PDA

View Full Version : Youngsters!



Jon
16th-August-2003, 10:17 AM
Leading on from the thread about good venues I was wondering what venues attract the younger generation. You know the 20 - 35 age range. My experience has been with Ceroc that people in this age range are few and far between which when you look at Salsa tends to be quite the opposite.

The only venues I know are Charlton and Welling that regularly have more than afew people within this age group but they are still well out numbered.

So my questions are:
1. What venues do you know that attract the youngsters.
2. What can Ceroc do to attract more of these people.

Dan Hudson
16th-August-2003, 11:21 AM
Jon

Ceroc Enterprises target age range is 18-25. As franchisee's we are encouraged to direct our marketting at this age range..

In reality the age range of people wanting to learn how to dance are generally a lot older.

In my experience it is also a lot about spare cash/ time. Generally the people with the spare cash to pay £6.00 to go dancing are older, I don't know why this is, maybe, no mortgage, kids grown up and moved out, paid more...????
Where as, us youngsters have mortgages, babies and probably want to spend any leisure time in the pub than dancing!!

Isn't dancing for girls??
confused: :confused:

At Charlton the average age is lower than a lot of venues you will find locally.
I think in my very limited experience, Scottish venues are generally younger, or is it the ladies just look younger??:devil:
:yum:
Franck, can you confirm...??

I wish I knew the answer to encourage young people, short of offering free beer!!! :what:

Claire
16th-August-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Jon
...........attract the younger generation. You know the 20 - 35 age range...........


~counts on fingers
I am 33 now but almost 34 which means I only have a couple of years until i am officially NOT YOUNG???

Hey thanks Jon
That makes me feel great!

(~grinning)

Chris
16th-August-2003, 01:19 PM
Well, we think we are targetting and want to target youngsters but I don't know if that's true.
:confused:
The venue I can think of that had the highest proportion of youngsters also had a policy of themed music nights, including a 70a and 80s night (v.popular with 30s+ and some youngsters) but also a 'House & Modern Music night'.
:drool:
I've brought quite a few youngsters along to Ceroc, several of whom are friends of mine, and the music has been the main reason they've given me for not returning. Most youngsters do not, in my experience, want to dance to music that their parents, or people of their parents' age, think is cool or their parents' idea of 'modern'.

Go to the places these people are socialising and mostly you will find music that is either in the current charts or one on from that - music that is either about to be in the current charts or 'mixes' of current chart hits. (This is generalising but you maybe see my point).

Double dilemma here - the main one being that the 30s+ age range want to dance to the stuff that's currently being played in Ceroc venues (the total addicts and experienced dancers will get more adventurous but not necessarily towards the above type). Secondly, with the exception of some top DJs like Lounge Lizard, most DJs are on a relatively tight budget for records, they don't get the hundreds of pounds a night that the good club DJs do.
:nice:
My personal view is that's the main factor but I would ask again if it's really the policy we care about? Personally, age is not important to me as far as dance partners go. I can think of one wonderful elderly Chinese lady who used to come to Edinburgh Ceroc (and maybe still does) who was beautifully responsive to a gently lead and would just glow! I've also danced a lot with teenagers, some of whome are very fit for the odd aerial of course!
:yum:
If Ceroc really pushed its stated policy of target age range it might well lose many of its existing customers.
:what:

Jenna
16th-August-2003, 03:24 PM
I find that most younger people just don't know about Ceroc, Ive introduced a 16 year old who thinks it's great and when she goes home (england) is going to introduce all her friends to it. The type of music didn't put her off, there is a fairly good mix of young and old music played at dundee though.

Will
16th-August-2003, 06:45 PM
From what I'm hearing, the O2 centre in London has a very low average age, but I haven't been there in ages so I can't confirm this.

Emma
16th-August-2003, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Claire
~counts on fingers
I am 33 now but almost 34 which means I only have a couple of years until I am officially NOT YOUNG???
Hey thanks Jon
That makes me feel great!
(~grinning) How do you think it makes the rest of us feel?!!

Lounge Lizard
17th-August-2003, 10:41 AM
I teach in Hastings, our youngest was 14, oldes 75 average 40

I quoted the Ceroc 20 - 35 target range on a flyer once - the regulars neary lynched me!

I have found a lot of the younger (25 and under) dancers want to dance Salsa, Hip hop or to music that is not ideal for the Ceroc/Leroc dance - I often get asked by new young dancers to play 'dance floor killers' that sound great, but empty the dance floor.

Also, they want to be dancing their own age group not their parents! Once they are good this does not matter to them, but keeping them long enough is the problem.

I think Ceroc/Leroc could, perhaps devise a new alternative format and put on an extra class night with a change in the music and moves, (that take up less space) which could cross over to the current trend for Hip Hop Salsa dancing.

The problem would be kepping us 35 plus addict's out!

Personally, if the vunue is buzzing, does age matter.

Jayne
17th-August-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Jenna
Ive introduced a 16 year old who thinks it's great and when
I thought ceroc scotland's policy was over 18s? Franck? Something to do with licensing laws....

J :confused:

Basil Brush (Forum Plant)
17th-August-2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Chris
Most youngsters do not, in my experience, want to dance to music that their parents, or people of their parents' age, think is cool or their parents' idea of 'modern'.

What about VEGAS then??? Huge student pull, all between 17-25 on average, and the music is far from modern.

Paul F
17th-August-2003, 05:31 PM
I have talked to loads of people in my own age range (im 26) and younger and the vast concensus of opinion is that for young people Ceroc etc simply do not seem appealing on two fronts:

1. Dancing with older people (not my view, just those of my peer
groups)

2. Going to the 'town hall / community centre'. People
automatically conjure images of ,well ...u know what i mean.

To most people , including me, these things are fine but to a lot of people of a youngish age this is simply not appealing.

Style of dance - not as major a factor. Yes the press/pop industry has elevated salsa to 'sexy' proportions so this will naturally be more appealing for the younger people but ceroc could move this way (but at what cost?)

Money isnt an issue. £6 is not a lot (and im at university!!!) , then again students do tend to have more money these days.

It is true a lot of people in the younger bracket dont know about ceroc but this could easily change by redirecting the advertising but as soon as people see the points mentioned above then , im sorry to say, most wont return.

ITS AN IMAGE THING!!!

Their loss

Jon
17th-August-2003, 05:44 PM
I good friend of mine whos 24 and I were talking about this after going to a venue where we both were the youngest there. We are both hooked on dancing but we think if you say I do Jive to someone they straight away think it's an old fashioned style of dance.

Plus it would be nice to dance with new young people more often. Unless someone gets hooked when they first come to Ceroc I think we loose alot of these youngsters because they want to socialise more with people their age and they just arn't there.

So if Ceroc are targeting the 18+ age range how are they doing this anyone know?

Jon
17th-August-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Paul F
Going to the 'town hall / community centre'. People
automatically conjure images of ,well ...u know what i mean.


Your probably right. And alot of venues we have to go in via the back door, dark passage way, etc. So prehaps what Ceroc needs to do is open clubs, which is what Salsa has. Even a club with 2 dance floors one for salsa and one for ceroc could attract alot of dancers.

Dance Demon
17th-August-2003, 07:04 PM
I think that there is another aspect of this subject that has maybe been overlooked. In the main, the 18 - 25 age bracket is populated by single people. They like to go out at he weekend, partly to have a drink and possibly maybe even on the pull. The club culture is strongly linked to alcohol, and probably social drugs.:what: I am not saying it is like this for every one in this age bracket, but it is for many. modern jive being a partner dance which needs a fair amount of co-ordination, does not lend itself to people who are under the influence. Most jive nights are frequented by people who drink mainly water or soft drinks. (How many venues have been closed because of poor bar takings ?) It is therefore understandable that a lot of younger people would not want to spend valuable social & drinking time in a hall or leisure centre, drinking soft drinks....you're only young once after all :wink: Re the music...I think it is unfair to generalise that people in the 18-25 bracket only like chart or club music, and it is probably the ones that would like a change from the stuff they hear day in day out on the radio and in most pubs and clubs, that are most likely to be attracted to modrn jive nights.

michael
17th-August-2003, 07:13 PM
I think Paul F has probably touched on part of the reason why we do not have really young ones at most ceroc classes. Perhaps the other is just down to a generation type gap that will allways exist in the present framework.

In any case i thought we were all young happy and content with the way things are. Do we want to have loads of 18yr olds dancing and their style of music playing all night. If you want that surely you could just go to the disco and ceroc to the boom boom of house music.

From my own limited observation the ages seem to kind of start off at around 25-30 and if they like it remain as it suits those who have become fed up with house style music and the background that goes with it or just got older (wiser really:wink: ).

There are loads of people at that age group that ceroc could easily target by sending people round selected clubs and pubs with Flyers on a regular basis.

Michael

jiveclone
18th-August-2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by michael
There are loads of people at that age group that ceroc could easily target by sending people round selected clubs and pubs with Flyers on a regular basis.

Michael

You would probably find that the managers of the clubs and pubs would chuck you out if you tried distributing flyers.

i.e. They would probably have similar policies about competing organizations distributing flyers at their venues to ceroc. However they might employ larger and more vicious bouncers than the typical ceroc franchise...

Allan.

Basil Brush (Forum Plant)
18th-August-2003, 10:32 AM
Has anyone every started Ceroc in schools/colleges/uni? I know that when I was at Uni I'd have loved it! School kids would respond very well too, especially if it they were dancing to pop music. God- they are made to do ceilidh dancing so surely anything's better than that ....

:what: :wink: :sick:

Lisa
18th-August-2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by Basil Brush
Has anyone every started Ceroc in schools/colleges/uni? I know that when I was at Uni I'd have loved it! School kids would respond very well too, especially if it they were dancing to pop music. God- they are made to do ceilidh dancing so surely anything's better than that ....

:what: :wink: :sick:

Nothing like getting them addicted at an early age! :grin:
I think Lorna has taught her pupils a fun class before.... or were we just chatting about the idea? Correct me if I'm making it up Lorna.

There's an Aberdeen busk this Sat but maybe we should do another during freshers week next month too?

Lisa x

Dreadful Scathe
18th-August-2003, 11:03 AM
seems to be getting an older crowd now, not so many young newcomers. Some of the young crowd that used to go still do....and they're not getting any younger ;)

When i started at LeRoc there were quite a few 18-25's, so dunno what happened there. Maybe they used to all go on to Salsa but now they skip out the Jive part!

Basil Brush - thought you were going to Perth? I was wanting to find out who you were :). As for me ? I'm spartacus! :)

Dance Demon
18th-August-2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
As for me ? I'm spartacus! :)

Oh no you're not....I'm Spatacus:rolleyes:

Dreadful Scathe
18th-August-2003, 11:30 AM
wahey, good old reliable DD.



(psst you spelt it wrong though ;) )

Lounge Lizard
18th-August-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Basil Brush
Has anyone every started Ceroc in schools/colleges/uni? I know that when I was at Uni I'd have loved it! School kids would respond very well too, especially if it they were dancing to pop music. God- they are made to do ceilidh dancing so surely anything's better than that ....

:what: :wink: :sick:

I tried our local school, but partner dancing with teenagers!!! - the rules bullshit and apathy I encountered was incredible.

Graham
18th-August-2003, 02:00 PM
I agree with Paul F and also with DD. Basically it's an image thing, and I think that older people being there is definitely a minus. I taxi in a student union, and we often get students looking in to see what we're up to, and occasionally you see a bit of interest, but mostly they just seem amused. I think it's important for many people in this age group to do things with their mates, so the problem is that if a little group does come along (as happens reasonably often) the chances of ALL of them liking it and wanting to keep coming are slim, so it ends up that NONE of them stay.

Personally I think it's good to have a mixture of ages, in the same way as having a mixture of music. And I think we do have a reasonable mixture at the union, except for this youngest group: I can only think of a couple of people who are (still) under 25.

Jayne
18th-August-2003, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Graham
I can only think of a couple of people who are (still) under 25.
:tears:
J :wink:

Gadget
18th-August-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Lisa
There's an Aberdeen busk this Sat but maybe we should do another during freshers week next month too?
Actually, that just reminded me - I think that Franck may be missing an ideal opportunity on the 31st: Free at the Dee.

For those outside of aberdeen, it's the largest FREE pop party in Scotland (poss the UK)...

Liberty X, David Sneddon, Darius, Abs, Lisa Scott-Lee and Billy Crawford have already confirmed they will be performing at the Northsound 1 and 2 event, which is being held on Sunday, August 31, at Aberdeen's Duthie Park.

I'll be there. Anyone else?

TheTramp
18th-August-2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
Actually, that just reminded me - I think that Franck may be missing an ideal opportunity on the 31st: Free at the Dee.

For those outside of aberdeen, it's the largest FREE pop party in Scotland (poss the UK)...


I'll be there. Anyone else?
Hadn't heard of it before. But I think that I could be persuaded to go :D

Steve

Chris
18th-August-2003, 03:10 PM
Yeah - on reflection I have to agree there's lots more to it than just playing the right music.

Gadget may have an idea - a wee busk at a pop concert, especially if a few of the 'younger' ceroccers turn up! (g,d & r)

I've often danced with ceroccers in nightclubs before the dancefloor gets going and it often results in youngsters 'having a go'. Even taught a wee class one day at a private school with a fine & fiery lady of the forum (who's pal was a teacher there) - they were pretty attentive but I know not all schools are like that.

Chalky seems to have reasonable success with younger schoolkids. And I've met two ceroccers who have brought their mums (but not the other way round):grin:

I wonder if one of the questions is the cost? Ceroc teachers don't come cheap. You can't just have a student union thing that starts off a ceroc club, as happens with salsa for instance.

Interesting thread - don't know if anything will change but it's fun to wonder. :cheers:

Paul F
18th-August-2003, 03:24 PM
Interesting idea about teaching at a University!!

I have been thinking about this lately. I know it has happened where the general public has been invited but has it ever been done purely JUST for students??

Im still at uni and will be starting my final year in September which coincides with my CTTC. Im sure university will let me use their dance studio free of charge or a minimal fee (it just stands empty in the evenings at the moment).

This would mean, apart from the music but i have sources(friends) that can help out here, that i really wouldnt have anything to lose. So.....

Do people think this would be an idea (obviously if my franchisee/Ceroc HQ agree)???

Just students! Its worth doing as a scientific experiment isnt it?

Sheepman
18th-August-2003, 03:32 PM
I believe that Roi Forbes tried teaching modern jive to primary school age children a few years ago. Maybe the pre teenage group wouldn't worry so much about image. I suppose it can't have been that successful, else we would all know about it.

There again, personally I didn't try dancing till the age of 30, as I was held back by the image of my Mum ballroom dancing. Socialising for me in the years before that was seeing bands, and pubbing.

I was thinking that if there were pop videos showing modern jive, the youngsters would be flocking in (though they would all be under 11 if they are TOTP fans!) But there again this has already happened, with Robert Austin dancing in the Elvis, and Sophie E.B. videos. (I didn't see either of these, so don't know how representative they were.)

I often hear the saying about the young target market for Ceroc, but I never see any evidence of it. (There again I suppose I'm too old to see it!) What advertising/PR do Ceroc do that is aimed at the youngsters?

Of course marketing is not just about advertising, it is about getting the product right, and I suppose some of the factors already mentioned show that it isn't right for this group. I do have the impression that the more central you go in London for Ceroc, the younger the people are, but this isn't really based on current evidence, as I no longer dance in central London.
I also heard that Mo'Jive in Bournemouth used to have entry restrictions at some venues, as they would get too many teenagers, fact or fiction?

Greg

Jon
18th-August-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Paul F
Just students! Its worth doing as a scientific experiment isnt it?

I'd say go for it, if they like it they will probably hunt out other local venues.

I personally dont think targeting teenagers i.e schools is going to help, but universities is another story. Leafleting the local universities and colleges may attract some people. Even busking near by might help.

Of course students dont have alot of money so if Ceroc don't do it already why not offer student entry for £2 or £3.

Kiwi_Tim
18th-August-2003, 06:38 PM
IMO a good time of year to grab students' attention is at the start of the academic year (sep/oct) at the clubs' open day (usually during freshers week or orientation). Most clubs have some sort of demo or a stand and take a few names.
Might be a bit hard to crash if you're commercial organisation, but the Glasgow Wednesday might have a leg up being located in the Glasgow Uni Union??

As far as hunting out a venue goes, it would seem that ceroc nights have a pretty low profile - you'd never know they were on unless you were there at the right time (I assume this is because the halls are rented so you can't go around sticking up permanent signage). I was working in the building behind the GUU and visiting the GUU for a year before noticing that there was night there (Glasgow Wednesday). But then I wasn't looking. A friend of mine was (well, not ceroc specifically), but he never found it either. I stumbled across it online. Being close to where I was, was a big plus tho. And of course am very happy now.

cheers
Tim

Gus
18th-August-2003, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Paul F
Interesting idea about teaching at a University!!

I seem to remember that, not too long ago, there used to be a Ceroc class at a London Uni .... probably about three years ago ... dont know what happened to it.

Re getting youngsters in ... well its mainly down to music and image. No offence, BUT (:wink: ) dont expect to go on a busk with people of 'normal' Ceroc age, wearing typical Ceroc gear dancing to swing/R&R music and expect to attract youngsters. We tried a more focused approach and it had a modicum of success ..... but you have to ask yourself the question WHY TRY?

I did it because I actualy like club/chart music, like the club dress style and like the more club orientated style of Modern Jive (hence the fact I teach Club Jive workshops)...... if thats not your scene then why would you focus on attracting youngsters ??

Dance Demon
18th-August-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
wahey, good old reliable DD.



(psst you spelt it wrong though ;) )

Pah!!!!!!damn typos:wink:

Emma
18th-August-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Jon
Of course students dont have alot of money so if Ceroc don't do it already why not offer student entry for £2 or £3. Ceroc Greenwich already has a student rate, Jon - and I imagine other franchises do too...

My opinion on the age thing is that I don't really understand the urge to target an age group who need coaxing in - it seems to me that if the average age of cerocers is (for instance) 30-40, then surely that is the group who should be targetted. If indeed targetting of a particular age group is necessary at all. That there are people attending who are outside the 'target age group' is just a bonus, further proof (if any were needed) that we don't all fit into neat little age-specific packages!

bigdjiver
19th-August-2003, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Emma
Ceroc Greenwich already has a student rate, Jon - and I imagine other franchises do too...

My opinion on the age thing is that I don't really understand the urge to target an age group who need coaxing in - it seems to me that if the average age of cerocers is (for instance) 30-40, then surely that is the group who should be targetted.

Ceroc Central has a student rate and other concessions.

I agree with the idea of targetting the groups that we know are attracted to the dance.

There is another problem I have found with youngsters, some of them tend to be bags of hormones, and to them the first move is a sexual assault. Others are at the other end of the sexual scale, and Ceroc is far too tame. Also, as has been pointed out, a lot of them believe "life" ends at about 30.

I have known a lot of youngsters who love the music played at Ceroc.

Looking at old swing and jive news clips, the age group of the dancers seems just a tad younger than at modern jive. The combination of MJ being less strenuous and people staying healthier longer is enough to account for the difference.

michael
19th-August-2003, 06:02 AM
Think Emma has something there. Why bother to target those who are likely not to stay??

One point though is that when i got told about it i just asked what is "CEROC" ? When someone mentions Salsa you immediately think dancing then you surmise what kind of dancing? sexy appealing yes. Same with ballroom or related types of ballroom, except that the young ones think oh god "Come Dancing" and run a mile (eh well guys anyway?)

When i first heard about Ceroc it meant nothing at all, could have been anything (hard labour in russia). i was told it was a Modern type of Jive. I had visions of teddy boy style of dancing doing flip flops or whatever. Not too appealing then until someone said it was just like Salsa only easier!!!! Now that was appealing as was the music as who the hell plays salsa at a normal kinda night?

I gather even the salsa classes in Glasgow have a shortage of men. Seems many of us prefer other things or something:confused:

:confused:

Paul F
19th-August-2003, 09:30 AM
Im going out on a limb here as I am not just going to mention age but age/sex.

It IS hard to get 'less mature' people into ceroc/MJ which I have found out but its even harder to get guys into it!

I would say that 90% of guys I asked to come along and see what it was either scoffed out loud "dancing, yeah right" or politely scoffed :rolleyes:

Although there were a few football watching, beer drinking curry fiends amongst them (sorry for the generalisation) the others were , hmm how do i put it, .......more liberal in their views and even they immediately rejected the idea. To qualify this though I must add that they rejected the idea of dance not Ceroc inparticular.

So, i guess not only does Ceroc face an uphill battle in attracting the less mature people but coupling this with an increadible task of attracting the male side of the equation, they really have their work cut out.

Paul F
19th-August-2003, 09:32 AM
......and before everyone has a go at me there is nothing wrong with watching football, drinking beer or having a curry :D

Just trying to emphasize the 'lad' element

Pammy
19th-August-2003, 11:43 AM
But Toto, you never have time, you're always dancing!

Px


Originally posted by Paul F
......and before everyone has a go at me there is nothing wrong with watching football, drinking beer or having a curry :D

Just trying to emphasize the 'lad' element

Paul F
19th-August-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Pammy
But Toto, you never have time, you're always dancing!

Px

May try and combine the three!!!

Drinking , eating and watching footie while dancing!!

Now if that isnt championship material i dont know what is :D

michael
19th-August-2003, 02:49 PM
Paul F just read your post and went into fit of laughter. I had visions of you getting a chicken leg thrown at you whilst on the dance floor and you wondering which leg to grab.

Now did someone suggest that men only have two thought paths and one of them was food. :wink:

Pammy
19th-August-2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by michael
Now did someone suggest that men only have two thought paths and one of them was food. :wink:

Please don't suggest making it "combine all four" :what:

Px

PS Swap the curry for a chinese... ... now you're talking! :nice:

bigdjiver
19th-August-2003, 05:14 PM
If we want to attract the average young male I believe we should emphasise the strength and leadership qualities - aerials, dips and drops. This should be a just a part of the Ceroc spectrum demonstrated. I would try and do promotions with large screen TV’s in places where they could be seen by youngsters.

I read on the web of a swing freestyle that was church based but inter-denominational, It held dances at various church halls in rotation. I have a desire to give youngsters an alternate meeting place to public houses, and have a dream of trying to organise Saturday night classes and dances on that basis aimed at the younger set. I think this would have to be a voluntary thing.

Chicklet
19th-August-2003, 05:32 PM
Just a quicky but on thread:eek:

Quite prepared to stand my ground in a barrage but a BIG part of the attraction of all the modern jive lessons, nights and events that I have been to over the last 9 months or so that I have been dancing has been the fact that they DON'T attract very many under 21s.

Under 21s have pubs and clubs specifically aimed at them ad infinitum, and they're welcome to them!

VIVE LA DIFFERENCE!!.

Heather
19th-August-2003, 05:41 PM
:D Well said Chicklet, Totally in agreement!!!

:hug:
Heather,
XX

Chris
19th-August-2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by michael
I gather even the salsa classes in Glasgow have a shortage of men.:confused:

On the other hand I've been to several salsa classes in Edinburgh where there is frequently a shortage of women:wink:

Jon
19th-August-2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
Under 21s have pubs and clubs specifically aimed at them ad infinitum, and they're welcome to them!

Couldn't agree more. I think from what the majority of people have been saying that attracting the 21s or under who are at uni is a challenge and these people probably are more interested in the pubs and clubs.

But what about those who have finished uni have a job and some money who would be about 25+. We don't attract alot of these people either. Maybe theyve moved up from pubs to wine bars :what:

Emma
19th-August-2003, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
Just a quicky but on thread:eek: Scary - are you quite well? :hug:


Under 21s have pubs and clubs specifically aimed at them ad infinitum, and they're welcome to them!

VIVE LA DIFFERENCE!!. Yes! I couldn't agree more. I don't see why everything should be aimed at the under 25s, they have enough (and they're under 25. B**tards :wink: )

Chicklet
19th-August-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Jon
But what about those who have finished uni have a job and some money who would be about 25+. We don't attract alot of these people either. Maybe theyve moved up from pubs to wine bars :what:

At (a well documented elsewhere LOL) 30 can I claim to be in this group?

Maybe there's a north south split on this one but my gut feel (thinking my way around the Glasgow Wednesday class and the weekend's festivities in Perth for example) is that this group is as well represented as any other.

Stretch it 25 - 40 and I think you've got ~70 % of the Glasgow class. Franck, CJ ? confirm??

And finally, when I think of the over 40s over 50s and even over 60s that I do know from the dancing - I have far more in common with them and find it far easier to chat than I would with under 21s!!!

Final finally ( that's something DS would say isn't it??) The majority of the the (yes I'm lumping them all together) over 40s that I have made pals with at dancing have the joi de vivre of 22 year olds so it really didn't matter a hoot!

Dance Demon
19th-August-2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet


Final finally ( that's something DS would say isn't it??) The majority of the the (yes I'm lumping them all together) over 40s that I have made pals with at dancing have the joi de vivre of 22 year olds so it really didn't matter a hoot!

Why Chickie.....You're too kind :wink:

Chicklet
20th-August-2003, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Dance Demon
Why Chickie.....You're too kind :wink:
Just tellin it like I see it bud !!!
and yes you'e a major feature in the gang I was thinking about!!!
:D :hug:

Dreadful Scathe
20th-August-2003, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Chicklet

Final finally ( that's something DS would say isn't it??) The majority of the the (yes I'm lumping them all together) over 40s that I have made pals with at dancing have the joi de vivre of 22 year olds so it really didn't matter a hoot!

You would never catch me saying Final fina....aah nearly got me there. As for joi de vivre - whatever it is, Im sure Bill Foremans got it in spades. (Won't mention Fran cos she IS 22! )

Part of the problem with getting younger people or even just a wider range of 'normal' people is that there is the initial hurdle of getting good enough to feel confident to dance. The social scene revolves around dance and newcomers can give up because they can't dance quickly enough and therefore don't feel they belong to this social scene (it can also be hard to make friends at dancing too as you never get around to realising you have other things in common, too busy dancing :) ). Jive and other forms of dance would become more popular if there was some other form of leverage to keep people interested. All you can eat + jive restaurants, karaoke and jive in pubs ....that sort of thing - Im being semi serious :)after all, its easier to do something and stick at it if it comes packaged with something else thats easier and more familiar. does that make sense ?

Dreadful Scathe
20th-August-2003, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Chicklet
and yes you'e a major feature in the gang I was thinking about!!!

Can i be in your gang ? :D

And can you explain how DD could be a Minor feature in any gang ? :)

Chicklet
20th-August-2003, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Can i be in your gang ? :D

And can you explain how DD could be a Minor feature in any gang ? :)

*squeals with laughter at thought of a chickie gang* it'll never happen....and with the dundy looming ever closer looks like the old paying folk to talk to me thing might have to cut back too:eek: :eek:

and as for wee Johnny, you'll be able to carry him around in the front pocket of your lederhosen soon!!

Bill
20th-August-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
You would never catch me saying Final fina....aah nearly got me there. As for joi de vivre - whatever it is, Im sure Bill Foremans got it in spades. (Won't mention Fran cos she IS 22! )




Well thanks DS :na: ......... but I'm only just over 22 :what: and I don't think I own a spade but I hope to get to Paris soon so if I find a shop selling joi de vivre I'll take some back ! and it's Frans birthday this Saturday and she is..........well won't say !!!


Agree with the comments made and I think the real joy of Ceroc up here - and no doubt down south is that we can all mix regardless of age or gender. It is nice to see some younger dancers coming through but it seems to be the older dancers who stick around longer.

Most of the folk in Aberdeen I'd say are certainly from mid 30's - 50 with a number of 20 year olds but I can imagine when a younger person turns up they may initially feel that it's a venue for pensioners :sick:

But for those in their teens and early 20's - as others have said there are so many other distractions and I would suggext that the only reason most young men go to niteclubs/discos is simply to drink and get off with a woman - and of course in these days of equality many oyung women are on the lookout for a young man.

Unfortunately, I didn't start dancing till after I was 40 so I feel 'cheated' as I've always liked bopping about and if ceroc had been around when I was 20 I might have come along but most of my friends were into drinking, playing football and other 'manly' pursuits.

Short of doing what a few have suggetsed and open a venue in a Uni for students only I can't see how Ceroc can attract a number of younger people and compete with all the other interests available to them.

But finally (:rolleyes: ) ...... as with any venture it seems that Ceroc are trying to keep a turnover of members so they don't really want us all to stay too long but keep people coming long enough to learn and then keep replacing them. The fact that so many of us do stay indicates how much we have - or possibly how sad our lives are if we don't do anything else :eek: :wink:

Pammy
20th-August-2003, 11:16 AM
Hmmm, well my outlook on the whole age thing is this...

It's not how old you are, but how old you feel. :grin:

As far as attracting "young" people goes, when I look back to when I was about 18, I can remember thinking that someone who was 25 was "old", because you compare everything to yourself.

Now, at 28, I don't consider myself to be old, but would imagine that someone in their late teens would, whereas someone over 60 would think I was a spring chicken. In short, it's a tough one!

Px :cheers:

Paul F
20th-August-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Pammy

Now, at 28, I don't consider myself to be old.... In short, it's a tough one!

Px :cheers:


You dont look a day over 21 Pammy :)

Pammy
20th-August-2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Paul F
You dont look a day over 21 Pammy :)

Ahhhh, I always liked you my dear :grin:

I'll slip you the fiver when I see you next week! :wink:

Px

Paul F
20th-August-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Pammy
Ahhhh, I always liked you my dear :grin:

I'll slip you the fiver when I see you next week! :wink:

Px

FIVER! :what: I thought we had settled on £20!

(or was that for the "you dont look a day over 18" line?)

:wink:

Pammy
20th-August-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Paul F
FIVER! :what: I thought we had settled on £20!

(or was that for the "you dont look a day over 18" line?)

:wink:

Nah, that was 16 for 20, but hey, you've got to keep it believeable for the other forum users!!

Despite the poor lighting, the fact we're all dead tired by the end of the night and the thick make-up I plaster on (well, maybe not the last) I think 21 was pushing it, let alone any younger :wink: :wink: :wink:

or should that be :tears: :tears: :tears:

Px

Emma
20th-August-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Bill
Agree with the comments made and I think the real joy of Ceroc up here - and no doubt down south is that we can all mix regardless of age or gender. This reminded me of something I noticed when I started Ceroc...age or gender..or race. My impression of the Ceroc crowd in the venues that I dance at is that it is predominantly white - certainly the racial mix doesn't seem to me to be equivalent to that of the area in which I live. Now why is that?

Dance Demon
20th-August-2003, 05:38 PM
maybe something to do with the music Emma. most jive venues don't tend to play a lot of House, soul ,Funk ,Reggae or Ska.
A couple of guys I know were looking for a venue recently to start up a black music club, incorporating all of the above plus Roots RnB and doo-wop stuff, but it never happened unfortunately:tears:

Emma
20th-August-2003, 06:08 PM
Do you think musical tastes are really that racially divided? Surely not....doesn't that imply that the chart music which Ceroc DJs play is listened to by a predominantly white audience? I'm not convinced. Though maybe the people who listen to the charts are in the 18-25 age group (see how I neatly come back on topic!), and older people are listening to music divided on racial lines...I can't believe that that's true. Apart from anything it means I have to lose half my CD collection! Yikes!

Gus
20th-August-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Emma
Do you think musical tastes are really that racially divided?
When it comes to dance ... probably. I've known very few black dancers ... and neraly all the black dancers I know are instructors (H, Viktor, Obi, Trish, Des etc.). In all the years teaching I've only had two male dancers who were black ..... that I remember ... the thing is after a while of dancing I must admit that I tend to forget what colour people are ..... I think thats a good thing....

It could be that a lot of the black guys I've met are pretty good dancers already ... so there would be a limited allure for them to do Jive .... the ones I know that did do dancing did Salsa ... more sexy and more challenging ?(ODA :wink: )

bigdjiver
20th-August-2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Emma
This reminded me of something I noticed when I started Ceroc...age or gender..or race. My impression of the Ceroc crowd in the venues that I dance at is that it is predominantly white - certainly the racial mix doesn't seem to me to be equivalent to that of the area in which I live. Now why is that?

One factor is that most people come to Ceroc by introduction, and social integration is not that advanced.

Another factor is that people naturally link to the familiar. I have several times been into an all coloured church, as genuine and welcoming a crowd as you could find, but still felt like an intruder. Nothing whatever to do with the congregation.

stewart38
22nd-August-2003, 12:34 PM
Interesting when Ceroc went to Slough for a few months it was still largely (99%) white for reasons mentioned above