Etiquette for the first post-class dance?

[David Bailey]

After reading this:

Had a strange experience recently, my first time at a new venue. As we went from beginner's class into freestyle the guy I was dancing with carried on repeating the 4 moves we had learnt and did so until the end of the track. It did get a little tedious towards the end but I assumed he was a beginner so was happy to carry on. Later, when we were both in the intermediate class I realised that he wasn't a beginner so he must have thought I was - clearly wasn't on top form that night :blush:

What's a good technique for the first dance after a class finishes?

Should the routine be practiced? Or should it be just another freestyle?

[Lee Bartholomew]

After reading this:


What's a good technique for the first dance after a class finishes?

Should the routine be practiced? Or should it be just another freestyle?

No Poll? I know you love polls.


Depends on who you get. If im dancing beginners lesson with a compleate beginner or someone who has done a few weeks, I'll try and mix the moves up alittle with a few other basic ones. If im dancing with a more experianced dancer I norm say "thank god thats finnished" and dance properly.

[Keefy]

What's a good technique for the first dance after a class finishes?
Should the routine be practiced? Or should it be just another freestyle?There might be a move in there that I need to practice :nice: Assuming that you're talking about the "twice through and then into freestyle" track I've tended to go back into the routine for the third time but then put in a different or varied move - depending on the reaction to that change it can progress into a full freestyle or stick more closely to the lesson moves.

[ducasi]

I tend to have already diverted from the routine even before the teacher says "and you're on your own". But that's just me – not a recommendation...

[Frankie_4711]

As a leader - will depend on the partner. If she's a complete beginner and/or unsure/nervous about what's happening then I'll tend to mostly stick to the routine, maybe throw in a few easy Beginner moves like a Backpass, Shoulder Slide or Manspin that the follower doesn't need to know anything about and may not even notice are happening. If she's been a few times/more confident then I'll just generally freestyle Beginner moves, maybe throw in a couple of easier Intermediate moves. If she's more experienced I'll just go straight into freestyle.

As a follower - obviously I'll just go with whatever my lead throws at me, but for preference, if he is capable, I would prefer normal freestyle. I have, on several occasions with different partners, gone into freestyle with someone I know is capable of freestyling, but who just sticks to the routine, and yes, that is annoying!

[Frankie_4711]

I tend to have already diverted from the routine even before the teacher says "and you're on your own". But that's just me – not a recommendation...

I know people like that! I love dancing with them!

[MartinHarper]

Should the routine be practiced? Or should it be just another freestyle?

Whichever you and your partner prefer.

[DavidY]

As a leader I think there's a general principle of trying to match the moves to your partner.

The different thing about the first post-class dance (fpcd) is that it's one of the best opportunities to practice what you've just learnt. If there was an intermediate move I found tricky, for instance, then I would try to throw it in more often in the fpcd to see if I can lead it sucessfully.

If I can't lead a move to someone that I know has just been in the same lesson (and is probably half-expecting it) then it gives me useful information that I'll have to do a fair amount of work to "get" that move.:blush:

[Twirly]

Surely it’s up to the lead to match the level of their partner? But then how does the lead do that? (Maybe that should be another thread?) If I’m in a different venue and am not sure that my partner is aware that I’m not a beginner (or I’m not sure of their level) I have sometimes said “you can do more than beginners moves with me”. Though I haven’t’ done that for a very long time now.

Apart from when I’ve gone into freestyle with beginners who want/need to practise the routine we’ve just done, I’ve always had leads do other moves on me, from my very first week dancing.

But surely even if an experienced lead did just do the routine, wouldn’t that be a good chance to practise this technique we talk about so much? :wink:

[Gav]

Surely it’s up to the lead to match the level of their partner? But then how does the lead do that? (Maybe that should be another thread?) If I’m in a different venue and am not sure that my partner is aware that I’m not a beginner (or I’m not sure of their level) I have sometimes said “you can do more than beginners moves with me”. Though I haven’t’ done that for a very long time now.

Apart from when I’ve gone into freestyle with beginners who want/need to practise the routine we’ve just done, I’ve always had leads do other moves on me, from my very first week dancing.

But surely even if an experienced lead did just do the routine, wouldn’t that be a good chance to practise this technique we talk about so much? :wink:

I can usually tell by the end of the "twice through" whether my partner is a beginner or not.
I get it wrong sometimes and find that I need to revert to beginners moves only to get the 'flow' of the dance back. :blush:
Sometimes (and it's a nice thing), I get it wrong and assume that they're an experienced dancer, and it turns out that they're a newcomer who's a naturally good follower. That's always a time when I'm happy to get it wrong. :clap:

[David Bailey]

Surely it’s up to the lead to match the level of their partner?
Yep.


But then how does the lead do that?
We're clever :na:

Seriously, any experienced lead should be able to judge in a few seconds roughly how experienced a new partner is - which is why it's usually a good idea to start simple. Actually, I usually stay simple throughout anyway :)


But surely even if an experienced lead did just do the routine, wouldn’t that be a good chance to practise this technique we talk about so much? :wink:
That was kind of what I was getting at, yes - does practicing the routine help develop technique?

[Gav]

That was kind of what I was getting at, yes - does practicing the routine help develop technique?

Only if you use the routine to practice a technique, otherwise it just helps you to remember the moves.

[Twirly]

That was kind of what I was getting at, yes - does practicing the routine help develop technique?

The trouble is, if you’re not taught technique at any point, how are you to know what to practice?

I’ve picked up more about technique from reading the forum (even if it does confuse me sometimes) and thinking about things I’ve read when I’m dancing than I’ve been taught in most classes. As most of the folks at my regular venues are probably not on here, most of them won’t have a clue as it’s never mentioned.

[Gav]

The trouble is, if you’re not taught technique at any point, how are you to know what to practice?

I’ve picked up more about technique from reading the forum (even if it does confuse me sometimes) and thinking about things I’ve read when I’m dancing than I’ve been taught in most classes. As most of the folks at my regular venues are probably not on here, most of them won’t have a clue as it’s never mentioned.

:yeah::respect::yeah::respect::yeah:

[LMC]

As a leader - will depend on the partner. ETC.
:yeah: Nervous beginners - might mix the moves around, or, as Frankie said, introduce one or two simple moves not taught in the routine. Experienced followers - I do my best not to bore them, being still a fairly beginner lead myself :blush:. Backleaders - once through the routine, into freestyle, still simple moves 'cos I'm still a new lead, but will use every variation I can think of :devil: - add in walks, ignore the Sacred Rule of Three and use two or four counts for manhattan steps, armjives, comb wiggles, etc.


As a follower - obviously I'll just go with whatever my lead throws at me, but for preference, if he is capable, I would prefer normal freestyle.
(my bold) :yeah: too - it's twice through and into freestyle, not twice through and repeat until end of track. Different with beginners of course.


The different thing about the first post-class dance (fpcd) is that it's one of the best opportunities to practice what you've just learnt. If there was an intermediate move I found tricky, for instance, then I would try to throw it in more often in the fpcd to see if I can lead it sucessfully.
:yeah: Plus if it's a move I really like, so I can "fix" it in my mind. If I really hate a move in the Intermediate routine then I just delete it immediately - archiespins and any duck-under move don't even make it to the twice through, let alone into freestyle. Other leads will prolly give the follower the chance to practise that move (shrug).

[MartinHarper]

the Sacred Rule of Three

The Sacred Rule of Three?

[Ghost]

After reading this:


What's a good technique for the first dance after a class finishes?

Should the routine be practiced? Or should it be just another freestyle?
In terms of dancing with someone you don't know - I just ask what they want to do along the lines of "Do you want to stick to moves or shall I just dance?"

In terms of getting better at the moves - this is probably your best chance to try it with someone who still remembers it, which is useful if you're still in the uncertain stage. As the night moves on the ladies will gradually forget it and there's a gradual transistion of more weight restin on the lead to "get it right". Next week the ladie will be even more hazy. Then dance it at another venue where it probably hasn't been taught (recently anyway).

Alternatively just dance after the freestyle and bribe someone with chocolate to practice it with :flower:

[Freya]

When I first read the title I thought it meant do you continue to dance after the twice through.

A couple of times now I've seen a guy just walk off the dance floor and sit down leaving the lady a bit in limbo at that point and I think it's really really rude! I've done it once when I was really really bursting for the loo! the ladyI was leading was very understanding and laughed and when I returned I found her and we danced again!

However re: the actual topic of the this thread.

I know one guy who for the first 2 songs safter the beginner class will only do the beginner moves no matter who he dances with. I'm guessing this is to fix them in his mind and practise! After the intermediate class he'll do the same with those moves. Then he'll start mixing them up and adding in moves!

I, however, am with Ducasi, I have trouble remembering the moves during the class let alone once we're into freestyle! Moves like the "in and out" get completely left out! I hate it!

[Beowulf]

ignore the Sacred Rule of Three


The Sacred Rule of Three?

:yeah: The Sacred Rule of Three?:confused: :confused:

Please enlighten me... (me<-noob)

[StokeBloke]

:yeah: The Sacred Rule of Three?:confused: :confused:

Please enlighten me... (me<-noob)
I think, although I may be wrong, that LMC is talking about the number of iterations of a move as taught in Ceroc classes. For example with the octopus, don't lead lady under, man under, lady under as you are taught in class. But lead man under, lady under, man under, lady under into basket, to force the back leader to quit anticipating and just follow.

Commonly known as 'mixing it up a bit' :wink:

[LMC]

Has no-one ever noticed the Sacred Rule of Three? :eek: (OK, it's only been called that since 1338 today, and only by me.)

Three armjives, then pushspin or turn/return
Three wiggles on a slo comb
Three bits of an octopus (StokeBloke is half right in the mixing it up a bit description - I do that too :D)
Three side-to-side shoulders
Three in-and-outs (although I never lead the chest push :rofl: - and hate it as a follower)
Three Manhattan steps
Three grapevines to a Columbian

contd p94

Go for Two or Four if you get a backleading follower who should know better - you know it makes sense :devil:

[Jamie]

Three in-and-outs (although I never lead the chest push :rofl: - and hate it as a follower)

I follow a lead, if my hands leave my leaders, I freeze, my hands never make it to their chest, they always look quite disgruntled too! :devil:

[purplehyacinth]

I know this is in the "intermediates" thread, and the tone of the discussion has focussed very much on the relevant etiquette for people (and in particularly) who are capable of doing more than just the four moves featured in the class - quite understandably.

But I am worried in case a nervous newbie wanders on to this thread and gets the wrong idea. So this post is directed towards dancers - and particularly leaders - who are "just learning".

IF YOU HAVE ONLY JUST STARTED DANCING AND CAN ONLY DO THE FOUR MOVES FEATURED IN THE CLASS, OR HAVE BEEN DANCING FOR JUST A SHORT WHILE (OR INDEED, WANT TO KEEP PRACTISING WHAT YOU HAVE JUST LEARNT) , IT IS COMPLETELY OK JUST TO CONTINUE WITH THE FOUR MOVES YOU HAVE LEARNT IN THE CLASS. IF YOU HAVE THE CONFIDENCE TO "MIX THEM UP A BIT" OR ADD IN OTHER MOVES, THAT IS GREAT - GO FOR IT. EQUALLY, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT CONFIDENCE, THEN IT IS STILL COMPLETLY OK JUST TO CONTINUE WITH THE FOUR (OR HOWEVER MANY) MOVES YOU KNOW, IN THE ORDER YOU ARE HAPPY WITH.

Just wanted to make that clear.:flower:

[MartinHarper]

Three in-and-outs (although I never lead the chest push :rofl: - and hate it as a follower)

I thought it was two?
Incidentally, Trouble leads a mean chest push variation.

[Gadget]

To paraphrase:

IF YOU are a beginner, CONTINUE WITH THE MOVES or "MIX THEM UP A BIT"

Just wanted to make that clear.:wink: (Of course you could probably remove the "If you are a beginner" bit as well ;))

Personally, I continue dancing and tend to 'base' the dance on the moves just taught. How much I vary it depends on my partner.
I am reguarly accused of "just trying to confuse" beginners because I lead two or three of the moves led in the class, then put in something different, or I change the ending. My response is that "the class is over, you're now dancing :)"

I also get "I don't know that move" or "I havn't done that move yet" - which always puzzles me because the comment is normally made after they have completed it and are back to what they 'recognise' :rolleyes:

[Jhutch]

What's a good technique for the first dance after a class finishes?

Should the routine be practiced? Or should it be just another freestyle?

IMO the first post-class dance should have the same rules as all the other dances, ie do you what you want within the capabilities of yourself and your partner.

The only different circumstances that i can think of are that first-timers might not know what is going on, ie followers might not be used to following so launching into a load of awkward moves is probably not a good idea. Also, doing flashy moves might put people off a bit, especially if it is quite cramped.

As to the post that started this off, there are a few reaons why he might have carried on with the beginner moves - maybe he felt like practising his lead doing them, maybe he thought that that was what he should do, maybe he had the mind-blank(:blush:) where you suddenly can't remember any other moves.

[Freya]

I also get "I don't know that move" or "I havn't done that move yet" - which always puzzles me because the comment is normally made after they have completed it and are back to what they 'recognise' :rolleyes:Thats because I think they often think that they have cocked it up!!! Because it's often a variation of the move they recognise part of it then you go do something different and they think that they did something wrong, so when you take them back to the routine they think that they did the move wrong. Or thats what I sometimes used to thought! (That was a but rambly! But you get the idea!)

[Gadget]

Thats because I think they often think that they have cocked it up!!! Because it's often a variation of the move they recognise part of it then you go do something different and they think that they did something wrong, so when you take them back to the routine they think that they did the move wrong.
hmmm... I understand the thought process now, but I'm left wondering if I should warn (beginners) in advance that I am likely to deviate from what they have been taught, or just surprise them? :devil:


Or thats what I sometimes used to thought!
Sometimes it is a screw-up; and I make it into a 'new' move. ;) Most times it's an intentional distraction and I'll get back to the plot at some point... erm... possably. :blush:

[Freya]

hmmm... I understand the thought process now, but I'm left wondering if I should warn (beginners) in advance that I am likely to deviate from what they have been taught, or just surprise them? :devil: Nah then they'll Panic and think "I'm gonna screw this up I've never done this before!" When leading beginners (Don't do it very often because I find if I lead one then I end up leading most the night!) I just tend to smile and nod! Often because I can't hear what their saying!

[Andy McGregor]

I norm say "thank god thats finnished" and dance properly.How did I miss this? :confused:

Shouldn't that say "dance like I usually do"?:whistle: