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TA Guy
21st-April-2007, 12:09 PM
Inspired by the recent 'aerials banned' thread where it was politely pointed out that maybe the banning of aerials was because Ceroc was run by a lot of old fuddyduddys who don't know what the younger set want.

I'd also point out that the general standard of fast dancing, I.E. Dancing which takes energy and life, has declined a lot in the last ten years or so. That has, of course, been matched by a rise in the popularity of slow dancing. To the point where Ceroc have opened there own old peoples home called 'Utopia' (sorry, couldn't resist that, only a joke!).

Personally, whenever I've walked into a freestyle, and I've felt amongst one of the youngest there (I'm in my forties, and it does happen), the freestyle has always been pretty uninspiring. I think you need the energy and enthusiasm of youth.

Is Ceroc becoming old ?

Double Trouble
21st-April-2007, 12:16 PM
Is Ceroc becoming old ?


I think it depends where you go.

At a weekender I have never felt too young or too old (I'm 35). Similarly, I feel that the nights out in London are quite young, but at some freestyles, Cheshunt for example, I'm usually one of the youngest there.

I think you have to be prepared to travel, depending on your preference.

Trousers
21st-April-2007, 01:29 PM
(I'm 35)

Snigger!

Ghost
21st-April-2007, 01:30 PM
At a Jango class class Amir said that if thought a move might hurt him he might go **** it and do it anyway. If it might hurt someone else he wouldn't.

Airsteps on an empty floor. Private practice. A hall hired out where airsteppers can dance to their hearts content a la the T-Jive, Comps. Rivers, swimming pools :whistle: - go for it.

But when you start endangering the others around you it's another matter.

Yes it's annoying when someone elbows me in the ribs or steps on my foot in heels. It's a lot more annoying to be kicked in the head!

Maybe I'm just old.........

LMC
21st-April-2007, 02:33 PM
I think it depends where you go.

At a weekender I have never felt too young or too old (I'm 35). Similarly, I feel that the nights out in London are quite young, but at some freestyles, Cheshunt for example, I'm usually one of the youngest there.

I think you have to be prepared to travel, depending on your preference.
:yeah: (I'm 36)

People with the attitude "Get rid of the old people" are fortunately in a tiny minority. And as they are in a minority, they can **** off, frankly.

I think the standard of fast dancing has declined owing to an overall change in musical tastes. Chart music is generally slower than it was several years back (more R'n'B than Ibiza). Nothing to do with an ageing dance population.

Blind_Dynamo
21st-April-2007, 02:54 PM
My feels towards age are "if you can swing it, then bring it on. Age is irrelevant it's the person that's important."

dave the scaffolder
21st-April-2007, 03:12 PM
In my day you lot of you would have been hoprse whipped.

You bunch of whippersnapers.

XXX XXX Wheres me zimmer and HAVE I BEEN to the loo yet.....oh bollox too late

Nurse Nurse its all red and swollen. XXX

Trousers
21st-April-2007, 03:32 PM
I'm an antique but I love to jive fast


I do it well too, I think :waycool: did I say that :eek: :whistle:


But you dance to the music thats on and that means you are at the mercy of the platter captain.

Ghost
21st-April-2007, 03:33 PM
Based on this http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/beginners-corner/8368-poll-age-ceroc-goers.html
it's for all ages :clap: :clap: :clap:

jivecat
21st-April-2007, 06:01 PM
Is Ceroc becoming old ?


Well, if it is, suits me! I don't object to seeing young people at venues, but I wouldn't miss them if they weren't there. The under 25s make very little contribution to my dancing pleasure (although I thought the one dance I've had with young Jamie was absolutely fantastic - he looked a bit edgy though.:devil: )

Double Trouble
21st-April-2007, 07:40 PM
Well, if it is, suits me! I don't object to seeing young people at venues, but I wouldn't miss them if they weren't there. The under 25s make very little contribution to my dancing pleasure (although I thought the one dance I've had with young Jamie was absolutely fantastic - he looked a bit edgy though.:devil: )

:yeah: the youngsters are ok but they do like to do things a bit frantic, like.:wink:

All my 'wow factor' dances have been with people my age or older.:worthy:

the whale
21st-April-2007, 07:42 PM
:yeah: the youngsters are ok but they do like to do things a bit frantic, like.:wink:

All my 'wow factor' dances have been with people my age or older.:worthy:

What constitutes a 'wow factor'?

Double Trouble
21st-April-2007, 07:43 PM
What constitutes a 'wow factor'?

A dance with you?:flower:

the whale
21st-April-2007, 07:47 PM
A dance with you?:flower:

I don't believe it, probably my first serious question on this forum...

and you make me blush :blush:

David Franklin
21st-April-2007, 07:53 PM
Inspired by the recent 'aerials banned' thread where it was politely pointed out that maybe the banning of aerials was because Ceroc was run by a lot of old fuddyduddys who don't know what the younger set want.The funny thing about this the most of the top aerials couples are actually pretty old compared to people in the other competition categories. At 37, Bryony and I are one of the younger couples in fact. And on the world stage, David and Sharon Savoy were runners up at Blackpool in 2005 when (I think) they were in their 50s.


I'd also point out that the general standard of fast dancing, I.E. Dancing which takes energy and life, has declined a lot in the last ten years or so. That has, of course, been matched by a rise in the popularity of slow dancing.Too true. As exemplified by the rise of WCS. I blame the teachers. It's those old fogies lacking energy and life like Jordan and Tatianna, Parker and Jessica, Benji and Heidi just dragging the scene down.

Double Trouble
21st-April-2007, 08:05 PM
I don't believe it, probably my first serious question on this forum...

and you make me blush :blush:

Bless. You are so sweet.:love: :hug: :love:

This has been discussed before and is off topic, but seeing as you asked.

The wow factor, for me, would have the following.

Great moves
great connection
usually, but not always, sexual chemistry
a great track to dance to
and that certain....I don't know what (sorry, I cant write in French):D

Basically, it all just works and feels amazing. I think I can count on one hand the wow factors I've had over the last few years.:wink:

the whale
21st-April-2007, 08:07 PM
Bless. You are so sweet.:love: :hug: :love:

This has been discussed before and is off topic, but seeing as you asked.

The wow factor, for me, would have the following.

Great moves
great connection
usually, but not always, sexual chemistry
a great track to dance to
and that certain....I don't know what (sorry, I cant write in French):D

Basically, it all just works and feels amazing. I think I can count on one hand the wow factors I've had over the last few years.:wink:

Bloody hell, & I do all that??? That's it... I'm retiring undefeated :wink:

Mezzosoprano
21st-April-2007, 11:02 PM
Define young! I'm 37 (and not ashamed to say it!) and I don't feel old! I like slow dances, I like FAST dances (bring on Candyman and New Shoes). I've danced with people older than me and people younger than me... I really feel that it's not about the number.. It's about the attitude and the willingness to try new things and to get out there and enjoy your dancing...

And Mr Whale, Sir, I just bet you do do all those things!!:wink::devil:

Lethe
22nd-April-2007, 12:01 AM
It does annoy me when people descriminate by age. I noticed that a few ceroc 'facebook' pages have been started but have been put off joining them by some of the comments made e.g. suggestions of 'under 30's free styles' or even 'under 25's free styles'. I think it is sad that people feel the need to encourage such segregation. One of the things that attracted me to ceroc was the way it was enclusive of all ages. Okay so some people might want to dance to faster/slower music but this doesn't necessarily correlate with age and you can't please everyone all of the time.

Chef
22nd-April-2007, 06:31 PM
Ceroc doesn't seem to be just for the old. It seems to be for those people with the inclination and the time.

I get a lot of univeristy age students spending industrial years at the company that I work for and if their response is anything to go by then going dancing is seriously uncool unless a someone (usually female) you have the hots for is begging you to go to. Most of the people that are a bit older than them (approx 25-35) seem to be doing the having and bringing up children thing and that occupies most of their time.

After that age people find themselves with more free time either due to their child rearing responsibilies decreasing or they have seperated from their partner and it is a convenient way of getting out and meeting the opposite sex without it looking too obvious.

Yes there are young people that like to dance and not everyone that dances is primarly there to meet a special someone. If you banned peple above the age of 35 from going into ceroc venues I doubt you would have enough people to sustain all but a very few venues.

As for the music and the dancing getting slower I think it just might be a symptom of the dancing growing up and becoming more about skill and control and less about uncontrolled wild energy. A number of the younger people I meet on the dance scene equate skill with speed. However it does seem to me that if you can't dance in time with the music, with control, precision, connection and musicality when the music is slow then there is little hope that you can do it when the music is fast. The result of trying to run before you can walk in dancing often looks like an octopus being thrown around in a tumble drier - at least to my eyes. Never the less, they are having fun as they see it.

What I am after is a mixture in terms of the mood of the music and its tempo and I think there are many valuable things to be learnt in learning to dance slowly, most of which are useful when dancing fast.

Fast modern pop music is great to dance to. I also like MacDonalds quarter pounders with cheese, fries and diet coke - but I wouldn't want to have it for 50 consecutive meals.

BeccaB
22nd-April-2007, 07:07 PM
Well, if it is, suits me! I don't object to seeing young people at venues, but I wouldn't miss them if they weren't there. The under 25s make very little contribution to my dancing pleasure (although I thought the one dance I've had with young Jamie was absolutely fantastic - he looked a bit edgy though.:devil: )

I feel that my 23 years are against me a little! There's no age discrimination in ceroc or any other kind of dancing, surely it's down to the music, the follower and the leader no matter the age.
(Should I now go away till I hit my next big birthday? I'll get my coat if someone starts making the cake now!)

Lynn
22nd-April-2007, 07:30 PM
Some of the most energetic dancing I've ever done was with a gentleman well advanced in years. It was pretty fast swing and it took more out of me than him.

I don't think the age issue has anything to do with energy or dance style and everything to do with marketing.

I think an individual venue will attract a dominant age group, simply because people will bring their friends and others in the same age range will feel more comfortable.

I know I want to go dancing at venues that are inclusive and attract all ages (and my local venue does).

Trousers
22nd-April-2007, 10:28 PM
. . . . . I've had. .young Jamie . . . . . :devil:

Jesus, That'll teach me to speed read


Go girl Go girl
xxx

jivecat
23rd-April-2007, 10:03 AM
Jesus, That'll teach me to speed read


Go girl Go girl
xxx

Sheesh, Trousers, you're frightening the horses!

Chef
23rd-April-2007, 10:18 AM
Having had overnight to think about this I still believe that Ceroc is for people of all ages and being exposed to a wide range of dance music is a good thing for dancers of all ages.

BUT

I can see that there may be a market for an event that would especially appeal to Ceroc dancers in the 18-30 age range (you don't have to be under 30 to get in just like the sort of music that is played there). After all, Utopia was set up to serve the desires of dancers who wanted to dance to slower music so perhaps a few events that targeted the dancers that liked mostly fast music could be put on to see if they do attract enough people to make them a regular event.

I haven't been to Jive Nation in central London but from what I hear on this forum it gives me the impression that the music there is pretty new and high energy. Perhaps this is the place to look to see if such events are likely to attract a sufficiently large clientele.

Jamie
23rd-April-2007, 06:23 PM
All ages. I dance with everyone, be it old, young, fat, thin, male, female, white, green, black, blue, orange... Don't care.

Some of my best dances are with people of a "mature" age. Likewise, I've had a wicked dance with Joe, Fletch's son, and he's 9 or 10.

It's nice to speak to people my own age though, that said, many of my friends are double my age.

To me age is irrelevant. I love Minnie M's signature, "Age is mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter!"

I've probably gone hugely off topic cause I'm very sleepy from Chill, but hey.. WHAT U GONNA DO BOUT IT? :D

Rios Dearg
23rd-April-2007, 10:57 PM
All ages. I dance with everyone, be it old, young, fat, thin, male, female, white, green, black, blue, orange... Don't care.

...To me age is irrelevant. I love Minnie M's signature, "Age is mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter!"

:yeah: What he said!

To say what many have already said, it was primarily the mix of ages and music which entranced me to start with, and which brings me back, week after week. The lack of any kind of -ism (add your own prefix). The complete acceptance of, and joy in, people as individuals - not as stereotypes.

Im *cough* a lot older than anyone who has admitted their age so far, and yet most nights, the minute I get on the dance floor I am a 16 year old again, and can keep up with anyone!

In fact, some cant keep up with me!:wink:

Minnie M
23rd-April-2007, 11:06 PM
Is Ceroc for old people ?

Depends what you are going to Ceroc for :whistle:

If it is for dancing ......... hey what has age got to do with it :yeah:

I can have a great dance dance with Jamie, Jammy, Adam (of Adam & Tas) etc etc., and age has nothing to do with it, and I am old enough to be their grandmother :tears:

Raul
23rd-April-2007, 11:41 PM
All ages. I dance with everyone, be it old, young, fat, thin, male, female, white, green, black, blue, orange... Don't care.



I've done all of these except green, blue and orange.

Must find a punk on a cold day who has been spun a few times too many.

fletch
24th-April-2007, 08:53 AM
Well, if it is, suits me! I don't object to seeing young people at venues, but I wouldn't miss them if they weren't there. The under 25s make very little contribution to my dancing pleasure (although I thought the one dance I've had with young Jamie was absolutely fantastic - he looked a bit edgy though.:devil: )


they proberbly wouldn't miss you :flower:

I like to encourage younger people to come into MJ they seem to bring a don't care what we look like just keep practising and have a go attitude :worthy:

Jamie gets load of people talking to him about spinning, but I carn't tell you how many time I have seen him fall over, he just gets up and tries again:respect:

I find as people get older they are less likely to 'go for it' incase they look silly :blush:


Some of my best dances are with people of a "mature" age. Likewise, I've had a wicked dance with Joe, Fletch's son, and he's 9 or 10.

many of my friends are double my age.


WHAT U GONNA DO BOUT IT? :D

yeah! and can give you a run for your money :D

ooooooer thats sounds like fighting talk :eek: I will arange to have your Ar$e smacked next time I see you :whistle:



and Joe's nearly as tall as you :grin:


:
Im *cough* a lot older than anyone who has admitted their age so far, and yet most nights, the minute I get on the dance floor I am a 16 year old again, and can keep up with anyone!

In fact, some cant keep up with me!:wink:

:yeah:

I don't understand why people need to keep there age a secret, you carn't change it, its a number :confused: and what does it say about you if you wan't people to think your a differnt age,:what: is it that they think if others see them as younger it will make them more popular :confused:


did I tell anyone i'm have just had a birthday i'm now 28 :na:




Depends what you are going to Ceroc for :whistle:

If it is for dancing ......... hey what has age got to do with it :yeah:




:yeah:


I've done all of these except green, blue and orange.

Must find a punk on a cold day who has been spun a few times too many.

there are a few of us old punks still left,:clap: i'm up for a spinning :hug:

jivecat
24th-April-2007, 10:52 AM
they proberbly wouldn't miss you :flower:



I think that's the point I'm trying to make. As I said, they probably aren't intending to contribute much to my enjoyment. The thread started off as a bit of an anti-old-people dig, I'm not going to resist wading in to redress the balance!

People have said everything that is right, proper and politically correct about dancing with blue, green, purple, multi-headed, etc (As I do when I go dancing, although I probably ask to dance less with very young people out of consideration for them!) but it would be interesting to see, in practice, how much crossover actually occurs between age-groups, and whether it occurs equally, younger men to older women and younger women to older men.

After all, it is not uncommon for women, in particular, to complain that they suspect age is a factor in getting invited (or not) for a dance. I don't know if that's true or not. How could we find out?

Sorry, this is off-thread, not really what TA Guy seemed to be asking. Is Ceroc dominated by people in older age-groups? Yes I think so, probably easily proved. It's the effect of masses of child-free, time-rich & affluent Baby-boomers who are probably in ascendance in the poulation as a whole, not just Ceroc. As I said, not a problem for me.

What has never really got discussed much on the forum is how and when aging is likely to start having a significant effect on dancing skills and physical ability. It shouldn't really have an effect on purely social dancing for the reasons which have already been mentioned. But it's reasonable to suppose that the physical effects of age are going to make themselves felt sooner or later, so - how?


To say what many have already said, it was primarily the mix of ages and music which entranced me to start with, and which brings me back, week after week. The lack of any kind of -ism (add your own prefix). The complete acceptance of, and joy in, people as individuals - not as stereotypes.I agree that, if this is true, it is a delightful feature of attending a dance event - but it was most definitely not what kept me coming back for more. A big part of the thrill for me was acquiring fluency and expertise in a physical skill, pushing myself to my physical limits and enjoying the fact that I could train my body do exactly what I wanted it to do. Age will certainly have a bearing on that.

fletch
24th-April-2007, 11:18 AM
although I probably ask to dance less with very young people out of consideration for them!)




I don't get this comment :confused:

when I see a new young person that I havn't seen before, i'm straight over like a shot, :whistle: I ask them to dance a always make an effort to chat,:hug: I wan't them to feel welcome, not differen and standing out :flower:

if you don't ignore the young that have the courage to come, hopfully they won't see us a 'misserable old gits' :flower:

jivecat
24th-April-2007, 11:41 AM
I don't get this comment :confused:

when I see a new young person that I havn't seen before, i'm straight over like a shot, :whistle: I ask them to dance a always make an effort to chat,:hug: I wan't them to feel welcome, not differen and standing out :flower:

if you don't ignore the young that have the courage to come, hopfully they won't see us a 'misserable old gits' :flower:

I assume that a young bloke will be mainly interested in dancing with other young people. I observe that this is often the case. I don't wish to be, potentially, seen as perving on someone who might be 30 years younger than me so I am likely to keep my distance unless I have good reason to believe that they will be open-minded about who they dance with. As clearly, some are. But probably not all.

I bear in mind that for every person who swears on this forum that they're delighted to dance with all and sundry there's another one who has stated or implied that some partners are less desirable than others, based on purely physical characteristics. So I just find whatever way that suits me of tiptoeing through the minefield. Your way is to pile in and be everybody's friend. I applaud that, and think you are exceptional in your ability and willingness to do that.

Sometimes I like to look around me to see who might like to be included and made to feel welcome. But not always. I'm not a saint.:rolleyes: But I wouldn't single out the under 25s as the most disadvantaged group in Ceroc & thus most needy of my welcoming ministrations.

What's with all these :flower: :flower: :flower: ? You opening a florist's shop? :innocent:

fletch
24th-April-2007, 11:57 AM
I assume that a young bloke will be mainly interested in dancing with other young people. I observe that this is often the case. I don't wish to be, potentially, seen as perving on someone who might be 30 years younger than me so I am likely to keep my distance unless I have good reason to believe that they will be open-minded about who they dance with. As clearly, some are. But probably not all.

Your way is to pile in and be everybody's friend. I applaud that, and think you are exceptional in your ability and willingness to do that.

I'm not a saint.:rolleyes: But I wouldn't single out the under 25s as the most disadvantaged group in Ceroc & thus most needy of my welcoming ministrations.

What's with all these :flower: :flower: :flower: ? You opening a florist's shop? :innocent:


firstly all the :flower: are because I am aware that posts can be take the wrong way, or not the way it was intended, I was hoping with the you would realise I my post was not meant nasty, you know me I was just been a saint.:rolleyes:

why would you think that dancing with someone young will be looked at as perving, guilty minds :confused: and who is it that your so bothered about thinking this :confused: every one or just certin people :confused:

is it me :confused: trying to be what you think people want you to be, well it all seem like hard work and confussing :(




give me a young man and a firm bum to grope any time :wink:


:rofl:





ooooer I hope you don't think i'm perving :whistle:

Mac
24th-April-2007, 12:15 PM
give me a young man and a firm bum to grope any time :wink:


:rofl:


Young & Firm don't always go ......ahem .....Hand in hand !!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I have just voted that Ceroc is getting old. So am I, so are we all. But it does not mean it or us are losing energy. I danced with youngsters at Chill who could not keep up to a fast track and.... you only have to see whos around at 6 30 am to see where the energy lies.!! :respect::respect::respect:


(but then if you,ve run out of energy, you wouldn't would you :whistle: :whistle: )

Chef
24th-April-2007, 12:21 PM
I am also one of those people that is wary of dancing with young and pretty women because there is always a concern in my mind that they MAY harbour a suspicion that my desire to dance with them will be will be based mostly on their youth and beauty. I also think that the situation is more severe for older men asking young women to dance than it is for older women asking young men to dance. The terms “dirty old man” or “lecherous old man” are quite well used but there doesn’t seem to be a similar phrase to be pointed at females because that situation so rarely arises.

So, I am concerned how my approaches to young female dancers may be viewed. I feel much more comfortable when I am sure that they know that I am happily partnered and can see that I don’t exclusively dance with the young women in a venue. I also dance with the young ( 14ish) daughter of a forumite on those few occasions when we meet at events and I feel comfortable about that because I know that her mother knows me quite well and is present in the room as well. I just would not dance with her that otherwise.

I know my partners’ daughter was put off dancing, mostly because on her one and only trip to a dance venue the only people asking her to dance in the freestyle were the older men in the room despite our efforts at making introductions for her. Were these older men simply being kind and welcoming to new dancers or was there another agenda that they were following? I don’t know but it certainly put No1 daughter off of ever trying MJ again.

It also seems to be the case that is a man is accused of impropriety they find themselves in the situation of having to prove themselves innocent (as many a school teacher has found) and even if they can do that beyond doubt people still harbour suspicions long after the event. It is a position I would not like to lay myself open to and so I am very careful about dancing with young women that I hardly know.

Caro
24th-April-2007, 12:34 PM
I'd also point out that the general standard of fast dancing, I.E. Dancing which takes energy and life, has declined a lot in the last ten years or so. That has, of course, been matched by a rise in the popularity of slow dancing. To the point where Ceroc have opened there own old peoples home called 'Utopia' (sorry, couldn't resist that, only a joke!).

Personally, whenever I've walked into a freestyle, and I've felt amongst one of the youngest there (I'm in my forties, and it does happen), the freestyle has always been pretty uninspiring. I think you need the energy and enthusiasm of youth.


I'm not sure you can really relate age and speed of the music. I'm 26, so I guess that makes me one of the younger ones, and I like slow (very slow in fact) music. I don't have any injury, I can dance fast, I just don't like it as much. To me the average music that is played in ceroc freestyle is too fast and pop-y for my taste (although I'll dance to it for lack of other options). Am I simply an exception?

I don't usually find fast dancing more inspiring than slow dancing either...

May be if you like faster music and a more energetic style, you should try some different style like rock'n'roll or lindy ?

stewart38
24th-April-2007, 12:46 PM
It does annoy me when people descriminate by age. I noticed that a few ceroc 'facebook' pages have been started but have been put off joining them by some of the comments made e.g. suggestions of 'under 30's free styles' or even 'under 25's free styles'. I think it is sad that people feel the need to encourage such segregation. One of the things that attracted me to ceroc was the way it was enclusive of all ages. Okay so some people might want to dance to faster/slower music but this doesn't necessarily correlate with age and you can't please everyone all of the time.

I started doing ‘ceroc’ when I was 29 and felt my age was about ‘average’

Im 42 now and still think my age is about ‘average’

Probably the ‘average age’ has gone up 8/10 yrs ? in the last 13yrs ? I don’t know maybe it hasn’t ? what is the average age now ,40 ?

If I was running it as a business you bet id aim it at the younger market

I don’t think ceroc is for ‘old people’ but it will be interesting to see what happens with it in the next 15yrs.

I think there are far more people in ceroc in their 50s and 60s now cf mid 1990s. that could be bo***** of course

Mac
24th-April-2007, 12:51 PM
If you were running it as a business you would be missing the target. :wink: Older people have more money more time and more commitment.

that makes good business sense to me. The young target is a futures gamble. and for that of course its a valid one:clap:

stewart38
24th-April-2007, 01:04 PM
I also think that the situation is more severe for older men asking young women to dance than it is for older women asking young men to dance. The terms “dirty old man” or “lecherous old man” are quite well used but there doesn’t seem to be a similar phrase to be pointed at females because that situation so rarely arises.



Speak for yourself !

An older women at Chill said she had strained her thigh and asked me to have a feel, no lie

Checking the other thigh for comparison and dancing another 5 tracks ,afterwards I felt totally ‘used’. What do you call women like that ? (by phone I think ?)

Id never dance with someone under 20 (unless of course was a friends daughter etc)

Twirly
24th-April-2007, 01:42 PM
Some of the most energetic dancing I've ever done was with a gentleman well advanced in years. It was pretty fast swing and it took more out of me than him.

:yeah:


What has never really got discussed much on the forum is how and when aging is likely to start having a significant effect on dancing skills and physical ability. It shouldn't really have an effect on purely social dancing for the reasons which have already been mentioned. But it's reasonable to suppose that the physical effects of age are going to make themselves felt sooner or later, so - how?

A big part of the thrill for me was acquiring fluency and expertise in a physical skill, pushing myself to my physical limits and enjoying the fact that I could train my body do exactly what I wanted it to do. Age will certainly have a bearing on that.

:yeah:

This might take this thread slightly off track, but not sure if it warrants an entirely new thread (so moderators – feel free if you think it does!).

My general feeling is that there are few older women in Ceroc (by which I mean 55+ - apologies in advance if that causes anyone offence, but please note that I am saying older and not old), than there are older men. Follows (who are generally women) expend more energy with all that spinning and stuff (usually – obviously there are many energetic male dancers too, as evidence by all that shirt changing). I’ve danced with some absolutely wonderful older male leads (60’s-70’s), and they’ve made me work very hard whilst apparently exerting little effort themselves! So I wonder if the aging process, as the physical ability to be so energetic wanes, has or will weed the sexes out differently?

Beowulf
24th-April-2007, 02:53 PM
So I wonder if the aging process, as the physical ability to be so energetic wanes, has or will weed the sexes out differently?

Well I'm 73 and I certainly feel my energy waning :)

..

..

..

..

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sorry 37.. it just feels like I'm 73

shoequeen
24th-April-2007, 04:15 PM
I'm 20 and I've never felt uncomfortable dancing with someone older than me as i think dancing ability is far more important.

However most of my frinds are put off coming with me because they percieve the average age to be too old, and they chose to go to dances such as salsa instead, which is percieved 2be a bit cooler. Maybe this is also down to the lack of awareness of ceroc amongst younger people. My university halls are opposite the Ceroc venue and I'm yet to meet someone who's even heard of it, which i think is a wasted opportunity.

I've just got back from Chill and it was good to be around people my age who dance, but as always my best dances came from a varied age range. But above all i love to dance and I'm most concerned than other younger people might be missing out! :sad:

seamus
24th-April-2007, 04:56 PM
I can see that there may be a market for an event that would especially appeal to Ceroc dancers in the 18-30 age range (you don't have to be under 30 to get in just like the sort of music that is played there). ...I haven't been to Jive Nation in central London but from what I hear on this forum it gives me the impression that the music there is pretty new and high energy. Perhaps this is the place to look to see if such events are likely to attract a sufficiently large clientele.

Okay, so my first post since joining this forum and I suppose I have to answer this post as I have a bit of, shall we say, inside knowledge ;-)

I'm 36 and I find that when I go to a regular Ceroc venue, I am at about the bottom age range of the majority. There are usually younger people around (though not always) , but it isn't many, just a handfull. When I started Ceroc, the Tories were in power, the Central Club was the place to go and Fulham was in the Leopard Lounge. At that time, in my mid 20's, I was at the bottom age range of the majority. How does that happen? The majority of the people that do Modern Jive (as I include a lot of the independants in this) are definitely much older than 10 years ago. In-fact, I would almost suggest that over the last 10 years, new younger people haven't really been targeted as the entry prices have gone up, the music hasn't stayed as current as it once was and the marketing is geard to the majority age group - who have disposable income.

So, what is going on at JN? Well, the music is much more current, certainly more music from the current charts. It isn't the music that people heard at the launch party - that was more clubbing type music, but it is music that appleals to younger people or those that what to challenge their dancing.

The age range at JN is much more diverse than any other night I know. The youngest are 18, there are many in their early to mid-20's and our top age is exactly the same as Ceroc (whatever that might be ;-)

fletch
24th-April-2007, 05:11 PM
Okay, so my first post since joining this forum and I suppose I have to answer this post as I have a bit of, shall we say, inside knowledge ;-)




welcome to the mad house :eek: :hug:

I hope we get lots of posts from you shay,:worthy: and where were you hiding at the weekend :tears:


:kiss:

seamus
24th-April-2007, 05:35 PM
welcome to the mad house :eek: :hug:

I hope we get lots of posts from you shay,:worthy: and where were you hiding at the weekend :tears:


:kiss:

Unfortuantely I had to leave the weekender Saturday morning to come back down to London to organise something with a TV company....... :wink:

I guess I owe you a few dances then do I?

fletch
24th-April-2007, 05:44 PM
Unfortuantely I had to leave the weekender Saturday morning to come back down to London to organise something with a TV company....... :wink:

I guess I owe you a few dances then do I?



defiantly, especially as you missed my birthday celebrations. :cheers:

if you need any help with the TV company i'm always available :D so are the 'Fletcherette's' :waycool:

Minnie M
24th-April-2007, 05:52 PM
Okay, so my first post since joining this forum and I suppose I have to answer this post as I have a bit of, shall we say, inside knowledge ............

Welcome Seamus .......... good post and so true :yeah:

Looking forward to 'hearing' lots more from you :clap: :respect:

MartinHarper
24th-April-2007, 06:08 PM
The Lindy scene here has a decent-sized student contingent, with many events hosted by university groups on university property. It definitely results in a different atmosphere. Higher energy, certainly. Probably more extroverted. Still a diverse mix of people.
I'd bet that many of the students aged 20-25 will become star quality dancers when they are 30-35, if they stick with it. One of the nice things about hooking people early is that they have the opportunity to become so much better than those of us who come to the hobby late.

The Librarian
24th-April-2007, 06:53 PM
give me a young man and a firm bum to grope any time :wink:

:rofl:


Well you groped mine during the DWAS competition at Chill Fletch, and you weren't even dancing with me! Was it my lycra-clad legs or your :devil: outfit that did it?:wink:

And does that mean I still qualify as being 'young' (at 31)?


This seems as good a place as any to make my debut post, so here goes.:innocent:

I started dancing at 25, and was often one of the youngest at any number of venues down here on the south coast. I would have loved to have seen more, but it was hard to persuade friends of a similar age to take it up, perhaps because the majority of other dancers were at least a generation older. But to me, that was irrelevant, I went for the dancing, and it was my friends' loss, because there are lots of great people of every age out there, and I'm meeting more by the week.

It could be a local thing, because I have been to other venues in larger towns and cities, and there definitely seemed to be a better mix of ages, with noticeable groups of young people. And if I could ever get friends to weekenders, they would see that there are loads out there.

But perhaps money is a big influence. With average entry fees creeping up towards £10, and more venues running each week, and more weekenders throughout the year, it might dilute the mix of people attending, especially at the younger/poorer end of the spectrum.

I thought the title of this thread was ironic though, because I was getting the impression that Ceroc was actively targeting the younger generation, especially when you look at the current crop of teaching talent - everyone seems to be 21 these days.

I feel decidely old after posting this.:tears:

Roger (31)

Double Trouble
24th-April-2007, 06:55 PM
One of the nice things about hooking people early is that they have the opportunity to become so much better than those of us who come to the hobby late.

Honestly Martin, you make it sound like you are some old coffin dodging fart with one foot in the grave. You are in your 20's for goodness sake's, get over yourself.:rolleyes:

MartinHarper
24th-April-2007, 06:58 PM
Honestly Martin, you make it sound like you are some old coffin dodging fart with one foot in the grave. You are in your 20's for goodness sake's, get over yourself.:rolleyes:

Well it's all relative, isn't it?

Double Trouble
24th-April-2007, 08:44 PM
Well it's all relative, isn't it?

Only if you are addressing a bunch of 5 year olds. Oh...hang on...I see your point.:wink:


Anyway, shut it Harper...you are making the rest of us feel old.:sad: :tears:

ducasi
25th-April-2007, 02:29 PM
I've only been dancing for a couple of years, so I can't say what the trend is. I do notice a lack of young people at certain venues though...

I figure though that with Ceroc now being 25, we're beginning to see second generation dancers coming in at the bottom. These young folks will help to keep MJ young and alive, and will bring in more people of a similar age.

So, no, I don't think that Ceroc is for old people, and I don't think we'll see the average age rise over the next decade.

That said, from a marketing point of view, I think classes and freestyles aimed at the 18-25 market would be valuable to attract more young people into the MJ world.

stewart38
25th-April-2007, 02:36 PM
So, no, I don't think that Ceroc is for old people, and I don't think we'll see the average age rise over the next decade.




why not where do the 'old people' go ?

ducasi
25th-April-2007, 02:41 PM
why not where do the 'old people' go ?
Um... They die? :(

Seriously, I think there's a pretty balanced "bell curve" of ages doing MJ across the UK. And as we get older, some at the top will leave, and some new folks at the bottom will come in to balance things out again.

fletch
25th-April-2007, 02:45 PM
Well you groped mine during the DWAS competition at Chill Fletch, and you weren't even dancing with me! Was it my lycra-clad legs or your :devil: outfit that did it?:wink:





just trying to knobble the competition :grin:


why not where do the 'old people' go ?

well on Friday i'm going to Utoipa Evasham ..........

:rofl:

lindyloo
30th-April-2007, 01:46 PM
Ceroc was run by a lot of old fuddyduddys who don't know what the younger set want.

Is Ceroc becoming old ?


Just for the record the majority of staff at the Ceroc HQ are under 30 (and Bradders still acts under 30!) and Alex who works for Ceroc full time now is 21 (most of us won't remember that far back!:whistle: )

Andy McGregor
30th-April-2007, 01:54 PM
Just for the record the majority of staff at the Ceroc HQ are under 30 (and Bradders still acts under 30!) and Alex who works for Ceroc full time now is 21 (most of us won't remember that far back!:whistle: )The last time I looked Ceroc was being run by Mike Ellard - we all know he has a painting in the loft that does his ageing - however, the version we see is still over 30.

We all know there is such a thing as the "arrogance of youth". But that doesn't mean that all arrogant people are young :whistle:

Lee Bartholomew
30th-April-2007, 05:29 PM
Lets ignore ceroc and talk about the bigger MJ scene for a sec.

Yes it is for old people but for young people too.

Unfortunatly most MJ teachers and event organisers can not see the last 20 years and people under 30 seem invisible.

MJ will die a death unless it is revolutionised.

Had a talk with Minnie about it at the weekend. Was talking about the new generation stuff that does seem to be going on. Lot's of young talent and a compleatly different way of dancing is coming through.

No one can dispute the WCS influance that is starting to take over. Nor can anyone dispute that when a young person walks in to a venue, they are more likely to be inspired by modern music and seeing Jamie dance than listing to some old obscure swing song and seeing Nigel Anderson.

The new gen thing isn't exclusive to age either. It is imaterial. more of a way of dancing and a mind set of playing games on the floor, enjoying the music in a different way and dancing with a different passion.

fletch
30th-April-2007, 05:46 PM
they are more likely to be inspired by modern music and seeing Jamie dance

The new gen thing isn't exclusive to age either. It is imaterial. more of a way of dancing and a mind set of playing games on the floor, enjoying the music in a different way and dancing with a different passion.


Jamie is an insperation :worthy:

My Joe modles himself on him :rolleyes:

Phew! i'm glade its all about mind set and not just age :eek: i'm OK then :wink:

:na:

Andy McGregor
30th-April-2007, 05:49 PM
Nor can anyone dispute that when a young person walks in to a venue, they are more likely to be inspired by modern music and seeing Jamie dance than listing to some old obscure swing song and seeing Nigel Anderson.Nigel tells me that he is very handsome and that women of all ages find him attractive :confused:

Joking aside, Nigel's last girlfriend was 21 years old, fabulously attractive and a lovely person too. What she saw in Nigel was a mystery to many of us - although she did confide in me that she was in a holding pattern with Nigel while she waited for me to become available :whistle:

On the subject of music. Good music is good music, no matter when it was composed or performed. However, new music has a certain attraction, just because it is new. Looking at our own classes, we have a good number of younger people in their teen and twenties. A few weeks ago we had a guest DJ who didn't play many up to date tracks. I got complaints from these younger people that the music was really old, even the "modern" stuff was very last year! I made a CD of the current chart hits for our guest DJ to use on his next visit. He didn't use the tracks arguing "there's hardly any young people here", he didn't seem at all bothered by my answer "that's because they knew you were coming and stayed away" - some of them had arrived at the venue, seen who was on the decks and stayed in the foyer chatting with their mates rather than come in :tears:

So, who is the silly one? This guy for sticking to his guns, or me for paying him to put off our customers? The difficult thing is that our older dancers love this DJs music. What would you do?

Twirly
30th-April-2007, 05:53 PM
So, who is the silly one? This guy for sticking to his guns, or me for paying him to put off our customers? The difficult thing is that our older dancers love this DJs music. What would you do?

Get him to play a mix - you never know, even some of the old fogies might get to like the modern music!

Andy McGregor
30th-April-2007, 05:56 PM
Lets ignore ceroc :yeah:



The new gen thing isn't exclusive to age either. It is immaterial: more of a way of dancing and a mind set of playing games on the floor, enjoying the music in a different way and dancing with a different passion.As one of the most grown-up, mature and sophisticated people on the dance floor I can say that I am a living example of the truth of this. I'm 50 years old, but act much older. You would never catch me playing with immature dancers or even enjoying that modern pop music, it's far too loud :devil:

And don't get me started on the youth of today. Bring back national service :wink:

Lee Bartholomew
30th-April-2007, 05:57 PM
So, who is the silly one? This guy for sticking to his guns, or me for paying him to put off our customers? The difficult thing is that our older dancers love this DJs music. What would you do?

Well thats just it what do you do?

Your right. Good music is good music no matter when it is from. Nina Simone is just as fresh now as it was then.

DJ's quite often seem to go for "middle ground" ie that Bongo song, Hero, Spanish Guitar, Stuck on you, Lola, etc etc. One DJ local to me wont play anything "under 1 year old because people won't know it"!!!!!!!

He has youngsters turn up to his class but they never stay for a second week. I have observed this and if he retained the younger people, then he would have a very healthy class with a very healthy age balance. Instaed it is attended by 20 sixty somethings.

One song can make all the difference in a DJ's set.

Jason played "dancing shoes" by the Artic Monkeys on sat morning at Camber. Fantastic song. Got all the youngsters up. A few of the older lot that were with me had never heard the song before and loved it to as it really wants to make you get on the floor and dance. More of that is needed for the new gen to develop and less the stuff that was played during the s**t parade 20 - 1 during the day.

Lee Bartholomew
30th-April-2007, 05:59 PM
:yeah:


As one of the most grown-up, mature and sophisticated people on the dance floor I can say that I am a living example of the truth of this. I'm 50 years old, but act much older. You would never catch me playing with immature dancers or even enjoying that modern pop music, it's far too loud :devil:

And don't get me started on the youth of today. Bring back national service :wink:


Lol andy, After that double trouble dance with Jamie and your hatred of Circle step back and non slotted ness you are on your way to being a new gen dancer. :wink:

Andy McGregor
30th-April-2007, 06:02 PM
Get him to play a mix - you never know, even some of the old fogies might get to like the modern music!I don't get complaints about modern music from the "old fogies". They seem to like a mix of ancient and modern. It's the fact that some DJs can not keep up to date with the current charts and think that 6 months or a year old is still current pop. Some pop songs are here today and gone tomorrow while other tracks become a timeless classics, for example, Build Me Up Buttercup: on the other hand, "Call on Me" is a prime example of pop that's past its sell-by date. Speaking personally, I spend about 4-8 hours a month listening to current chart music and looking for tracks that are MJable. IMHO, any MJDJ that ignores the charts will soon find himself looking out over a room of old fogies :tears:

Andy McGregor
30th-April-2007, 06:11 PM
Jason played "dancing shoes" by the Artic Monkeys on sat morning at Camber. Fantastic song. Got all the youngsters up. A few of the older lot that were with me had never heard the song before and loved it to as it really wants to make you get on the floor and dance. I've just had a listen to this track. Maybe I'm getting old, but it doesn't sound right for MJ. The intro lasts 40 seconds and it's about 150bpm. I suppose the good thing about it is that, at 2 mins 21 seconds, it doesn't last long :whistle:

Lee Bartholomew
30th-April-2007, 06:13 PM
I've just had a listen to this track. Maybe I'm getting old, but it doesn't sound right for MJ. The intro lasts 40 seconds and it's about 150bpm. I suppose the good thing about it is that, at 2 mins 21 seconds, it doesn't last long :whistle:


Yeah your getting old.

Andy McGregor
30th-April-2007, 06:19 PM
Lol andy, After that double trouble dance with Jamie and your hatred of Circle step back and non slotted ness you are on your way to being a new gen dancer. :wink::flower:

That was a silly dance but a great laugh. I think the highlight was woodface holding Jamie upside down while Jamie had his head through my legs and did a bong drum impression with my buttocks :sick:

IMHO there is no new generation of MJ. There is always a new generation of MJers coming through though. What I think woodface is seeing is the difference between MJ being done properly and MJ being done by people who have been badly served by their teachers. Some people have teachers who can not dance properly themselves, you can almost forgive those teachers when you compare them to the teachers who can dance, teach from the stage and then ignore how people actually dance during and after the lesson. Those are the teachers who could easily be replaced by a webcast from the Ceroc MotherShip :devil:

JiveLad
30th-April-2007, 06:28 PM
I've just had a listen to this track. Maybe I'm getting old, but it doesn't sound right for MJ. The intro lasts 40 seconds and it's about 150bpm. I suppose the good thing about it is that, at 2 mins 21 seconds, it doesn't last long :whistle:

It was played at Chill on Sunday night as I remember. It's ok-ish not brilliant. It does 'freshen' things up a bit.

I concur with Woodchip on his list of the old Ceroc cliches (as I refer to them).

The only one I would always have is Brown-eyed Girl.

Aside from that, a mix of 10 'cliches' per night is plenty: bring on the new and the rare. Did anyone play 'Young Folks' Peter, Bjorn and John) last year?

Baruch
1st-May-2007, 11:56 AM
IMHO, any MJDJ that ignores the charts will soon find himself looking out over a room of old fogies :tears:
Indeed. It's interesting to note who the regular dancers are at different venues and relate that to what the regular DJ generally plays. It seems to me that the younger dancers tend to go for DJs who play a good mix including up-to-date stuff.

I guess I've been spoiled, because Mark Wilson (our resident teacher/DJ in Cardiff) is usually pretty much bang up to date. He usually plays a good mix of old and new music, including the more recent stuff.

Mean Jean
1st-May-2007, 09:30 PM
. Nor can anyone dispute that when a young person walks in to a venue, they are more likely to be inspired by modern music and seeing Jamie dance than listing to some old obscure swing song and seeing Nigel Anderson.

Not sure why you think this. I sat mezmerised watching Nigel dance in the Blues room on Saturday night and when I plucked up the courage to ask him for a dance on Sunday he was really kind and made me feel like Ginger Rogers and not the clumsy oaf that I normal feel when I dance with good dancers. Although Jamie looked like a fabulous dancer he didn't come across as being as approachable and I don't think I would have had the courage to ask him for a dance in th esame way.

dave the scaffolder
1st-May-2007, 09:34 PM
Not sure why you think this. I sat mezmerised watching Nigel dance in the Blues room on Saturday night and when I plucked up the courage to ask him for a dance on Sunday he was really kind and made me feel like Ginger Rogers and not the clumsy oaf that I normal feel when I dance with good dancers. Although Jamie looked like a fabulous dancer he didn't come across as being as approachable and I don't think I would have had the courage to ask him for a dance in th esame way.
You is so wrong young Jamie is one of the most approachable people on the circuit.

Screw your courage to the sticking post and ask anyone to dance. XXX XXX:love:

Minnie M
1st-May-2007, 09:49 PM
.............../snip/.....Unfortunatly most MJ teachers and event organisers can not see the last 20 years and people under 30 seem invisible.

MJ will die a death unless it is revolutionised.

Had a talk with Minnie about it at the weekend. Was talking about the new generation stuff that does seem to be going on. Lot's of young talent and a compleatly different way of dancing is coming through.

No one can dispute the WCS influance that is starting to take over. Nor can anyone dispute that when a young person walks in to a venue, they are more likely to be inspired by modern music and seeing Jamie dance than listing to some old obscure swing song and seeing Nigel Anderson.

The new gen thing isn't exclusive to age either. It is imaterial. more of a way of dancing and a mind set of playing games on the floor, enjoying the music in a different way and dancing with a different passion.

hmmm....

New, fresh and modern MJ - been thinking about this one, IMO it is all the music :whistle:

However ..........

Shame Dan Slape wasn't teaching at Camber last weekend, he is young and his style of MJ it is very fresh, energetic and leans towards 'hip hop'

I have never seen Marc Forster teach standard MJ, but his style of dancing is also very different

NIgel is one of the best leads on the dance scene (note I didn't say MJ scene) he is a bit like a Heinz 57 of the dance world and is wonderful to dance with, and he makes every dance fit the music and his partner.

Jamie is a lovely dancer, no doubt about that, and if he is still on our dance scene in 10 years time I am sure if will be as versatile as Nigel :respect: but you really can't compare the two.

Shame you never met Ben Borengo

To summerise on a possible new & young approach
IMHO the teaching of modern jive should still be the basic moves etc., possibly with a hip hop style, however, the music should be taken from the current charts as much as possible.

Mean Jean
1st-May-2007, 09:53 PM
Good advice, but it's not so easy to ask people to dance especially when you see so many other fabulous dancers on the floor.

What made it easy with Nigel was that I watched him be asked to dance by much worse dancers than me, he never turned them down and even looked as if he was enjoying it when it couldn't have been very entertaining for him when he's so good.

I will however take your advice and ask Jamie if I see him at another event.

fletch
1st-May-2007, 10:02 PM
Not sure why you think this. I sat mezmerised watching Nigel dance in the Blues room on Saturday night and when I plucked up the courage to ask him for a dance on Sunday he was really kind and made me feel like Ginger Rogers and not the clumsy oaf that I normal feel when I dance with good dancers. Although Jamie looked like a fabulous dancer he didn't come across as being as approachable and I don't think I would have had the courage to ask him for a dance in th esame way.

this is such a shame :hug: for Jamie, he's young atractive and full of fun :clap: but so, so, approachable, I was dancing next to him in the blues room at chill, I looked over and some older chap proberbly about late 60's had him in a comb, staring into is eye's,:D he will dance with anyone and try and give them a fab dance,:respect: I have so much respect for him he might be 'Hot tottie' but he aint 'Hot Shot'ie' :worthy:


ask him he .....like me.....only bites when there is a full moon :whistle:

Minnie M
1st-May-2007, 10:05 PM
....What made it easy with Nigel was that I watched him be asked to dance by much worse dancers than me, he never turned them down and even looked as if he was enjoying it when it couldn't have been very entertaining for him when he's so good....

Nigel is very approachable and he makes any and every follower (male or female) feel like he is enjoying the dance as much as you are, and he always gives a great dance - that is why he is so good - but most of that comes from experience. (BTW because of this it is also difficult to get a dance :sad: )



....I will however take your advice and ask Jamie if I see him at another event.

Do ask him, he is a lovely dancer and he wont refuse you - but I do understand what you mean as even with my many years of dancing, I still find it hard to ask some men for dances, especially the ones in great demand.

jivecat
1st-May-2007, 10:37 PM
........ even with my many years of dancing, I still find it hard to ask some men for dances, especially the ones in great demand.

:yeah: But I have found that, when I've plucked up my courage, they have certainly lived up to their reputation.

Lee Bartholomew
2nd-May-2007, 11:57 AM
Not sure why you think this. I sat mezmerised watching Nigel dance in the Blues room on Saturday night and when I plucked up the courage to ask him for a dance on Sunday he was really kind and made me feel like Ginger Rogers and not the clumsy oaf that I normal feel when I dance with good dancers. Although Jamie looked like a fabulous dancer he didn't come across as being as approachable and I don't think I would have had the courage to ask him for a dance in th esame way.


Because young people are young and like young stuff in general. There are really not as many young people being as impressed by the Shim Sham as there are by a good funky fresh dancer. Sure there might be one or two but in general, not that many.

I didn't ask Nigel for a dance. Was going to but he really didn't look impressed when me and Jamie danced together. His greatness must be within the dance itself and not from a spectators view point. Or maybe I just look for different things in a dancer.

Jamie will always accept a dance but alot of people fear asking him. I used to feel like that when I first started MJ'ing about asking teachers/demos for a dance. Soon got over it and realised there is nothing to worry about as a majority of them are nowhere near as good as I would have thought them to be. :wink:

Raul
2nd-May-2007, 01:41 PM
I figure though that with Ceroc now being 25


Yes they celebrated their 25th at Chill.

Let me see - Newbies retention level very low; average age at start of Ceroc say 20 = average age now, about 40!

At the next anniversary the average age will be 55, then 70

:really:
.

jivecat
2nd-May-2007, 04:21 PM
Jamie will always accept a dance but alot of people fear asking him. I used to feel like that when I first started MJ'ing about asking teachers/demos for a dance. Soon got over it and realised there is nothing to worry about as a majority of them are nowhere near as good as I would have thought them to be. :wink:

I wasn't talking about teachers and demos in general - I was talking about the MJ superstars that have a queue of women halfway round the room waiting to dance with them, and a crowd of onlookers as well. There's only a handful of those.

Zara
10th-May-2007, 12:30 PM
I started dancing when I was 14 and everyone I danced with was much older in comparison. This fortunately didnt put me off, but it has detered my friends in the past.
Age has no relevance in modern jive, my enjoyment of a dance is based on so many other factors. Modern Jive has something to offer every age range.
IMO To appeal to the younger generation and to therefore keep MJ alive, organisations need to work on their promotion . DJ's also need to keep an eye on the charts, just a handful of up to date tracks an evening would encouage 18-30yr olds to attend.

Zara xxxxxxx:D

Your wife
14th-May-2007, 11:53 AM
Most of the people that are a bit older than them (approx 25-35) seem to be doing the having and bringing up children thing and that occupies most of their time.

After that age people find themselves with more free time either due to their child rearing responsibilies decreasing or they have seperated from their partner and it is a convenient way of getting out and meeting the opposite sex without it looking too obvious.



Damn it! At 31 I knew I was supposed to be doing something other than travelling, dancing and generally having a good time - I just didnt realise I was supposed to be speed rearing a child to adulthood in ten years, then ditching my partner and taking up ceroc to covertly look for another one!:whistle:

batnurse
6th-February-2008, 02:58 PM
I don't believe it, probably my first serious question on this forum...

and you make me blush :blush:

I was going to say "a dance with me" :rofl:

ChrisB
6th-February-2008, 05:09 PM
I'm 28 and MJ is the first form of dance I've tried. I remember when choosing between dance styles being mildly interested in the age demographic (but not nearly as much as other things), such that I'd prefer a "younger dance" like this or Salsa. Ceroc was certainly advertised as if it was a dance for the younger generation and there was a poll on this forum that made out it was pretty much an even spread all the way from 20-50 which was great. My first nights have been slightly older than I anticipated but it hasn't bothered me, and theres certainly been a share of younger people. Maybe the internet demographic skewed the results?! Would anyone say that Salsa or some other styles are generally younger?

martingold
6th-February-2008, 05:34 PM
I supose the complete answer to that is YES and its for young people as well.
The regular venue i go to has a complete mix 16 to 80

Lee Bartholomew
6th-February-2008, 05:43 PM
Along the south Coast from Brighton through to Hastings apart from Ceroc Brighton which has a majority of younger dancers, all the venues are populated mainly by 60 + year olds.

There are a few very talented younger dancers in Brighton (vegtable, Zara etc) and none in Eastbourne, Bexhill, Hastings. The Teacher in Hastings is 70 this year !!.

I am aiming this year to try several projects to try and introduce younger people to dancing. Personally I think the way to do it is younger teachers and failing that, younger music. More Hip Hop, RnB etc.

One of the first things I am doing is running a Night Club 2 Step workshop and advertsing it at the local college.

rubyred
6th-February-2008, 06:10 PM
Would anyone say that Salsa or some other styles are generally younger?

Don't know what is classified as younger really, I am still 18 in my head although I have to confess ,and I am sure it will come as a shock to some that I am not.:D

I think that there is a lot of kudos with Salsa amongst the younger dancers, my experience of most of the Salsa clubs I have gone to around the Northwest, including Manchester city centre and outskirts is one where there are generally more dancers who would be ticking the 20 - 30 box. However the big club in Manchester is primarily a night club, and treated by the majority as such, rather than a specific dance venue.When I went last it became very obvious that I couldn't have the same connection with a dancer that I could in a MJ venue , because it would have been misconstrued and I was just going to have a dance.

In my experience AT, Ballroom and Latin seem to attract a mix that tend in the majority to be a bit older. At the Ballroom and Latin class that I go to there is a good mix of ages. One lady that goes to this venue in Sale Manchester is in her 80s and got picked to go into the Strictly Ballroom house the year I think Jamie Mcloughlin was in it. She had to leave because her partner who was in his 30s could not keep up with the demands that the dancing made on him. What a great lady she has been dancing all her life and is a fit as a flea with a great figure.:respect:

In my book dancing keeps you young and age is only a number.:flower:

John S
6th-February-2008, 07:26 PM
In my book dancing keeps you young and age is only a number.
Oh, I wish ..............:sad:

dep
6th-February-2008, 09:54 PM
Oh, I wish ..............:sad:to still be fit enough to Jive/dance into my seventies, provided the ladies will still partner me.

John S
7th-February-2008, 02:57 AM
Oh, I wish ..............:sad:


to still be fit enough to Jive/dance into my seventies, provided the ladies will still partner me.

Oi - I'm not in my seventies (yet)

~*~Saligal~*~
7th-February-2008, 04:20 AM
I guess I'd like to know how old "old" is...

Andy McGregor
7th-February-2008, 09:31 AM
I guess I'd like to know how old "old" is...It's no age, it's relative, usually 15 years older than you are.

~*~Saligal~*~
8th-February-2008, 01:21 AM
It's no age, it's relative, usually 15 years older than you are.
Thanks - I checked TA's first post, and as he says he's in his 40's then I'm presuming he's calling that "old".

dep
8th-February-2008, 10:42 AM
Thanks - I checked TA's first post, and as he says he's in his 40's then I'm presuming he's calling that "old".if that's old then I'm ancient.

djtrev
8th-February-2008, 11:51 AM
Age is no barrier when it comes to MJ.But now that there is a big swing towards Blues/WCS and more expressive interpretation of music it does pose a problem to me.Much as I love the current trend of Blues/WCS,as a 66 year old,I would feel uncomfortable for my partner as well as myself,dancing with anybody that is significantly younger than me for fear that the dance would be viewed by some,and they will,as anything but sleaze.That is of course assuming that any young lady would be comfortable in that situation in the first place.

stewart38
8th-February-2008, 11:58 AM
Yes they celebrated their 25th at Chill.

Let me see - Newbies retention level very low; average age at start of Ceroc say 20 = average age now, about 40!

At the next anniversary the average age will be 55, then 70

:really:
.


I started ceroc when i was 29 and im sure the average age then was around 29

Im now 38 ok 42 for one more day :sad: and im sure the average age is around 40

I would suggest the average has gone up about 10yrs

Thats based on a few venues/weekenders

Im sure it will go up further over the next 10yrs probably to cira 45 ?

Whitebeard
9th-February-2008, 03:18 AM
Age is no barrier when it comes to MJ.

Sad to say not quite true. Infirmities will take over eventually :-(


But now that there is a big swing towards Blues/WCS and more expressive interpretation of music it does pose a problem to me. Much as I love the current trend of Blues/WCS, as a 66 year old, I would feel uncomfortable for my partner as well as myself, dancing with anybody that is significantly younger than me for fear that the dance would be viewed by some,and they will, as anything but sleaze. That is of course assuming that any young lady would be comfortable in that situation in the first place.

Yes, as one with even more seniority, this is an issue of which I am all too well aware; even in the standard Ceroc experience. But most of this I am sure is in my mind; in reality I struggle to recall any signs or instances of ageism. I guess I'm part of the scene at my local classes and, whilst I mostly choose to dance with 50+ year olds (even they, significantly younger than me I have to say !!), a number of younger ladies seem quite happy to dance and request. I am grateful and humbled.

The trend toward slower tempos and the subtleties and sensualities of blues and wcs is only just beginning to impact out here in the limbo between the west country and the south midlands. A local Lindy outfit brought in a Nigel and Nina blues workshop a year or two ago, and now Strictly Ceroc introduces a coupl'a Sunday WCS workshops and a following Tea Dance. Not much to work on, but I do hope it's a trend that will continue.

However, as you intimate, present times are a real invitation and challenge to we oldsters as the music, I hope, moves in our direction. At its behest we must forget the years and dance and connect with intent and conviction so that, as we dance, leader and follower alike, reality may be subsumed and we can be whatever we may imagine.

Baruch
15th-February-2008, 11:54 AM
One of the most active dancers in South Wales is in his seventies, and he's rarely off the floor all night. He'll dance with anyone of any age, and he really is an inspiration. If I'm as active as that if and when I reach his age I'll be happy!

dep
15th-February-2008, 12:15 PM
One of the most active dancers in South Wales is in his seventies, and he's rarely off the floor all night. He'll dance with anyone of any age, and he really is an inspiration. If I'm as active as that if and when I reach his age I'll be happy!I hope to be able to as well.

djtrev
15th-February-2008, 03:19 PM
One of the most active dancers in South Wales is in his seventies, and he's rarely off the floor all night. He'll dance with anyone of any age, and he really is an inspiration. If I'm as active as that if and when I reach his age I'll be happy!

That is all very well if you are talking mainstream MJ,but with regard to my earlier post:-

Age is no barrier when it comes to MJ.But now that there is a big swing towards Blues/WCS and more expressive interpretation of music it does pose a problem to me.Much as I love the current trend of Blues/WCS,as a 66 year old,I would feel uncomfortable for my partner as well as myself,dancing with anybody that is significantly younger than me for fear that the dance would be viewed by some,and they will,as anything but sleaze.That is of course assuming that any young lady would be comfortable in that situation in the first place.

I would imagine that the guy in question would find it somewhat difficult to express himself and feel comfortable with that,bearing in mind his age alone,given the way that dance has progressed to a more UCP and personal performance almost.
By all means tell me if I am talking out of my a**e but lets assume he is a competant dancer and was well into the blues scene.If he were to ask MiniMac(she is the only youngster I could think of) to dance a slow blues,do you think either of them would feel comfortable or would it not happen anyway.

Baruch
15th-February-2008, 03:24 PM
I would imagine that the guy in question would find it somewhat difficult to express himself and feel comfortable with that,bearing in mind his age alone,given the way that dance has progressed to a more UCP and personal performance almost.
The beauty of MJ is that it is adaptable to a range of styles. Yes, UCP may be increasingly popular, but MJ doesn't have to be UCP. There are plenty of other ways to express yourself and still have fun. For the gentleman in question (and he is a real gentleman, a lovely bloke) your question doesn't even arise, as he dances how he wants to and not according to the latest trend.

djtrev
15th-February-2008, 04:04 PM
The beauty of MJ is that it is adaptable to a range of styles. Yes, UCP may be increasingly popular, but MJ doesn't have to be UCP. There are plenty of other ways to express yourself and still have fun. For the gentleman in question (and he is a real gentleman, a lovely bloke) your question doesn't even arise, as he dances how he wants to and not according to the latest trend.

I am not sure whether you have got the point of my post.
I agree with what you say that MJ doesnt have to be UCP and I am sure he is a very nice guy and is comforable with how and who he dances with.

Blues and for that matter WCS are not a trend, it is the way dance is progressing.

I have not been dancing and DJing for as long as some of the members on this forum but I have noticed,as far as I am concerned and most certainly as a DJ, that when I started out MJ,or so it seemed to me, was very much straight and narrow.Now in order to keep up with the way dance is progressing I have to buy not just mainstream pop music(I know that is not quite the expression to use but I think you get my drift) but blues,jazz,soul,RnB,latin.In fact some of the music one has to play these days I would never have dreamed of buying never mind playing.

Anyway back to the original point of my post.If you dont want your man in my little scenario lets put me in there instead.Lets assume that I am a competant MJ dancer who has embraced the move towards blues/WCS.I feel sure that I/MiniMac would feel uncomfortable for each other to interpret the music fully as we would like to purely because of the age difference.It just would not look right.
Given this particular scenario I think that perhaps there are times when I feel that Ceroc(MJ) is not for old people.

dep
15th-February-2008, 05:22 PM
keeping in mind I'm middle aged rather than old I can see that in a few years I will probably dance with fewer young dancers (teens and early twenties).

But, if they ask, I certainly will not turn them away.

At the moment I am completely comfortable dancing with any and every age group.

The only time I have noticed a bit of "pulling back" is with very new beginners (first to third nighters) and then I will give them a bit more space for the remainder of the dance. The Hallelujah seems to be my problem one.

As far as I know no-one has ever complained about which age group I dance with and yes, there have been 14year olds and one eleven year old in there.
Oops, don't alert the Sleaze lot to what has been posted.

David Bailey
15th-February-2008, 05:42 PM
Blues and for that matter WCS are not a trend, it is the way dance is progressing.
I think it's too early to say that - you could have said exactly the same about Jango in 2005, or salsa in 2002.

Baruch
15th-February-2008, 07:38 PM
Blues and for that matter WCS are not a trend, it is the way dance is progressing.
I disagree. It's certainly one way the dance is progressing, but not the only way. As DJ said, it's the latest in a series of "ways the dance is progressing". One look at the average MJ night will show you that most of the dancing isn't bluesy or UCP.

djtrev
15th-February-2008, 10:51 PM
I disagree. It's certainly one way the dance is progressing, but not the only way. As DJ said, it's the latest in a series of "ways the dance is progressing". One look at the average MJ night will show you that most of the dancing isn't bluesy or UCP.

Sorry I misunderstood you.
I only used the blues/WCS connection because it appears to me that beside MJ,blues and WCS are discussed more on this forum than the others.

dep
21st-February-2008, 12:42 PM
Having declared that I am comfortable dancing with all age groups, I took the opportunity of asking my 16year old partner if she was comfortable dancing with us oldies, "no problem" came the reply.
So much for that alleged Sleaze Factor of mine creeping to the surface.