Learning plan for dancing

[David Bailey]

Do you have one?

If so, how's it organised?

Any tips? Do's and don't's?

[Mythical]

Yeah. It's a really scientific, tried and tested method that all the experts swear by.

1. Go dancing
2. Enjoy it

[Gav]

Do you have one?

If so, how's it organised?

Any tips? Do's and don't's?

Just suck the fun out of learning to dance, why don't you? :na:

[David Bailey]

Just suck the fun out of learning to dance, why don't you? :na:
I guess that's a "no" from Gav then... :na:

OK, let's put it this way - if you wanted to learn, say, Spanish, what would be your best method:

Wander along to random Spanish classes, at random intervals, and gab in Spanish with other learners?
Study, learn, get feedback, then practice?

[Terpsichorea]

I guess that's a "no" from Gav then... :na:

OK, let's put it this way - if you wanted to learn, say, Spanish, what would be your best method:

Wander along to random Spanish classes, at random intervals, and gab in Spanish with other learners?
Study, learn, get feedback, then practice?

Michel Thomas CDs to begin with...a lot better than the way I was taught languages at school!

I wonder if his principles could apply to dance? The emphasis is much more on grammar, on constructing sentences fluently with few words, rather than amassing loads of volcabulary.

[the whale]

Go to classes.
Purchase alcoholic beverage.
Get nervous.
Participate in beginners class... feel smug 'cause you're not totally new.
Try a wee bit of freestyle, but not too much.
Give the intermediate class a go.
Feel completely unco-ordinated and demoralised.
Run home.
Lie awake all night trying to remember what you learned.

Repeat as often as required because it's fun:wink:

D

[ducasi]

Yeah. It's a really scientific, tried and tested method that all the experts swear by.

1. Go dancing
2. Enjoy it
:yeah:

[Ghost]

Do you have one?

If so, how's it organised?

Any tips? Do's and don't's?

I keep reconsidering the same questions and see how the answers change

I view learning as moving up a spiral. If you look from an aerial perspective I'd appear to be going round in circles, but in reality each time I come back to the same "point" I'm at a higher elevation and can see new things.

I write down "lightbulb moments" and periodically go back to them.

I write down what works at that point in time - this lets me compare how things are developing over time.

I write down "blue sky" ideas eg be able to lead ochos on anyone at will. I gradually add notes to them on ideas I've had that might work, or things others have suggested or stuff that fluked in freestyle etc.

I go and look at stuff other people have done to a high level - not necessarily dance: sculpture, skate-boarding, origami. It often inspires me or helps me look at dancing in a different way

My Little Book of Dance Compliments for when everything goes to hell

Chocolate

Beyond that it's fairly chaotic. I work on whatever interests me at the time and usually find that what clicks was something I'm not working on but was playing with a while ago. It does mean that I'm simultaneously working on beginner, intermediate and advanced stuff which tends to wind up people who want to know what level I'm at.

Oh and I ask questions. A lot.

"Oh that's just Christopher - he asks a lot of questions ~ Georgious Dancer" :hug:

My best piece of advice is that when you freestyle, enjoy it.

Edit - ok I'm going to qualify the last bit in light of the other posts. There's a lot of teenagers who can tell you what the goal average was for their football team five years ago, or what colour eyes each member of a pop band has, but who can't remember the first twenty elements of the periodic table. I've found a fundamental part of learning is that there's enjoyment to it. Otherwise it becomes a chore and your learning curve tends to drop off horribly.

[Mythical]

Originally Posted by DavidJames
I guess that's a "no" from Gav then...

OK, let's put it this way - if you wanted to learn, say, Spanish, what would be your best method:
Wander along to random Spanish classes, at random intervals, and gab in Spanish with other learners?
Study, learn, get feedback, then practice?

Actually, the first method is probably the best (apparently, you find that the people who speak spanish BEST are the ones who actually use the language every day, and from day one - not the ones who sit and write random spanish phrases in a book)

Imagine trying to learn the beginners moves from a book! How many people do you think would do MJ, if teachers wrote the moves on a blackboard and expected you to copy them down - aside from the fact that it's boring, it'd also be hellishly confusing!

[MartinHarper]

My "plan" consists of one item I want to work on for each of leading/following.

Currently:
Leading - dancing to the overall feel of the music, rather than working with individual notes.
Following - taking my own weight in dips. At least a bit.

I keep each item until my gadfly mind sees something else it wants to do.

[LMC]

The process goes something like:

What am I particularly bad at at the moment?

OK, I'll work on that.

Damn, now I've forgotten how to ...

So I'd better work on that.

Repeat. Incessantly.

[ducasi]

Part of the problem with having a "learning plan" is that you need to know what you need to learn. Thus you need to find out what you're bad at – or just not good at. Finding out can be a fairly dispiriting experience.

Also, making the time to practice, (sometimes) imposing on other people, and keeping in mind your learning plan during dances can also affect your enjoyment of dancing.

So instead I go to classes (not as many as I should, at present!) and as many technical workshops as I can. Then I let what I am taught sink in at its own rate. Sometimes it takes a moment, other times it can be months before something I have been taught clicks into place.

This seems to work, in that I dance to enjoy myself and at the same time, I am becoming a better dancer. OK, maybe not as fast as I could if I had a proper learning plan and practised every week, but I don't think I could keep up my enthusiasm for dancing if I did so.

Of course, everyone is different – what works for me may not work for you. The most important thing is you're enjoying yourself, and how you go about learning isn't that important in comparison. :)

[JiveLad]

Go to classes.
Purchase alcoholic beverage.
Get nervous.
Participate in beginners class... feel smug 'cause you're not totally new.
Try a wee bit of freestyle, but not too much.
Give the intermediate class a go.
Feel completely unco-ordinated and demoralised.
Run home.
Lie awake all night trying to remember what you learned.

Repeat as often as required because it's fun:wink:

D

I was speed reading this...........and read: "...purchase alcohol......, participate in beginners, try and wee a bit in freestlye........"

At that point (seriously) I had a vision of someone learning to dance who was so nervous they could not pee......so they had to try a bit during the freestyle.

...Oops :grin:

[Gadget]

Personally I use the classes to practice stuff and the free-style to dance... ocasionally inserting some of the practiced stuff into it.

As to what to practice...
Improving my dancing (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/intermediate-corner/3116-improving-my-dancing.html) (an old thread of mine)
What are you working on? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/lets-talk-about-dance/7082-what-you-working.html) (another quite old one, but not by me & with more input from other people)

[FoxyFunkster]

Do you have one?

If so, how's it organised?

Any tips? Do's and don't's?

best pearl of wisdom i can offer is don`t try to do too much too soon....i did 15-20 beginners classes before going to an intermediate class....make sure you master the beginners moves and are able to dance them well....and because a majority of intermediate moves are a variation of the beginners moves i now find it very easy to pick up,rip off,steal,borrow,learn new intermediate moves.....and most of all have a ball and enjoy yourself.....oh and as i`ve officially banned the word SORRY at ISH now.....don`t keep apologising....making mistakes is all part of the learning curve......

[FoxyFunkster]

best pearl of wisdom i can offer is don`t try to do too much too soon....i did 15-20 beginners classes before going to an intermediate class....make sure you master the beginners moves and are able to dance them well....and because a majority of intermediate moves are a variation of the beginners moves i now find it very easy to pick up,rip off,steal,borrow,learn new intermediate moves.....and most of all have a ball and enjoy yourself.....oh and as i`ve officially banned the word SORRY at ISH now.....don`t keep apologising....making mistakes is all part of the learning curve......

sorry almost forgot...absolutely write down the names of all the moves you learn....great tip is to write them out in a text message on your mobile and then save them to drafts.....great help i found....

[Lee Bartholomew]

sorry almost forgot...absolutely write down the names of all the moves you learn....great tip is to write them out in a text message on your mobile and then save them to drafts.....great help i found....


Cant text type. Im worse at it than a chimp with broken fingers. :blush:

[David Bailey]

Actually, the first method is probably the best (apparently, you find that the people who speak spanish BEST are the ones who actually use the language every day, and from day one - not the ones who sit and write random spanish phrases in a book)
Oh well, fair enough then.

Why bother with all this education lark at all, why not just let kids learn Maths from other kids, and practice it from day to day? That's bound to work.

Why do we bother teaching at all?

Your analogy only holds any water at all if you assume that you're talking to fluent Spanish speakers, and even then it's limited to the common conversational topics and usages of those speakers. For example, you might never learn any grammatical rules,

If you're talking to fellow Spanish-learners, you'll just reenforce each others' problems.



Imagine trying to learn the beginners moves from a book!
Or a DVD, for example? Oh, hold on, I must have imagined all those DVDs and "step-check" instruction booklets that Ceroc sell...

And as a converse example, imagine trying to advance past "baby-talk" level in any discipline without some structure.


How many people do you think would do MJ, if teachers wrote the moves on a blackboard and expected you to copy them down - aside from the fact that it's boring, it'd also be hellishly confusing!
Three points:
- If you'll look up at the area, you'll notice that this is the Intermediates corner, not the Beginners' corner. So I'm not talking about "learning from scratch", I'm talking about self-improvement.
- I don't care how many people do MJ, I'm not at all involved in the business. Their retention rate is none of my business. I'm trying to improve my dancing.
- Partner dancing is hard. It's not an easy discipline to master, it takes effort, skill and determination to progress beyond a certain point. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying, there's no "easy route".

[Beowulf]

Do you have one?
If so, how's it organised?


Can I call you Rimmer without getting an infraction ? :wink:

(if this sounds familiar.. you watch too much Red Dwarf.. Like Me)

DavidJames: Look, I've got my Freestyle on Tuesday and I don't know any moves. Where's my revision timetable?
Beowulf: Wait, is this the thing in all different colours, with all the subjects divided into style periods and rest periods and self dancing time?
DavidJames: It took me seven weeks to make it. I've got to cram my whole revision into one night.
Beowulf: Hang on, is this the thing with the note on it in red which said, "Vital. Valuable. Urgent. Do not touch on pain of death?"
DavidJames: Yes!
Beowulf: I threw it away.
DavidJames: Ha ha ha ha. Tee hee. Where is it?
Beowulf: No, I didn't. I pinned it up on the wall.
DavidJames: What? Why?
Beowulf: To dry it out.
DavidJames: What do you mean, dry it out?
Beowulf: Well, I spilled a lentil Curry on it. Don't worry, it's a little bit smudged but you can read most of it, especially if you scrape the lumps off.
DavidJames: You spoiled my -- no, I haven't got time. I'm taking Move learning drugs and all I'm memorising is this conversation.
Beowulf:They're illegal and will get you banned from the forum !
DavidJames: (in a trance) Where's my revision timetable? Look, I've got my Freestyle on Tuesday and I don't know any moves. Where's my revision timetable? Wait, is this the thing in all different colours, with all the subjects divided into style periods and rest periods and self dancing time? It took me seven weeks to make it. I've got to cram my whole revision into one night....

[the whale]

I was speed reading this...........and read: "...purchase alcohol......, participate in beginners, try and wee a bit in freestlye........"

At that point (seriously) I had a vision of someone learning to dance who was so nervous they could not pee......so they had to try a bit during the freestyle.

...Oops :grin:

Jivelad - I need industrial cleaning for my screen & keyboard:respect:

Note to self: do not drink tea & read posts at same time:wink:

D

[JiveLad]

Personally I use the classes to practice stuff and the free-style to dance... ocasionally inserting some of the practiced stuff into it.

As to what to practice...
Improving my dancing (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/intermediate-corner/3116-improving-my-dancing.html) (an old thread of mine)
What are you working on? (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/lets-talk-about-dance/7082-what-you-working.html) (another quite old one, but not by me & with more input from other people)

This is good stuff..........and leads me to something I have been meaning to ask, which is, how often you request feedback from a dance partner?

I remember doing it about 3-4 times -which involved discussions over several minutes..........I found them very helpful - and one of the best ways to learn especially on style.

[the whale]

Three points:
- If you'll look up at the area, you'll notice that this is the Intermediates corner, not the Beginners' corner. So I'm not talking about "learning from scratch", I'm talking about self-improvement.
- I don't care how many people do MJ, I'm not at all involved in the business. Their retention rate is none of my business. I'm trying to improve my dancing.
- Partner dancing is hard. It's not an easy discipline to master, it takes effort, skill and determination to progress beyond a certain point. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying, there's no "easy route".

DJ

Sorry to hijack your intermediate thread with my poor attempt at beginner humour:wink:

For what it's worth and using my experiences with another learned skill, the main ingredient is practice and then some more practice. But... it must be correct practice, otherwise incorrect practice may become a bad habit and may become ingrained. Use teachers, taxis, peer group (anyone willing to help with sufficient knowledge) to give you honest feedback. If possible, watch yourself on video (or whatever media you youngsters use nowadays!).

Yes it is hard to master a skill, but if it was easy, would you be interested?

D

[Lynn]

OK, let's put it this way - if you wanted to learn, say, Spanish, what would be your best method:

Wander along to random Spanish classes, at random intervals, and gab in Spanish with other learners?I've been going wrong all along then, that's more or less exactly how I learnt MJ. Yeah, its different for followers and I also read and posted a lot on here so was working stuff out as I went along.

'Fraid I'm going to be boring and say I haven't any special tips as I've found that what I need to learn and how I learn it varies a lot between dance styles and availability of opportunities to attend classes/practice.

With AT for example I select something to work on, focus on that, then add something else, work on that and the first thing etc. A layering approach. As my brain begins to deal with one concept, I can add another, but I'm still working on the first as well, its just not taking up as much brain space. And when social dancing I forget about learning and just aim to flow, hoping that some of the things I've learnt start to come more naturally in my dancing.

With WCS I'm learning via DVD and dancing with people who are more experienced. Something I've learned (eg basic footwork) becomes more natural so I don't have to work on it as much and can focus on something else - more of a building approach. And yes I strongly feel a need for feedback in this dance style so that I don't fall into bad habits. So I'm more inclined to be thinking about what I'm learning as I'm social dancing.

I need to set myself realistic goals, based on how often I can attend classes/engage in social dancing/practice with a partner.

But always, revision of basics is useful.

[MartinHarper]

It takes effort, skill and determination to progress beyond a certain point.

Where is that certain point? Could you describe the dancing of someone who is stuck at that certain point?


Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying, there's no "easy route".

FAQ: Lead and Follow, section 1.6 (http://www.eijkhout.net/lead_follow/teaching_misteaching.html)


How to learn to dance

1. Learn a few core patterns and some basic things about dance frame.
2. Now concentrate on technique, technique, technique, + leading and following (This definitely requires private coaching.) Do this at any pace comfortable to you. Most beginners concentrate on patterns. This leads to frustration and dance partners arguing and fighting with each other. If you instead concentrate on technique, you will focus more on dancing well *yourself*, instead of casting blame on your *partner*. The better your technique, the more dancing pleasure you will give to your dance partner.
3. Then go back to learning more patterns. You will find it very easy to pick up new patterns.
4. Now observe those people who started learning about when you did, but concentrated on patterns and neglected technique. You will notice they are *still* trying to learn the same patterns you saw them learning a year ago.

My emphasis.
All lies?

[jivecat]

First approach was to muddle along. As soon as I got sufficiently sorted out to realise which bits I was particularly bad at - like spinning - I worked on them consciously, and things improved.

This approach still works but it has got harder for me to work out what I should learn next as I'm stuck with my own bad habits and limitations and it's hard to see beyond them. There are ways out of this (feedback, disciplined training with a fierce teacher, videos etc) but I'm not about to take these.

There are some things you would need a supportive partner to work with as it would be very hard to work on them with random partners in freestyle. Not necessarily impossible, but focussed work with a partner could speed things up as you could pinpoint exactly what it was you wanted to learn and repeat it until you got it.

The muddle-along approach is fine and fun for social dancing but the people who show most improvement have usually put in quite a bit of effort along the way and have not just sat back and waited for it to happen.

[David Bailey]

Where is that certain point? Could you describe the dancing of someone who is stuck at that certain point?
There. Right there. Left a bit, no, right .... ahhh. Got it. Now... scratch :)


My emphasis.
All lies?
Nope - but note that nowhere does it say that learning technique or having private coaching is easy - it just states that learning patterns is a piece of p!ss if you've got technique. Technique is hard; form is much simpler.

[spindr]

Basic plan:

0). Go to class 1, from organisation A -- learn stuff. Try to dance stuff.

This will teach you moves from organisation A.

-------------

Enhanced plan:

0). Go to class 1, from organisation A -- learn stuff. Try to dance stuff.

1). Go to class 2, from organisation B -- learn stuff. Try to dance stuff. Try to dance stuff from previous class #1.

2). Go to class 1, from organisation A -- learn stuff. Try to dance stuff. Try to dance stuff from previous class #2. Go to step 1.

This will teach you which moves from organisation A you can lead/follow, and which moves from organisation B you can lead/follow.

--------------

Add more classes and organisations until bored :)

SpinDr

[Ghost]

A more organised person's plan (insanely good dancer though :respect: )

(NB This stretches over 40 years)

Decide to learn dance.

Go to nearest venue.
Learn moves as taught, practice as shown by teacher.
Enter competitions.

Get older - decide that this isn't quite why they want
Talk to other dancers
Find better teacher

Travel to another country to train with better teacher. Teacher shows moves and concepts. Students video this and return home. Practice at their local venue

Study the history of the dance and the culture it came from. Learn to speak the language. Learn the religion. Understand the influences.

Meet up with other dancers. Swap ideas.

Study own culture

Translate to match own culture

Teach

Write books / produce videos

Open own school



So I would suggest finding the best teachers in the aspects of dance you're interested in and getting a few private lessons videoed for you to work on. I'd also study the influences that made up the dance you're interested in. Learn the language. Watch fillms. Understand the mentality that went into creating it. Then look at the ways time and your own culture has changed it. See how it's adapted in other cultures and why. Be aware of the distinction of someone teaching a dance form as taught in the original country where there may be different average height, different social mores etc and someone who's adapted it to this culture. Look at versions where people have merged the dance with other dance forms.

Also if you were going to produce the "David James how to dance xxx" dvd series, what would you need to know / improve to be at a sufficient level?

[Mythical]

Oh well, fair enough then.

Why bother with all this education lark at all, why not just let kids learn Maths from other kids, and practice it from day to day? That's bound to work.


Sorry. I imagined you were talking about adults learning. I should have known, really, shouldn't i?



Your analogy only holds any water at all if you assume that you're talking to fluent Spanish speakers, and even then it's limited to the common conversational topics and usages of those speakers. For example, you might never learn any grammatical rules,

If you're talking to fellow Spanish-learners, you'll just reenforce each others' problems.


Eventually, you'll have to write something down. I didn't say you could learn all the spanish there is to know in a week. But eventually you'd learn grammar, and more spoken spanish than common conversational topics.

If you're talking to fellow spanish learners, if you have half a brain, you'll realise you've said something wrong and speak to someone who knows better about it.




Or a DVD, for example? Oh, hold on, I must have imagined all those DVDs and "step-check" instruction booklets that Ceroc sell...

And as a converse example, imagine trying to advance past "baby-talk" level in any discipline without some structure.


Which would be pretty useless without occasional classes to wander into, and freestyle to practise at.



Three points:
- If you'll look up at the area, you'll notice that this is the Intermediates corner, not the Beginners' corner. So I'm not talking about "learning from scratch", I'm talking about self-improvement.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the "you must know everything to read this forum" on the door. I'm talking about beginners moves because I've done beginners moves - it was an example. You can try imagining learning arials from a book if that's what you want to imagine.



- I don't care how many people do MJ, I'm not at all involved in the business. Their retention rate is none of my business. I'm trying to improve my dancing.

Ok. Enjoy copying those arials from the blackboard, then.



- Partner dancing is hard. It's not an easy discipline to master, it takes effort, skill and determination to progress beyond a certain point. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying, there's no "easy route".
And Get over yourself.

[MartinHarper]

There. Right there. Left a bit, no, right .... ahhh. Got it. Now... scratch :)

So.... it takes effort, skill and determination to progress beyond an uncertain point?

I'm keen to know when I'm going to hit the limit of what I can achieve without effort, skill, and determination, and whether I've already hit that limit. If I have, then that's cool: I can quit going to lessons, and relax. No sense wasting time if I'm not going to progress any further.

Does the certain point involve cavorting? I've only seen two or three people who cavort properly on the dance floor. The rest of us are stuck in the pre-cavorting stage. How can we get past that certain point? Does it involve a single private lesson with Mr. Jack Daniels prior to the dance?

[David Bailey]

So.... it takes effort, skill and determination to progress beyond an uncertain point?
Err... maybe. :innocent:


I'm keen to know when I'm going to hit the limit of what I can achieve without effort, skill, and determination, and whether I've already hit that limit. If I have, then that's cool: I can quit going to lessons, and relax. No sense wasting time if I'm not going to progress any further.
Ahh, that's good old-school sarcasm, that is. You youngsters, you should take note - you don't see that quality of work nowdays, what with the shoddy workmanship these newcomers show.

Seriously, it's pretty much accepted by most people that improving gets progressively harder as you go on in MJ - frankly, it's not that difficult to become a reasonably competent social dancer, and as a man that means you'll rarely have to sit out a dance if you don't want to. So you need motivation to progress beyond the "competent and in-demand" stage.

[David Bailey]

A more organised person's plan (insanely good dancer though :respect: )
Scary :eek:


Also if you were going to produce the "David James how to dance xxx" dvd series, what would you need to know / improve to be at a sufficient level?
The mind boggles... :rofl:

[Gadget]

Everyone learns in different ways; Each person has a different balance using physical movement, thinking, mimicing, creating, communicating, listening, ... and a different way of retaining that information.

I find that I learn a great deal about something (or get a clearer image of it) when I try to explain it to someone else. That's why I've written lots of 'online-workshops' and try to give advice here; if someone is asking questions, then it forces you to look harder to find the answer. Even if they havn't asked the question, I use the same thing to get a firmer grip on some aspect or another.

{Eg. just now I am trying to work out the best way to explain the concept of 'frame' to a follower: in following a sage peice of advice is to follow the lead hand. It is moved by the lead and you move to follow it. But if you do this without frame, you are dragged arround as your hand, arm, shoulder, body, feet all move in a cascading action. The hand stops and the rest of the body piles into it as the arm then stops, then the shoulder, then the feet. :sick: How do I explain that the lead is trying to move the 'core' of the follower (just behind the belly button) by moving the hand? That the hand can connected to the whole body without thought?
I've been taught 'frame' stuff by some of the most respected and reveared teachers; I know what it is, I know how to apply it within my self, I know how to use my partner's frame, I know how they taught it. But how would I teach it?}

[David Bailey]

If you're talking to fellow spanish learners, if you have half a brain, you'll realise you've said something wrong and speak to someone who knows better about it.
:confused: Exactly how will you learn you've done something wrong? If you're both learning, who's to say what's "right" in sentence construction, prononciation, grammar, and so on?

Re: DVDs

Which would be pretty useless without occasional classes to wander into, and freestyle to practise at.
Exactly where did I say only use books etc. I didn't even talk about books - I'm talking about structure, organisation, planning. In fact, I'm not talking about delivery at all...


I'm sorry, I must have missed the "you must know everything to read this forum" on the door.
:rofl: OK, hold on, I'll just nip out and put the sign up then :)


I'm talking about beginners moves because I've done beginners moves - it was an example. You can try imagining learning arials from a book if that's what you want to imagine.
...
Ok. Enjoy copying those arials from the blackboard, then.
Again with the "book", "blackboard" etc. - and again, I'm not talking about delivery.


And Get over yourself.
Next on my list. :innocent:

[Terpsichorea]

best pearl of wisdom i can offer is don`t try to do too much too soon....i did 15-20 beginners classes before going to an intermediate class....make sure you master the beginners moves and are able to dance them well....and because a majority of intermediate moves are a variation of the beginners moves i now find it very easy to pick up,rip off,steal,borrow,learn new intermediate moves.....and most of all have a ball and enjoy yourself.....oh and as i`ve officially banned the word SORRY at ISH now.....don`t keep apologising....making mistakes is all part of the learning curve......

Amen, absolutely to this. I have been guilty of trying to stuff to much into my brain too soon. Learning from Ceroc DVDs is a guilty vice of mine, the problem being that you learn moves in isolation, and so don't really get the chance to practice them as much as you should with a partner. It was particularly acute last week, when a lady I was dancing with started giggling. She remarked on how serious I looked with the effort of concentration! It's probably not much fun trying to dance with someone who looks as if they're piloting a light aircraft through a thunderstorm, so I lightened up and stopped trying to remember routines I'd learned from the DVD.

Another weakness is inventing my own footwork...which isn't fair on my partner....:blush:

[David Bailey]

It was particularly acute last week, when a lady I was dancing with started giggling. She remarked on how serious I looked with the effort of concentration!
Been there, done that - I was Mr Concentration Face for the first year or two I learnt.


Another weakness is inventing my own footwork...which isn't fair on my partner....:blush:
Errr... why not? She shouldn't be following your feet.

[Terpsichorea]

Been there, done that - I was Mr Concentration Face for the first year or two I learnt.


Errr... why not? She shouldn't be following your feet.

I always feel vaguely (and this is probably wrong) that it looks a bit messy if she's not following what I'm doing. For example, if I throw in some basic Salsa footwork, or a modification of it, it feels like it spoils the symmetry of the dance if she doesn't follow, or worse, looks flummoxed by it.

I am learning not to frown with concentration....but it takes time!

[David Bailey]

I always feel vaguely (and this is probably wrong) that it looks a bit messy if she's not following what I'm doing.
"Following" is not "mirroring" :)

[Terpsichorea]

"Following" is not "mirroring" :)

Nice distinction! :grin:

[Lynn]

I probably should be more structured in my learning, to be honest its been more dominated by availability of resources - in particular classes and access to teachers - than any set plan.

So say I decide I want to work on something - if there are no classes or teachers available locally, I have to wait til I have the opportunity to do a workshop/private when a teacher is here or I am away.

I guess that has shaped my learning plans more than anything else. And I don't see any way round it, I can't afford to travel to somewhere simply to attend one workshop or have one private.

Its got me thinking though. I had rough dance goals for this year, start to learn WCS and get a practice partner - and am making gradual progress with both of those. I guess I should try to have a more focused learning plan.

[angelblue]

BE A DANCE TART!!! DANCE WITH AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN

[Terpsichorea]

BE A DANCE TART!!! DANCE WITH AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN

I do that as much as possible, but by the end of the evening, I start getting that familiar feeling of burnout, my attention starts wandering, I begin to recycle the same moves again and again...and it's time to go home.

[Ghost]

Just adding a bit more to the private lesson concept. The huge benefit at this point is that you can basically go to a teacher who's good at xxx and book a lesson to improve your xxx (or if you're completely foxed, you can say you want to improve your dancing - they should be able to work out what that means by talking to you, especially if it's your regular teacher.)

The private lesson then basically gives you your own personalised lesson plan for the next few months on how best to improve it. :clap: They'll go through the concepts, motions and exercises at the time. You then go away with the video and work on it.

I'd advise trying one and see if that method of learning works for you. If it doesn't, well you can always try "having fun" :na: :wink:

(NB you'll probably need to supply your own video /dvd recorder, camera, mobile phone etc)

[Lynn]

Just adding a bit more to the private lesson concept. The huge benefit at this point is that you can basically go to a teacher who's good at xxx and book a lesson to improve your xxx (or if you're completely foxed, you can say you want to improve your dancing - they should be able to work out what that means by talking to you, especially if it's your regular teacher.)

The private lesson then basically gives you your own personalised lesson plan for the next few months on how best to improve it. :clap: They'll go through the concepts, motions and exercises at the time. Yep, private lessons can give plenty of things to work on. I would recommend having an idea of what you want to work on before you go for your lesson, and sometimes in selecting who to have a lesson with. Makes it much easier for the teacher if you have some idea - rather than 'I want to dance better'. I booked a private once at a Jivetime weekender and was given a handout before the lesson with tips for how to get the most out of a private lesson, which was a fab idea. (I already knew what I wanted to work on, and selected, with the help of Minnie, a teacher that would be able to give me focused advice on that subject).

Privates are expensive, but in terms of what you can get out of them, well worth it IMO - if you select a teacher that is appropriate and if you have some idea what you want to get out of the private.

[David Bailey]

Yep, private lessons can give plenty of things to work on. I would recommend having an idea of what you want to work on before you go for your lesson, and sometimes in selecting who to have a lesson with.
What, you mean, like a... learning plan? :innocent:

Crazy idea, it'll never catch on.

[Ghost]

What, you mean, like a... learning plan? :innocent:

Carzy idea, it'll never catch on.
:rofl:

Ok
Put these in order of priority

Beginner moves
Balance
Timing
Posture
Connection
Frame
Musicality
Fluidity
Intermediate Moves
Specific Advanced Moves


So let's just say you're top 3 were

Connection
Posture
And how to lead a Corkscrew

Let's say for arguements sake that you're really good at connection but clueless about how to lead a corkscrew (but really want to)

Now you've got a choice. You can either focus on the the one(s) at the top of the list. So for Connection you might try Amir or Franck.

Or you can focus on the one(s) you're bad at, so for the corkscrew you might try Val and Dave.

I'd suggest that "dance" is simply too big for someone to become good at everything. So you have to chose how focussed you want to be. A Learning Plan is basically a way of stating what you focus is and a way to help you decide where you want to apply your resources (time, energy, money etc). So you may feel that floorcraft is important, but that you're not interested in going beyond your current level.

I think it was Julia Cameron who said
"You can have anything you want, but you can't have everything"

It also let's you further divide things - so say you want to improve Connection

To the music
To you partner
Through hand hold
Through body leads
Through frame

So let's say you want to concentrate on connection through frame
Then look at different ways you could practice

Stationary
Leading walks
Leading ochos

So say you lke leading walks because it's going to be practical in freestyle too

Then look at ways to work on connection in walks with frame

Being able to maintain it with your eyes closed
Being able to maintain it with her eyes closed
Being able to maintain it with both your eyes closed
etc etc

And again you can prioritise.these

So you may end up with

Learning Plan
Aim: Improve connection

Specifically through frame

Practice leading walks with a partner in frame

Being able to maintain it with her eyes closed
Being able to maintain it with your eyes closed
Being able to maintain it with both your eyes closed


In freestyle lead walks in frame focussing on connection

[Lynn]

What, you mean, like a... learning plan? :innocent:

Carzy idea, it'll never catch on.I like Carzy ideas. :D

[David Bailey]

I like Carzy ideas. :D

:whistle:

[Jhutch]

Not sure that what i am able to do would persuade anyone that my way of learning is the best way:blush: but i normally trying to learn/improve on thing each time i go dancing. Have tried the approach where i try and make a conscious effort to improve everything at the same time but surprisingly enough that didn't work:rolleyes:

[Mr Cool]

Learn to know your centre and stay balanced :wink:

Never look down :cool:

Get up and dance dance dance :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


:waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

[Phil_dB]

Do you have one?

If so, how's it organised?

Any tips? Do's and don't's?

A slow afternoon at work giving me chance to read through old threads, I thought I'd reply to this one, any good criticism/advice appreciated as always :nice:

My main plan is to dance as much as possible, - but in order to improve I do have a bit of a plan in my head. This I'm sure will change in time, but this is where I am at the moment:

(Maybe you will think i'm taking this far too seriously! In my defence I am finding that the more I improve the more fun I am having! :D



Goal
My goal is have the freedom to move & dance as an automatic reaction to the music, my partner & how I'm feeling, - without having to concentrate or think too hard.



#1
Using movements instead of moves.

Learn new moves from classes, workshops & watching, - then continually trying to improve my execution of them, & practicing them so they become second nature during freestyle.

Learn lots of variations of moves I know as a way of understanding the different components of the moves & how they can be changed & interlinked with other moves/movements.

Watching others dance.

Trying to use certain individual components of a move instead of the entire move (finding this difficult to learn myself, I've only managed to do this by copying others so far).

Relax into the dance, feel the music & try not to think too hard.




#2
Footwork

Keeping my feet close to the floor when moving.

Keep my feet close to each other as they pass (when stepping etc).

Practice footwork steps of moves I know at random times during the day with my invisible Follow!

Get friend to video me dancing.

Ongoing awareness of how big my steps are.

Awareness of always transferring my weight when stepping.

Awareness of where both myself & partner are travelling, avoid doing slotted moves in rotation.




#3
Posture

Reading putting into practice various advice from this forum.

Feedback.

Get friend to video me dancing.




#4
Lead

Advice from forums, DVDs and private 121 tuition.

Feedback from social follows & teachers.




#5
Leading & feeling the weight transferance of my partner

Learning off my "own bat".

Snippets of advice from online resources and class instruction.

Trying to find a workshops that will help me with this.




#6
Musicalilty

Trying to find a workshop.

Thinking less about moves & more about music & movements - this goal is somewhat dependent on #1.

Putting in the odd request to the DJ of tracks I love dancing to.




#7
Fluidity, style & smoothness.

Watching other dancers I'd love to dance like & plagurising bits of their dancing that I like.

Get friend to video me dancing.




#8
Spinning

Read advice & watch videos on technique.

Practice on my own at random times during the day when appropriate.

Adding more free spins into my freestyle.

Video playback.