What's a Cleaver?

[Lou]

Boring dance related thread coming up...

In the Olden Dayes of Yore, we used to dance a move called the Cleaver. It was a variation of a R-R Return, where the man would interrupt the flow of the move by placing his left hand on the lady's shoulder as she turned. They both continue to turn & end up facing the same way. There's a step to the side & a turn to finish. There's a description on Jiveoholic (http://www.jiveoholic.org.uk/default.asp) that's far better than mine. It's record 147 of 628. There's another great example at Afterfive (http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/latest/html/cleaver.html) with handy diagrams :D .

I was dancing with a Taxi at Shenley Ceroc™ last Tuesday. He happened to do that move. I was surprised, 'cos nobody ever dances it these days. So I commented to him. He replied that it wasn't a Cleaver - it was a Shoulder something or other (I forget exactly what he said... :blush: ) He then proceeded to do what he called a Cleaver - a 2 handed move that involved both dancers turning on the spot for 90 degrees to face in opposite directions - with arms going behind the head. (A bit like what we used to call a Slidebreak). I just assumed that he'd got the names of the moves muddled up & thought little of it. :flower:

However - last night at Leamington Spa, they taught his Slidebreak move - and called it a Cleaver! What's going on? Have Ceroc™ started renaming moves to confuse us? Am I going mad? Was it some strange coincidence, or is it a cunning plan to discredit independent organisations?

Can some kindly Ceroc™ teacher explain what they believe a Cleaver to be... Cheers! *

[pennyb]

Hi Lou, it was me who taught the Cleaver at Leamington Spa on Monday.

I think the move to which you are referring is probably the Shoulderpull.

The Cleaver is a double cross handed move and depending which hand is on top, can start with either a clockwise or an anti-clockwise turn for the follower.

As the follower completes their turn, the leader also makes a quarter turn in the opposite direction (so that you end up facing the same way) and taking both hands up and behind both heads and to the shoulders. Depending on which way the follower has turned, they will end up at either the right or left side of the leader.

You can then walk on the spot for a few beats before stepping away and catching either R – L or L – R.

The Cleaver is a classic move and as such should be taught on a reasonably frequent basis. The guidelines are that the second move in each routine should be a classic move.

Regarding the re-naming of moves. Yes, I think that some moves have been renamed. For example, the classic move now called the Butterfly Double Cheat, used to be called the Lady’s Butterfly. Some newly introduced moves include a step which is called the Half Mambo, but the same step is still called the Mambo in older moves.

I agree this can be confusing (for me as well as you!), although I am sure the intention is to provide consistency and not to confuse people.

I may be wrong, but I don’t think that the Cleaver is one of the moves that has been renamed?

[Lou]

Hi Lou, it was me who taught the Cleaver at Leamington Spa on Monday.
Ah! Cheers, Penny. :D Nice class - lovely venue, btw... My first time there. Happened to be working in Leamington, so thought I'd pop in. Thanks for your help here - I'm glad a teacher has confirmed what I'd found.


I think the move to which you are referring is probably the Shoulderpull.Thanks. I knew it was something to do with shoulders. :D


I may be wrong, but I don’t think that the Cleaver is one of the moves that has been renamed?
Aha... the plot thickens. I've just looked on the Cerocwiki (http://www.cerocwiki.com/index.php?title=Cleaver) and it seems our antipodean friends also dance my version of the Cleaver.

I've come across different names for moves between all the organisations before (Basics, Loopholes, Figure of 8, Push Pulls, etc.), but never one where they've used the same name as a completely different move before, and especially when it's Ceroc™ that's out on a limb. It's going to be one of those little Ceroc™ vs Modern Jive oddities. :wink: One dance, separated by a common language.... :whistle:

[robd]

You can then walk on the spot for a few beats

How do you walk on the spot Penny?

[Jamie]

How do you walk on the spot Penny?

Take either your right foot or left foot, raise it off the floor, then place the ball of your foot on the floor, followed by your heel, then transfering your weight onto that leg.

~Repeat~

:wink:

[pennyb]

Take either your right foot or left foot, raise it off the floor, then place the ball of your foot on the floor, followed by your heel, then transfering your weight onto that leg.

~Repeat~

Sounds about right. I'm sure you must do this when you are dancing Rob, although maybe you call it something else? :wink:

[robd]

Walking, for me, requires some kind of forward (or backward) motion.

I'd define 'on the spot' motion like J describes as stepping.

You could have shown me tonight at Northampton Penny but I will not be there since my ankle hurts and I am having (hopefully temporary) trouble both walking and stepping :sad:

[pennyb]

I suppose I have just got used to saying 'walk on the spot' and my class have got used to what I mean by that. i.e. moving your feet and not just wiggling your hips. Although, you could of course wiggle at that point in the cleaver too.

Will miss you tonight and very sorry I won't get the opportunity to show you the difference between walking and wiggling. Hope you are all better very soon! :)