WCS: What is "good enough"?

[Gadget]

In the "WCS Hotshots?" thread there is a lot of talk about "not being good enough" to dance with someone who they perceive as better than they are - What exactly does this mean? What do you need to do to be classed as "good enough"? Know a number of patterns? Lead/follow them well? ...?

[Nessiemonster]

Have confidence in yourself that you can give something to the dance?? :wink:

[Little Monkey]

Have confidence in yourself that you can give something to the dance?? :wink:

Yup, spot on. I think it's all to do with confidence!

It's very scary to ask some of the more experienced dancers (and the superstars like Jordan - but it paid off! :D ) for a dance, after watching them do their thang on the floor.....

Like Caro said in the other thread, the more you learn, the more you realise there's still to learn, and the more you want to improve. You keep working to reach one goal, and when you get there, you put the bar even higher, and push yourself even more. Even the best dancer constantly work to improve their dancing. If they didn't, they wouldn't be the best, would they?

If I compare myself to wcs dancers in Dundee, I'd say I'm definitely among the best. If I compare myself to all the wcs dancers in Scotland, I'd place myself as a pretty ok dancer. Then if I compare myself with some of the wcs dancers from London/Englandshire, I am definitely just a novice, somewhere far down on the wcs 'ladder'. Anc compared to the superstars, I've hardly even started to crawl, while they are flying....

Some experienced dancers are very good at making you feel at ease, as they will adapt their lead to suit your following abilities. Others are not so good, and will throw complex patterns at you, until you feel totally useless and out of your depth. After reading Paul Warden's post on the other thread, I am now definitely going to ask him for a dance next time I see him. Been too intimidated before, but that definitely gave me the courage I need to ask him!

Be afraid, Paul, be very afraid..... :devil:

[Caro]

IMO, there's no such thing about being good enough or not to dance with anybody. What really matters, is that you are willing to try and improve.

Last year at the sea sun and swing in France I had had about 5 WCS classes when I asked Jordan for a dance. I had made asking him THE goal (call it a banana ;) ) of the week-end. The first night, I chickened out, and asked Parker instead (not that he is a lesser dancer obviously, but I had seen less of him on youtube :blush: ). The second night, I thought, right, I'm not going to miss this opportunity, so kicked myself in the arse and asked him. While I danced with him, I was utterly terrified. Would I do it again ? heck yes. Expose yourself to the better dancers, and learn from them, is the best you can do for your dancing.
So if you're passionate about wcs but are not confident with your dancing, you HAVE to get over it, at least for that split second when you decide to go and ask for a dance.

Those who don't unfortunately have no idea what it feels like to then dance with them once, mess up horribly and feel rubbish, dance with them twice, not mess up so much, dance with them a third time, not mess up at all, dance with them a fourth time, add your own stuff within their basics without affecting the connection. It's GREAT. I still remain to experience dance with them a fifth time, extend a pattern, a 6th time, extend many patterns, the 7th time, go totally wild. :D (may be :innocent:). But I can't wait.
It goes for the pros, and it also goes the same way for the better leads in the UK. (just took the extreme example on purpose here to make the point).

As for the other way around... now that I am a little experienced, I am really keen on new people asking me to dance. If they are complete beginners, I will no nothing but follow and encourage them if they mess up. A bit more experienced, I'll try and play within their basics a couple of times. And then I'll extend a pattern. And then I'll extend many and (try and) phrase. And I'll try stuff I haven't done before too. Or stuff I need to practice. They'll mess up, I'll mess up, we'll say sorry and have a laugh.
I just love dancing. :flower:

At the end of the day I think it's fairly easy to judge how scared somebody is to dance with you, and most people respond to that very well (in my experience with the better leads, both from the UK scene and the US pros), in a way that makes you feel ok even if you were too terrified to have a great dance. :hug:

[MartinHarper]

Looking at Modern Jive dancers who are taking up West Coast, I think the minimum necessary requirements are an awareness of the slot, a knowledge of the footwork (particularly forward-on-one and anchor steps), and an understanding that it's not Modern Jive. Leaders would also need to have learnt at least one WCS move. That's enough to be able to dance West Coast rather than ending up doing some weird hybrid thing. Normally takes a couple of lessons.

[Lory]

For me at the moment....

'Good enough' would mean, I'd be able to 'add' something extra to the dance, to try to interpret all the stuff in the music that I hear but not interfere with the timing that the lead intended. (that also doesn't look completely naff)! I feel I fall way short of the expectations I place on myself at the moment. :(

but I reckon there have been another couple of stages of 'good enough' that i've already been through.…(and come out the other side of :clap: )

the first... being able to simple follow all the basic patterns, feeling confident that I know where I should end up :na:

the second, being able to follow, even when the lead adds some complicated syncopation's, that fall outside of the 'standard learnt' patterns :waycool:


But the problem i'm having at the moment, is having the guts to try stuff out (my own flourishes) that have the potential to go wrong. :sick:

I know Tatiana, Cat, Paul AND Lee have all told me to just to go for it and if I mess up, so what??:rolleyes:

But I pride myself on being a good follow and find it hard to do anything outsie the box, that runs the risk of take extra time...:blush:

The reason is...I know there are leads out there, who have told me they can't stand follows who take liberties and ruin 'their' flow! And other's, simply can't cope if you make them wait a couple of extra beats!

But its a catch 22, if you don't take the risks, you never improve!:tears:

Its very unlike jive, there i've got the confidence to do what I like, when I like, knowing full well I've got the ability to pull the lead back on track as well, if necessary too.

Lastly....

Just to give some confidence to the novice leads out there... I was chatting to a couple of other follows at the weekend and we're all agree'd, we're enjoying the guys who're at the 'solid basics-no frills' stage, as they just do familiar moves, we get a chance to try out 'our' stuff! :clap:

Don't get me wrong, its great when the lead's doing all sorts of wonderful suprise moves and syncopations, it's entertaining and keeps us on our toes :worthy: but personally I don't feel ready to contribute anything yet, other than to follow well!:o

[Caro]

The reason is...I know there are leads out there, who have told me they can't stand follows who take liberties and ruin 'their' flow! And other's, simply can't cope if you make them wait a couple of extra beats!


I would strongly suggest those leads are not really made for wcs... :whistle: :devil:

[Lory]

Some experienced dancers are very good at making you feel at ease, as they will adapt their lead to suit your following abilities.
Don't ya just luv 'em :worthy: :cheers: :yeah: :respect:


Others are not so good, and will throw complex patterns at you, until you feel totally useless and out of your depth.
Yeah, and then there's 'those' ones :rolleyes: :sad: :(

[Lory]

I would strongly suggest those leads are not really made for wcs... :whistle: :devil:

Yes but YOU try telling them that? :sick: :rofl:

[Lee Bartholomew]

Dancing with a lady last night who kept appologising saying "what do I do there?" my reply was "what ever you want, It's your dance as well".

She was a little shocked by this, a man giving a woman power in a 'man lead' dance. from the moment I said that, she got in to it and started playing.

This was done in a modern Jive class where we are told its a man lead dance every beginners class, but is it? Is this the same with WCS? should it be a 'male lead' dance or just a 'male suggested' dance?

[Caro]

Yes but YOU try telling them that? :sick: :rofl:

what, you think I'm scared ? Na. Impossible n'est pas Francais.
Go on, give me names. :devil:

[Nessiemonster]

It's very scary to ask some of the more experienced dancers (and the superstars like Jordan - but it paid off! :D )

Ah, but you see, I think therein lies the problem. If we see them as superstars they're intimidating. If we see them as people who are simply good at their job then where's the problem asking their advice or asking for a dance? We do it to all sorts of other people in other professions without any problem at all. :flower: