

"Guys you can dance in one of two ways. You can be cool. Dance all your cool moves. Or you can be comfortable. Dance the moves which feel comfortable. Guys trust me, be comfortable, because that’s where beauty comes from”
Absolutely - that's just another way of expressing the "dance less moves, but dance them well" ethos which is almost consensual wisdom here. If you don't have to think about the form (the moves), then you can think about technique and musicality.

Move monsters exist in Tango too - both male and female (Robo-Ocho-ers, auto-boleo-istas, that sort of thing). What class was it, by the way?

Having said that, a new move is simply a new way of moving - and there's nothing wrong in trying new moves, otherwise how do you ever get comfortable with them?

Personally, it takes me a loooong time (we're talking years here) to take some moves from the "new" to the "comfortable" phase, where they become second nature.

Like all things, it's a balance - yes, you should practice new moves before freestyling them, but at some point you'll have to freestyle them, so they'll have some rough edges.

[Beowulf]

There's nothing cool about having to try hard...

Aaach! I'm dooooooommed!

[Ghost]

What class was it, by the way?
The milonga one at Negracha last Friday.

I think there's a second level to the term "comfortable" for me, along the lines of what FeelingPink said about the comfortable moves defining your style. Some moves have a "rightness" to them for me eg manhattens. It's like dinging a lead crystal glass and getting that clear chime. Other moves I can still lead with my eyes closed, but give more of a "thunk" chime eg the catapult. And then there's moves in between eg the West Manhatten, the quality of which really does depend on the follow (at the moment).

I oscillate around different ways of learning new moves, but at the moment I'm going back to this:
There's a couple of women who enourage me to try new moves on them so they get moves that feel right, but need work on leading. eg at the moment it's a game to see how far I can get through Chaste Hero with one lady (about half-way).

With everyone else I'm going back to just leading moves I know (or strongly believe) they know / can follow and feel comfortable with them cf whether or not to lead west manhattens.

What I've found in the past is that eventually I reach a point where I'll be dancing with someone and "see" the opportunity to lead one of the new moves, rather than having to try for it.

"Do or do not, there is no try" - Yoda

Still mulling though....

[Steven666]

Stay comfortable.

It's much better to do say 50 moves well than 300 moves substandardly.

I was told that a while back and was the soundest bit of help I have heard.

[Ghost]

Stay comfortable.

It's much better to do say 50 moves well
Oh what I'd give to see Beo's face when he reads this :hug:

[David Bailey]

It's much better to do say 50 moves well than 300 moves substandardly.

Well, yeah, but I reckon you're a factor of about 5 out. :D

[Ghost]

Well, yeah, but I reckon you're a factor of about 5 out. :D

You mean I've got to learn 250 moves comfortably! :really:

:whistle:

[David Bailey]

You mean I've got to learn 250 moves comfortably! :really:

:whistle:
Something like that :grin:

Negracha tonight?

[Steven666]

Well, yeah, but I reckon you're a factor of about 5 out. :D

That was an example. I have about 150-200 comfortable moves then then twice as many that are uncomfortable. But variety doesn't mean anything as regards to a good lead. Of course it's best not to repeat yourself but it really doesn't matter.

[David Bailey]

That was an example. I have about 150-200 comfortable moves then then twice as many that are uncomfortable.
Holy God :eek:

I've got about 5-10... in total I reckon...

[Ghost]

Something like that :grin:

Negracha tonight?
Gonna rest up for the T-Jive this weekend instead

Holy God :eek:

I've got about 5-10... in total I reckon...
I'm pretty good at bowing......it's a start ;)

Admittedly it's a different ethos, but I had a great time at tango last Friday dancing the same 6 moves (walk forward, sidestep, step back, step round in a circle...) with the same person for 10 mins :awe: See now why I'm worried about boring my partner?

[MartinHarper]

Of course it's best not to repeat yourself but it really doesn't matter.

The music repeats itself.
Dance to the music.

[Steven666]

Holy God :eek:

I've got about 5-10... in total I reckon...

Erm. Is that comfortable moves?

Insidently I'm counting minor variations from one to another. And there's a fair few first moves in there.

[timbp]

Admittedly from a Tango class, but it expressed something I’ve been thinking about for a long time

"Guys you can dance in one of two ways. You can be cool. Dance all your cool moves. Or you can be comfortable. Dance the moves which feel comfortable. Guys trust me, be comfortable, because that’s where beauty comes from”

One very important factor with tango is the difference between practica and milonga.

I like your quote, and it is how I dance when I go to a milonga -- I do what I feel comfortable with (mostly walking, with an occasionaly backwards ocho).
At a practica, I try to lead everything I've been taught, and usually mess up most of them.

At a Ceroc/Modern Jive class, I lead what was taught in the class even if I can't do it well, and I may lead other moves I can't do well.
At a Ceroc/Modern Jive party, I dance with women who agree to dance with me. I find where they are comfortable and dance to that level, except if I believe they are understimating themselves I will lead something more complex and see how they cope.

In summary, I lead whatever will best suit me and my current partner in the particular situation.

[Ghost]

At a practica, I try to lead everything I've been taught, and usually mess up most of them.
"If you don't make mistakes you won't learn anything" was also mentioned :wink:


In summary, I lead whatever will best suit me and my current partner in the particular situation.
:yeah: