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Chicklet
7th-August-2003, 08:17 AM
OK here's a debate point - ref the intermediate assessment

Is the ability to do a double spin necessary to be an "advanced" dancer? - discuss.......

Gary
7th-August-2003, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by Chicklet
OK here's a debate point - ref the intermediate assessment

Is the ability to do a double spin necessary to be an "advanced" dancer? - discuss.......

It depends on how you define "advanced dancer". If we define "advanced dancer" as "able to cope with NZ advanced class" (which presumably has a lot of double spins), then the question is easy.

There are certainly much better definitions of "advanced dancer", but I think all the NZ folks are trying to do is make sure their advanced class flows smoothly.

On the other hand, my fuzzy idea of advanced dancers includes being very balanced and stable in spins, in which case doing doubles probably isn't much of an issue for them.

spindr
7th-August-2003, 01:03 PM
Hmmm, do you mean a double-time spin, i.e. two revolutions in the space of one modern jive count (2 musical beats) -- rather than two consecutive single spins in the space of two modern jive counts (4 musical beats).

If you mean a double-time spin, nice to be able to do / lead / follow -- but not a necessity. [BTW: I really to do like these]

Consecutive single spins -- then, yes I think you should be able to lead/follow those.

However, what I think you should be able to do at some point after beginner classes, is to be able to to a single turn / spin in one modern jive count (2 musical beats) on the spot *and only then* step back, when led to do so. [I was amazed recently when chatting to one of the local teachers that she didn't actually know how to spin on the spot -- and had to keep "falling back" to finish the spin off and recover her balance]

It's quite hard as a leader to lead a turn on the spot, e.g. with Rr hands -- and then lead a Rr comb *on the next beat* without the follower stepping back, or trying to do another turn.

A lot of the single count turn moves seem to have lost their popularity (or have been slowed down) c.f. butterfly, corkscrew, swizzlestick, spring-lock. So I guess people aren't quite so used to leading / following them.

Neil.

P.S. Anyone know a good chiropractor in Hampshire/Berkshire :(

Chicklet
7th-August-2003, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by spindr
Hmmm, do you mean a double-time spin, i.e. two revolutions in the space of one modern jive count (2 musical beats) -- rather than two consecutive single spins in the space of two modern jive counts (4 musical beats).


Was "quoting" from the NZ assessment requirements and assuming they meant a double time spin - and I completely agree - I love to see them!!

Reason I picked this one for further discussion is that, as far as I can tell, part of the reason for having certain things assessed is because other moves designated as "advanced" will be more difficult versions of moves ie with bells and whistles and particular footwork etc and it kinda makes sense that it's good for the teacher to know that the class can do the simpler move before trying learn to embellish it....don't flame me and say it's up to the individual, you'll see what I mean....but you can't - or can you?? - build on a spin in the same way - it's kinda stand alone isn't it?
Is there anything "advanced" that one wouldn't be able to do because they couldn't do a double spin??

That said, I do like Gary (??)s comment about double spins not being a problem for advanced dancers, which suggests that by the time they can do all the other stuff they can probably do this.

Which is probably true but I do sooo feel for the poor person who just can't get it and really really wants to be advanced.....guess it reminds me too much of the trauma I had at 8 years old to get my BAGA badge 1 when I was a complete star on the floor (yeah right) could do everything but the lengthways vault...ramble ramble...

C:D

Gadget
7th-August-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by spindr
It's quite hard as a leader to lead a turn on the spot, e.g. with Rr hands -- and then lead a Rr comb *on the next beat* without the follower stepping back, or trying to do another turn.
Franck has also said that he finds the comb one of the more difficult moves to lead a beginner through properly; I'm beginning to think I must be doing somthing wrong :what:
I think you need to get the off-hand hip-block right for it to go smoothly.

Originally posted by Chicklet
Is the ability to do a double spin necessary to be an "advanced" dancer?
"Spin" as in - no contact with the man during the turn? I don't think that double spins would be a requirement. But the ability to spin to match the music I would say is: It's one of my pet dislikes when I spin a lady to a slower song and she catches on the half-beat - I have to insert an aquard one and a half beat move {or preperation} to get back with the flow.

PeterL
7th-August-2003, 01:39 PM
are we talking followers here, or should a lead also be able to do a double spin before they can class themselves as advanced?

:confused:

Chicklet
7th-August-2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by PeterL
are we talking followers here, or should a lead also be able to do a double spin before they can class themselves as advanced?

:confused:

think the NZ assessment thingy was talking about both!

spindr
7th-August-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
Was "quoting" from the NZ assessment requirements and assuming they meant a double time spin - and I completely agree - I love to see them!!


But how often do you see guys dance them in freestyle :)?



Reason I picked this one for further discussion is that, as far as I can tell,
... a spin ... - it's kinda stand alone isn't it?
Is there anything "advanced" that one wouldn't be able to do because they couldn't do a double spin??


You're absolutely right with a "freespin" you're going to be completely disconnected and won't actually affect your partner as such -- of course you get the same effect by releasing hands and just doing a whole number revolutions less (or even just standing still).

I guess that the closest thing I can suggest are things like overturned free-spins (with taking hold part-way through the spin), e.g. spin 360 degrees catch Rl hands and spin a further 180 degrees to end up wrapped into the hands and backing your partner -- of course you could have simply done a 180 degree rotation (with hold). Same effect with a man-spin turning 360 + 180, or just turning 180?
I know which looks more interesting.

I suppose the intent is that being able to do a double spin means that your single spins and turns should be really snappy. Hence, lasso moves should be smooth, etc., etc.

Neil.

P.S. now I think about it there is a move that's often much easier to do after a double spin -- called the pick yourself up off of the floor :) I believe it's common to many dance styles.

PeterL
7th-August-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
think the NZ assessment thingy was talking about both!


well that settles it then.

I will always be a begginer

:tears: :tears:

DavidB
7th-August-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by spindr
But how often do you see guys dance them in freestyleWith one or two exceptions, I rarely lead double time spins. I will lead free spins (ie not holding onto the lady's hand) and give her the option. And I am more likely to lead double spins to slower music. The exceptions are two ladies I know who love spinning, and asked me to lead more spins.

I have seen one lady who seems to enjoy spinning as fast as she can at every opportunity. The problem is that she can't do it without travelling. It is good practice dancing with her, as you are constantly thinking of ways of stopping her spinning so she doesn't keep bouncing into people.

Continuous single time spins I do lead, and virtually every lady can follow, including most beginners. So I have a feeling the NZ assessment means double time spins.


Originally posted by PeterL
or should a lead also be able to do a double spin before they can class themselves as advanced? Looks like I'm joining Steve as a beginner!

David

Chicklet
7th-August-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by spindr
But how often do you see guys dance them in freestyle :)? Every time Brady takes the floor!!!!! - Don't think he always stops at two these days though, flash bugger!!Very impressive to see!


I suppose the intent is that being able to do a double spin means that your single spins and turns should be really snappy. Hence, lasso moves should be smooth, etc., etc.

yup , know what you mean, a well executed lasso "spin" much nicer to see than my kind of sloppy one!


P.S. now I think about it there is a move that's often much easier to do after a double spin -- called the pick yourself up off of the floor :) I believe it's common to many dance styles. [/QUOTE] :D

been close but never quite had to remember this move yet!!!


Further adventures in spinning - was watching some Salsa dancers on Saturday night where the girl was "spinning" while the guy held her hand above her head and led her in the spin incredibly fast and for 5 or 6 revolutions on the spot. She also did the really groovy headback thing to make a different shape...racking my brain from Blackpool and Hammersmith but can't picture it....do we bring this "spin" (that obviously requires fantastic frame) into modern jive ever??

Should we???


C
:D

Grant
7th-August-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet

[the girl was "spinning" while the guy held her hand above her head and led her in the spin incredibly fast and for 5 or 6 revolutions on the spot. She also did the really groovy headback thing ....do we bring this "spin" (that obviously requires fantastic frame) into modern jive ever??

she did look absolutely fantastic, although i thought it was ballroom style latin american rather than salsa
as to whether you should bring this into modern jive...
wouldn't you if you could? :waycool:

Grant

Chicklet
7th-August-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Grant
she did look absolutely fantastic, although i thought it was ballroom style latin american rather than salsa
as to whether you should bring this into modern jive...
wouldn't you if you could? :waycool:

Grant

could well have been ballroom latin Grant, very polished whatever it was eh?

and would I do it given half a chance and a smidgen of ability - absolutely!!!:D :D

Gadget
7th-August-2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
With one or two exceptions, I rarely lead double time spins.
How on earth do you lead a double time spin? Shove the lady faster and hope she gets it? But for those that do double/tripple... spins, how do you lead them into a single spin? bearly lead them and hope they get it?
Personally, I leave it up to the lady; if they find enough momentum in my lead, then they can go for it.
As long as I'm not standing for the next ten beats tapping my toe, waiting for them to finish.

Looks like I'm joining Steve as a beginner!
Does it count if you get dizzy and almost fall over after you do one?

Aleks
7th-August-2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
Does it count if you get dizzy and almost fall over after you do one?

Have you ever tried "spotting"?

Gadget
7th-August-2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Aleks
Have you ever tried "spotting"?
With years of a miss-spent youth head-banging and moshing, you would think that a little 'head whip' would be no problem. But alas...

Aleks
7th-August-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
With years of a miss-spent youth head-banging and moshing, you would think that a little 'head whip' would be no problem. But alas...

I did moshing tooo.....

Some of that "eye contact" people get when they dance with me is a reference point for my spins..........but not always:wink:

DavidB
7th-August-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
How on earth do you lead a double time spin? Shove the lady faster and hope she gets it? But for those that do double/tripple... spins, how do you lead them into a single spin? barely lead them and hope they get it?
I don't know if we are talking about the same thing. This is the definition I use now:
- a spin is when the lady spins on one foot
- a freespin is when she spins on one foot, without holding the mans hand.
- a turn is when she takes several small steps to get round.

(I know other people call a turn when you hold the hand, and a spin when you don't. So there can be some confusion.)

The lead I use for a multiple spin is quite subtle. I try not to 'crank' the lady round - I try to keep my wrist still and draw a small circle with my fingers. (With some ladies I can just use a flat hand - as long as I keep it above their head they keep spinning. But this does not work for everyone, and even when it works it doesn't always result in spins. All I'm doing is holding her hand - it is up to the lady whether or not she spins.)

To lead a double time spin, I would use a bit more energy in the prep, and start the first spin a bit quicker. I'm trying to accelerate through the process of starting her spin. If I feel that the lady has started turning quickly enough, I would continue into the next spin. Otherwise I'd just leave it as a single spin. It is important to control the exit to a double time spin - the lady has a lot more momentum, so you need to provide a good support in case she needs it.

To lead a double time freespin is far harder. All you can do is give the extra energy in the prep, and leave it up to her. I do not try to push her round harder or quicker - all I'd do is push her over. If I see her do multiple spins, I'll probably give her more chance later in the dance, and lead more spinning variations as well.

And to make sure you get a single freespin, you do as you suggest - give her very little energy in the prep. You can also slow down the actual 'push' into the spin, and be very proactive in catching her hand (ie catch her shoulder, and slide down to her hand.)


As long as I'm not standing for the next ten beats tapping my toe, waiting for them to finish. Ah - you get this as well. I've tried combing my hair, checking my watch, asking someone else to dance, etc. I once saw someone pull a book out of their pocket and start reading.


Does it count if you get dizzy and almost fall over after you do one? No - if you stay upright it makes you an expert.


Originally posted by Aleks
Have you ever tried "spotting"?You mean picking a spot on the floor to hit?

David

TheTramp
7th-August-2003, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
With one or two exceptions, I rarely lead double time spins. So. I'm just one of the lucky ones then, eh David!! :cheers:

Steve

bigdjiver
7th-August-2003, 06:05 PM
My first reaction to the double-spin test was that I am no good at those, don't do them, then I realised that I do, but only when carrying partner. Advanced beginner?

My reference to "projectile" moves was considering, amongst others, the pulling the girl through your legs. My partner once persuaded me to do this in front of a crowd of nervous beginners because she wanted to see their faces. Someone did a Columbian in front of me at just the wrong moment, and we had a near miss.

For the person that asked, the Columbian is a sort of travelling version of the first move, where you trip over the left foot and right foot alternately.

LilyB
7th-August-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Chicklet
OK here's a debate point - ref the intermediate assessment

Is the ability to do a double spin necessary to be an "advanced" dancer? - discuss.......

If the answer to that is "Yes", then I will have to rate myself a beginner! :tears: Well, at least up until Blackpool this year when my then partner kinda forced me to learn to do doubles - he's heavily into spinning (I should have known - he's from NZ!:sick: ) Hence I can now spin about as well as the average woman. I refer of course to free-spins. I can go on forever if the spins are assisted/guided by my partner but I think that isn't what the NZ assessment is referring to :sad: .

My view therefore (for obviously selfish reasons :wink: ), is that the ability to do a double spin is not necessary in order to be classed an "Advanced" dancer. Just purely my own personal opinion of course. Far be it for me to tell the Ceroc authorities in NZ that they are wrong ..........

LilyB

DavidB
7th-August-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
So. I'm just one of the lucky ones then, eh David!! Yes - you and Gus

Chris
7th-August-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by spindr
[B]Hmmm, do you mean a double-time spin, i.e. two revolutions in the space of one modern jive count (2 musical beats)

There's a move I do sometimes called a double assisted spin drop: the ladies seem to love it but I try to check that she's keen before trying it and also that she can spin quite well unassisted otherwise it doesn't really work. (She may be an advanced dancer and much more advanced than me, but she needs to know how to spin.)

It involves a specific hand hold - from a cup or ordinary grip, moving so that my hand has the middle two fingers stiff and pointing downward (other fingers and thumb pulled back out of the way). The lady's hand revolves around it without holding on, as if around a spindle. Her elbow is raised, making a sort of unicorn shape (otherwise it results in 'stirring'). I make sure her weight's on her left foot after first move opened out position, with plenty of space for her to turn, and draw two very rapid haloes above her head. The haloes and the spinning need to be quite precise. After a double assisted spin in one beat, I block right shoulder to right shoulder to take the lady into a seducer type drop. With one or two ladies that know the move and we've done it often, we sometimes do the double spin and drop in a single beat. For it to be comfortable and effortless, it needs an accurate 'frame', the right degree of tension, so there's good communication through the whole body just using the tiniest of movement.

(For safety sake, if you want to try it, I'd suggest practicing off the dance floor, get comfortable with the spin and block first, then add the drop)

Gadget
7th-August-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
I don't know if we are talking about the same thing. This is the definition I use now:
- a spin is when the lady spins on one foot
- a freespin is when she spins on one foot, without holding the mans hand.
- a turn is when she takes several small steps to get round.
Ah: I was referring to a spin as where you propell the lady: a free-spin in your vocabulary.
I can lead multiple 'spins' without too much difficulty, and multiple turns, but it's the multiple freespins...
I think that a lot has to do with your standard 'hold': I tend to just use my first two fingers in most leads, reverting to the whole hand for 'ballroom' grips or mit's. I think that in leading a lady into spins I drop to just the index finger and let the lady's use that to rotate around.

Paul F
5th-September-2003, 04:21 PM
On the point of spinning , take a look at cerocaustralias website - the 'shop'

http://www.cerocaustralia.com.au/shop.asp

and click on the 'snippet' from the Advanced Moves and Dips 1 video.

I have never ever seen a lady spin as smoothly or as professionally as the girl who is on that video clip. She must do 4 or 5 spins and is able to control it with such ease. She even rotates to be on the right side of the guy
:what: :really:

It really is something to see but it may take a while to download if you havn't got 512 broadband +

Jon
5th-September-2003, 07:08 PM
We had a couple of Australian ladies at Chalton last week and both were very good at spining, doubles and triples. Think they must teach spinning over there more than here. What do the UK ladies do better than the Ausies then? Or prehaps we shouldn't go there :blush:

Chris
5th-September-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Jon
We had a couple of Australian ladies at Chalton last week and both were very good at spining, doubles and triples. Think they must teach spinning over there more than here. What do the UK ladies do better than the Ausies then? Or prehaps we shouldn't go there :blush:

I would imagine Oz is the same as NZ - spinning is part of the warm-up routine before every class. (Ozzie dancers on the forum confirm this?) Warm ups and spinning in time to music (ie step, prepare, spin! step, prepare, spin!) - single spins before beginners classes, doubles before intermediate classes; can't remember if there's triples before advanced classes but with that sort of regular night I reckon even I would get better at spinning. I've also wondered if it doesn't maybe helps people keep time who otherwise 'can't hear the beat'.

Over here, after watching the NZ (g,d & r) champs video I think I'd have to contest that British ladies have more musical interpretation, as is often said. But what I think they do better is add a lot more personality and much less reliance on a host of very specific leads. Whilst I agree with Gus that it's all too easy to emphasis the differences and that it's part of a single dance 'family', there are also enough differences to make it interesting! :)

But as Jon said, perhaps we shouldn't go there (but there again, I can be obtusely slow at taking well-meaning hints :wink: :blush: )

Chris
'solve et coagula':blush:

Gus
6th-September-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Jon
What do the UK ladies do better than the Ausies then? Or prehaps we shouldn't go there :blush:

Maybe its too easy to generalise but having seen the Auusies, Kiwis and Btits I would have to say that the best of all can look equally good but in different ways .... and the rest look just as good also ..... though I have to say that, personally, I seem to feel there is a stronger choreographed element to our Southern friends dancing style.

Paul F
8th-September-2003, 09:44 AM
I think im probably a one off for this but I have to say that , IMHO, a lady spinning is the most gracious and spectacular part of any routine.

I watched another cabaret from Nicky Haslem in Greenwich last night. Nicky's and Roberts first cabaret consisted of , largely, intermediate moves (however you want to classify them) with extra turns/spins etc.

This makes it sound 'normal'. Obviously it wasnt. The flawless spinning and floorcraft shown by both nicky and roberts made it a joy to watch. :drool:

Aerials, deep dips and drops are nice but an advanced spinning technique, for me is the single most prominent part of a dance.

(sorry if this has been said elsewhere :sorry )

Dreadful Scathe
8th-September-2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Paul F


(sorry if this has been said elsewhere :sorry )

Don't apologise for making a good point, repeated or not :) I agree with you, spinning looks great when done right and at the right time. One of the best spinners ive ever seen was a Ceroc girl i saw dancing with Obi in Edinburgh a few years ago ... a 5 ft bubbly blonde (best description i can think of :) ) who would spin ten times in 5 seconds in perfect time..oooh. No idea who she was.

Gary
9th-September-2003, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by Paul F

I have never ever seen a lady spin as smoothly or as professionally as the girl who is on that video clip.

Shauna Dark. She rocks.


Originally posted by Chris

I would imagine Oz is the same as NZ - spinning is part of the warm-up routine before every class. (Ozzie dancers on the forum confirm this?)


Nope. We often do a "step footwork" warmup before intermediate class, but no spinning drills.


Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe

One of the best spinners ive ever seen was a Ceroc girl i saw dancing with Obi in Edinburgh a few years ago ... a 5 ft bubbly blonde (best description i can think of) who would spin ten times in 5 seconds in perfect time..oooh. No idea who she was.


It wasn't Karen Forster was it? I believe she and her partner spent some time in the UK. I just saw her again at some champs in Brisbane. She came second in DWAS with Hamish Johnstone, who's 6'4" -- it was very cute watching them dance with the height difference. I think of her as the funky pixie :)

Chris
10th-September-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
One of the best spinners ive ever seen was a Ceroc girl i saw dancing with Obi in Edinburgh a few years ago ... a 5 ft bubbly blonde (best description i can think of :) ) who would spin ten times in 5 seconds in perfect time..oooh. No idea who she was.

Well I guess you know the other bubbly blonde resident (who teaches) so it wouldn't be her? Though I don't know about ten times in five seconds (can only think or Londoners and foreigners off hand who can do that). She's a fab spinner - but really revels in challenge - got her up for a Blues dance at Cambers and amazed me pleasantly with her improvisation and interpretation!

Amir
2nd-October-2003, 03:40 PM
From memory (having taught ceroc in nz, but this was over two year back) I would expect double spins to be done in one count. I seem to recall that the expectation in advanced classes was for triples though. You were meant to do a double in intermeddiate.

To do a double turn in two counts means you are turning very slowely, which if you are on one foot takes way more control and balance. I saw Viktor do 9 on one foot a while back, probably in the space of about two counts. Probably impossible if attempted one per count. I saw Baryshnikov do 11 and you had to count as fast as you could to keep up. (this was on a vido 'white nights'. ) He slowed down towards the end, staying perfectly on balance, which was more impressive than the ammount.

There were plenty of dancers in teh advanced classes in NZ that couldn'd do triples, however. I'm told its different now, but a lot of that assesment stuff was to set up certain expectations: It was still up to the individual, but as a teacher I could do an advanced class and say something like, 'first move with a double assisted spin exit in one count' and expect everyone to know it, and quickly teach a variation etc.

Ofcourse, there were always those that still couldn't do it, but the responsability was theirs, not the teachers. Unfortunetly the absence of standards here means that we teachers often have to cater to the lowest common denominator when teaching drops and spins etc to maintain safety.

I'm posting my opinion on the differences between nz and here on the 'lets talk about dancing' bit.

Daphne
9th-October-2003, 09:20 PM
Unfortunetly the absence of standards here means that we teachers often have to cater to the lowest common denominator when teaching drops and spins etc to maintain safety.

- that'll be me then :tears: :tears: :tears:

michael
10th-October-2003, 10:17 PM
Mmmmmm....... was dancing with a female last night at Marcos and she was spinning wonderfully. What a buzz it gave me i have never felt that before........she spun round four times on one occassion in balance and with great style i thought........cant say i noticed whether she was wearing a thong or not...... I bow down to greater wisdom but will let you know when i come accross the thong spin:)

Strange how people react to spinning when it is discussed. Some hate it, others put up with it, whilst a percentage love it.

Even stranger is the reaction they have themselves when they spin. The dizziness can be a complete nightmare to some and the cures like "spotting" seems to work for some but not for others.

As a guy just learning i feel i should be able to spin reasonable in the future though not as well as a female. Trouble is i dont see a future if i am going to get dizzy? and trying to spot makes me even worse. Throw me up in the air toss me side to side and no effect, but go on a waltzer oh boy feel awful.....:sick:
I rarely watch dancers so will finally be able to sit and watch at Musselburgh. I cant say i have noticed guys spinning as in "wow that was a nice double spin" in any of the classes in Glasgow or Edinburgh!! I think the Taxi chap Brian (Edinburgh) done a few and it looked great but that is all.

Just wondered if practice cures the dizziness???? as presently i have this mindset that suggests otherwise?? Should we just leave that to the ladies or what......Any comments

Sorry but one last curious thing....... do guys get dizzy much easier than females:confused:

michael
10th-October-2003, 10:32 PM
Ah just goes to show what others are missing. I looked back to other threads and noticed DS had an attachment explaining why we get dizzy when we spin. See the Forum DOES have its uses:D

Lene
8th-July-2004, 12:57 PM
How on earth do you lead a double time spin? Shove the lady faster and hope she gets it? But for those that do double/tripple... spins, how do you lead them into a single spin? bearly lead them and hope they get it?
Personally, I leave it up to the lady; if they find enough momentum in my lead, then they can go for it.
As long as I'm not standing for the next ten beats tapping my toe, waiting for them to finish.

Does it count if you get dizzy and almost fall over after you do one?
Most ladies like spinning, because it looks good and is fun. When you dance with an advance dancer, you can easy lead 2-3 spins in one go as long at you give them speed and hold a good leading position. Which mean your hand you are spinning with should be in level with your forehead.


Free spinning is a different matters, again it depends how much strength you put in your lead for making a lady spin. If you give little strength she will spin once. More strength you can expect 2-3 spins. Some ladies travel a bit when they do free spins, you just have to follow them, so they don’t bounce into some one.
Have fun spinning the ladies….

Gadget
8th-July-2004, 01:21 PM
Most ladies like spinning, because it looks good and is fun. When you dance with an advance dancer, you can easy lead 2-3 spins in one go as long at you give them speed and hold a good leading position. Which mean your hand you are spinning with should be in level with your forehead.
I can (now) lead double/tripple/... turns and even to some degree dictate the speed. I have found that this is more to do with the lead into the turn rather than the turn it's self.


Free spinning is a different matters, again it depends how much strength you put in your lead for making a lady spin.
Nope. Have to dissagree: The lead should only really be indicative of a spin, and perhaps the timeing of it if it's a slow spin. "Strength" of lead should never come into it.
Sure, if a lady braces against a barrier in preperation for a spin, I will equal the preasure to give her a grounding - but she pushes off and turns however many (many, many,..) times she thinks fit to. Some ladies only need the indication and away they go.
If you use 'strength' in the lead for a spin, you are more likley to throw the lady off-ballance, or if she's good enough to maintain ballance, she will travel.

{That post was made a while ago, and I think that the question was more to point out that you can't/shouldn't "throw" a lady into a spin.
PS: Welcome to the Forum :D :waycool:}

Rachel
8th-July-2004, 01:39 PM
Most ladies like spinning, because it looks good and is fun. When you dance with an advance dancer, you can easy lead 2-3 spins in one go as long at you give them speed and hold a good leading position. Which mean your hand you are spinning with should be in level with your forehead.


Free spinning is a different matters, again it depends how much strength you put in your lead for making a lady spin. If you give little strength she will spin once. More strength you can expect 2-3 spins. Some ladies travel a bit when they do free spins, you just have to follow them, so they don’t bounce into some one.
Have fun spinning the ladies…. Hi Lene - enjoyed your post, and agree that spinning (or trying to) is great fun. There are a couple of things points where I'd differ from your post though -

1. For a guy turning a lady (or giving an assisted spin) - the height of their hand should be relevant to the lady, surely, not to their own forehead. Esp. if there's a big height difference?

Marc always suggests a guy's hand should be a few inches higher than the lady's head, but more in line with her nose, not over the centre of her head.

2. Strangely, while a steady lead is invaluable for free spins, the strength of a guy's push leading a lady into a spin has absolutely no relevance to how many spins I do. In fact, if a guy pushes harder, I'm more likely to just manage one spin before I fall off balance. And a light push can sometimes lead to 3 or 4 spins.

I'm more likely to try multiple spins if it 'feels right' according to the phrasing or emphasis of the music. Regardless of the lead. Or perhaps if a guy is dancing too fast I'll spin twice to take up more time so that I can catch on the following beat.

And of course, some floors are just so slippery and made for spinning that you can't resist the temptation to 'go for it' - just for the fun of it and to see if you can.
Rachel

Rachel
8th-July-2004, 01:40 PM
Nope. Have to dissagree: The lead should only really be indicative of a spin, and perhaps the timeing of it if it's a slow spin. "Strength" of lead should never come into it.
Sure, if a lady braces against a barrier in preperation for a spin, I will equal the preasure to give her a grounding - but she pushes off and turns however many (many, many,..) times she thinks fit to. Some ladies only need the indication and away they go.
If you use 'strength' in the lead for a spin, you are more likley to throw the lady off-ballance, or if she's good enough to maintain ballance, she will travel.

{That post was made a while ago, and I think that the question was more to point out that you can't/shouldn't "throw" a lady into a spin.
PS: Welcome to the Forum :D :waycool:} Sorry Gadget - didn't notice you'd already posted this - needless to say, I absolutely agree!!
R x

TheTramp
8th-July-2004, 01:41 PM
I agree with Lene.

But what do I know, compared to Gadget! :D

Trampy

Gadget
8th-July-2004, 02:04 PM
Well Rachel agrees with me, so :na: :na:

Rachel
8th-July-2004, 02:08 PM
I do! Tramp, I'm surprised - are you actually saying that the harder you push, the more spins a girl will do??
R x

TheTramp
8th-July-2004, 02:48 PM
The more momentum you give her, yes. Although, that momentum has to be in the right plane, and done in the right way....

And if you don't believe me. Then next time we meet, I'll demonstrate :D

Trampy

Rachel
8th-July-2004, 02:53 PM
The more momentum you give her, yes. Although, that momentum has to be in the right plane, and done in the right way....

And if you don't believe me. Then next time we meet, I'll demonstrate :D

Trampy Hm, not convinced. I think a girl can provide more than enough momentum by herself. A guy shovng her twice as hard will normally destory so much of the control and balance she needs for the spins. I'd much rather my lead 'suggests' a spin, and lets me go for it myself.

All the same - I'll very much look forward to the meet and the demo!
R.

Rachel
8th-July-2004, 02:55 PM
... Although, that momentum has to be in the right plane, and done in the right way.... Sorry, not reading things through carefully enough - yes, I guess it all comes down to the above. I do agree with that. But I still stand by my argument...

Sheepman
9th-July-2004, 02:33 PM
it depends how much strength you put in your lead for making a lady spin. If you give little strength she will spin once. More strength you can expect 2-3 spins.
Nope. Have to dissagree: The lead should only really be indicative of a spin, and perhaps the timeing of it if it's a slow spin. "Strength" of lead should never come into it.
I was trying to help out some friends the other day who were having trouble with this (that's about the only time I try to analyse what I do.) I think this isn't entirely black and white. It depends what you mean by "little strength". If I'm leading a single spin with an experienced dancer, I would try to use the merest touch, before dropping my hold, to indicate the direction of the lead - no more than just absorbing the momentum from her current direction of travel, and letting her realise she is going to spin back in the other direction. (This is about the only time I might get close to emulating David B :tears: ) Very few partners will then go off on multiple spins as they are having to do all the work themselves. IMO it can lead to a slow graceful spin, rather than a rushed one (after all 2 beats to get around should be plenty of time.)
My "regular" lead for a spin is more likely to include a steady compression that gives the lady something more to push off against - she can then do the multiple spins if she wants.
If I am intending that she should do multiple spins, then the strength may be very slightly increased, but what I think is much more important is that your preparation is bigger, & you follow through the lead further, which gives her more time to build up the spin. Because this follow through MUST go with the rotation of the spin, I tend to find it is easier when lead from moves where I'm holding her wrist or elbow, rather than pushing against a fist.

I think I could do with some followers feedback on this . . .


. . . you can't/shouldn't "throw" a lady into a spin.
Absolutely!

Greg