Where you go , I go

[Paul F]

Sorry about the cryptic title but last night I did something that I had always said to myself I would never do......

.....I danced with 1 or 2 people last night that I knew were good dancers and thats it. I was shattered last night and simply didnt want to dance with everyone there....and now i feel guilty.

Is it absolutely wrong to just want to dance with 1 or 2 people all night at a venue?? :confused:

That brings me on to the other point about advanced dancers attending the same venues. This forum and group emails give advanced people (and i use the term advanced with caution to mean any seasoned dancer) the opportunity to arrange and rendezvous at the same venues on the same night.
From the outset this seems fine but is it fair on the other venues?

Most people i know who are good dancers will only go to a certain venue if they KNOW other adv. dancers will be there. I guess i could be guilty of this too now. :sad:

Is this bad and not in-keeping with the ceroc ethic?

[Paul F]

....but they were great dances though pammy!!!


That victor....he is a god!

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Paul F
Sorry about the cryptic title but last night I did something that I had always said to myself I would never do......

.....I danced with 1 or 2 people last night that I knew were good dancers and thats it. I was shattered last night and simply didnt want to dance with everyone there....and now i feel guilty.

And so you should feel guilty:devil: But not as guilty as I feel doing the opposite. Last night at Fleet I was on my usual mission to dance with everyone, they played quite a few fast tracks in a row. I saw a woman dancing really well and very fast with Simon and after giving her a track to rest (in which I danced) I asked her to dance to another fast track. We were doing really well, hitting the breaks, the twiddly bits and everything - other dancers were giving us room, loads of people were watching us, they probably wanted to be us:waycool: Then disaster struck, she went white, said 'sorry' put her hand over her mouth and ran for the loo:sick: :blush: :blush: :blush:

I saw her a bit later in the bar where she apologised for rushing off explaining that she'd been ill for a couple of weeks and had obviously come back to dancing a bit too soon.


Originally posted by Paul F
Is it absolutely wrong to just want to dance with 1 or 2 people all night at a venue?? :confused:


YES. If we all did it all of the time we'd use up the supply of partners and have no-one new to dance with.


Originally posted by Paul F
That brings me on to the other point about advanced dancers attending the same venues. This forum and group emails give advanced people (and i use the term advanced with caution to mean any seasoned dancer) the opportunity to arrange and rendezvous at the same venues on the same night.
From the outset this seems fine but is it fair on the other venues?


Of course people go where their friends go. But they can also arrange for their friends to go to new places with them. Us Sussex dancers do this all of the time and usually have a great night. Dancing with the regulars as well as each other.

Recently we co-ordinated a reunion of 'seasoned' dancers who used to be regulars on a Wednesday at Ceroc in Horsham. About 50 of us turned up, we all wore black and we had Steve Nash really worried. Steve's numbers have been down recently due to problems with the floor so he obviously thought he was on safe ground when he promised to give everyone their money back on the first night in 2003 that over 100 people came along. There were 91 dancers there - if I'd known earlier I'd have paid people watching football in the bar to come in for a couple of minutes :devil: :devil:


Originally posted by Paul F
Most people i know who are good dancers will only go to a certain venue if they KNOW other adv. dancers will be there. I guess i could be guilty of this too now. :sad:

Is this bad and not in-keeping with the ceroc ethic?

From my point of view I look for the music first at a venue. If the music is great I know I'll have a great night. And if it's dreary I know I'll have a dull night no matter how 'seasoned' my partners are. But, funnily enough, I find that the good dancers follow the music. Are we just laboratory mice to the DJ's Pied Piper?

[Pammy]

Originally posted by The Wizard Of Oz
....but they were great dances though pammy!!!

Ah, ok, well in answer to this I should say that

a) They weren't great dances, they were fab dances :grin:

b) You're leaving soon :tears: which means I need to get it while I can (so to speak)

I don't think there's anything wrong with arranging to meet up with each other in a venue (each other means whoever by the way). I say this because lets face it, dancing needs to be social thing as well as just "going somewhere to dance". I would never exclude anyone who wanted to be part of the "meeting at a venue", regardless of their ability as a dancer (hence the chip squad theory when people can go and meet at a venue knowing there will be other friends there and they don't have to worry about being with strangers all night). For me, it's not about meeting up with "great dancers", it's about meeting up with people that I know and have come to really like on the forum (and dare I say it, would class as friends??!!:really: ).

Paul, neither of us would have got where we are without really trying hard and pushing ourselves to the limits. We both know that neither of us have been dancing for long at all, we are both dance addicts, we go four times a week, sometimes five. If occasionally we arrange to meet up with others for the mere purpose of really cracking on with some complex moves (as we did last night) what's wrong with that? Let's face it, we're both at a stage where we really can benefit from a night like last nights.

St. Albans has such a great floor and we had to use it to it's best potential last night and I think we really benefitted from spending some quality time working on moves like "the victor" or whatever it was. I think that we probably made more progress last night than sometimes we do in weeks.

I have seen people go in there and only dance with each other all night on many occasions (most weeks infact). To this I will add that there are still plenty of advanced dancers who don't enjoy dancing with me (you know who you are!!!) so I don't feel guilty.

It's all swings and roundabouts. We weren't turning people down; or avoiding anyone. Anyone who wanted a dance last night got one, it's just that we stayed on the floor a lot working hard! :grin:

Pammy :-)

PS Can't believe they'd lost All That Jazz! :tears:

[stewart38]

Andy said 'people were giving us room'

was that to watch you or not get hit ? :rolleyes:

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by stewart38
Andy said 'people were giving us room'

was that to watch you or not get hit ? :rolleyes:

It was one of those moments when a corner empties at the end of a track and you just fill it with big moves and loads of footwork so everyone seems to choose to dance in a space somewhere else:wink:

On the other hand they could have seen the colour my partners face went and decided to stay out of range :sick:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Toto
Most people i know who are good dancers will only go to a certain venue if they KNOW other adv. dancers will be there. I guess i could be guilty of this too now. :sad:

Is this bad and not in-keeping with the ceroc ethic?

Reading this again, this almost sounds like a compliment???!!! :grin:

Actually, I would like to point out a couple more facts regarding this. Certain people that you know well to dance with (whether they're good dancers, or mediocre dancers, it's irrelevant), but people that you have developed a "trust" with, a certain dance relationship, you can work with that.

By this I mean, I am confident that the Wiz knows my weight, knows my style, knows what I'm capable of: the victor, and what I'm not: the lock of death. We can have a laugh, although people probably can't hear the things we're saying, like "I'll get you for that", or "get out my space" etc. :wink: and I feel confident and happy trying new, and potentially dangerous stuff with him that I wouldn't want to do with other people; at least until I've mastered it with an expert like the Wiz who I am comfortable with. This benefits everyone in the long run as it makes us both better dances for the others when they get us again.

Sometimes though, people see us doing stuff, then when I move on, other dancers try and do the same. There was one guy in there last night who insists on doing arials right, slap-bang in the middle of a crowded floor and he's always off balance and bashing into people, and he terrifies me. Once he did a really complex drop completely wrong and I ended up millimetres from the floor and he said "Hhhh, you're not supposed to end up there! :angry: !"

Anyway, it's good to be able to spend quality time with someone you trust enough to do that stuff, and these people are few and far between. :grin:

Pammy
x

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Pammy
By this I mean, I am confident that the Wiz knows my weight, knows my style, knows what I'm capable of: the victor, and what I'm not: the lock of death. We can have a laugh, although people probably can't hear the things we're saying, like "I'll get you for that", or "get out my space" etc. :wink: and I feel confident and happy trying new, and potentially dangerous stuff with him that I wouldn't want to do with other people; at least until I've mastered it with an expert like the Wiz who I am comfortable with. This benefits everyone in the long run as it makes us both better dances for the others when they get us again.

Sometimes though, people see us doing stuff, then when I move on, other dancers try and do the same. There was one guy in there last night who insists on doing arials right, slap-bang in the middle of a crowded floor and he's always off balance and bashing into people, and he terrifies me. Once he did a really complex drop completely wrong and I ended up millimetres from the floor and he said "Hhhh, you're not supposed to end up there! :angry: !"

Anyway, it's good to be able to spend quality time with someone you trust enough to do that stuff, and these people are few and far between. :grin:

Pammy
x

I'm planning to dance with Pammy at Beach Boogie tomorrow. But now I'm scared, will I measure up? I don't know the Victor, the lock of death or any air steps as a man :blush:

And I'm so old I don't even think in millimetres :confused:

Please be gentle with me :eek:

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Paul F
I was shattered last night and simply didnt want to dance with everyone there....and now i feel guilty. Is it absolutely wrong to just want to dance with 1 or 2 people all night at a venue??Don't feel guilty. You should never feel compelled to dance if you don't want to. If you were expected to dance to every song, it would be called an aerobics class, not a freestyle dance.

I went to Woking on Monday, and think I only had 10 dances all night. I just didn't have the energy for any more. But I enjoyed myself, had a good evening, didn't turn down the 3 ladies who asked me to dance, didn't hurt anyone. So why should I feel guilty?

David

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by DavidB
Don't feel guilty. You should never feel compelled to dance if you don't want to. If you were expected to dance to every song, it would be called an aerobics class, not a freestyle dance.

I went to Woking on Monday, and think I only had 10 dances all night. I just didn't have the energy for any more. But I enjoyed myself, had a good evening, didn't turn down the 3 ladies who asked me to dance, didn't hurt anyone. So why should I feel guilty?

David

Because you only went for the free ice cream:wink:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I'm planning to dance with Pammy at Beach Boogie tomorrow. But now I'm scared, will I measure up? I don't know the Victor, the lock of death or any air steps as a man :blush:

And I'm so old I don't even think in millimetres :confused:

Please be gentle with me :eek:

I don't know, how do you measure? In metric will do! :wink:

Don't be scared. Shame the Wiz isn't coming as he could show you the lock of death and the victor.

I'll be gentle with you, if you're gentle with me, but remember, whatever happens, don't pull my emergency cord! :wink:

Px

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Pammy

I'll be gentle with you, if you're gentle with me, but remember, whatever happens, don't pull my emergency cord! :wink:

Px

If it all goes horribly wrong I'm planning to use the exits on to the wings. I would be grateful if those of you next to the exit doors put their bags in the overhead lockers so I can leave quickly when Pammy get out her tape measure:blush:

[TheTramp]

Getting back to the original question :what:

I don't think that it's wrong sometimes (all the time?) to turn up, and only want to dance with your friends, or people you like dancing with.

After all. You've paid your money to go for your night out. Why should you do anything you don't want to do?!?

Having said that, it would be a shame if people were like that, so it's a good job that they're not usually :D

And while most nights I'll try and dance with lots of people, there are some nights when I'll really only feel like dancing with a certain few. Unless I'm asked of course. I usually try to dance with anyone who asks me, unless there's a good reason not to....

Steve

[Pammy]

Originally posted by TheTramp
I usually try to dance with anyone who asks me, unless there's a good reason not to....

What, unless I'm there and you accidentally mix up Tuesdays and Wednesday :wink: :wink: :wink:

Px

[TheTramp]

I did say, 'unless there's a good reason not to.....'

You being there on the wrong day seems like a good reason to me! :D

Steve

[Pammy]

Originally posted by TheTramp
You being there on the wrong day seems like a good reason to me! :D

You're so cruel to lil' old me! How will I survive in November??!!

You do know it's NEXT Saturday we're meeting up don't you!

(makes mental note to add a cockroach to Trampys chips :devil:)

Pxx

PS Where's the Wiz gone, he's posted a thread, then buggered off and left us all to it! :wink:

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by TheTramp
I usually try to dance with anyone who asks me, unless there's a good reason not to....

Steve

The tramp is a true gent. The only reason the he's given for rejecting me is that he's hurt his foot/ankle/wrist/paw/etc.

And I think he had hard pad and distemper for a while:devil:

[Paul F]

Originally posted by Pammy


PS Where's the Wiz gone, he's posted a thread, then buggered off and left us all to it! :wink:

I have been trying to work out what i do for my job. I spend so long reading the forum I have forgotten what im here for !!! :what:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Paul F
I have been trying to work out what i do for my job. I spend so long reading the forum I have forgotten what im here for !!! :what:

If you remember what I do for a living, let me know! :wink:

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Paul F
I have been trying to work out what i do for my job. I spend so long reading the forum I have forgotten what im here for !!! :what:

Isn't our job to read and write in the Forum:confused:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Isn't our job to read and write in the Forum:confused:

Yeah, that's it.... I think :confused:

[Emma]

Originally posted by Paul F
.....I danced with 1 or 2 people last night that I knew were good dancers and thats it. I was shattered last night and simply didnt want to dance with everyone there....and now i feel guilty.

Is it absolutely wrong to just want to dance with 1 or 2 people all night at a venue?? :confused:
I don't think so..everyone has nights when they are too tired or not feeling that sociable or whatever..provided you don't actually turn people down who ask you because they are not part of your golden 1 or 2 I think it's entirely reasonable to do that on occasion. If you were doing it *every* time you danced that would be a different matter :nice:
~snip~

Most people I know who are good dancers will only go to a certain venue if they KNOW other adv. dancers will be there. I guess i could be guilty of this too now. :sad: I think this is a huge pity. Obviously people want to dance with their friends - and that's part of the joy of dancing for me now that I have made so many good ones through Ceroc, but if the so-called 'advanced' dancers (and really I think seasoned or possibly experienced is a much better way of putting it...) dance only in certain places with certain people then they are really missing out on the possibility of meeting new people, helping other people to advance their dancing, and meeting new friends. :grin:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Emma
the so-called 'advanced' dancers (and really I think seasoned or possibly experienced is a much better way of putting it...) dance only in certain places with certain people then they are really missing out on the possibility of meeting new people, helping other people to advance their dancing, and meeting new friends. :grin:

I don't think this could apply to the Wiz as he's become more sociable in the last two months than he ever has been :grin:

The ones I hate most, aside from the "advanced" types, are the ones that some weeks are all over you saying "hello, how are you etc." and the following week, when their mates obviously turn up, they make out they've never seen you before! Now that's what bugs me!

Luckily, there are too many nice people out there to let this become an issue! :grin:

Px

[Paul F]

Originally posted by Emma
I........ they are really missing out on the possibility of meeting new people, helping other people to advance their dancing, and meeting new friends. :grin:

Good point Emma.

Im wondering how many people (posters and non-posters) are sitting reading this thinking "oh dear, im one of those people" :blush:

[Emma]

Originally posted by Pammy
The ones I hate most, aside from the "advanced" types, are the ones that some weeks are all over you saying "hello, how are you etc." and the following week, when their mates obviously turn up, they make out they've never seen you before! Now that's what bugs me! Ha ha, yes, I'm with you on that one :grin:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Emma
Ha ha, yes, I'm with you on that one :grin:

Me too. I know a few; could name and shame, but that would be no fun! :wink:

Px

[Bill]

Agree that it would be rather elitist if a dancer went to a venue and only danced with a few friends every week.

I was probably guilty of this last week when the glittery Laura came up from Manchester. As she is only here a few times a year we did dance quite a lot together so I didn't feel too guilty.

and on Saturday at the Edinburgh party I didn't dance too much as I was having a pretty bad dance night so felt it was better to sit and watch for a while.

As Emma says it's fun meeting new people and good to have a range of dances. However, it is great to have a dance with someone you dance really well with.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Bill
and on Saturday at the Edinburgh party I didn't dance too much as I was having a pretty bad dance night so felt it was better to sit and watch for a while.


aha...now i know why i was dancing well - i somehow gained your super-powers for the evening :D

[Bill]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
aha...now i know why i was dancing well - i somehow gained your super-powers for the evening :D


so that's why you were wearing a pair of tights and knickers over the top :eek: .... I usually wear mine underneath my trousers - excpet when I have the red shoes on :wink:

[Boomer]

Personally I can’t really see the problem in only dancing – meaning asking? – with a few people, provided that, by and large, when asked to dance one accepts. How ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ it is to only ever ask friends/advanced dancers is, I thing, a question without a definitive answer. I think if one were to turn down an invite from a newby/stranger and then pounce/accept a dance from a friend, then yes, there is something....’wrong’ is the wrong word..but, well, just not on. I say this because I’m still at the stage where asking someone to ‘dance’ is still quite daunting, so when asked to dance I must say yes – how can I say no when someone has the guts to do something I can’t face yet? Which prompts me to a small question – how do you dance-gods feel when the person you have asked to dance goes pale and whispers ‘I’ve only done 3 classes’? Knowing that the next 3-4 mins are going to be Lady-spin, catapult, step-across and shoulder-slide, in roughly that sequence, and with a ‘beginners grace’?

[Andy McGregor]

A few years ago I found a quote about the different stages of dancing. It went something, but not very much, like this;

Beginner - Knows nothing, does beginners moves badly, dances with anyone
Intermediate - Knows a lot of moves does advanced moved badly, dances with intermediates
Hotshot Dancer - Knows everything, only does advanced moves, too good to dance with anyone
Great Dancer - Would like to know more, does beginners moves brilliantly, dances with everyone, especially beginners.

I've always aspired to being a great dancer. I know I'm too old/short/stupid to be up there with Nigel and Viktor but one of my objectives is to dance with everyone. And I really do enjoy it.

And because I dance with everyone I even ask those frosty, forbidding looking 'expert' women that only seem to dance with the Hotshots. Often, once I've broken the ice by blowing in their ear or something else silly, the ice melts and they start treating me like I'm no longer sub-human - at other times they don't crack a smile at all:tears: But I'm so stupid I don't let that put me off and ask them again the next week:devil: They can always say no when I ask. A qualified 'no' is always received graciously by me even when I know it's a white lie i.e. taking a break, hurt ankle, promised this dance to Nigel/Viktor/Other Deity. BUT the insulting, look you up-and-down then distainfully say no and turn away is always received as an insult.

My rationale for this is as follows;

1. They've paid between £5 and £10 to come and dance so they like dancing and they've come to do it.
2. They've said they don't want to dance with me and have given no other reason for turning me down.
3 It's not that they don't want to dance, they've paid to do that so they really do want to dance.
4 Therefore, it's personal, when they turn me down and give no reason they don't want to dance with me in particular:tears:

And I always assume that single 'No' is permanent.

For myself, I love being asked to dance and never, EVER say no. In my first few years of dancing modern jive I used to have to hide outside to get a rest I was so popular :D Then I lost my looks and am now hardly ever asked and can sit at the side to take a break:tears: Except at Hipsters where it's like being young again and people ask me to dance all the time :D :D :D

But then maybe it's because all the other guys at Hipsters are even uglier than me :devil: :devil:

[Emma]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Hotshot Dancer - Knows everything, only does advanced moves, too good to dance with anyone
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Neil]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Beginner - Knows nothing, dances with anyone
Intermediate - Knows a bit, dances with intermediates
Hotshot Dancer - Knows everything, too good to dance with anyone
Great Dancer - Does beginners moves, dances with everyone :rofl: Great quote! I'm very far from being a great dancer, but one thing I've noticed about the really outstanding dancers is that they like to keep it simple (apart from comps and cabarets, I suppose, where they're obliged to throw in a few flashy moves). And, of course, if you're more focussed on dancing rather than just doing moves, then you can dance with anyone. It's almost Zen-like: when you gain enlightenment as to the true nature of dancing, it's as if you've come full circle (insert smiley for daft pseudo-profundity here).


BUT the insulting, look you up-and-down then distainfully say no and turn away is always received as an insult. Do you get a lot of this, Andy? :) Maybe I've been lucky, but whenever women turn me down they've always had the decency to come up with some sort of excuse, however transparent. On the other hand, I don't often bother asking "frosty, forbidding looking 'expert' women" - life's too short!

Cheers,

Neil

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Boomer
how do you dance-gods feel when the person you have asked to dance goes pale and whispers ‘I’ve only done 3 classes’? Knowing that the next 3-4 mins are going to be Lady-spin, catapult, step-across and shoulder-slide, in roughly that sequence, and with a ‘beginners grace’?

Hardly a "dance-god" - maybe in my next life or the one after that - but I do feel strongly about this one. Any guy that rates himself in any way at all on the dance floor might like to ask himself these questions when dancing with a new partner for the first time:

- can he identify within the first few seconds of the dance 'where she's at' in terms of experience and following ability?

- can he ensure that if she's a fairly new beginner, he will lead only moves that she can follow?

- does he realise that dancing with a new beginner in freestyle brings with it a certain responsibility - to make her feel good on the dance floor?

Actually these questions also apply when dancing with more experienced dancers, but they're particularly important with beginners who might not yet be all that confident.

If the answers to these questions are 'yes', then dancing with new beginners can be a real pleasure. Dancing a few simple moves that they can follow easily, with plenty of eye contact, smiles and encouragement, will give them a positive experience and make them want to come back again (and might even fool them into believing you're a dance-god :) )

Whereas trying to show off with complicated moves that they can't yet follow (or maybe that you can't yet lead :) ) will only make them feel foolish and incompetent, so don't do it.

Chris

[DavidB]

Originally posted by ChrisA
- can he ensure that if she's a fairly new beginner, he will lead only moves that she can follow? This doesn't necessarily mean moves she has done, or just regular beginners moves. It depends on the look you get if you do something slightly different. Is it the "Wow - I didn't know I could do that" look, or the "Help - I haven't done that move before" look.



Originally posted by Boomer
when the person you have asked to dance goes pale and whispers ‘I’ve only done 3 classes’? Knowing that the next 3-4 mins are going to be Lady-spin, catapult, step-across and shoulder-slide, in roughly that sequence, and with a ‘beginners grace’? The one thing you can guarantee about every dancer out there is that they were also beginners at one time.

And with a beginner, you can almost guarantee that the last minute of the song will be better than the first, because the rate of improvement is so high. With intermediates it might be noticable one week to the next, or one month to the next, and for advanced dancers it might be one year to the next. But only beginners can show a marked improvement within one dance. That in itself is worth the dance.

But if I know the song is particularly challenging (eg 'Peel Me A Grape' by Diana Krall) I would avoid asking someone I knew to be a beginner. One difficult dance can really hit someone's confidence.

David

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Neil
:rofl:
Do you get a lot of this, Andy? :) Maybe I've been lucky, but whenever women turn me down they've always had the decency to come up with some sort of excuse, however transparent. On the other hand, I don't often bother asking "frosty, forbidding looking 'expert' women" - life's too short!

Cheers,

Neil

Hi Neil

In statistical terms you are only selectively sampling the population of the room. And as you don't ask certain types of woman you probably omit the kind of girl that would turn you down flat. I allow myself no such luxury. My reasoning is that once I've asked nearly every girl in the room it would look obvious that I was leaving some out. Although the only one watching me is that voice in my head (some psychologists call it 'already, always listening' whatever that means) that talks to me all the time - he/she is my greatest critic.

Even then, I've only get this 'NO' reaction once or twice a year. But I do remember it as it dents my ego. When it's happenned it's usually been a very attractive woman that's probably used to men hitting on her and giving them the brush off. Maybe they hear something else when I ask them for a dance. But they do say yes to some guys so I still feel justified in taking it personally - those guys are usually tall/slim/young/sexy/etc :tears:

[Boomer]

Ah, but when you’re at the bottom of the hole looking up, everyone is a god. :nice: . ChrisA, you’re points are spot on. In case it hasn’t been guessed, I’m one of the Ashen-faced, 3 classes and 4 moves brigade, and was twice on the receiving end of someone who could and did answer yes to the questions you asked. I’m no great mover, but thanks to those ladies I walked of the floor feeling as if I floated –ladies I forget you’re names but remember your faces, thank you.:hug:


Originally posted by Neil
... one thing I've noticed about the really outstanding dancers is that they like to keep it simple
Neil

Going out on a limb here, but again, absolutely agree, and a lesson well learnt elsewhere. Years ago (when life was in black and white and we spoke in subtitles with a piano playing in the background Andy M probably remembers those days:D ) I used to do karate. Within a week or two I could spot the ‘lightning-fast-hands-quicker-than-the-eyes’ movers from a mile away. This was simply because there ‘routine’ was short, simple and consisted of a series of well-practised thoroughly studied moves. They quite simply wiped the floor with Mr McGregor’s ‘Hotshot dancer’ in competition or dojo-sparring.

Mr McGregor, I see your self-depreciation and false modesty have been attacked elsewhere on this post, there is nothing more I can add....BLOWING IN THEIR EARS! My god you’ve got some bottle:rofl: I can see me trying that, and getting a swift knee in return .

Originally posted by Andy McGregor

But they do say yes to some guys so I still feel justified in taking it personally - those guys are usually tall/slim/young/sexy/etc :tears:

“Age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm”, I picked up that quote from a 60 year-old who once bounced me around the dojo for 5 mins....and I never did get my own back. Andy, youth is wasted on the young
:grin: .

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Boomer
Going out on a limb here, but again, absolutely agree, and a lesson well learnt elsewhere. Years ago (when life was in black and white and we spoke in subtitles with a piano playing in the background Andy M probably remembers those days:D ) I used to do karate. Within a week or two I could spot the ‘lightning-fast-hands-quicker-than-the-eyes’ movers from a mile away. This was simply because there ‘routine’ was short, simple and consisted of a series of well-practised thoroughly studied moves. They quite simply wiped the floor with Mr McGregor’s ‘Hotshot dancer’ in competition or dojo-sparring.

Mr McGregor, I see your self-depreciation and false modesty have been attacked elsewhere on this post, there is nothing more I can add....BLOWING IN THEIR EARS! My god you’ve got some bottle:rofl: I can see me trying that, and getting a swift knee in return .

Andy, youth is wasted on the young
:grin: .

Years ago I was one of those lightning fast hands/feet guys. Then I slowed down a bit and had to get crafty. And, as Master Rhee said to me one day 'It no matter how big you are, it no matter how hard you train - someone poke finger in eye - hurt like f**k!' From then on I decided to try poking fingers in eyes rather than attacking bricks and wood that never hurt anyone:what:

I am not being falsely modest or self-deprecating. I'm an experienced dancer and as such find it especially demeaning when I get turned down for a dance because it isn't because I'm not a good enough dancer - it must be something else about me :tears:

The blowing in the ears thing is to get their attention. There are some moves that only look right when they look lovingly into your eyes. There's even a move called the Love Seat that really does need them to look your way. It needs both hands, it would spoil the moment if you shouted, so a quick blow in the ear usually works just fine :wink:

And the bit about youth being wasted on the young. I heard a much better quote in Cracker which is "Young women are wasted on young men":devil:

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor

I am not being falsely modest or self-deprecating. I'm an experienced dancer and as such find it especially demeaning when I get turned down for a dance because it isn't because I'm not a good enough dancer - it must be something else about me :tears:

No mate, I think it's safe to say it's not something about you. As for the Cracker quote -chin-chin :cheers::devil: :devil: And the 'Love seat!?! ':blush: I got all coy leading the ladies intho the shoulder slide last night...and that was in a lesson:tears: What do I do when the 'Love seat' crops up:what:

Giving the topic a passing nod - personally, I fully intend to be one of those 'good and nice' dancers...eventually:nice: The feeling I got last night from a fellow beginner after going over the 'catapult' to a whole song with her was fantastic. The whole 'eyes going wide, breathless giggle, scream 'oh my god I can do it'' is beyond words....her reaction was nice as well:D

[michael]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Quote from Boomer: The feeling I got last night from a fellow beginner after going over the 'catapult' to a whole song with her was fantastic. The whole 'eyes going wide, breathless giggle, scream 'oh my god I can do it'' is beyond words....her reaction was nice as well.

I must log off before i fall off the chair. Cheered up level at maximum once again, really puts you in the mood for the Ceroc Dance tonight. Will forget about the extra move to practice for the last two posts are much more beneficial (having fun versus -boosting limited moves = no competition really:D )

Pity you could not come to Glasgow dance tonight Boomer it is an Australian party weekend thing. Afterwhich you'd probaly want to come back again and again:cheers:

[Boomer]

Originally posted by michael
[BPity you could not come to Glasgow dance tonight Boomer it is an Australian party weekend thing. Afterwhich you'd probaly want to come back again and again:cheers: [/B]

Fear not, since joining this forum and discovered that it really is as friendly as people say. Have found myself looking north, with a distant expression more and more lately...I have a feeling my feet will soon start to itch.

Esp if there's a chance of catching ANY zydeco on the dancefloor! :waycool: :cheers:

[Neil]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
In statistical terms you are only selectively sampling the population of the room. And as you don't ask certain types of woman you probably omit the kind of girl that would turn you down flat. Andy, I'm sure that's true. I would rather ask a smiley woman whom I've already danced with that night to dance again rather than risk rejection from a frosty hotshot. More power to your elbow for spreading yourself around so equitably! However, I don't have any hard and fast rules; I do sometimes ask frosty hotshots to dance and, as I'm sure you'll confirm, more often than not they're only frosty on the exterior. :)


Even then, I've only get this 'NO' reaction once or twice a year. Given the vast quantities of women you must ask to dance in a year, that's not bad going. I'd hate Boomer or other newbies to get the impression that flat-out rejection is a serious risk when asking a woman to dance. In my experience the overwhelming majority of ladies in Ceroc/MJ are extremely friendly and can always come up with a plausible excuse when they don't want to dance with you. :grin:

I think we've been over this ground in other threads, but most people seem to agree that no one should feel obliged to dance with anyone they don't want to dance with; however, just saying 'no' without giving a reason is pretty poor.

(Incidentally, I'm obviously writing from a male perspective, but I'm sure these remarks apply equally the other way round, i.e. for ladies asking men to dance).

Cheers,

Neil

[spindr]

Well, I like to maintain the illusion at least after the DJ plays the first tune, by asking with:

"Are you resting? Or would you care to dance?"

If I get turned down -- very rarely happens --- then it must be because the lady's tired.

Well, at least that's what I like to think, anyway :)

Neil.

[Lounge Lizard]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor

I am not being falsely modest or self-deprecating. I'm an experienced dancer and as such find it especially demeaning when I get turned down for a dance because it isn't because I'm not a good enough dancer - it must be something else about me :tears:



If you get turned down it may just be that the lady does not find your style of dancing suits their style - we both know leading dancers from our area where this is the case. I have a very good friend that I just cannot dance well with, she will always ask the guy next to me, nothing personal we just dont click on the dance floor, We are friends and are open about it.
However it must be difficult for a lady to say 'sorry I dont like your style' so a polite no is fine.

I think the ladies should pick up on this thread with what it is like to be left on the seat all night.:sad:
It is ok to say 'ask the guy' but I know a lot of ladies (at least one that has taught at Hipsters) who never has and never will ask a stranger to dance.:blush:

If we get turned down big deal, there are nearly always other ladies to dance with and as we are all there to enjoy ourselves choice must sometime be allowed. Have you ever avoided asking a lady to dance for a genuine reason?

Ladies please smile!! ;) [I know most do] At a recent event (I was the DJ) I watched one lady sit out dance after dance while everyone around her was being asked. :sad: Why? Because IMHO she never returned eye contact and never seemed to smile (even when dancing) ;)

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Neil

Given the vast quantities of women you must ask to dance in a year, that's not bad going. I'd hate Boomer or other newbies to get the impression that flat-out rejection is a serious risk when asking a woman to dance. In my experience the overwhelming majority of ladies in Ceroc/MJ are extremely friendly and can always come up with a plausible excuse when they don't want to dance with you. :grin:
Neil

Just to put Boomers mind at rest, if it wasn't already, one of the really good things about modern jive is that you get to meet and dance with hundreds of people. And, almost without exception, they're friendly. I think it's a PLU thing. Unfriendly people might come along but find it's not the place for them and try something different. On the other hand, friendly people come along and meet loads of people like themselves - so they keep on coming:waycool:

Don't ask me where those unfriendly people go when they find dancing too friendly, but wherever it is it must be like a porcupines convention:devil:


Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
If you get turned down it may just be that the lady does not find your style of dancing suits their style - we both know leading dancers from our area where this is the case. I have a very good friend that I just cannot dance well with, she will always ask the guy next to me, nothing personal we just dont click on the dance floor, We are friends and are open about it.
However it must be difficult for a lady to say 'sorry I dont like your style' so a polite no is fine.

If we get turned down big deal, there are nearly always other ladies to dance with and as we are all there to enjoy ourselves choice must sometime be allowed. Have you ever avoided asking a lady to dance for a genuine reason?



There are a few women who my style doesn't match. And I know who they are and I don't put them through that pain once I've worked out we're never going to be able to dance nicely together - sometimes I even sit a track out and have a chat with them. Conversely, there is another small group of women who my style doesn't match who ask me to dance all the time - should I say 'no' to them? I don't think so - it's just 3 minutes and they obviously want to dance with me.

I agree with the polite 'no' thing. Nice women are well practiced at not damaging our fragile egos so they usually give us a nice smiley 'no' usually accompanied by some reason not do dance with us - but a tiny minority of them don't even realise there is a need for them to be nice - and I think we all know the difference:tears:

The only reason I 'avoid' asking a lady to dance is if she's given me a blunt 'no' in the past - and even then I ask some months later to see if she's joined the human race.


Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Ladies please smile!! ;) [I know most do] At a recent event (I was the DJ) I watched one lady sit out dance after dance while everyone around her was being asked. :sad: Why? Because IMHO she never returned eye contact and never seemed to smile (even when dancing) ;)

I ALWAYS ask non-smiling/slippery-eyed women like this to dance. If I notice someone sitting out dance after dance I make sure I grab her as soon as I can no matter how little she smiles or meets my eye. Part of the challenge is to get her to smile/laugh/meet my eye - but I also know that on some level they want to dance - othewise they wouldn't have come:waycool:

One of the women who is often seen not smiling at the side of the floor is Nina Daines! She even tells me that she doesn't get asked to dance much. She's absolutely lovely to dance with and although her reputation as one of the top dancers makes her a bit scary to approach she is an absolutely lovely person:hug:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Boomer
Knowing that the next 3-4 mins are going to be Lady-spin, catapult, step-across and shoulder-slide, in roughly that sequence, and with a ‘beginners grace’?

Well, all I can say is, one of my favourite dancers is a beginner. He may only know a few moves, but it's already clear that he's going to be a great dancer as he really interprets the music well, and has a fabulous personality and is great fun to dance with. I'd rather dance with him than some people with bags of experience. :grin:

Px

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Just to put Boomers mind at rest, if it wasn't

Fear not Me McGregor! One of the first thing I realised is that the people at Ceroc are VERY friendly. I think I have attracted (not in the phwoar sense) the female versions of you:what: ! They see me sitting there, avoiding eye-contact and not smiling and make a bee-line for me! :tears: or :D I still dont know :nice: You're quite right, if they (me) didn't want to dance, they (me) wouldn't be there.

While now, I never say 'no' - even if it is a tentative 'yes' - I did, after my first ever class turn down 2 invites. sorry, but I was so overwhelmed with nerves it was never going to happen:sad: They were very gracious about it...'Oh! Ceroc Virgin 'cackle cackle cackle' We'll get you next time!'.. one of them did too! This week I shall be mostly asking women to dance, especially those who have approached me its only fair me thinks.

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Boomer
Fear not Me McGregor! One of the first thing I realised is that the people at Ceroc are VERY friendly. I think I have attracted (not in the phwoar sense) the female versions of you:what: ! They see me sitting there, avoiding eye-contact and not smiling and make a bee-line for me! :tears: or :D I still dont know :nice: You're quite right, if they (me) didn't want to dance, they (me) wouldn't be there.

While now, I never say 'no' - even if it is a tentative 'yes' - I did, after my first ever class turn down 2 invites. sorry, but I was so overwhelmed with nerves it was never going to happen:sad: They were very gracious about it...'Oh! Ceroc Virgin 'cackle cackle cackle' We'll get you next time!'.. one of them did too! This week I shall be mostly asking women to dance, especially those who have approached me its only fair me thinks.

I think Boomer is a great asset to the Forum. He reminds us what it was like to be a Ceroc Virgin. To paraphrase Madonna, wasn't it great when everything was shiny and new? For me it recalls the days when I was taught a move called the combine harvester which I didn't know how to stop and had to leave to the end and only had one move which changed hands from left to right to a handshake hold and none to get me back again! You knew you had to be there at the beginning of the beginners lesson otherwise you wouldn't be able to keep up. Nowadays I try to get there before the end of the beginners lesson and join in so I know what the beginners did - the challenge for me is to join in as late as possible and still, hopefully, get it.

Enjoy this time Mr Boomer. The good news is that it gets even better, different, but definitely better:D The bad news is that you start getting fussy about the floor, music, your shoes, your clothes, the heat, the teaching, big headed Hotshots, rudeness, etc :really:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
The bad news is that you start getting fussy about the floor, music, your shoes, your clothes, the heat, the teaching, big headed Hotshots, rudeness, etc :really:

Smoking???

How could you forget Andy!!! :really:

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Beginner - Knows nothing, does beginners moves badly, dances with anyone

Hmm.. in my case that'll be
Beginner - Knows nothing, does beginners moves badly, dances with no-one.

On the occaisional days I do feel like coming to dancing I paymy money at the door and have my lesson at the start of the class. then I like to sit out and watch the other people dancing , seing how they fit moves together and how they embellish and personalise the moves.

I'm not confident enough to attempt freestyle dances despite being to the beginners workshops. But I always feel really bad when ladies come up asking me to dance. I always get the feeling that it's a "sympathy dance" that they feel sorry for me. I feel quilty when I tell them that I don't want to dance and I'm just watching. As you say, I've paid my money to get in and have the lesson, I shouldn't feel compelled to dance every dance. I know I'm not going to get any more confident or a better dancer sitting on the sidelines everynight , but surely that's my perogative?

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
One of the women who is often seen not smiling at the side of the floor is Nina Daines! She even tells me that she doesn't get asked to dance much.


Now this I find hard to believe. At Hipsters where I see her quite often, she is tremendously in demand. To get a dance with such a goddess (unless you're an equivalent deity) requires nerves of steel, and an impeccable sense of timing...

... to ensure that one is in exactly the right place at the end of her previous dance so that you can make the request natural and not look like you've been waiting to pounce. :waycool:



She's absolutely lovely to dance with and although her reputation as one of the top dancers makes her a bit scary to approach she is an absolutely lovely person

This, however, is absolutely true. In fact she is largely responsible for me not giving up dancing completely about 18 months ago, for which I remain incredibly grateful.

Chris

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
I know I'm not going to get any more confident or a better dancer sitting on the sidelines everynight , but surely that's my perogative?

Indeed, but for someone who takes an alias after 'The exceptionally brave and strong Great hero Beowulf' theres obviously more to you than people see in public. Is it much of a step to express Beowulf on the dance floor ? :). Dance for yourself and your partner and no one else - forget there is anyone else in the room :)

[David Franklin]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Indeed, but for someone who takes an alias after 'The exceptionally brave and strong Great hero Beowulf' theres obviously more to you than people see in public. Is it much of a step to express Beowulf on the dance floor ? :)As Beowulf's most famous deed involved pulling someone's arm off at the shoulder, I'm not sure this is a great plan... (Though I suspect Grendel was a very heavy follow).

Dave

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Pammy
Smoking???

How could you forget Andy!!! :really:

Of course there's smoking. Thank you Pammy for giving me a chance to remind people about it:kiss:

Of course, you don't need to know hundreds of moves to be really annoyed about venues with smoky dance floors. Smoking related diseases affect beginners just as much as experts:devil:

The only difference is that us people who've been dancing for a long time have been expected to put up with smoking for longer :sick:

The advantage we have is that we know where the alternative smoke free venues are - if you're a beginner and your venue allows smoking in the same hall as dancing please pm me and I'll tell you where else you can go :waycool:

Do not support those organisers that have no consideration for the health of their customers by allowing smoke to be present where people are dancing - what could they be thinking?

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by David Franklin
As Beowulf's most famous deed involved pulling someone's arm off at the shoulder, I'm not sure this is a great plan... (Though I suspect Grendel was a very heavy follow).

Dave


One of my best moves that is.. the Catapault Arm rip, with optional soggy end battering man spin. <g>

[David Franklin]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
One of my best moves that is.. the Catapault Arm rip, with optional soggy end battering man spin. <g>
That's all very well, but I'd be wary when the mother comes up to you and tries the old "The best place to practice lifts is in the water" routine...

Dave

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
One of my best moves that is.. the Catapault Arm rip, with optional soggy end battering man spin. <g>

Do you do these moves in the tartan dressingown? :wink:

Px

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
But I always feel really bad when ladies come up asking me to dance. I always get the feeling that it's a "sympathy dance" that they feel sorry for me. I feel quilty when I tell them that I don't want to dance and I'm just watching. As you say, I've paid my money to get in and have the lesson, I shouldn't feel compelled to dance every dance. I know I'm not going to get any more confident or a better dancer sitting on the sidelines everynight , but surely that's my perogative?

I never ask beginners to dance out of 'sympathy'. It's self-preservation. If we didn't encourage the newbies we'd have nobody to dance with in a couple of years.

And you are doing the right thing giving a reason for a 'no'. The ones I don't like are the look-you-over-and-reject type refusals. They just say no, look distainful and turn away - I'm sure you'd never do that, you sound far too polite:wink:

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Pammy
Do you do these moves in the tartan dressingown? :wink:


Not only that, I even have a copy of "The Guide" in my pocket. Should really follow it's advice more often.. especially the "DON'T PANIC" advice.

I may be a 33 year old grendel-slaying Anglo-saxon by name , but I'm a dressing-gown wearing semi evolved arthur dent shaped simian by nature :wink:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
Not only that, I even have a copy of "The Guide" in my pocket. Should really follow it's advice more often.. especially the "DON'T PANIC" advice.

I may be a 33 year old grendel-slaying Anglo-saxon by name , but I'm a dressing-gown wearing semi evolved arthur dent shaped simian by nature :wink:

Actually, the Avatar reminds me very much of Mike Patten from Faith No More; ahhhh, those were the days.

I can imagine him in the tartan dressingown, but not with the guide in his pocket ! :wink:

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I never ask beginners to dance out of 'sympathy'. It's self-preservation. If we didn't encourage the newbies we'd have nobody to dance with in a couple of years.
I find that there are several other reasons for dancing with beginners;
{in no particular order...}
- it can help improve your dancing
- you get to meet someone new
- you add to the over all welcome and friendlyness of a venue
- they don't know what to expect, so simple moves can have a "wow" factor
- you don't have to think that hard about fancy moves or hitting the breaks
- they may turn out to be good dancers, visiting
- you can experiance them improving as the weeks progress
- any "mistakes" can be brushed off with easy smiles and 'oops'
...
note that there is no "sympathy vote" in there - I dance with beginners because I want to; not out of sympathy or because if I didn't they wouldn't improve.
I also think {hope :wink:} that I'm not unique in this mentality.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Pammy
Actually, the Avatar reminds me very much of Mike Patten from Faith No More; ahhhh, those were the days.


What ? a Faith No More fan ? you r00l ;)

Only ever managed to see them once - at Glasgow barrowlands...ace!

[Bill]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
What ? a Faith No More fan ? you r00l ;)



DS.............what's an r00l ??????? :rolleyes: :D

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Bill
DS.............what's an r00l ??????? :rolleyes: :D

thats l33t sp34k that is..er...elite speak.....go to http://www.geocities.com/mnstr_2000/translate.html and J00 to0 C@N +@lk lIk3 @ H@X0r


...in fact google has the option of being h@x0r'd Sp33(h w1s3 too..... go here http://www.google.com/intl/xx-hacker/ and search as normal.....if you dont understand any of this - just carry on quietly with your life, but remember...I 0wN j00, 4lL yOur 8@5e ArE BEloNG +O U$ :D

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
thats l33t sp34k that is..er...elite speak..... It's also been described as g33k sp34k. Or geek speak to you and me :D

But obviously not in DS's case :na:

Steve

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
What ? a Faith No More fan ? you r00l ;)

Only ever managed to see them once - at Glasgow barrowlands...ace!

Oh, I've seen them live; I stood in awe, marvelling at the chisled chin of the wonderous Mr P.:drool:

"Coz you came from out of nowhere, my glance turned to a stare" indeed, indeed... reminisses...

It all went downhill when Angeldust came out though...:tears:

My mother always wondered what I saw in a band whose lead singer urinated in his shoe and tossed it into the crowd. Looking back, I can't quite see the reasoning either!!! :what:

What was your favourite song then? I think I still have a video somewhere....

[Emma]

Originally posted by TheTramp
But obviously not in DS's case :na: I was just assuming it was Smurf speak (5MUrf 5p34k ??) and letting him quietly get on with his life......:grin:

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by TheTramp
It's also been described as g33k sp34k. Or geek speak to you and me :D
Steve

Pah! as a fully paid up member of the geek community and geek activist I have to point out that so called "H@X0r's" those pre-pubescent technologically adept high school kids have nothing to do with being geeks. They might be nerds, according to the geek dictionary a geek is “A professional who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.”

Nerds just do it for fun, To geeks , it’s a way of life :wink:

S*x4geeks (http://www.sex4geeks.co.uk)

(I haven't finished the site yet!.. too many websites, not enough time!)

[Bill]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
thats l33t sp34k that is..er...elite speak.....go to http://www.geocities.com/mnstr_2000/translate.html and J00 to0 C@N +@lk lIk3 @ H@X0r


...in fact google has the option of being h@x0r'd Sp33(h w1s3 too..... go here http://www.google.com/intl/xx-hacker/ and search as normal.....if you dont understand any of this - just carry on quietly with your life, but remember...I 0wN j00, 4lL yOur 8@5e ArE BEloNG +O U$ :D


Ah.............that explains it all...........thanks very much :rolleyes: Just hope the lovely Mrs DS can apply the medication - or insert - before you go completely loopy :na:

[Aleks]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
Pah! as a fully paid up member of the geek community and geek activist I have to point out that so called "H@X0r's" those pre-pubescent technologically adept high school kids have nothing to do with being geeks. They might be nerds, according to the geek dictionary a geek is “A professional who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.”

Nerds just do it for fun, To geeks , it’s a way of life :wink:

S*x4geeks (http://www.sex4geeks.co.uk)

(I haven't finished the site yet!.. too many websites, not enough time!)

Are there no female geeks or are geeky females all homosexual?

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Aleks
are geeky females all homosexual?

Oh no.. I know many female geeks.. thing is females tend not to admit geekdom. Girl I work with here, knows her way around the ipsec protocol, can build a PC from scratch in under an hour and has no qualms about setting up a corp network, did a degree in Mathematics.. Does she call herself a geek? :confused: No..

The key lies in the description of a geek being "socially inept" .. females are born to socialise therefore ipso facto are not inept and therfore do not qualify as geeks.. QED

(a true geek is someone who uses ipso facto and QED in normal conversation ..:sorry :wink: )

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor


Enjoy this time Mr Boomer. The good news is that it gets even better, different, but definitely better:D The bad news is that you start getting fussy about the floor, music, your shoes, your clothes, the heat, the teaching, big headed Hotshots, rudeness , etc :really: [/B] [B]

[My emphasis]..if it works.

About the rudeness bit. This isn't so much about 'if' one asks, but 'how'. It should be clear by now that I am relatively virginal within the scope of Ceroc, but this eve - which was fab by the way -I noticed a few things that caused my brow to beetle. A few things is wrong, I saw 1 thing 3 times. I understand that rule 1) of Ceroc etiquette is that when asked one dances - Rule 2 being that a refusal is qualified, 'I'm tired' etc. Now this is fine and dandy, this tacit agreement allows one to ask for, and be asked for, a dance and not necessarily have to worry about any 'ulterior motive'. but the '1 thing' I saw has left me wondering if this agreement is being exploited.

On three separate occasions, by three separate men, I noticed that the method of asking was to pounce on the 1st 3 bars of the song, grab an elbow and without waiting for any 'by your leave' lead the woman to the dance-floor. This seems to me to be a bit impolite. It could have been that the people in question were acquaintances, but I saw nothing all evening to suggest that these people knew each other, and I'm a fairly perceptive lad. This is not to mention the look of polite shock on the faces of the women. I'm no shrinking violet, ot timid mouse, believe it or not, but this does seem to me to be rather...'not on'. Am I being over sensitive, or is this an accepted method of asking for a dance? If it is, I think I will stick to the tried, and becoming tested, 'may I?'

[Neil]

Originally posted by Boomer
On three separate occasions, by three separate men, I noticed that the method of asking was to pounce on the 1st 3 bars of the song, grab an elbow and without waiting for any 'by your leave' lead the woman to the dance-floor. This seems to me to be a bit impolite. I agree with you, Boomer. You see this quite a lot and IMHO it is rather rude. I think it's OK between friends, in a jokey sort of way ("I'm so desperate to dance with you I just have to grab you and pull you on to the floor") but not with someone you don't know. Ladies, what do you think? Often, the "non-verbal invitation" seems to be employed by the sort of men who do aerials etc. on crowded dance floors (i.e. tossers).

On the other hand, if a strange woman grabs me and drags me on to the dance floor I don't normally complain too much :). Go figure.

:cheers:

Neil

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Boomer
[B]On three separate occasions, by three separate men, I noticed that the method of asking was to pounce on the 1st 3 bars of the song, grab an elbow and without waiting for any 'by your leave' lead the woman to the dance-floor.
:what:
I think that they have got something wrong somewhere; Dancing is all about "leading" - which is an invitation, not a command or forced instruction. If they can't invite a lady onto the dance floor, then I doubt they can lead them arround it.

{my standard invitation is "non-verbal" - offer a hand, smile and I'm dancing with some pretty lady. However it is not "Physical" - big difference.}

[Emma]

Originally posted by Neil
the "non-verbal invitation" This happened to me the other week in Bromley..I was standing at the side in the middle of a conversation when some guy I've never seen before came up to me, pulled me onto the dancefloor, and when he got there looked at me (for the first time apparently) and said 'Oh! I thought you were someone else!'

He then proceeded to issue commands to me throughout the dance ('You're supposed to dip! Jump!') which I confess in the end I rather didn't want to obey :innocent:

[Lou]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
4lL yOur 8@5e ArE BEloNG +O U$ :D Now that's a phrase I haven't heard in a long, long time.... :grin:

Oh, and I've never forgiven Mike Patton for Mr Bungle. :mad:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
(a true geek is someone who uses ipso facto and QED in normal conversation ..:sorry :wink: )

And goes rockclimbing wearing a dressingown? :wink:

Px

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Neil
On the other hand, if a strange woman grabs me and drags me on to the dance floor I don't normally complain too much :). Go figure.

Poor Tony, the demonstrator from Uxbridge has to put up with an odd way of dancing. I used to get so stressed about asking someone good to dance that I'd fluff it up (even more than normal) and would spend most of the song saying "Sorry," "Sorry!", "Sorry again!" etc. In the end it became a bit of a game; eg. who was leading in the dance with who had less sorries to their name.

Now I don't ask him to dance, I just say "Sorry?"

Odd; well I am odd anyway!:grin:

Px

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Neil

On the other hand, if a strange woman grabs me and drags me on to the dance floor I don't normally complain too much :). Go figure.
:cheers:

Neil

And if she was a 6’ 6”, 300lb shot-putter, who answered to the name of Ludmilla? No point complaining I guess, a true exercise in futility.:nice:

Thanks chaps, its nice to know I'm not overreacting on this.:cheers:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Boomer
Thanks chaps, its nice to know I'm not overreacting on this.:cheers:

I wouldn't like to see a 400lb gorilla over-reacting!

Px

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Pammy
I wouldn't like to see a 400lb gorilla over-reacting!

Px

Especially the way this (180lb) does with ‘pen and paper’, god knows what posts I’d come-up with:what: ....”I say, was recently at a class and saw a man with black shoes and WHITE socks!! Not only that, but his belt didn’t match his shoes!! Is this on!?!?!”:grin:

Needless to say, the event that made me go ‘hooo’ and bounce a bit in my seat is the exception. Brought a friend last night, and she loved every minute of, couldn’t believe how friendly people were.
:cheers:

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Boomer
Brought a friend last night, and she loved every minute of, couldn’t believe how friendly people were.
:cheers:

Isn't it brilliant when you take your muggle friends to Ceroc and they love it. I dragged a friend to Croydon recently. Now he's taken a couple who are mutual friends along there and they love it too:D

I can't wait 'til the next time we all go skiing. We'll all be such show offs in Switzerland:waycool:

N.B. Please note this is the same Ceroc franchise as Rochester, Bromley and Maidstone which I've named as having a problem with smoking. The dance floor at Croydon doesn't have a smoke problem so I'm happy to go there and recommend it:wink:

[Boomer]

The ripple effect is a wonderous thing to watch:nice: . She's looking forward to the next class/dance and has already persuaded a couple of her friends to try it...didn't take much persuading, but I was a bit surprised that they had never heard of jive, let alone Ceroc:what:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Boomer
I say, was recently at a class and saw a man with black shoes and WHITE socks!! Not only that, but his belt didn’t match his shoes!! Is this on!?!?!”:grin:

I SAY? That's frightfully posh for someone from our neck of the woods. Before we know it you'll be saying "don't you know" as well :wink:

Oh, and Grant, how many times have I got to remind you to check your clothes are matching before going out!!!:wink:

Seriously though, I thought all women classed men who wore white socks with black shoes as being outstandingly sexy dressers???!!!?

Now who's whistling trying to look un-noticed??? :what: :tears:

Pammy wanders off behind the gorilla and hopes nobody spots her....

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Boomer
The ripple effect is a wonderous thing to watch:nice: . She's looking forward to the next class/dance and has already persuaded a couple of her friends to try it...didn't take much persuading, but I was a bit surprised that they had never heard of jive, let alone Ceroc:what:

And isn't it fantastic when your friends come along and say they think you're good even when you can only do a handful of moves:D

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
And isn't it fantastic when your friends come along and say they think you're good even when you can only do a handful of moves:D

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: How did you guess!!!:D I suppose I'm not alone 'don't you know':D

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Pammy

Seriously though, I thought all women classed men who wore white socks with black shoes as being outstandingly sexy dressers???!!!?
[/i]

:rofl: Oh no! Please, someone tell me she's jesting :rofl: :grin: :nice: :what: You are joking?

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Boomer
:rofl: Oh no! Please, someone tell me she's jesting :rofl: :grin: :nice: :what: You are joking?

Worse still is the black shoes, white socks and orange shorts look. :what: :really: :sick:

Oh and yes, golly gosh, I was jesting (of course there are some people I would let get away with it!!!:wink: )

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Boomer
Especially the way this (180lb) does with ‘pen and paper’, god knows what posts I’d come-up with:what: ....”I say, was recently at a class and saw a man with black shoes and WHITE socks!! Not only that, but his belt didn’t match his shoes!! Is this on!?!?!”:grin:

I have to plead guilty to a dress code violation. On Tuesday I went to Dorking in a bright orange hawiian shirt and my usual beige:sick: dance shoes which go with my white socks felt a bit slippery so I changed into my dance trainers which are black and red:drool: So not only did I have white socks that didn't go, the red of my shoes clashed brilliantly with my orange shirt.

Nigel relentlessly made fun of me from the stage - which is no more than I deserved. I didn't even have a comeback as he was wearing a very smart pinstripe suit with black and white shoes:waycool:

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I have to plead guilty to a dress code violation. On Tuesday I went to Dorking in a bright orange hawiian shirt and my usual beige:sick: dance shoes which go with my white socks felt a bit slippery so I changed into my dance trainers which are black and red:drool: So not only did I have white socks that didn't go, the red of my shoes clashed brilliantly with my orange shirt.

Nigel relentlessly made fun of me from the stage - which is no more than I deserved. I didn't even have a comeback as he was wearing a very smart pinstripe suit with black and white shoes:waycool:

:rofl: Ohmygod! Mr McGregor, thats'a'one'hell'of'a faux-pas...dont suppose there are any photos?:D

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Boomer
:rofl: Ohmygod! Mr McGregor, thats'a'one'hell'of'a faux-pas...dont suppose there are any photos?:D

Sorry, there weren't any photographers. But don't worry, I'm told by The Tramp that I haven't a clue about colour co-ordination so I'll be just as badly dressed whenever you spot me:tears:

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Sorry, there weren't any photographers. But don't worry, I'm told by The Tramp that I haven't a clue about colour co-ordination so I'll be just as badly dressed whenever you spot me:tears:

I shall look for the topless man in red stockings and a black what-ever-that is around your waist....(just been upstairs to check the evidence:what: ).:D

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Boomer
I shall look for the topless man in red stockings and a black what-ever-that is around your waist....(just been upstairs to check the evidence:what: ).:D

As well as the red fishnets I wore black suspenders and black 'Thunderbirds' boxers over a very scratchy glittery gold thong. The shoes are black patent leather. My handbag matched but was in the changing room:what:

This was probably the silliest cabaret I've ever done. Athough not the scariest - that was one wearing similar clothes at a gay ball in Brighton:eek: