New Marketing Idea ?

[Gus]

A local dance company have come up with a great way to advertise their workshops. I'm not aware of anyone doing this so far ... but I was suitably impressed. Instead of relying on all the usual marketing BS, they've actualty shot some video of them demonstrating what they will be teaching and put it on a free DVD which then gets handed out. Not sure of the production costs, but from a promoters viewpoint you get to see what the workshop is about and what the instructors are about. Good idea? Think it will catch on? You can see thier Dirty Dancing demo here (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/lerocmerseyside/Dirty%20Dance%20Demo.htm) and their Blues demo here (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/lerocmerseyside/blues_dancing_demonstratio.htm)

[Dreadful Scathe]

A local dance company have come up with a great way to advertise their workshops. I'm not aware of anyone doing this so far ... but I was suitably impressed. Instead of relying on all the usual marketing BS, they've actualty shot some video of them demonstrating what they will be teaching and put it on a free DVD which then gets handed out. Not sure of the production costs, but from a promoters viewpoint you get to see what the workshop is about and what the instructors are about. Good idea? Think it will catch on? You can see thier Dirty Dancing demo here (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/lerocmerseyside/Dirty%20Dance%20Demo.htm) and their Blues demo here (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/lerocmerseyside/blues_dancing_demonstratio.htm)
good idea. production costs will be very low with the price of the needed technology today, well worth it.

[Caro]

Instead of relying on all the usual marketing BS, they've actualty shot some video of them demonstrating what they will be teaching and put it on a free DVD which then gets handed out. Not sure of the production costs, but from a promoters viewpoint you get to see what the workshop is about and what the instructors are about. Good idea? Think it will catch on?

hmmm... not sure really.

pros: well, obviously, people see what they will be taught, might convince more people to come along

cons:
- people see what they will be taught, might deter some people to come along :rofl: - see my last remark
- if the DVD quality is good enough, reasonably experienced dancers can pick up the moves without going to the workshops
- cost of doing it

How about simply showing it in the class (yeah I know, logistics issues with screens etc), or sending a youtube link to your customer distribution list ?


You can see thier Dirty Dancing demo here (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/lerocmerseyside/Dirty%20Dance%20Demo.htm) and their Blues demo here (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/lerocmerseyside/blues_dancing_demonstratio.htm)

they sure made sure that I wouldn't want to attend the workshops :innocent: (admittedly I had to watch quickly and without the sound, but seriously, their blues routine ??? why did they not call it Dirty Dancing II ? and did I see a catapult in there... :devil: )

[ducasi]

Ceroc have a free CD with marketing stuff on it, including a video. They also now give a free DVD to beginners.

I'd guess the free marketing CD will become a DVD next time it's revised.

Ultimately though, a free CD or DVD isn't much of a marketing tool on its own – you've got to get them in the right hands and that's where all the effort is.

(EDIT: I'm mainly addressed the CD or DVD for beginner here, which probably isn't what you're talking about, but I think the general point stands.)

[Miguel]

First, get the e-mail address of EVERYBODY who comes through the door and put the links to workshop routines in the newsletter or on the website. The video quality doesn't have to be fantastic as it's just a taster. Directly beneath the video must be the Book Now / PayPal button. A good quality dvd of the complete workshop could be offered (sold) to those who attend the workshop.

[Gus]

they sure made sure that I wouldn't want to attend the workshops :innocent: (admittedly I had to watch quickly and without the sound, but seriously, their blues routine ??? why did they not call it Dirty Dancing II ? and did I see a catapult in there... :devil: )I think the thing is these workshops are really aimed at the beginner market .. where the punters don't really know whats out there. Being honest, how many instructors are there teaching workshops that you would do if you saw them demo in advance? If you have't seen anything to compare to these workshops would look pretty good. If you've seen the better instructors ... well that may be another matter.

At present they are the only ones teaching this stuff in the area. I think there are probably better Blues teachers around ... but is 'not so good' Blues being taught better than really good Blues not being taught?

At least they are being honest about what you are getting. Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my advanceing years but i've seen much workshop hype that has promised much but dleivered little ... and the good parts tend to be what has been culled from the likes of Viktor or Nigel.

[Gus]

First, get the e-mail address of EVERYBODY who comes through the door and put the links to workshop routines in the newsletter or on the website. The video quality doesn't have to be fantastic as it's just a taster. Directly beneath the video must be the Book Now / PayPal button. A good quality dvd of the complete workshop could be offered (sold) to those who attend the workshop.That would work in some situations, but this DVD is being handed out at venues other than their own, e.g. Cool Catz freestyle nights. If you are trying to gain the attention of dancers who don't come to your club and/or are not on your mailing list, it seems likel a pretty good idea to me. By the way, the actual DVD is very well produced, better than the YourTube version.

[Caro]

I think the thing is these workshops are really aimed at the beginner market .. where the punters don't really know whats out there. Being honest, how many instructors are there teaching workshops that you would do if you saw them demo in advance?

just to make it clear, I wasn't commenting on the quality of the instructors' dancing, or the teaching aspect of it, I was merely implying those routines were not to my taste :flower:


Although if it's aimed at beginners indeed... beginners often struggle with the 'closeness' and intimacy aspect of blues dancing, and personally I am not sure that a 'dirty dancing' routine labelled as blues would do anything to lift the apprehensions they may have with regards to UCP dancing.

[Gus]

Just thinking about what Miguel said (any ditrsction to stop me writing this bl@@dy report)....

Given the ease of access to putting vids on the web, wouldn't it be an isea for ALL venues to put some vid of their instructors on yourtube. This would give punters a far better idea of what a clubnight at a venue would be like.

Of course the downside is that though some venues would shine, e.g. those with teh likes of Marc, Paul H etc ... others may not look as good? :whistle:

AND ... while I'm on it, why don't Ceroc produce 'taster' vids of their workshop DVDs, especvially those by Rocky ands Val. Wouldn't that be a great promo fpr the DVDs or their workshops. Must admit that I might follow John and Sungy's lead and try to shoot some promo vid for some future workshops. Of course, the problem is that most people hate how they look on video, instructors even more so. :(

[Blind_Dynamo]

Ceroc Central did something simular at the begining of the year for a few weeks where a new member would get a beginners DVD. I thought that was a good idea as I also this is a good, the cost of the DVD would be factored into the entrance or membership fees.

[LemonCake]

Ceroc Central did something simular at the begining of the year for a few weeks where a new member would get a beginners DVD. I thought that was a good idea as I also this is a good, the cost of the DVD would be factored into the entrance or membership fees.

The key difference was that the DVD given out was NOT free - at the same time the cost for a beginner on their first night went from £4 (half price welcome offer) to £10! I've seen people turn back from the door because it seemed so expensive for a first night of something where they didn't know what they were getting or whether they would enjoy it. Fantastic marketing plan :what:

Every time I go out to muggle venues with anyone who can dance Ceroc, we get bombarded with comments (mostly admiring!) and I always make the point that they can learn too, and give details of local classes. Given that people are hesitant or sceptical, a cheaper or free first lesson is a crucial incentive to try something new (supermarkets do the same thing with new food lines).

Back on-thread, as a convert to the cause I would certainly be interested in seeing what moves were in a workshop because as Caro illustrated, I might not be interested in the moves they're teaching. I'm more likely to make an effort to go if I know I'm particularly keen to do a certain collection of moves, otherwise I'm less likely to gamble the workshop fee.

[Andy McGregor]

I watched the Video. Nice dancing marred by a nasty bad habit. A huge step back from the guy where he locks out his left arm completely! It spoils the whole look of the dance, IMHO. Still, nice movers.

[straycat]

Good marketing idea? TBH, I think it depends who the target market is. For me personally, as with Caro, it does nothing but put me off - particularly the 'Blues' clip, which simply isn't blues. As Gus says though, at least you know what you're getting.

Ultimately, I think they'll certainly work some. I do wonder if they'll frighten off some of the less confident dancers, but perhaps part of the idea is to give an indication of level?

The one thing I object to really is that it gives people a very mÃ*sleading idea of just what blues is :(

[Andy McGregor]

.. and it's a nice looking hall :wink:

Dancing aside, I think the use of a demo DVD could take the place of a busk, or, at the very least it could be a useful add on to give people who show an interest at the busk.

As far as advertising a workshop is concerned. I'll bet you could replace the whole workshop with a DVD at the same price as the one that advertises the workshop.

I teach workhshops all of the time and I find there is very little difficulty getting enough people to sign up. However, if I was to go for larger numbers maybe I'd use a DVD - but that would spoil the teacher student ratio that you need for people to get the most out of a workshop. It sounds to me like these people are looking to mass-market a 3 or 4 hour lesson and calling it a workshop. Something very different from a workshop for 10 couples.

[straycat]

.. and it's a nice looking hall :wink:

Dancing aside, I think the use of a demo DVD could take the place of a busk, or, at the very least it could be a useful add on to give people who show an interest at the busk.
It is indeed a nice looking hall.

I don't think a DVD could replace a busk. As an add-on, yeah - but I don't think there's any real substitute for real people dancing and having fun busk-style - plus the ability for the buskers to chat to passers-by - you can't beat that personal touch.



As far as advertising a workshop is concerned. I'll bet you could replace the whole workshop with a DVD at the same price as the one that advertises the workshop.

Well - quite likely for a basic one (depending on the quality of the DVD, mind - the best ones I have must've taken a lot of time and effort to put together - and they're the best from a learners perspective as well as a presentation one)

But again - there's no substitute for having a great teacher there, in front of you, tailoring a workshop to the needs of the attendees, and giving you live feedback.
Accept no substitutes (although a workshop DVD would, again, be a great piece of reinforcement for when people have left, and memory's started to fade)

[Paul F]

Hmmm. Not sure about the 'preview' clips. As has been mentioned, unless you can make the clip enticing its a dangerous game.

One of the greatest marketing hooks I have seen in the past few years is the aforementioned Ceroc dvd. I watched it and thought it was an absolutely brilliant idea. It seemed professionally done and got the right message across. I did wonder why they weren't going crazy and giving them to everyone but I guess thats costly.
One bit imparticular was the clip of the actual class. In my years of teaching, both Ceroc and other organisations, one of the biggest concerns people have is about how the class actually works. Its getting them in for that first couple of times. That DVD explained it really well.
IMO any preview DVDs should focus on promoting dancing rather than the actual lesson.

I use video clips myself to reinforce what I taught in various lessons (depending obviously on copyright i.e. who I taught for) and publish them to passworded sections of my website. That way the people that actually attended can go and see video clips but only after the event. The last thing I would want is people trying to teach themselves to get a 'head start' :sick: :sick:
Its the same with the written material I produce. I generally only publish it AFTER the event and not before. Too dangerous otherwise for the same reason!

[Lory]

I
Still, nice movers.
Yes, nice movers but I think the 'sound' and the 'pic' were possibly a tad out of synch when I viewed it, either that or they weren't dancing in time? :confused:

[Andy McGregor]

Yes, nice movers but I think the 'sound' and the 'pic' were possibly a tad out of synch when I viewed it, either that or they weren't dancing in time? :confused:I viewed it on a PC without turning on the sound. If they can have such a huge, uncorrected and basic, bad habit they could just as easily dance off the beat.

There are all sorts of bad teachers out there. Last night I taught a lesson where the, previously resident, teacher had walked off in an artistic huff. I'd seen this teacher take a lesson before and was not impressed, although, IMHO he is a stylish, although very stylised and selfish, dancer.

The venue manager told me that there was nobody new in the room. However, I still started the night with a beginners lesson, just in case somebody new came in just after I'd done the demo. Thank goodness I did! This was a whole room full of people who had not been taught the basics. They all thought they could dance because they were doing what the teacher had taught. Which mostly seemed to be bits of choreographed cabaret routines with very little lead and follow :tears:

Now, to get back on topic. The couple teaching on the DVD will produce a cohort of dancers who repeat their bad habits.

Which brings me back to an old topic. Where is the QC in MJ teaching?

[straycat]

Where is the QC in MJ teaching?

Some say MIA - or at least BYO - (a bit non-PC, IMHO), although AFAIK the CTA seeks to apply STEPP to bring QC to MJ.
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IGMC.

[LemonCake]

Just watched the video (earlier comment was on principle of using dvds rather than this actual dvd)



they sure made sure that I wouldn't want to attend the workshops :innocent:
:yeah: :blush:


(admittedly I had to watch quickly and without the sound,
In some places it wouldn't have made much difference :what:


but seriously, their blues routine ??? why did they not call it Dirty Dancing II ? and did I see a catapult in there... :devil: )

Two! :really:

I didn't really feel they had connected to the music. Not that I'm claiming any expertise at all but I've watched more engaging dances which were freestyled, and they've had the opportunity to plan and practice these!

(I still wish I could get my spare arm looking half as good though :blush: )

[Andy McGregor]

I still wish I could get my spare arm looking half as good though :blush:This "looking good" thing is a tender trap. We all want to dance like Viktor. So we go to his workshops and do what he does. Even if we can copy what he does exactly, we won't look like Viktor :tears:

Viktor is a great dancer as well as having the looks. But some people have the looks but are average dancers - their attractiveness carries the day. So we have good looking people being told they are brilliant dancers. Before you know it they're setting up workshops and telling other people they can look like them when they dance. They can't :tears:

What you need is a short, balding, slightly overweight, ageing dance teacher. If he can look good when he dances it must be because he can dance - go to his workshops :whistle:

[Chef]

Videos as marketing tools

In principle they sound like a fairly good idea, at least for the student rather than the teacher. I have always found that videos are great as aids to memory but fairly poor as a primary tool for learning because it is way too easy to miss (visually) the small but important details that the teacher will cover in the lesson.

When I go to weekenders I am often in the situation of thinking, from the description of the class, that I would like to attend but that it conflicts with another class that I also want to attend. I turn up at the class I am most interested in and watch the demo at the beginning of the class and then make a decision as to whether I will stay or go to the alternative class. An online video of the content of a workshop would allow me to make a more informed decision about whether I want to spend time and resources travelling to the workshop. The overall effect of these online videos MAY be to put off people from attending and thereby decrease numbers of people attending.

In the particular case of the video used on this thread I feel I must give them the benefit of the doubt and say that I have seen some video encoders that have produced files where the sound and motion were out of sync. As for the other faults in their dancing I would suspect that if you knew enough to be able to spot these you probably know enough to not find anything of value in the lesson

[straycat]

Viktor is a great dancer as well as having the looks. But some people have the looks but are average dancers - their attractiveness carries the day. So we have good looking people being told they are brilliant dancers.
Despite my natural tendency to cynicism, I don't buy this. Yes, there are a few people who are that shallow, but I wouldn't pin that label on the majority.



What you need is a short, balding, slightly overweight, ageing dance teacher.
Hey - maybe I should apply! (two out of four ain't bad :whistle:)

[Andy McGregor]

Despite my natural tendency to cynicism, I don't buy this. Yes, there are a few people who are that shallow, but I wouldn't pin that label on the majority.Welcome to the real world. Think about dance competitions, they're part dance, part fashion, part beauty contest. Put two equal dancers in a competition, dress one couple in a sexy way and make them up to look lovely, put the others in no make-up and boiler suits and see who wins.

In the world of dance we compete for the attention of our students. Us tall, dark, handsome and young teachers are bound to be more popular than short, fat, balding old gits :clap:

[Gus]

The couple teaching on the DVD will produce a cohort of dancers who repeat their bad habits.

Which brings me back to an old topic. Where is the QC in MJ teaching?Wish I'd ommitted to the link now :(

John and Sungy are LeRoc trained/qualified. You can make of that what you will. I'n not sure about their class teaching and I think Andy's comment is unjustified without seeing that. I must admit I think their move into teaching Blues/Dirty Dancing is a bit ambitous. I think you need some significant teaching AND Blues experience before you should try teaching it. I don't know exactly what the content of the workshop is ... but the type of thing in the demo would probably take about 3 separate workshops to teach properly (IMHO). Especially with new instructors and workshops is that they tend to teach too much, teach just the moves and omit teaching the feel / balance / lead implications.

ANYWAY ... I still think the DVD and/or YouTube concept is excellent.:waycool:

[MartinHarper]

Welcome to the real world. Think about dance competitions, they're part dance, part fashion, part beauty contest. Put two equal dancers in a competition, dress one couple in a sexy way and make them up to look lovely, put the others in no make-up and boiler suits and see who wins.

Another reason I liked the Strictly Swing category at the Grand Nationals. Costumes were forbidden.

[Daisy Chain]

Another reason I liked the Strictly Swing category at the Grand Nationals. Costumes were forbidden.


What, completely naked? :what: Count me out, I wouldn't know where to look!

Daisy

(A Fully Dressed Little Flower)

[straycat]

Welcome to the real world. Think about dance competitions, they're part dance, part fashion, part beauty contest. Put two equal dancers in a competition, dress one couple in a sexy way and make them up to look lovely, put the others in no make-up and boiler suits and see who wins.


The ones who dance better on the night. Clearly :innocent:



In the world of dance we compete for the attention of our students. Us tall, dark, handsome and young teachers are bound to be more popular than short, fat, balding old gits :clap:

We just let our dancing, teaching & events speak for themselves. If people like what we do, they keep coming. (Yes - we advertise, but that's aimed to remain in people's consciousness & to keep them informed as to what's going on)

[Andy McGregor]

I'm not sure about their class teaching and I think Andy's comment is unjustified without seeing that.I didn't comment about their teaching. There was none of that on the clip. I commented only on their dancing. Anybody who publishes their dancing on the net must expect a critique of their dancing. Plus, any dancing links posted on a dancing forum are bound to be analysed for the quality of the dancing. IMHO, Gus is unjustified in criticising me - if he didn't want a critique of this couples dancing to appear on the forum he shouldn't have posted a link to it.