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Lee Bartholomew
12th-April-2007, 02:36 PM
Anyone else using Vista yet?

Just got a machine for work to test the new os on for compatability etc.


Got to say, I had alot of reservations about windows Vista after hearing some horror stories about it and incompatability but everything I have put on it from custom software to office (97-2003 versions) runs fine.

Has yet to crash and looks really really nice (esp with Aero on). It needs a fair spec machine to run but is sooo much quicker in the way it works, its worth it.

You can tell memory and task management have improved you can use it straight from load rather than waiting for services to start etc.

straycat
12th-April-2007, 04:08 PM
Our experience is so far limited, but...
Our brand-new Vista machine crashed on startup on its first boot attempt.
Next try was OK(ish) - but it keeps pausing to think about things, and its memory footprint is scarily large. It behaves a lot better if you turn Aero off though, so there is some hope. A colleage is currently scouring the machine of everything that isn't needed, and removing it all - we'll see how it runs after that.

When it's not having to think about things, it seems faster and slicker than my XP machine, which is good. Certainly it looks nice - there's quite a Mac-inspired feel to the appearance, which can't be a bad thing.

Personally, I think I'll stick to XP (at least until my boss gets me a much higher-spec machine. Or preferrably a Mac)
At home, not a chance. My PC is over five years old, so I don't rate its chances of even installing Vista, let alone running it.

Lee Bartholomew
12th-April-2007, 04:56 PM
lol, can tell your a mac man.:na:

Tomorrow i'll start rolling out across all our machines. :D

straycat
12th-April-2007, 05:14 PM
lol, can tell your a mac man.:na:

And I thought I'd hidden it so well...



Tomorrow i'll start rolling out across all our machines. :D
Keep us updated - I'd be interested to know how it goes.

Wuzzle
12th-April-2007, 05:18 PM
Well I got vista at work. Oh dear.... I should be like a bug maker or something. :rolleyes: When it crashes its very annoying. :mad: No blue screen but cant even make it to the task manager. And it crashed a lot at the start. :sad:

Doesnt like the network either :mad: so cant really print.

The mac site has it down to a T when it comes down to
annoying factor of Vista's new security feature.

Apple - Get a Mac - Watch The TV Ads (http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/)

Still waiting for Mr Jobs to release his spotty OS think that will be my next laptop I fancy a change. :D

Think they could of stayed off Vista a little longer just to get a few more kinks out of it. I'll probably upgrade but my machine is fairly new and that was my intention. :whistle:

Having had it work i am reconsidering if i should upgrade :what:

I wouldnt upgrade to this less i was maybe buying a new machine. 1 or more gig memory needed.


Our experience is so far limited, but...
Our brand-new Vista machine crashed on startup on its first boot attempt.
Next try was OK(ish) - but it keeps pausing to think about things, and its memory footprint is scarily large. It behaves a lot better if you turn Aero off though, so there is some hope. A colleage is currently scouring the machine of everything that isn't needed, and removing it all - we'll see how it runs after that.

When it's not having to think about things, it seems faster and slicker than my XP machine, which is good. Certainly it looks nice - there's quite a Mac-inspired feel to the appearance, which can't be a bad thing.

Personally, I think I'll stick to XP (at least until my boss gets me a much higher-spec machine. Or preferrably a Mac)
At home, not a chance. My PC is over five years old, so I don't rate its chances of even installing Vista, let alone running it.

Mr Darcy
12th-April-2007, 07:11 PM
Anyone else using Vista yet?

I've been running the 32bit version at home and 64bit version at work since December, both on Dell systems.

No problems, I love it. I'm doing development work using WPF/.net3, running aero on multiple high-res displays. All works fine.

When I have to use XP the explorer and file handling seems so old now, it's so much easier to navigate the filesystem with Vista.

I'm also using some USB keys for ReadyBoost (it caches .exe and .dll images on the lower access time flash memory to speed application loads/switches) and that's pretty good.

Only glitches seem to have been with suspend resume, but there have been less of those than I had with XP.

jiveoholic
12th-April-2007, 07:39 PM
I have just got a new Dell with Vista. All in all I think it is great and comes on and goes off much faster.

I have turned off the user account control because either I forgot to "run as administrator" various installations or, even doing that, they fell over.

I did like the networking, it "just worked" without running wizards.

Not sure about the new locations for music etc.

Found sharing files with the network impossible other than using the public areas. Perhaps I am not clever enough to use the full permissions thingy stuff.

The control panel has moved about a lot too.

Not much problem with incompatibility, just had to find all the right drivers.

I like the gadgets on the right hand side.

All in all, things seem more in the right place.

Lee Bartholomew
12th-April-2007, 08:40 PM
The gadgets are great. You been on the download more gadgets site yet? Loads of really good ones.

I was impressed when I joint the machine on to the domain, It correctly auto mapped drives !!!!!!

Shodan
13th-April-2007, 01:37 PM
I have Vista 64bit on my parents new computer at home. Its a quick computer, but Vista is jolly slow and for some reason is always crunching the hard disk even when nothing is loaded. :confused: (it has 1gb of dual channel memory in it and a SATA II HD)

Any ideas as to what it is that keeps grinding the HD? Its a fresh build of Vista on it.

The only thing I've found won't run on it are my parents old Windows Card Games. The old "Windows Entertainment Pack" card games. Worked fine all the way to Win XP but not on Vista 64bit as I assume they are 16-bit games.

Lee Bartholomew
13th-April-2007, 02:23 PM
No idea what the drive crunching is.

Running a 3ghz machine with 2gig mem and sata II raid HD's. Graphics card is only a Radion x600 but you cant have everything.

Found it to run quicker than XP.

The security when browsing is annoying though esp when downloading stuff.
"do you want to down load this file" YES
"down loading this file may hard your computer" CONTINUE
"where do you want to download this file?" DESKTOP
"This file is about to download, are you sure?" YES
"do you want to run this file" YES
"are you sure?" YES
"Running this file may harm your computer" YES

"file is corrupt"

Shodan
13th-April-2007, 04:09 PM
Oh yes, that annoying security thing. Every time I was installing and setting it up:

"Do you wish to run this?" YES, I just double clicked it moron
"Do you want this user profile to run this?" YES, see above

Twas annoying, but as its my folks machines and they are NOT Computer Savvy I thought I'd leave it all active. When I get Vista on my own pooter it'll be nicely trimmed and made to run quickly. :waycool:

RedFox
11th-December-2007, 03:46 PM
Didn't think it worth starting a new thread, but the following made me smile :grin:
YouTube - Vista Sucks! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNZVbIJ1Erk)

Barry Shnikov
25th-January-2008, 02:39 PM
I first installed Vista over an XP set up. It was the most appalling mess. Every folder was protected - I couldn't access some of my own sub-folders in My Documents! UAC popped up when I looked at the screen - I didn't even have to do anything more than think about pressing a key combination or clicking the mouse.

After a week, the only thing I could do was to throw out the whole thing, scrub the HD and reinstall fresh Vista from scratch. That worked.

Of course, I switched off Windows Update - thanks, Microsoft, but I prefer me to be the person who decides what fiddling is done with my set-up, and when. (I remember how furious I was when XP SP2 automatically made IE my default web-browser...) Then, just before Christmas, I thought that it might be time to let WU tart up the system. I checked what stuff was going to be installed and it looked OK.

Big mistake. Doing a simple thing like deleting a file could lock the computer up for hours - literally, hours. In the end I had to do a system restore.

Originally I had thought that Vista SP1 will sort out the few bugs that remained after I re-installed Vista back in August. Now I don't think I dare let it on the computer at all...

straycat
25th-January-2008, 02:48 PM
Originally I had thought that Vista SP1 will sort out the few bugs that remained after I re-installed Vista back in August. Now I don't think I dare let it on the computer at all...

Luckily, there does seem to be a pretty decent upgrade to Vista now which fixes a great many of the inherent problems. It's reviewed here. (http://dotnet.org.za/codingsanity/archive/2007/12/14/review-windows-xp.aspx)

Mr Darcy
25th-January-2008, 04:09 PM
Just to give a little balance to this thread..

I am still using Vista x64 at work, developing using VS2008/.net 3.5/WPF now and not having any problems with it. I install all the updates (but when I choose) and not had any problems there. I like the new explorer and find it easy to manipulate my files, xp just seems like hard work whenever I have to use it now.

At home I have the 32bit version on a quad core system, with the window fade effects turned off everything just snaps open near instantly, no real problems there either. Works great on my laptop too.

There seems a lot of negative press around Vista, which seems just like all the negative press there was for xp when it came out too (for which the upgrade back then was of course Win2000 or even Win98 :sick:).

batnurse
25th-January-2008, 05:57 PM
I have Vista on my new laptop at home, no choice in the matter as I was told I couldn't buy a new laptop with anything but. If I ever meet Bill Gates in person, I shall punch him on the nose :mad::na:

martingold
25th-January-2008, 06:12 PM
I have Vista on my new laptop at home, no choice in the matter as I was told I couldn't buy a new laptop with anything but. If I ever meet Bill Gates in person, I shall punch him on the nose :mad::na:
I thought mr gates' mob were doing free xp downgrades for people who didnt get on with vista
i use a lot of PLC programming software at work and as yet the japanese havent upgraded that to work on vista it was bad enough when we upgraded to xp
At the moment all works well with xp i am not gonna fix it cos its not broke

bigdjiver
26th-January-2008, 07:24 PM
Old IT rule :- New systems take longer, cost more, and do not work until they are obsolete.

Barry Shnikov
27th-January-2008, 07:00 PM
Luckily, there does seem to be a pretty decent upgrade to Vista now which fixes a great many of the inherent problems. It's reviewed here. (http://dotnet.org.za/codingsanity/archive/2007/12/14/review-windows-xp.aspx)

Ho ho!

Lee Bartholomew
28th-January-2008, 11:50 AM
Have been running it for aile now and only 1 crash. Seems to run a hell of alot quicker than Xp ever did.

I can understand how some people dont like it as it's differnent to xp (I only got my mum off win 98 and to XP a few months back because "she didn't like it'!) but it really is worth sticking with.

Alot of the backlash against it is purely because it is a MS product. They could release the most perfect os ever imaginable (I doubt it) and people would still moan.

straycat
28th-January-2008, 01:01 PM
Have been running it for aile now and only 1 crash. Seems to run a hell of alot quicker than Xp ever did.

I can understand how some people dont like it as it's differnent to xp (I only got my mum off win 98 and to XP a few months back because "she didn't like it'!) but it really is worth sticking with.

I don't mind many of the differences between Vista and XP. Very few of the cosmetic / UI changes make my life any worse, and a few are noticeable improvements - but that having been said, there's nothing in it that I miss when I switch back to XP (my ageing machine at home)

So what do I object to?
1) It is running slower for me than XP did. Despite the fact that I'm running it on a much faster, more modern machine with more RAM.
2) Miscellaneous annoyances. From the overly obtrusive security 'features', to the mind-bogglingly stupid and irritating procedure for shutting down / restarting when you have apps with unsaved data. There's loads of these, without enough corresponding improvements.
3) For such a long-awaited upgrade - I've yet to see a single improvement which makes it worth the upgrade price / hassle.

What MS simply don't seem to have done is to sit down and say 'How do we make this OS into a system that helps people to do what they want / need to with the minimum of hassle, and the maximum efficiency?'

I like Apple because they clearly do pose such questions. They don't always get it right in their solutions, but they're making the effort, and they take a lot of steps in the right direction.



Alot of the backlash against it is purely because it is a MS product. They could release the most perfect os ever imaginable (I doubt it) and people would still moan.

Wrong way around. I'm not that idiotic that I slam a product purely because I don't like the company that made it. But I'll happily slam the company for doing such a poor job on their products.

If MS were to release the most perfect OS ever imaginable (a job that I don't believe anyone has come close to as yet), I'd be jumping for joy - and I'd happily make the switch from Apple.

Lee Bartholomew
28th-January-2008, 01:05 PM
Just had my second crash :(. Caused by Facebook (which seems to crash others machines quite abit too)

straycat
28th-January-2008, 01:09 PM
Just had my second crash :(. Caused by Facebook (which seems to crash others machines quite abit too)

Which browser?

Lee Bartholomew
28th-January-2008, 01:31 PM
Which browser?

using IE at mo but is known to happen alot in firefox.

ducasi
28th-January-2008, 02:30 PM
using IE at mo but is known to happen alot in firefox.
Firefox can crash Vista more than IE? That's not good.

From what I've seen around the Internet, it's the people who are especially adept with computers who haven't had such a bad time with Vista. It's the folks who find it difficult to adapt, who have a problem.

Lee Bartholomew
28th-January-2008, 02:33 PM
[quote=ducasi;447662]Firefox can crash Vista more than IE? That's not good.

[quote]

I ment that it happens alot with Facebook crashing both Ie and Firefox.

Lee Bartholomew
28th-January-2008, 08:00 PM
Actually been thinking of trying Linux out. The thing that is putting me off at mo is the 2 tonnes of distros out there.

I want to run beryl which is like Vista cube which I am loving at the mo and would struggle without.

ducasi
28th-January-2008, 09:12 PM
Actually been thinking of trying Linux out. The thing that is putting me off at mo is the 2 tonnes of distros out there.

I want to run beryl which is like Vista cube which I am loving at the mo and would struggle without.
Well it sounds like you want to try Ubuntu (or Kubuntu) which ships with Compiz Fusion, a fusion of Compiz and Beryl.

As Linux distros go, Ubuntu is one of the best. (I'm more familiar with Kubuntu though, which uses KDE instead of Gnome.)

bigdjiver
28th-January-2008, 11:41 PM
Have been running it for aile now and only 1 crash. Seems to run a hell of alot quicker than Xp ever did...Is that with the same processor and amount of memory?

DavidB
29th-January-2008, 02:48 AM
18 months ago my laptop was completely trashed after installing too many beta versions of software. I had a major project to start, so decided to reinstall everything from scratch. I spent an evening finding and downloading the latest XP drivers - not always easy for a laptop because you never quite know what is in it.

But before I did the install, I thought I'd give the beta (at that time) of Vista a try. I wasn't expecting much, because the laptop was already over 2 years old, and wasn't exactly the top spec when I got it. Vista installed perfectly first time. It was the easiest operating system I'd ever installed. (I've done every Microsoft OS since MSDOS 6, and a couple of Unix installations. Nothing ever came close for ease of installation). It had all the drivers, found and connected to my network, configured the internet access. It just worked.

It seemed just as quick as XP for what I do (Visual Studio, SQL Server and complex spreadsheets) I kept the beta on there instead of XP, and installed the full version when it came out. The only change I have made since was to add more memory (to 2GB). I like the Aero graphics, but it was taking memory from SQL Server.

Since then I've installed it on my desktop - again it worked first time. I also used it to check everything on my server was ok after building it and before installing Windows Server 2003.

I wouldn't even think of installing anything else now. (The only exception would be if I was building a PC to play the latest games, such as Crysis.)

David

straycat
29th-January-2008, 02:52 PM
Here's why-I-sometimes-HATE-Vista example. Happened about an hour ago.

I'm doing some web development work and testing the site (very script-heavy) in Firefox. I have my development environment open (Eclipse), Photoshop and various other programs. All is going well, until suddenly the machine stops responding to mouse clicks (except Firefox, which responds in a limited way)

I try various methods for getting out of this - alt-tab to change programs (it works, but still nothing responds to mouse clicks) closing Firefox (doesn't close, but suddenly it's Eclipse that's the only thing responding to clicks) and various others - then give up, and hit the power button to restart (since the Start menu isn't responding)

So it tries to close the first program, and it doesn't respond and won't close. So I get the completely daft Shutdown screen showing up which tells me X is preventing shutdown, and giving me two options - shutdown or cancel. Keyboard shortcuts do not work. Mouse does not work. The only option now is to hold down the power button to power the thing off - NOT the ideal way to turn off any system, and generally a bad idea unless you've exhausted all other options.

As a one off, this wouldn't be too bad. But it's fairly typical of my Vista experience. And yes - I'm quite aware that problems like this are more usually attributable to 3rd party software - but there's nothing on the machine that I don't need, and I don't install extensions / 'fun toys' willy-nilly on it (a bad idea on any system)

As an aside, a friend at work just sent me this link (http://www.vlite.net/about.html)... a way of slimming down Vista and removing a lot of the bloat. I'm very much minded to try it.

Barry Shnikov
30th-January-2008, 06:25 PM
Here's why-I-sometimes-HATE-Vista example. Happened about an hour ago.{snip problem details}

I had something very similar, when everything just slowed down to a crawl, and I had to Restore the system to before I allowed Windows Update to do its thing. It really was so slow that the only thing I could do was force a hard restart.

The best that you can say about Vista is that it is an unstable platform. OK, some people have no problems with it; but since other people do then that is definitive.

I am not a developer, don't do programming, and have no MS qualifications. Nevertheless I have built my own computers and installed almost anything I wanted to since 1990. I once caught a virus which forced me to reinstall Win95 from scratch, but otherwise I've only had minor problems. There are a lot of reported Vista problems I've not encountered - I saw screenshots on Wired where Vista was estimating several centuries to copy a few hundred files from one directory to another - but the real problem is that you want and need to be able to rely on your OS. Perhaps years ago I should have bought a Mac, but I didn't, and now the costs of transferring to the Mac are just too prohibitive.

I like Vista, but there are niggles. Why, for example, can logging on to some web sites make Vista announce that it is turning off Aero? Why can't I get a patch from Canon so that Vista can display thumbnails of Canon RAW files on Vista 64 bit?

One wonders exactly what Microsoft were doing, in the 8 years or so since XP was first delivered. I suspect something went drastically wrong, they found themselves all the way up a creek with no option but to abandon everything and start again. This doesn't feel like an OS that has had 8 years of development put into it by the largest software deveoper on the planet.

And don't get me started on the ribbon in Office 2007!!!!!!!!

straycat
30th-January-2008, 06:40 PM
One wonders exactly what Microsoft were doing, in the 8 years or so since XP was first delivered. I suspect something went drastically wrong, they found themselves all the way up a creek with no option but to abandon everything and start again. This doesn't feel like an OS that has had 8 years of development put into it by the largest software deveoper on the planet.

I actually suspect that the problem MS had was that they didn't abandon everything and start again.

It happens, time and time again with large-scale software projects that they become more and more complex and bloated as time goes on, and as they are loaded with more and more features which were never envisaged when they were first designed. No matter how good that initial design was, there comes a point when you are constantly being stimmied by past design decisions and all the things that have been done to get around them... to me, this is where Vista appears to be at.

In this respect, Apple were in exactly the same position as Microsoft a few years back - they'd been working on Copeland - their latest, greatest OS, for years, and it was very much overdue... for exactly these reasons. Ultimately, they decided to scrap it, which was a very risky business decision, given how anticipated it was, and how much they'd invested in its development. But they started again from semi-scratch (not quite from scratch, as this time they used a different OS as a starting point...) and luckily for them, they pulled it off...

Missy D
2nd-February-2008, 05:49 PM
We hate Vista here and have had so many problems. I am going crazy looking at the blue circle and not getting onto the sites that I want to. Is there a way that I can remove Vista and put XP on laptop?

Clueless
2nd-February-2008, 06:09 PM
I've been using a vista machine since I got my own PC and to be honest no complaints (except from the amount of patches needed for Games (Quake 4 and Unreal Tournament) and the security questions) but apart form that, smooth, fast enough and lets me know if anything goes wrong with it (which is few and far between).

Barry Shnikov
3rd-February-2008, 11:29 AM
Oh, another problem I forgot about.

Vista randomly starts up in 1600x1200 mode, which is frustrating since I have a 22" monitor set to 1920 x 1440.

I worked out a work-around which was to do a hard re-set on the system unit and it would then start up in the proper mode. This prevented the useless bloody OS from moving all my icons around on the desktop so that I have to set them out again after resetting the resolution.

This time, it didn't work, and now Vista refuses to recognise my monitor and won't let me set to any resolution higher than 1600 x 1200.

So now I have to waste god knows how much time finding out wha**** is going on and sort it out. Instead of doing what I want to do. It would be like having to muck about under the bonnet of your car every third time you want to drive the damn thing.

Barry Shnikov
11th-February-2008, 12:00 AM
Solved the last problem. You have to click the box that prevents Vista from showing any but authorised monitor resolutions. You then get dozens of unauthorised resolutions - pick one, any one - and full steam ahead.

But here's another one.

I have my Task Bar at the left of the screen. It has about 30 or so Quick Start icons, and is about 5 icons wide; I have it set to Autohide, so that there is a two pixel strip at the left and when I mouse over the strip the Taskbar expands to the right; I can start a program, switch to one that's already open, look at the System tray, etc., but once I've finished, the Taskbar rolls up to the left and I get my whole screen back. Have my windows system set up like this for years, since W98 if not earlier. At work too.

Vista, for some reason, from time to time, stops autohiding the taskbar so it lays on top of all open windows. This is the worst of both worldsl; not only do I lose 10% of my screen real-estate, but I can't see the bit that's hidden under the Taskbar.

There's a workaround (set the taskbar autohide OFF, then set it back ON again, but it won't function properly until I reboot.

Another Redmond reliability issue.

Barry Shnikov
14th-February-2008, 07:43 PM
And Vista doesn't support Windows Help Files, so if you want to use any Windows legacy program, the help file is useless.

There can't be any good reason for that, it's just buggerishness or couldn't care less from Microsoft.

Mr Darcy
15th-February-2008, 12:07 AM
[quote=Barry Shnikov;453279]And Vista doesn't support Windows Help Files, so if you want to use any Windows legacy program, the help file is useless.[quote]

See this one for the good reasons:

The Windows Help (WinHlp32.exe) program is no longer included in Windows operating systems starting with Windows Vista (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/917607)

And this one for the workaround:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=6EBCFAD9-D3F5-4365-8070-334CD175D4BB&displaylang=en

Barry Shnikov
21st-February-2008, 10:42 AM
[quote=Barry Shnikov;453279]And Vista doesn't support Windows Help Files, so if you want to use any Windows legacy program, the help file is useless.[quote]

See this one for the good reasons:

The Windows Help (WinHlp32.exe) program is no longer included in Windows operating systems starting with Windows Vista (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/917607)

What - "it no longer meets Microsoft standards"? That, when I was a small boy and being asked to explain my actions, was the sort of thing that would result in my Dad telling me it wasn't a reason, it was just an excuse. The fact of the matter is they couldn't be arsed to work out a way to enable their customers - you know, the people who buy $billions worth of software off them - to access Help files for programs the upgrades for which they might have no way of affording, or even for which there is no upgrade. It's just contempt for the customer, and sooner or later that spells disaster even for the largest companies.

And this one for the workaround:

Download details: WinHlp32.exe for Windows Vista (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=6EBCFAD9-D3F5-4365-8070-334CD175D4BB&displaylang=en)
Thanks!! I'll have a look for that over the weekend.

Barry Shnikov
21st-February-2008, 11:16 AM
Vista inconvenienced me again on Saturday, by starting up to reveal only a black screen with a white arrow cursor. I started in Safe Mode - same problem, so not the graphics driver (which in any event was Nvidia's Jan 2008 driver).

So I had to use the Vista DVD Rom and go through the Repair Installation routine twice which Restored me to an earlier point. So that was a waste of two hours.

Then the ealier Restore point did not have a full installation of my Epson R2400 printer, and I went all round the houses - turning USB printing off and back on again, uninstalling, reinstalling, trying to print - before finally resolving the issue. By which time it was too late to do the prints which I had intended to take with me to freestyle that night. Another two plus hours wasted.

DON'T BUY VISTA. If you get a new PC, get one with XP / SP3.

Rumour is now that Vienna, the next version of Windows, is going to be ready in 2009. So wait for that. It couldn't possibly be worse (famous last words).

timbp
21st-February-2008, 11:20 AM
they couldn't be arsed to work out a way to enable their customers - you know, the people who buy $billions worth of software off them - to access Help files for programs

They have worked out a way. And earlier posts in this thread contain links to it. Microsoft just didn't think it worth including the option in the new version by default.

So you have a program you have been using, and now you've upgraded to Vista, and you still need to access the help files? It can't be a very easy program to use; maybe you should look for an alternative that works with Vista.

Barry Shnikov
21st-February-2008, 12:01 PM
So you have a program you have been using, and now you've upgraded to Vista, and you still need to access the help files? It can't be a very easy program to use; maybe you should look for an alternative that works with Vista.

Thanks for the suggestion. Are you volunteering to pay for it? Possibly you are so wealthy that having to replace all your legacy programs is just a flea bite. Not so for me.

There are programs where some functions are only used from time to time, and it is not possible to remember precisely how to invoke and control all those functions. Since software publishers routinely don't bother with manuals anymore, relying on electronic documents and a well-designed (sometimes, not so well) Help system, Micrososft's decision to simply inform anyone trying to use such a Help system that they can't do it anymore, or that they have to have internet access on that machine at that moment in order to resolve the problem and use the program as it was intended, is simply down to commercial indifference.

'We're a monopolistic market leader. If you don't like the way we do things, good luck with Linux. Ha ha.'

I'm no IT expert, but I know my way round computers and Windows, can edit Registry files and use the Command prompt and the Task Manager and Device Manager. And yet time and time again Vista has got in the way of me getting my tasks done in a way that XP, 98, 95 and 3.1 never did.

Lynn
21st-February-2008, 12:12 PM
Seems to me that if you have some tech knowledge you can adapt Vista to make it run with no problems and indeed find it better than XP.

So basically its completely unsuitable as a product for the mass market who just want to turn on their PC and use it, without having to make any tweaks or changes. :rolleyes:

straycat
21st-February-2008, 12:23 PM
Seems to me that if you have some tech knowledge you can adapt Vista to make it run with no problems and indeed find it better than XP.
Certainly not true for everyone. I'm one techie who prefers XP.

Lynn
21st-February-2008, 12:27 PM
Certainly not true for everyone. I'm one techie who prefers XP.Yep, I know, that was what I meant 'can' adapt it and find it better than XP. I meant 'possibly' to both parts of the statement. I should have addeda a 'may' after the indeed to clarify!

timbp
21st-February-2008, 12:47 PM
So basically its completely unsuitable as a product for the mass market who just want to turn on their PC and use it, without having to make any tweaks or changes. :rolleyes:

I know I am better at sorting out computer problems than any of my friends, and any of the people I used to work with (and probably any of those I now work with, but I don't know them well enough to be sure).

When I bought my new computer, I was a bit unsure about choosing Vista.
But it is the only computer I have bought where I could just turn it on and start using it, without having to make any tweaks or changes.
In fact, it is the first computer I have ever owned that has worked the way I want. (And I am counting my original MacSE with Word 4.)

Barry Shnikov
21st-February-2008, 01:21 PM
Of course people are going to buy Vista and it will work right out of the box. Many people buy a Russell Hobbs toaster and never have any problems with it.

Hardly anyone has real problems with their toaster. Many people however are buying Vista and finding it a buggering nuisance. I know 3 people who returned to PC World and asked them to install XP instead, as had been promised when they originally bought their computer.

You never hear anyone say 'Well, the latest Russell Hobbs toaster is OK so long as you're a technical type and can work out how to tweak it so that it works acceptably well".

I recognise that Microsoft were trapped, originally by writing an 8 bit operating system for a chip designed for washing machines to power an IBM 'personal computer', overall worldwide final sales figures for which were forecast to be not more than 2,000 units; and by the fact that the PC manufacturers then had to produce PCs that were backwardly compatible with the operating system and therefore the 8-bit washing machine chip, so that when Windows was first introduced it too had to be compatible with outdated technology and every subsequent version of Windows has also been required - until Vista - to be backwardly compatible.

That's no excuse for putting out an operating system in which, for example, ineffective and inadequate 'content sniffing' of files in a folder leads to a folder which contains nothing but .jpg files to be classified as a music folder, and even for protected folders like 'My Documents' to be classified as a music folder, meaning that every time I want to sort 'My documents' in order of date I have to go first to the 'View' menu and add 'Date' to the list of file data to be shown. Until I get round to shutting content sniffing off, which requires an edit to the Registry and is therefore far beyond your average computer user.

Mr Darcy
21st-February-2008, 01:51 PM
meaning that every time I want to sort 'My documents' in order of date I have to go first to the 'View' menu and add 'Date' to the list of file data to be shown.

If you right-click in the 'documents' folder (not on a file in it though), there is an option called 'Customize this folder'. Select that and the on the 'Customize' tab there is a drop down list of choices, you'd probably want 'Documents'. It will also reset the template for the subfolders if you wish.

philsmove
22nd-February-2008, 03:07 PM
BBC NEWS | Technology | Microsoft warns on Vista update (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7205059.stm)

RedFox
23rd-February-2008, 12:20 PM
BBC NEWS | Technology | Microsoft warns on Vista update (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7205059.stm)

Ah well, at least it doesn't stop anything important working. Mainly just your security software.
:worthy:

When I get round to upgrading, it will be to Linux.

Robin
23rd-February-2008, 12:56 PM
Can I just point out that you cannot compare 64 bit vista with 32 bit XP ?

There are and will be many compatibility issues with any version of 64bit Windows as opposed to 32bit.

IMHO, vista seems to be far more of a polished product than XP was when it was launched - please remember that lots of people had the same sort of comments when moving from win98/2000 to XP.

I personally finf that if you switch off all the "enhancements" that vista becomes rock stable.

I've also noticed that it definitely works better on new pc's that it is supplied with as opposed to "homebrew's", but that again, if you switch off extras and disable any un-needed services it seems to be as stable or even more so than XP

just my experience.

Barry Shnikov
24th-February-2008, 02:06 PM
If you right-click in the 'documents' folder (not on a file in it though), there is an option called 'Customize this folder'. Select that and the on the 'Customize' tab there is a drop down list of choices, you'd probably want 'Documents'. It will also reset the template for the subfolders if you wish.

Thanks, but I'm not an idiot!!

The problem is caused by the Vista system not functioning as advertised. The folders in question do not have a Customise this folder option. Next time you are looking at your, e.g., Documents folder, have a look. You'll see the option isn't there. That's where the problem lies; you aren't supposed to want or need to customise this and a handful of other folders: however, if Documents insists that it's a music folder, despite containing not a single music file and despite being intended to be a general folder, then you are screwed unless you re-set the system folders (which I've already done once, only to have the gremlins gradually creep back in) or switch off 'content sniffing', which I am informed will sort it out permanently.

Barry Shnikov
24th-February-2008, 02:09 PM
I personally finf that if you switch off all the "enhancements" that vista becomes rock stable.

I've also noticed that it definitely works better on new pc's that it is supplied with as opposed to "homebrew's", but that again, if you switch off extras and disable any un-needed services it seems to be as stable or even more so than XP

just my experience.

I'm next to speechless with what you've posted. You aren't engaging with my criticism, which is that Vista is a crappy operating system.

I refer to my comments above about toaster. *** what in the bowels of christ is the point of an operating system that only functions as advertised when you switch off everything but the core services? Might as well point out that I could probably still run CP/M-86 if I do enough juggling...

Robin
25th-February-2008, 02:41 AM
I'm next to speechless with what you've posted. You aren't engaging with my criticism, which is that Vista is a crappy operating system.

I refer to my comments above about toaster. *** what in the bowels of christ is the point of an operating system that only functions as advertised when you switch off everything but the core services? Might as well point out that I could probably still run CP/M-86 if I do enough juggling...

Sorry, was merely trying to help with work-arounds. If you;ve bought something and are stuck with it, then you make do. The fact that there are inherrent faults with the concept is neither here nor there. If you wonder why you should switch everything off, maybe its because microsoft themselves have realised that its not a bad thing - look at the latest version of windows server 2008 - shares about 70% of vista code and has no gui at all!

Barry Shnikov
1st-March-2008, 09:23 PM
Sorry, was merely trying to help with work-arounds. If you;ve bought something and are stuck with it, then you make do. The fact that there are inherrent faults with the concept is neither here nor there. If you wonder why you should switch everything off, maybe its because microsoft themselves have realised that its not a bad thing - look at the latest version of windows server 2008 - shares about 70% of vista code and has no gui at all!

Your wish to help is appreciated; apologies if I came across as impatient.

80% of the time Vista is OK. it's the 20% that makes me want to see Microsoft sued to their knees for releasing such dodgy software. I read in PCPro or similar where a sysop had to Run As Administrator and select 'Add Printer', ignoring Vista's warning messages, in order to install an all-in-one device because Vista's plug-n-play add printer routine crashed every time he tried to use his printer. His opinion was because the plug-n-play routine was not adequately error trapped: he says Microsoft are like the builders and operators of the Titanic - we don't code for that eventuality because it's impossible, just as lifeboats weren't required because the ship was unsinkable.