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View Full Version : Cha-cha timing when teaching MJ-ers



robd
14th-August-2007, 11:25 PM
Moved from the WCS thread - DavidJames

I haven't been to one of Graham's WCS workshops yet (actually I was in the same room when he was doing one at Camber but being paired with Cruella proved v distracting :rolleyes: ) but have heard good things about them. I do wonder if they would sync with my WCS experience to date however because my experience of Graham's latin teaching at Southport was that it used a different timing structure to the standard (i.e it was done on the 1 not the 2) and this is confirmed by the DVD recaps of his workshops. Maybe it was a different style/standard of the dances he was teaching but a divergence from the standard could prove very distracting to a relative beginner like myself.

ducasi
15th-August-2007, 12:26 AM
I haven't been to one of Graham's WCS workshops yet ... but have heard good things about them. I do wonder if they would sync with my WCS experience to date ...
Having experienced at least 8 different WCS teachers from across the UK and the US, I can state that Graham's WCS teaching will probably blend well with your other WCS experience.

That said, I think I've been taught at least 8 different ways to do a standard whip, so there's probably some adjustment needed to do any new-to-you WCS teacher's class. ;)

Dance Demon
15th-August-2007, 01:03 AM
because my experience of Graham's latin teaching at Southport was that it used a different timing structure to the standard (i.e it was done on the 1 not the 2) and this is confirmed by the DVD recaps of his workshops. Maybe it was a different style/standard of the dances he was teaching but a divergence from the standard could prove very distracting to a relative beginner like myself.

there are different styles of Latin teaching. my ballroom teacher teaches off beat Cha cha i.e. he does a shift step on the first beat after the four count. Some people teach without the shift, which places the Cha cha cha in a different part of the music. It's the same with Rumba. FWIW, I had Graham teach Rumba at the last Red Hot & Blue, and he will be teaching it again this Friday. I was more than happy with his teaching, as were my punters.

Paul F
15th-August-2007, 10:03 AM
Some people teach without the shift, which places the Cha cha cha in a different part of the music.

:what:

If my teachers started doing that I certainly wouldnt go back :sick:

Dance Demon
15th-August-2007, 10:25 AM
:what:

If my teachers started doing that I certainly wouldnt go back :sick:

Yep!, I suppose it's a case of what you are used to. if you had always been taught without the shift, then suddenly being taught to do it would feel a bit alien...and vice versa. As far as Grahams teaching of Latin dance goes, he used to teach with Dianne Isherwood who was a very accomplished Latin American dancer in her own right, who can count the likes of Donny Burns as partners she has danced with. I don't think Graham has changed the method of teaching his Latin classes since parting with Dianne.

Lory
15th-August-2007, 10:37 AM
Yep!, I suppose it's a case of what you are used to.

Sorry John, I disagree. There's only one correct timing for Rumba and Cha cha and that's with a weight shift on 1 and a step on 2, anything else is wrong. :cool:

Although, in saying that, I can understand, when adding a little 'Cha cha flavour,' into MJ, it fits better danced on the 1 ;) but proper Cha cha is 'always'; danced on the 2! :yeah:

David Bailey
15th-August-2007, 11:01 AM
Sorry John, I disagree. There's only one correct timing for Rumba and Cha cha and that's with a weight shift on 1 and a step on 2, anything else is wrong. :cool:
Ummm.... not entirely true.

For Ballroom cha-cha, yes - it's "two-three-chachacha".

Street Latin cha-cha (outside of Cuba) is either "one-two-chachacha" or "chachacha-three-four".

Mambo is "On 2", whereas salsa is "On 1" (most commonly in the UK) or "On 2". There are vast "On X" wars between different factions in the salsa community...

In short, it's complicated :grin: - but in a social dance situation, it's a completely valid interpretation to step on 1.

But I agree that a ballroom teacher in the UK should probably teach to step on 2.

robd
15th-August-2007, 11:55 AM
My teacher teaches with the weight shift, and as far as I'm aware so does Graham.

This was not the case at Southport - there was no weight shift in either the cha or rumba DVD recaps nor in the rumba class (as I said I didn't attend the cha class so will not speculate on that). The step forward by Graham for the first basic is made on the 1 in both styles. Additionally (and this is not confirmed on the DVD as the timing is not being called out by Graham) in the rumba class Graham was counting the standard timing i.e 2, 3, 4, 1 but matching this to counts 1, 2, 3, 4 of the track being played. Now that really was confusing.


I know that the weight shift is the internationally accepted way of dancing Cha Cha and Rumba, but it doesn't stop some people from teaching without it. If you are a beginner, you wouldn't know it was wrong, you'd just accept what you were taught as being correct.

I can understand what you're saying but it's not the absence or otherwise of the weight shift that's at issue - it's the timing of the first step. You could discard the weight shift but still step on 2. Simon and Nicole taught a Cha Cha for jivers class at Chill which was on the 2 (and was achieved via a weight shift on 1) - they clearly didn't think the standard timing was beyond the dancers there so I am not sure why anyone teaching cha cha for jivers should think otherwise.

I don't doubt Graham's latin credentials which is why I was quite puzzled as to how things were done at Southport.

David Bailey
15th-August-2007, 12:30 PM
I can understand what you're saying but it's not the absence or otherwise of the weight shift that's at issue - it's the timing of the first step. You could discard the weight shift but still step on 2. Simon and Nicole taught a Cha Cha for jivers class at Chill which was on the 2 (and was achieved via a weight shift on 1) - they clearly didn't think the standard timing was beyond the dancers there so I am not sure why anyone teaching cha cha for jivers should think otherwise.
You can make a case for saying that chacha on 1 is more easy to integrate with MJ than dancing on 2, in that it's closer in timing. I've been taught a few cha-cha style moves in MJ routines before, and they've usually been on 1. And there's some precedent - some people do dance on 1.

On the other hand, I've also taught a fused MJ / cha-cha routine which was on 2, so clearly it's doable.


I don't doubt Graham's latin credentials which is why I was quite puzzled as to how things were done at Southport.
Well, he's around - Graham, any response?

drathzel
16th-August-2007, 05:03 PM
You can make a case for saying that chacha on 1 is more easy to integrate with MJ than dancing on 2, in that it's closer in timing. I've been taught a few cha-cha style moves in MJ routines before, and they've usually been on 1. And there's some precedent - some people do dance on 1.

On the other hand, I've also taught a fused MJ / cha-cha routine which was on 2, so clearly it's doable.


Well, he's around - Graham, any response?


when graham taught us a rumba class one night after wcs it was on the 2. I dance cha cha and rumba on the 2 unless i am led it on the 1 and therefore will follow. However my hearing of the cha cha cha bit in the music comes from the 1 count! confusing i know!

frodo
16th-August-2007, 09:51 PM
This was not the case at Southport - there was no weight shift in either the cha or rumba DVD recaps nor in the rumba class (as I said I didn't attend the cha class so will not speculate on that). The step forward by Graham for the first basic is made on the 1 in both styles. Additionally (and this is not confirmed on the DVD as the timing is not being called out by Graham) in the rumba class Graham was counting the standard timing i.e 2, 3, 4, 1 but matching this to counts 1, 2, 3, 4 of the track being played. Now that really was confusing.
...
I don't doubt Graham's latin credentials which is why I was quite puzzled as to how things were done at Southport.
If they're counting 2,3,4,1 I'd treat it as being taught on 2, but being counted wrong.

There does seem a bit of a pattern of otherwise quite decent latin teachers counting incorrectly at times.

David Bailey
16th-August-2007, 11:03 PM
If they're counting 2,3,4,1 I'd treat it as being taught on 2, but being counted wrong.
Not really - it doesn't matter what the count is (could be "Fred Mickey Minnie Ginger" for example), but it matters that - in standard ballroom chacha - you don't step on the first beat, or Fred as I shall now call it, but you step on the second beat, Mickey :)

I'd still like to know why it was taught like that however... :sad:

Lory
16th-August-2007, 11:39 PM
I'd still like to know why it was taught like that however... :sad:

Looks like even the experts don't know! :na:

Cha Cha Cha Timing and Break (http://www.dancesport.uk.com/tid-bits/issue110.htm)

frodo
17th-August-2007, 12:24 AM
Not really - it doesn't matter what the count is (could be "Fred Mickey Minnie Ginger" for example), but it matters that - in standard ballroom chacha - you don't step on the first beat, or Fred as I shall now call it, but you step on the second beat, Mickey :)

I'd still like to know why it was taught like that however... :sad:
:confused:

It makes a big difference to people like me who will immediately associate the steps with the counted value (step forward on 2 etc.) and then later match those numbers with the counted 2 of other musical tracks.

So to me if the teacher counts 2 for step forward it is taught on the 2, as that is what I will have learnt to do.

David Bailey
17th-August-2007, 09:47 AM
Looks like even the experts don't know!
Well, I think it's well-established that "proper" ballroom chacha has the convention of being on 2. If you learn chacha as part of ballroom, then it should be on 2.

But to me, there's no overwhelming musical case for stating that this is necessary - and other people do indeed dance it on 1. And it might be more easy to teach MJ-ers to move on 1, because that's more like the step they're used to.

Northants Girly
17th-August-2007, 09:58 AM
I did Graham's cha cha class at Southport.

The impression I had of it was that it was supposed to be a fun, introductory, beginners class with the empasis on teaching people a few cha cha moves which they could then take away and build on in whatever way they wished.

I've danced cha cha on and off for years and this issue of not being taught that cha cha should start on the 2nd beat during that lesson didn't bug me at all. Because as I've said above - it was a just fun, beginners class!

Oh yeah - and I really enjoyed it :clap:

Brian Doolan
17th-August-2007, 10:05 AM
Well, I think it's well-established that "proper" ballroom chacha has the convention of being on 2. If you learn chacha as part of ballroom, then it should be on 2.

But to me, there's no overwhelming musical case for stating that this is necessary - and other people do indeed dance it on 1. And it might be more easy to teach MJ-ers to move on 1, because that's more like the step they're used to.

Why not start on an & count - 5,6,7,8,&,1
that way the MJers are starting on count 2 but think they're starting on count 1 and the "proper" ballroom chachaers (???) know they're starting on count 2.

I couldn't be bothered to think of an alternative to *chachaers.

*Maybe another nonsensical thread can be started for alternatives.

Brian Doolan
17th-August-2007, 10:07 AM
I did Graham's cha cha class at Southport.

The impression I had of it was that it was supposed to be a fun, introductory, beginners class with the empasis on teaching people a few cha cha moves which they could then take away and build on in whatever way they wished.

I've danced cha cha on and off for years and this issue of not being taught that cha cha should start on the 2nd beat during that lesson didn't bug me at all. Because as I've said above - it was a just fun, beginners class!

Oh yeah - and I really enjoyed it :clap:

Nice one!! :yeah:

David Bailey
17th-August-2007, 10:20 AM
I did Graham's cha cha class at Southport.

The impression I had of it was that it was supposed to be a fun, introductory, beginners class with the empasis on teaching people a few cha cha moves which they could then take away and build on in whatever way they wished.
Well, when I did Anton and Erin's cha-cha class the year before, they definitely taught on 2, so nerr :na:

I'm not saying teaching on 1 is a bad idea - I'd just like to know why it was taught that way.

HelenB
17th-August-2007, 10:33 AM
This was not the case at Southport ..{snip}..in the rumba class Graham was counting the standard timing i.e 2, 3, 4, 1 but matching this to counts 1, 2, 3, 4 of the track being played. Now that really was confusing.

From watching the cha-cha class at SP, this was also the case.

Fair enough teach the cha/rumba on the 1, but to count the class on the standard timing then to change this when the music was on ... :sick:

I'm afraid I left the class as it was too frustrating :blush: (and would have whatever the dance/teacher if the way they counted the move kept changing)

Terpsichorea
17th-August-2007, 10:41 AM
For my two penn'oth, I was told by a ballroom teacher that stepping into the rock step of Cha-Cha on beat 2 is what you do when you're new to ballroom - the first side step (speaking as a lead) to the right, sets you up to go into a rock step. After you have progressed to, say Silver level (and this is what I was told) you can go straight into your rock step without bothering to step right first.

Andy McGregor
17th-August-2007, 10:51 AM
I have been talking with Nigel Anderson about this over the last few months. He tells me that, from a musician's perspective, the world of ballroom have got it wrong. The music tells you that the chachacha needs to be 3&4.

However, the convention in ballroom chachacha is that it's on 4&1. As somebody who likes to be conventional I'm wondering why anybody would teach an unconventional timing for any dance at a dance weekender - seems nuts to me :confused:

However, sometimes it fun to be a bit nuts - but couldn't you be just as much fun and get the timing right?

David Bailey
17th-August-2007, 11:02 AM
I have been talking with Nigel Anderson about this over the last few months. He tells me that, from a musician's perspective, the world of ballroom have got it wrong. The music tells you that the chachacha needs to be 3&4.
That's a bit strong - I'd say that the music allows either interpretation to be valid, as it does (for the same reasons) in salsa.

But Ballroom chacha adopts one interpretation, which is sensible - you've gotta choose one of them.

robd
17th-August-2007, 11:30 AM
I have been talking with Nigel Anderson about this over the last few months.

Andy, do you even take a sh*t without consulting with Nigel Anderson first? :devil:

robd
17th-August-2007, 11:33 AM
I have been talking with Nigel Anderson about this over the last few months. He tells me that, from a musician's perspective, the world of ballroom have got it wrong. The music tells you that the chachacha needs to be 3&4.


More (ahem) seriously, I think there's potential for a good thread on whether what is right for musicians is also automatically right for dancers - there was a thread along these lines on a WCS board that I found very interesting. Personally, I know so little about music in theoretical terms that I can't kick such a thread off but I am sure others on here could.

robd
17th-August-2007, 11:45 AM
I would say that if someone wants to teach the step forward in cha or rumba on the 1, they are welcome to do so. I would hope they would make mention to the class that it was a divergence from the standard so that those who choose to take their experience of that dance further would be aware. They should also be aware that in doing so they are likely to lose from the class people accustomed to dancing on the 2 - if it's a beginner's class they may think that's no great problem. You might say 'what does one count matter' but try starting your jive moves on the 8 (assuming you phrase your dancing) and see how odd it feels as an experienced dancer.
What was my major concern was that Graham was counting a different number to the beat of the music - i.e counting '2,3,4,1' in time with 1,2,3,4 of the music (I can only speak for the rumba class but the timing divergence is the same).
To my mind, there are two possible explanations for this
* He couldn't count the music properly - this is obviously nonsense for someone of Graham's calibre and experience
* He did so deliberately - I think this must be the case which is why it would be nice for Graham to expand on why he did so. Having said that, he has no obligation to do so just as I, and others, have no obligation to attend any future latin classes he might run at weekenders.

TheTramp
17th-August-2007, 11:51 AM
I have to admit to teaching cha-cha footwork starting on the 1st beat of the bar, rather than on the 2.

I do this, because almost all mj dancers I've seen that put some of the footwork into their dancing, do it on the 1 anyhow. Even those that have been taught it in the ballroom style, starting on the 2. It's just that most people are used to starting on the 1, so that's what they do.

Having said that, I do ask if anyone has done any Cha-Cha at ballroom first, and apologise to them, and tell them what I'm doing :D

David Bailey
17th-August-2007, 12:02 PM
Andy, do you even take a sh*t without consulting with Nigel Anderson first? :devil:
:rofl: :respect:

Andy McGregor
17th-August-2007, 12:06 PM
Andy, do you even take a sh*t without consulting with Nigel Anderson first? :devil:I always defer to people who know better than me on a subject. Nigel is a professional musician, I am not. If Nigel wanted to know something about, let's say, vaginal thrush, or analgesia or diabeties, or diverticular disease, many other diseases or even marketing, he'd ask me as I've been trained and work in these areas, and he'd probably quote what I'd said.

robd
17th-August-2007, 12:12 PM
I always defer to people who know better than me on a subject.

...yet you disagree with Franck from time to time about the teaching of dance :confused: :whistle:

Lory
17th-August-2007, 12:19 PM
Ok, having read all the above, I've come to this conclusion....

When teaching Modern Jive and simply adding a flavour of another dance, i.e. Cha cha, Tango or WCS, then its acceptable to do whatever makes the dance fit better and what's easiest for the dancers to grasp. :grin: (But like Trampy said, do NOT pretend its anything more than a flavour)

When teaching A workshop named Cha Cha, Tango or WCS, then IMO, they should be taught to the recognised standard timings.


In modern jive, no one as yet, has agreed that there's ANY particular correct way of doing anything! We can't even agree on what foot we should step back on. :wink: But, that's also the beauty of the dance, as its open to interpretation and can constantly evolve! :waycool:
We can take elements of any dance and sling a few steps in and hey presto, we've created yet another hybrid.. I can see it now.. two years down the line, we could have 'smooth west tango cha blues jive' being taught at the weekenders! :D

David Bailey
17th-August-2007, 12:56 PM
When teaching A workshop named Cha Cha, Tango or WCS, then IMO, they should be taught to the recognised standard timings.
What about if it's called (for example) "Tango for Modern Jivers"? :whistle:

I think, as Trampy has said, if you deviate from the "standard" teaching of a specific dance, you should at least tell the class that this isn't the standard and why you're deviating.

Lory
17th-August-2007, 01:05 PM
What about if it's called (for example) "Tango for Modern Jivers"? :whistle:

Thats what I said here, didn't I? :rolleyes:


When teaching Modern Jive and simply adding a flavour of another dance, i.e. Cha cha, Tango or WCS, then its acceptable to do whatever makes the dance fit better and what's easiest for the dancers to grasp. :grin: (But like Trampy said, do NOT pretend its anything more than a flavour)



:D

Jamie
17th-August-2007, 01:10 PM
Erm, is it just me who can actually hear a different cha cha beat than 1,2,3&4.. If you listen deeper, there is an extra beat which starts on 2 and finishes on 5 of the bar. I can't think of any piece right now where it's really easy to hear, but ever since I learned a bit of cha cha and was told to start on beat 2.. for ages I pondered why the hell? Then when listening to the music and getting used to counting in on 2, I heard the extra beat and now feels really unnatural to start on 1..

:confused:

HelenB
17th-August-2007, 01:13 PM
Erm, is it just me who can actually hear a different cha cha beat than 1,2,3&4.. If you listen deeper, there is an extra beat which starts on 2 and finishes on 5 of the bar. I can't think of any piece right now where it's really easy to hear, but ever since I learned a bit of cha cha and was told to start on beat 2.. for ages I pondered why the hell? Then when listening to the music and getting used to counting in on 2, I heard the extra beat and now feels really unnatural to start on 1..

:confused:

:yeah: I can hear it too (along with the voices :rolleyes: )

If I remember rightly from my ballroom days, Love Potion No. 9 has quite a strong cha cha beat in it

Lory
17th-August-2007, 01:17 PM
Erm, is it just me who can actually hear a different cha cha beat than 1,2,3&4.. If you listen deeper, there is an extra beat which starts on 2 and finishes on 5 of the bar. I can't think of any piece right now where it's really easy to hear, but ever since I learned a bit of cha cha and was told to start on beat 2.. for ages I pondered why the hell? Then when listening to the music and getting used to counting in on 2, I heard the extra beat and now feels really unnatural to start on 1..

:confused:

No, its not just you! I think thats what the people who've learnt Cha Cha and Rumba properly are saying, once you can hear it, thats it, it feels natural to dance it on the 2 and anything else just feels odd! :sick:

I don't even have to 'think' about counting anymore!:grin:

Jamie
17th-August-2007, 01:17 PM
Ok, not exactly chacha but there is a cha cha beat in "Michael Jackson - You Rock My World" listen for the dur dur dur beat and it's on 4&1.. See my point is proved! :D

ducasi
17th-August-2007, 01:30 PM
Ok, not exactly chacha but there is a cha cha beat in "Michael Jackson - You Rock My World" listen for the dur dur dur beat and it's on 4&1.. See my point is proved! :D
I used to enjoy dancing MJ to cha-cha songs, but as I listened more to the music I started hearing the cha-cha "2.. 3.. 4 & 1" sound, and it tends to put me off my dancing.

Unfortunately, cha-cha, at least as I've seen it taught and practised, is not a dance I especially want to learn.

Which is why I've been interested in finding a way of adapting my MJ to a cha-cha rhythm. Haven't found anything yet...

Lynn
17th-August-2007, 02:01 PM
No, its not just you! I think thats what the people who've learnt Cha Cha and Rumba properly are saying, once you can hear it, thats it, it feels natural to dance it on the 2 and anything else just feels odd! :yeah: (I've been told the same applies to salsa, if you know 'on 2' and the track is 'on 2' its hard to dance 'on 1'.)

I have been in a intro to cha cha class for MJers where the teacher was changing how they were counting mid class. I didn't notice as I'd never done cha cha before but my partner did ballroom cha cha. It was a respected international latin teacher and we weren't sure why they changed it, perhaps they thought it would be easier for MJers on 1?

My partner in the class wisely said in relation to putting some cha cha into MJ and me worrying about getting it 'on 2' 'dance whatever works for you'.

(I can now hear and dance 'on 2' - thanks to Mikeyr for explaining so clearly and simply. :flower: )

Terpsichorea
17th-August-2007, 02:15 PM
Ok, not exactly chacha but there is a cha cha beat in "Michael Jackson - You Rock My World" listen for the dur dur dur beat and it's on 4&1.. See my point is proved! :D

:yeah:

It's quite slow for a Cha-Cha, but would be a great tune with which to learn the footwork! I'm getting a bit confused about all this dance on 1 or 2...surely the basic step (assuming you're in a closed position etc) is rock, rock, cha cha cha, rock, rock cha cha cha

David Bailey
17th-August-2007, 02:21 PM
Thats what I said here, didn't I? :rolleyes:
Nope. :D

There's three categories (at least).

For example, in Tango, you'd have:

teaching Tango (obvious)
teaching Tango to Modern Jivers (e.g. Jango, or workshops at June '06 Southport)
Teaching "Tango-flavoured" Modern Jive (e.g. workshops at June '07 Southport, or even occasional moves in Ceroc classes)


And there's definitely a difference - for category 3, you could get away with not teaching too much technique, for example, but not for category 2.

So at a chacha class, if you're teaching category 3-level, you're perfectly entitled to ignore the on 1 / on 2 issue. If you're teaching category 2-level, you should choose one or the other, and if you choose on 1, it should be explained and justified in the class. And if you're teaching category 1-level, you should definitely teach on 2.

So, if a class is marketed as "Chacha", it should probably be on 2. If it's called "chacha for Jivers", it can be either, assuming it's explained. If it's called "Adding Chacha flavour to MJ", then it doesn't matter.

straycat
17th-August-2007, 02:21 PM
Ok, not exactly chacha but there is a cha cha beat in "Michael Jackson - You Rock My World" listen for the dur dur dur beat and it's on 4&1.. See my point is proved! :D

I think cha cha music tends to be pretty varied as far as rhythm goes... while I have no idea what the official 'definition' as as regards the music, a quick youtube sampling gives some interesting results:

One Two Three-and-Four-and-One (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dw9JmWplL68) (great version of that Summertime too - must find that)

One Two-and-Three Four-and-One (http://youtube.com/watch?v=z3sRYp9HxEk&mode=related&search=) (more 'typical' sounding chacha track)

One Two-and-Three Four-and-One (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ISmOGkAniZ4)

One Two-and-Three-and-Four-and-One (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ycrvNbct1LI&mode=related&search=) (but with loads of variations in that rhythm)

I reckon there's no cut-and-dried answer to this one.

Terpsichorea
17th-August-2007, 02:24 PM
I think cha cha music tends to be pretty varied as far as rhythm goes... while I have no idea what the official 'definition' as as regards the music, a quick youtube sampling gives some interesting results:

One Two Three-and-Four-and-One (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dw9JmWplL68) (great version of that Summertime too - must find that)

One Two-and-Three Four-and-One (http://youtube.com/watch?v=z3sRYp9HxEk&mode=related&search=) (more 'typical' sounding chacha track)

One Two-and-Three Four-and-One (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ISmOGkAniZ4)

One Two-and-Three-and-Four-and-One (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ycrvNbct1LI&mode=related&search=) (but with loads of variations in that rhythm)

I reckon there's no cut-and-dried answer to this one.

Isn't the last track on there a Rumba track rather than Cha-Cha?

Lory
17th-August-2007, 02:56 PM
So, if a class is marketed as "Chacha", it should probably be on 2. If it's called "chacha for Jivers", it can be either, assuming it's explained. If it's called "Adding Chacha flavour to MJ", then it doesn't matter.

Exactamondo! :worthy:

I have to say, I just laughed out loud when I read your summing up.. its like saying, teaching anything to 'jiver's', is like dealing with 'special needs' people! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

BTW, I learnt jive first.. I don't think its had any long term detrimental affects on my learning ability! :D

clevedonboy
17th-August-2007, 03:07 PM
I think cha cha music tends to be pretty varied as far as rhythm goes... while I have no idea what the official 'definition' as as regards the music, a quick youtube sampling gives some interesting results:

One Two Three-and-Four-and-One (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dw9JmWplL68) (great version of that Summertime too - must find that)

One Two-and-Three Four-and-One (http://youtube.com/watch?v=z3sRYp9HxEk&mode=related&search=) (more 'typical' sounding chacha track)

One Two-and-Three Four-and-One (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ISmOGkAniZ4)

One Two-and-Three-and-Four-and-One (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ycrvNbct1LI&mode=related&search=) (but with loads of variations in that rhythm)

I reckon there's no cut-and-dried answer to this one.

The first is a typical showpiece track chosen by top dancers (Chills & Fever by Tom Jones was used by Darren & Lilya) - it can be danced as a cha cha (obviously) but it's not obviously a cha cha cha

the second is 2&3 4&1 but stronger on the 4&1

My take on the third is that it's a Boogaloo

the last I'd dance as a Rhumba as was pointed out previously

I can't find any popular cha cha chas that are anything but 4&1 (sometimes a weaker 2&3 is there as well) - Smooth, Corazon Espinada, Undantag, Beat Box Cha Cha

I can understand Lory's point entirely but musically Cha Cha Cha makes sense the way that it's taught by the Latin Ballroom peeps.

graham fox
26th-August-2007, 02:43 PM
I think i should give an explanation of my teaching last southport. I appreciate good timing is essential. My theory was that to make the class easier I would start the cha cha on one even thought we all know cha cha is on two. Therfore I counted the proper timing as in 2,3,4and 1...but in affect started on the one beat. It was very deliberate as I thought it may of helped beginners get a grasp of the dance...In reflection I should of just went with the proper timing and let people ajust to it. I appreciate everyones comments and respect your views. This Southport will be taught on 2 and I will give the class as always my full dedication. I hope people who attended the class last year enjoyed all the moves, styling and technique.
:nice: I only wish the thread had been named cha cha timing rather than Graham Fox southport class. I just feel that was a little unfair, but thats life. Cant wait to southport guys..

David Bailey
26th-August-2007, 05:24 PM
I think i should give an explanation of my teaching last southport. I appreciate good timing is essential. My theory was that to make the class easier I would start the cha cha on one even thought we all know cha cha is on two. Therfore I counted the proper timing as in 2,3,4and 1...but in affect started on the one beat. It was very deliberate as I thought it may of helped beginners get a grasp of the dance...
Good for you - and thanks for responding. I assumed it was something along those lines.



:nice: I only wish the thread had been named cha cha timing rather than Graham Fox southport class...
And as if by magic... :grin: