Southport workshops

[Red Lory]

Which workshops did anyone enjoy the most?

[Dizzy]

Line Dancing definitely :clap: :clap: It was fun and energetic. The most fun I have had in ages.

I also did the WCS workshops and the Cha Cha workshop which I enjoyed also.

I hope you enjoyed the workshops, Red Lory

[David Bailey]

Well, err, I only did one ( :blush: ) - that was the Tango Jive thing run by David and Marie-Claire. It was excellent. I wanted to do their Smooth Jive workshop, but I misread "14:30" as "4:30", duh...

Anyway, I notice that David is lurking on here - I'd very much like to hear his thoughts on his workshop(s)? :D

[Spiky Steve]

The Hustle with Joseph and Sadie was fantastic fun.

[Hotfeet]

Which workshops did I enjoy, what a fantastic question.

Line dancing has to come in a number 1, how much fun, laughter and mental exhaustion can you fit into 1 hour? Closely followed by CJ's musicality workshop which I found invaluable.

HF:rofl:

[Lazy Dave]

Well, err, I only did one ( :blush: ) - that was the Tango Jive thing run by David and Marie-Claire. It was excellent. I wanted to do their Smooth Jive workshop, but I misread "14:30" as "4:30", duh...

Anyway, I notice that David is lurking on here - I'd very much like to hear his thoughts on his workshop(s)? :D


Thank you David....
Teaching workshops at weekenders is a buzz when it goes well and I think it's fair to say that many teachers do put in a lot of time preparing their classes and researching their audience. You generally only ever read reviews about classes from the 'stars' (Jordan and Tat), a particularly good workshop you may have attended or, more often than not, when someone drops a really big clanger! And on the whole that clanger will be when someone unfamiliar to MJ comes to teach a class and they haven't researched their audience.
For example, teaching Tango 'style' moves/technique is a minefield. Finding the balance to suit a Modern Jive audience is hard and until you've learnt some tango you never truly understand this.

Content
You have an hour's class to teach a flavour of tango... where do you start? I could talk for 2 hours about approaching your partner and striking a frame, another 2 hours on what we're doing with the frame once it's there... etc etc. Those of you who have learnt A. Tango will understand.

Entertain
This is a fine line. If you want to be taken seriously, it seems you should be serious on stage, talk quite quietly, like yoda and people strain their ears for every morsel of wisdom... on the other hand try too hard to entertain and people think you're a wally...
I believe this balance is important as a Modern Jive audience is generally a sociable audience and want a lighter class - especially at weekenders - That said they still want the content!

Structure
Tango classes are usually taught in a circle with couples circulating the room (or salon) in an anti-clockwise direction. So this all has to be thought through too as an MJ audience is used to 3-4 moves taught in the time honoured "move, count through & to music x3 or 4... then link it up into a routine.
So once you've got your head around all this and tried so hard to please the audience and give them a flavour of this beautiful dance, you'll then get a tango purist come along and say, "well of course that wasn't tango"! :D
My aim is to introduce people to tango who wouldn't normally try it. If they get a taste for it after my class and that inspires them to search out a local club when they get home, my job is done!

I think it's fair to say that when the balance of any of the above is wrong you start to see the floor emptying. Thankfully, we didn't experience this at Southport. I was so pleased with the turn out at every class. There was just one thing I wasn't used to - 16 extra men in our UK Smoooth classes! That doesn't normally happen at weekenders, but it's a great sign of intent from the men that they want to learn the techniques to lead a lady well on the floor!

Finally, I'd like to thank everyone who did attend our classes - including Stuart who I got up on stage on Sunday morning to demo for me - a star is born!

Finally, finally... I think the balance of teachers at Southport was spot on. You had the stars there - Jordan & Tat, Paul Warden, Simon Selmon, Joseph & Sadie etc... and they were supported by some of this country's best independant teachers - not necessarily big names but big hearts!
Well done John & Wes!

[robd]

I really enjoyed Paul Warden's line dance on Saturday even though I was pretty hopeless at it. Didn't make the Sunday one but heard unanimously good reviews of it.

Jordan and Tatiana's classes were all entertaining and not pitched at too high a level for me to appreciate though the rooms were uncomfortably crowded on the Sunday which meant I just observed the final one in the Den and didn't participate.

The Rhumba class was disappointing to me for a few reasons. Others seemed to enjoy it so maybe it justified the approach taken.

And that was as many workshops as I managed.

Did Simon B teach the Tornado, does anyone know?

[tsh]

Did Simon B teach the Tornado, does anyone know?

Yes, he did, and I dropped out of the rotation at that point so I could stick with a partner who seemed under control.

[Rhythm King]

I did all the WCS classes and the Saturday Line Dancing, which was a blast - especially when it speeded up! I only missed the Sunday Line Dancing because of another engagement, but it looked a lot harder.

[Red Lory]

The Hustle with Joseph and Sadie was fantastic fun.

I did that one as well and it was great!

[Red Lory]

Which workshops did I enjoy, what a fantastic question.

Line dancing has to come in a number 1, how much fun, laughter and mental exhaustion can you fit into 1 hour? Closely followed by CJ's musicality workshop which I found invaluable.

HF:rofl:

I didn't do line dancing, but I did the musicality workshop as well. It was certainly original and different from the usual classes.

[ducasi]

I did (along with FH) the last three of J&T's WCS classes (well, I watched the last one as there wasn't enough room to actually do it, and I got to rest my feet!), which I thought were excellent.

Shame I missed a few other ones I wanted to go to, but typically they were on at times which I couldn't make.

Over-all though I was disappointed with the line-up of workshops – very similar content to last year's, I thought...

[Twirlie Bird]

Yes, he did, and I dropped out of the rotation at that point so I could stick with a partner who seemed under control.

Even more reason to buy the DVD. :clap: :clap:

[jive_me]

I had difficulty finding any workshops that I really wanted to do this time round. But I guess that's a matter of personal preference really. And a couple I missed due to oversleeping.

I did the first three of Jordan and Tatiana's classes. Thought they were great teachers and I understood what was going on. I've been struggling with my wcs recently so it was nice to refresh some things in my head. Although I'm not sure some leads properly understood connection??? Well, I enjoyed their teaching non-the-less

xXx:flower:

[Tiger Pants]

Over-all though I was disappointed with the line-up of workshops – very similar content to last year's, I thought...

I am sorry Ducasi but I have read similar things to this posted by you previously and I just don't get it.:confused:

I remember last year you had something very similar to say about the 'content' of some of the workshops at the Dance Fever weekend and again I was confused!!

As an example I would say that I did the Double Troble workshop on Sunday. This was IMHO an excellent workshop taught by one of my favouite DT lead, Bill Foreman. The class was structured in such a way that people, including myself, with little or no experience in DT could learn the basics, then moved on to a sequence of three intermediate moves a total I think of six moves (Sunday evening seven o'clock not the best time to take everything in if like me you'd not been back to your chalet before 6 each of the previous two mornings).
Bill's class was very much based on lead and follow and I personally have taken a huge amount away from it and now know that DT is something I would like to learn more.

Compare this to last years workshop of the same name and you would find a huge difference. The class last year ( I am sorry....don't remember exactly who taught.....think it was Lee) was very entertaining, a great deal of fun in fact but was more of a coreographed routine to get a feel for DT.
I got an enormous amount of pleasure from that too but wouldn't say that I was capable of doing it again with anyone other than people who attended the workshop.

The Cha Cha Cha and Rhumba workshops similarliy were I think geared more towards MJ'ers wanting to incorpoate these into their style of dancing. This was something mentioned a few times throughout the classes by Graham and Melanie. Last year the class by Anton and Erin was more focused towards ballroom and learning the DANCE rather than the idea of developing style in your MJ.

I don't think you can judge the content of a workshop until you have actually done it and personally I like to read the description of each workshop but I do not have an opinion on its content until I get to the end of it.

I have now done workshops two years running at SP which have been described in a similar way but have in fact been quite different in content. I have gained something new each time........my style is developing and I continue to work on it.

If, however, you did actually attend these similarily described workshops then please accept my humblest apologies X

[David Bailey]

Last year the class by Anton and Erin was more focused towards ballroom and learning the DANCE rather than the idea of developing style in your MJ.
I did Anton and Erin's chacha last year - they're a great couple, but the routine taught was nothing special, certainly there was little or no technique taught.

[Gus]

Hey ... but here's a thought ... how about more workshops for MJers :rolleyes: I KNOW ther is this trend towards MJers trying to learn other dnaces ... but wouldn't it be a great idea for Mjers trying to learn how to MJ first? I'm not sure if its really the attraction of Southport, but if it wasn't for the WCS I don't think I would have done any workshops at all. I would have liked to do Nelson's class and the SMooth Jive but the Den was useless ... too packed :(

I'm ready ot be told I'm n the m,inority about what I want, but tbhought it might be wortyhwhile to register a point of view.

Oh ... the standard of the WCS teacheing was AWESOME. I agree with something posted elsewhere, that there should be clearer guidance as to level of experitise before doing a workshop. For the first WCS workshop, not having tension was maybe permissable. For the second maybe not. for the third level they just should have been booted out.

Maybe it should also be made clear that it isn't just a 1,2,3,4 of workshops. I done a few of Chris's lesson so I was ok with the first and could cope with the second ... but I knew I would struggle with the third. However, I wanted to push myself so I went in with a fixed partner on the basis that if I couldn't cope I could just drop out and wouldn'truin it for someone else .... seems like a lot of the fixed couples were there with the same logic. Seems to work. :nice: NO way was I even going to bother trying the intermediate class.

[David Bailey]

Hey ... but here's a thought ... how about more workshops for MJers :rolleyes:
In a word - Glamour.

Other dances are seen are sexier than MJ (incorrectly in my view), thus it's good marketing to advertise other dance forms.

Having said that, there were quite a few MJ classes - musicality, style tips, fast & furious, smooth jive, etc, etc. In fact, I think the majority of classes were MJ-ish. But they don't seem to be talked about as much as the non-MJ ones.

[ducasi]

I am sorry Ducasi but I have read similar things to this posted by you previously and I just don't get it.:confused: I'm sure, as you say, that the actual content changes as the teachers change, but having done a couple of Cha Cha workshops and deciding that I don't want to learn it, yet another Cha Cha workshop is yet another ChaCha workshop – no matter who teaches it, or what its content.

(Respect to Graham Fox – I'm sure his Cha Cha class was excellent – and I know how good Bill's Double Trouble classes are from firsthand experience.)


I don't think you can judge the content of a workshop until you have actually done it and personally I like to read the description of each workshop but I do not have an opinion on its content until I get to the end of it.
Time at a weekender is precious, with workshops, dancing, socialising, eating and sleeping all to fit in. I also have limited brain, and limited energy, so I can only manage 2 or 3 workshops in a day. Therefore I have to be picky, and pre-judge the content beforehand based on the terse description given in the brochure to decide how I'm best going to spend my day.

Maybe if the description for Graham Fox's class said "How to incorporate Cha Cha into your MJ" I'd have made time and gone to it, as that is something I'd like to do.

Not only was I disappointed by the line-up of classes, I was even more disappointed by the lack of useful descriptions for the classes.

As Gus has just said, how about some more MJ classes – and with descriptions a little bit more revealing than "Advanced Modern Jive"?

[Sheepman]

I think the majority of classes were MJ-ish. Only a majority in the "first past the post" system. After a quick flick through the programme, I reckon there were 20 lessons for MJ, 23 for other dance styles, and 1 non dance lesson.

Greg

[David Bailey]

Only a majority in the "first past the post" system. After a quick flick through the programme, I reckon there were 20 lessons for MJ, 23 for other dance styles, and 1 non dance lesson.
Yeah, well-counted.

Hmmm, maybe Gus has a point... :eek:

[Tiger Pants]

but having done a couple of Cha Cha workshops and deciding that I don't want to learn it, yet another Cha Cha workshop is yet another ChaCha workshop – no matter who teaches it, or what its content.

Maybe if the description for Graham Fox's class said "How to incorporate Cha Cha into your MJ" I'd have made time and gone to it, as that is something I'd like to do.



Do you see why a simple Tiger Pants gets confused ?????

I simple thought that comments about a disappointing line-up of workshops was inappropriate if you didn't know the content. Anyway I actually agree that maybe a fuller description of the content of each workshop may be useful in the decision making process. I am simply glad that the workshops I did were in no way disappointing.

[David Bailey]

Do you see why a simple Tiger Pants gets confused ?????
There definitely should be an infractable offence for multiple punctuation marks. I'm amazed there isn't one actually.


IAnyway I actually agree that maybe a fuller description of the content of each workshop may be useful in the decision making process.
I agree. I'd prefer more class information, and less "Bio" information.

Also, it'd be nice if the programme were on the website, even if only as a PDF or something.

[Gus]

Also, it'd be nice if the programme were on the website, even if only as a PDF or something.Hey ... at least you get a fair idea who is teaching and DJing ... not like Ceroc! :angry: :angry: I'm get a little hacked off with the Escape Websites just having some 'illustrative' timetable up in advance. Is it that hard to do??


ohhhhhhhhhhh ... that was my 4000th post ..... how depressingly appropriate that I was whinging about something rather than being positive.. :( :(

[ducasi]

Hey ... at least you get a fair idea who is teaching and DJing ... not like Ceroc! :angry: :angry: I'm get a little hacked off with the Escape Websites just having some 'illustrative' timetable up in advance. Is it that hard to do??
Ceroc (in the form of Ceroc Scotland) had a full timetable up for Blaze a week in advance – didn't you see the links?

They also had very good descriptions in their event booklet too. And lots of useful MJ workshops.

[Gus]

Ceroc (in the form of Ceroc Scotland) had a full timetable up for Blaze a week in advance – didn't you see the links?

They also had very good descriptions in their event booklet too. And lots of useful MJ workshops. I KNEW that was going to happen ....:rolleyes:

I should have said with the exception of Blaze.

AND as I said before ... I felt the choice of workshops at Blaze was far better suited for intermediate and 'advanced' MJers than Southport (IMHO). Having said that .. the classes at Blaze would not have worked with an audience of 300+ like there was at Southport .....

[Tiger Pants]

There definitely should be an infractable offence for multiple punctuation marks. I'm amazed there isn't one actually.




Simply a question mark for each line in my brow when reading the post.

[David Bailey]

Simply a question mark for each line in my brow when reading the post.
I'm rewriting the rules right now... :whistle:

[Tiger Pants]

I'm rewriting the rules right now... :whistle:

Oh no, first possible infraction now a rule change no wonder I don't post often......now I know how Franck feels with that WCS forum.......shall I go back to being a reader..........DON'T THINK SO !! AND AND ANOTHER !!! OPPS AND ANOTHER !!!!:eek:

[robd]

Maybe if the description for Graham Fox's class said "How to incorporate Cha Cha into your MJ" I'd have made time and gone to it, as that is something I'd like to do.


Can you incorporate cha cha into MJ? Aren't the timings different?

[Spiky Steve]

Can you incorporate cha cha into MJ? Aren't the timings different?

I only know a few moves of cha cha cha so get bored quickly. A good follow will swap seemlessly as I hash it all together cha cha and back to MJ obviously to a cha cha track. Aren't followers amazing !!!! :respect:

[David Bailey]

Can you incorporate cha cha into MJ? Aren't the timings different?
Yes, the rhythm is clave-based, like salsa, r(h)umba, etc.

Although the chacha tempo is closer to MJ tempo than salsa or rumba.

But yes - chopping and changing between triple-step and non-triple-step is a bit of a challenge. It's doable, but I'm not sure it's very pretty.

[ducasi]

Can you incorporate cha cha into MJ? Aren't the timings different?
Ceroc already teach a few classic cha-cha moves (at least I've been taught them in a normal Ceroc class), so it must be possible...

I guess if you can get your feet in the right place at the right time it wouldn't be difficult to move from a mambo step into a proper cha-cha step. (And guess what – Mambo timing is also different to MJ timing!)

Things like basket walks, again, it must be possible to do in a more cha-cha style...

There's loads of songs which we enjoy dancing our MJ to which are really cha-cha songs underneath. I'd like to find a way to dance better to these songs.

[David Bailey]

Ceroc already teach a few classic cha-cha moves (at least I've been taught them in a normal Ceroc class), so it must be possible...
There's an "open out" thing which Ceroc taught / teaches, but that's not the same style (I believe) as a chacha open-out, which is more like a Cucaracha move I think. Although I could be completely confused with Chacha and Rumba of course :)


I guess if you can get your feet in the right place at the right time it wouldn't be difficult to move from a mambo step into a proper cha-cha step.
Except that a chacha forward-and-back step (like Rumba and Salsa) involves a weight change - leaders go forward on left, back together, then change weight and back on right, for example. Whereas a the "mambo move" (Manhattan) taught by Ceroc is forward on left, back on left.

As always, teaching weight changes - and leading them - to MJ-ers is a bit of a challenge.


There's loads of songs which we enjoy dancing our MJ to which are really cha-cha songs underneath. I'd like to find a way to dance better to these songs.
I'm not sure that chacha will actually directly help MJ dancing - in fact, I think it's more difficult to mix-and-match chacha / MJ than AT / MJ, simply because the rhythm is different.

So it's probably better to just dance either chacha or MJ to a given track, I'd suggest.

[robd]

By timing issues, I refer more to the fact that cha cha should start on the 2 and MJ moves tend to start on the 1 or 3. I would talk about upbeats and downbeats but I don't understand them myself.

Having said that, Simon Rich's cha cha for jivers routine on the Chill DVD is in correct cha cha timing.

[Tiger Pants]

........So it's probably better to just dance either chacha or MJ to a given track, I'd suggest.

Unless you have done a workshop that actually helps you incorporate one into the other.....and you can lead it of course:wink:

[David Bailey]

By timing issues, I refer more to the fact that cha cha should start on the 2 and MJ moves tend to start on the 1 or 3. I would talk about upbeats and downbeats but I don't understand them myself.
Actually, some chachas (street style) can start on 1. Which may be easier to teach if you're doing a lot of transitions.


Unless you have done a workshop that actually helps you incorporate one into the other.....and you can lead it of course:wink:
OK, I'll bite. Go on then, explain how this happens.

Being as I'm a bit of a novice in this area of dancing to Latin music, I'd appreciate any tips :flower: :innocent:

[ducasi]

There's classes in Glasgow which teach "Latin Swing", adapting latin dances to the swing style of dancing. I only ever managed to get to one of these classes, but in it we were doing simple swing moves to cha-cha timing.

I thought it worked well. Maybe I should go back to them...