PDA

View Full Version : Beginner Moves Query



the whale
9th-March-2007, 10:36 AM
Hi

I've been going to classes for about 6 weeks now. I've only started dancing in freestyle the past 2 weeks as they were * too fast / too scary / they might all laugh at me / I'm rubbish (* delete as appropriate). Also, I seemed to have a problem... that whenever anyone uttered the dreaded word freestyle, my mind went completely blank (not that far a journey!) and I couldn't think of one move far less stringing a few together! But last week I decided to give it a go... and I enjoyed it! I still have the occasional blank episode, but I think I'm improving (it doesn't fill me with dread anymore!). So, last night I'm working on the smile (difficult 'cause I'm a miserable sod!), trying to keep eye contact, doing my best to lead(?) and even adding a few grunts which may pass as conversation. I'm getting cocky, so, purely in the interest of floorcraft and my partners safety, I look around the floor...

I'm the only one in the entire room (as far as I could see) who's doing beginner moves!?! Now, being a bit of a conspiracy theorist, I think sh1t, what have I done? Have I unwittingly crossed a barrier that should never be crossed? I heard a commedian once say that you never see baby pidgeons... is there a room somewhere full of baby pidgeons and people who endlessly repeat beginner moves?

Seriously, is this not the done thing? I'm now a bit worried about how to take the next step. What about parties or weekenders? Do you have to be a set standard before you go? Are there certain moves which should not be completed outside a beginner class?

Thoughts / advice / ridicule please.

D

DD+
9th-March-2007, 10:47 AM
Well we were all beginners once and i remember feeling just how you are now (still feel like that sometimes) and i personally would rather dance with someone who does beginners moves comfortably than someone who tries intermediate moves and does them badly. So keep trying that freestyle and try not to worry about what other people are thinking! it will all come together in the end!
Best of luck

Jamie
9th-March-2007, 10:51 AM
My repertoire consists of many beginners moves... Mainly my moves stem off beginners moves... Hell there are some people who don't do "moves" they just dance.. Don't fret about it, I know everyone does, I did when I first started! You go into man-mode and think I need big show off moves to impress the ladies...

I tell you right now what is going to happen... You'll learn some intermediate moves, you'll learn enough to fill a full track, you wont dance beginners moves for at least a month thinking this is some sort of achievement then, you'll get bored and start to dance!

You'll learn in time ladies don't want big flashy moves (there was a poll somewhere) and speaking as a follow, I prefer my lead to dance beginners moves well, than lots of intermediate and advanced moves horribly...

Everyone does it, I did.. It's the inevitable :devil: Prove me wrong... Please?

StokeBloke
9th-March-2007, 10:55 AM
Hi

I've been going to classes for about 6 weeks now. I've only started dancing in freestyle the past 2 weeks as they were * too fast / too scary / they might all laugh at me / I'm rubbish (* delete as appropriate). Also, I seemed to have a problem... that whenever anyone uttered the dreaded word freestyle, my mind went completely blank (not that far a journey!) and I couldn't think of one move far less stringing a few together! But last week I decided to give it a go... and I enjoyed it! I still have the occasional blank episode, but I think I'm improving (it doesn't fill me with dread anymore!). So, last night I'm working on the smile (difficult 'cause I'm a miserable sod!), trying to keep eye contact, doing my best to lead(?) and even adding a few grunts which may pass as conversation. I'm getting cocky, so, purely in the interest of floorcraft and my partners safety, I look around the floor...

I'm the only one in the entire room (as far as I could see) who's doing beginner moves!?! Now, being a bit of a conspiracy theorist, I think sh1t, what have I done? Have I unwittingly crossed a barrier that should never be crossed? I heard a commedian once say that you never see baby pidgeons... is there a room somewhere full of baby pidgeons and people who endlessly repeat beginner moves?

Seriously, is this not the done thing? I'm now a bit worried about how to take the next step. What about parties or weekenders? Do you have to be a set standard before you go? Are there certain moves which should not be completed outside a beginner class?

Thoughts / advice / ridicule please.

D
You are being far too hard on yourself with no good reason either. A nice set of well led beginner moves is just fine. It sounds like your a considerate dancer, or this wouldn't be worrying you. You want to lead an interesting dance for your partner, and that's to be applauded. But believe me when I say that most follows would be happy to be led through a dance consisting of beginner moves that were clear and nicely led, than a being yanked through a dance by someone trying to do flashy stuff that was beyond them.

You say you have been dancing six weeks, is this at the same venue. Because if it is, many of the dancers there will have seen you on your first night and will know you are still getting to grips with Ceroc. Don't panic. We are a forgiving bunch. You may have noticed at your classes that there is often more ladies than men. You are a rare commodity, a lead who is sticking at it and looking like someone who will become a regular dancer at that venue. The ladies will love having you there to dance with and I am sure these thoughts your having are completely of your own making. Relax, it's meant to be fun remember :wink:

If you are worried about your abilities, stay around for the freestyle and ask the Taxi dancers and the teacher to dance - you can ask them more than once a night too. So make full use of them; but certainly don't go home half way through. They are there exactly for this reason. It will be a pleasure for them to help you. Taxi dancers are chosen for their kind nature and helpful, happy attitude (as well as their ability to dance). :grin:

The male taxi dancers will be happy to discuss these feelings with you. It is something that most leads go through when they start dancing. Stick at it, I promise you it dissolves away with a few more weeks of practice. Then you can start to worry about something else :D

Just stick at it, and feel free to come here and ask millions of questions....

Happy dancing, Stokie :hug:

dave the scaffolder
9th-March-2007, 10:57 AM
Do begginers moves well and you will dance all night long. Try not to worry about your moves, smile relax and enjoy it and you will gain more confidence as time goes by. A confident dancer doing begginer moves is better than an experienced dances doing more advanced moves badly.

It may be hard to believe but most of the ladies on this forum will help you out in any way they can. If they help you you will inprove and dance with them for years to come most people on this forum are here for the dancing and any nastiness seen on other threads will blow over and niceness will prevail eventually. All the best dts xxx

Double Trouble
9th-March-2007, 10:59 AM
I heard a commedian once say that you never see baby pidgeons... is there a room somewhere full of baby pidgeons and people who endlessly repeat beginner moves?

This is no help to you whatsoever, but I just wanted to let you know I love reading your posts.

You have yourself a forum stalker. :love: :love: :love: and her name is DT.

dave the scaffolder
9th-March-2007, 11:01 AM
This is no help to you whatsoever, but I just wanted to let you know I love reading your posts.

You have yourself a forum stalker. :love: :love: :love: and her name is DT.

For gods sake take up karate or long distance running. Prefrably both.

Double trouble leave the poor young vunrable man alone.

the whale
9th-March-2007, 11:05 AM
For gods sake take up karate or long distance running. Prefrably both.

Double trouble leave the poor young vunrable man alone.

Oh you've just made ma day!!! Young:rofl:

David Bailey
9th-March-2007, 11:12 AM
I'm the only one in the entire room (as far as I could see) who's doing beginner moves!?!
You don't say where you're dancing?


Now, being a bit of a conspiracy theorist, I think sh1t, what have I done? Have I unwittingly crossed a barrier that should never be crossed?
They're all just waiting for you to look at them, and then they go into Crazy Move Mode. When you're not looking, they're all doing beginner moves. How's that for a conspiracy? :wink:


Seriously, is this not the done thing?
It's a typical early-intermediate fallacy to believe that "complexity = better dancing". Unfortunately, some people never lose that fallacy, which is why I asked about where your local is. To be honest, if everyone's trying out complex moves all the time, that indicates that the level of dancing actually isn't all that high.

Anyway, in case you're still wondering, the answer is: lead the move well, and the parter won't care how "advanced" it is.

I reckon, in a normal dance, I use about 4-5 recognisable "moves", some of which are beginners - e.g. return - and some of which aren't - e.g. Columbian. Most of the rest of the dance is just "making it up as I go" steps. Hey. it works for me.


I'm now a bit worried about how to take the next step. What about parties or weekenders? Do you have to be a set standard before you go?
I wish... :na:

Seriously, no of course not - although my comments in the "Weekender experience" thread apply to a lesser degree to freestyles also I think.


Are there certain moves which should not be completed outside a beginner class?
No.

Although personally, there are some moves I think are Naff Beyond Measure And Should Be Banned - Pretzel, Catapult, Archie Cronin Whatsit. Are those beginner moves?

the whale
9th-March-2007, 11:19 AM
Thanks for the input.

I dance in Perth. I think it's a fairly typical venue, where we are outnumbered, and I have received requests to dance.

I have to be honest I don't have an issue with doing beginner moves (I can do little else at the moment!:wink: ) and I agree done well(?) they can look great. I just got a bit of a shock that I seemed to be the only one doing them!

DJ - love your conspiracy theory :respect:

D

Freya
9th-March-2007, 11:26 AM
I'm the only one in the entire room (as far as I could see) who's doing beginner moves!?! Now, being a bit of a conspiracy theorist, I think sh1t, what have I done? Have I unwittingly crossed a barrier that should never be crossed? I heard a commedian once say that you never see baby pidgeons... is there a room somewhere full of baby pidgeons and people who endlessly repeat beginner moves?It's all a conspiracy...As long as your focussed on your partner everyone around you is doing beginner moves until... you take a glance round the room and every lead will throw their partner in to a fancy intermediate move :wink:

Anyway what you were probably looking at was other dancers doing beginner moves with slight variations to make them look different, add a little variety and maybe some styling. These together can make all the difference between a beginner move looking like a beginner move looking like a beginner move and dancing.

The other thing I find is that most people have a few moves a mixture of beginner and intermediate that they do well and mainly use these while dancing, adding in a different move as they remember them.

These people tend to be dancing rather than going through a series of moves.


I'm now a bit worried about how to take the next step. What about parties or weekenders? Do you have to be a set standard before you go? Are there certain moves which should not be completed outside a beginner class?
There's a thread about beginners attending Weekenders Here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/beginners-corner/11820-how-much-experience-needed-weekender.html)

Go to every party that you can, their great fun and a great chance to dance with new people and other experienced dancers.

I went to my first party with hardly any dancing experience at all! And I've never looked back!

under par
9th-March-2007, 11:28 AM
Hi


Thoughts / advice / ridicule please.

D
Dear Mr Whale, don't worry too much about all these things and keep writing in your amusing style and welcome to the forum.

http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/intermediate-corner/11241-moves-workshops-technique-workshops-bit-both.html#post333024

is a link hopefully to a post I wrote in January I hope some of may be of use!


It only one way of learning, some dancers may also promote other ways.

TurboTomato
9th-March-2007, 11:33 AM
This is no help to you whatsoever, but I just wanted to let you know I love reading your posts.

You have yourself a forum stalker. :love: :love: :love: and her name is DT.

The pigeon comment did make me laugh as well!


For gods sake take up karate or long distance running. Prefrably both.

Double trouble leave the poor young vunrable man alone.

You two should be a double act :rofl: Have some rep DTS!

I'll try not to repeat what has already been surmised but....

As has been said many times, a follower will much prefer someone that can do a few beginner moves well than someone that does a whole raft of complex moves badly. As DJ says concentrate on dancing rather than just 'doing a move'. Heck, I've been dancing 6 months now, and I'm far from a decent dancer yet, and I would say I would still dance the vast majority of a song using the basic moves. I prefer to lead smoothly and gently and if that means mainly basic moves with a few more complex in there, that's fine with me :nice:

Edit: When I watch other people dance, yes the more experienced ones do tend to do some flashy moves, but I tend to find they do them on a base of beginner moves - almost using them as 'foundations' in the building blocks of dancing

David Bailey
9th-March-2007, 11:38 AM
It's all a conspiracy...As long as your focussed on your partner everyone around you is doing beginner moves until... you take a glance round the room and every lead will throw their partner in to a fancy intermediate move :wink:
Aha! See - I knew I was right! :D

straycat
9th-March-2007, 11:47 AM
It's all a conspiracy...As long as your focussed on your partner everyone around you is doing beginner moves until... you take a glance round the room and every lead will throw their partner in to a fancy intermediate move :wink:

:yeah:

On a complete tangent, you just reminded me of this advert (http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2003/m_jazz-p1.php).

ducasi
9th-March-2007, 12:13 PM
I'm the only one in the entire room (as far as I could see) who's doing beginner moves!?!
All the other dancers are doing beginner moves too – it's just that in their embarrassment, they've learnt how to disguise them better. :)

LMC
9th-March-2007, 12:55 PM
Everyone does it, I did.. It's the inevitable :devil: Prove me wrong... Please?
It's true... even as a follower who genuinely prefers smooth and simple, I want MORE MOVES as a leader :blush: (although I do only 'retain' the nice ones like Manhattans and 'lose' archie spins, duck moves and pretzels immediately I've done the 'twice through and into freestyle' - it would feel hypocritical leading them when I'm not keen on them as a follower.)

the whale, conspiracy theories aside, styling can make even the simplest moves look good - one of my fave combinations is just a manspin followed by a backpass and Rebecca as a follower made it look *so* fabulous at Storm :drool: (thank you R :flower: ) that I led it quite a lot :D

It's finding the balance between improving the quality/smoothness/your own style in leading the moves you know and not getting bored with your repertoire that's tricky IMO. But definitely don't try to remember everything.

As mentioned elsewhere, adding simple variations to beginner moves can add interest - for example, once you're in a basket, if there's space, take your follower for a little walk while you think about what to do next (er, if you reach the other side of the floor, you prolly need to think faster :rofl: ).

straycat
9th-March-2007, 12:59 PM
All the other dancers are doing beginner moves too – it's just that in their embarrassment, they've learnt how to disguise them better. :)

:yeah:

These days, I only really do beginner moves. It's surprising how a few small variations can make the same move look and feel completely different.

Gadget
9th-March-2007, 01:21 PM
~ I'm getting cocky, so, purely in the interest of floorcraft and my partners safety, I look around the floor...

I'm the only one in the entire room (as far as I could see) who's doing beginner moves!?!
Not much more I can add to everyone else's comments:
If you sit out and watch, I'm sure that you will see most of what you think are "intermediate/advanced" moves are just bits & pieces of what you already know as beginner moves. "That was almost a first move, bt they did something different, then there was a bit of a comb thing with some sort of shoulder-drop exit"
If I were you I wouldn't even try to unravel how they are done or try them my self; once you understand all the beginner moves, you will be learning where the common ground is and how you can chop & change moves.. perhaps with the music as well.

My advice is to ignore everyone else on the dance floor {barring collission}, and focus on listening to the music and moving your partner to it.

Ghost
10th-March-2007, 12:55 AM
You'll learn in time ladies don't want big flashy moves (there was a poll somewhere)
Here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/intermediate-corner/10516-simple-complex-moves.html)

No-one wanted a dance of purely complex or challenging moves

However (yeah there's a but sorry :flower: ) only 6% wanted a dance with only simple moves though another 22% felt it doesn't matter. Now although that put the huge majority (72%) in "a mixture", some of them meant a mixture over the course of an evening, so they'd be happy with a dance of beginner moves too.

In essence there's not a "Golden Rule" - as DavidB pointed out different women like different things. I asked the poll because like you I was suspicious of the "dance begiiner moves well and everyone's happy" line, especially as it often came with the caveat of "prefereable to other moves done badly" . Well yeah, obviously a dance filled of messed up moves isn't going to make someone's night and beginners moves done well by comparison would be better.

What I took from the poll was that the other extreme is also wrong. You don't want to try and ditch all your simple moves and just have an incredibly complicated dance, no matter how good you are. A mixture is a good place to go for. You get the 72% who want it plus the 22% who don't care - that's 94% !

My advice is look around at intermediate moves that suit you. Try and find moves that'll let you do different things. Try different ways at blending them in. As a guy said to me tonight the song's only made up of 8 notes, but every musician can play it differently.

Oh and don't forget the 6% who do like simple moves - they've got LilyB on their side :respect:

TheTramp
10th-March-2007, 01:05 AM
If you are worried about your abilities, stay around for the freestyle and ask the teacher to dance

Absolutely.... :whistle:


You have yourself a forum stalker. :love: :love: :love: and her name is DT.

Run. Run away. Fast!


For gods sake take up karate or long distance running. Prefrably both.

Sage advice!


All the other dancers are doing beginner moves too – it's just that in their embarrassment, they've learnt how to disguise them better. :)


These days, I only really do beginner moves. It's surprising how a few small variations can make the same move look and feel completely different.


Completely agree with these. I'll prove it to you next week too...

LMC
10th-March-2007, 01:47 PM
Try and find moves that'll let you do different things.
And remember that although *you* will be dancing the same moves in different combinations all night, every leader will have a different 'set'. Followers who dance "with anyone" genuinely do get plenty of variety during a freestyle :nice:

whitetiger1518
12th-March-2007, 12:17 PM
And remember that although *you* will be dancing the same moves in different combinations all night, every leader will have a different 'set'. Followers who dance "with anyone" genuinely do get plenty of variety during a freestyle :nice:

:yeah:

On Saturday I was (trying to) dance with everybody. A couple of the best challenged me with their intermediate moves, and I enjoyed re-remembering their individual styles.

However there was a guy who had only been for two classes before he came that night. When he was asked to dance he got up with shy enthusiasm and although he only remembered a couple of moves it was lovely to enjoy a relaxed and very in time and connected dance with him.

All I can say is that I have serious respect for the bravery it took to come, and that if he continues (I hope I didn't scare him by asking for a second dance later on :eek: ) and keeps his connection and his smile then we will have a lovely lead in the making.

Whitetiger

Jhutch
12th-March-2007, 04:30 PM
Hi

I'm the only one in the entire room (as far as I could see) who's doing beginner moves!?! Now, being a bit of a conspiracy theorist, I think sh1t, what have I done? Have I unwittingly crossed a barrier that should never be crossed?

D

Not sure what more i can add to the comments above. However, i shouldn't worry - if someone is that bothered about what moves are done that they won't dance for a few minutes with someone who has only recently started then that is their problem rather than yours:)

MartinHarper
12th-March-2007, 05:19 PM
Remember that although *you* will be dancing the same moves in different combinations all night, every leader will have a different 'set'. Followers who dance "with anyone" genuinely do get plenty of variety during a freestyle.

A few women say this type of thing with much confidence, and then get all shy about their limited repertoire when it comes to their own leading. I guess it shows that nervousness isn't logical. Amuses me, anyways.

Ghost
12th-March-2007, 05:38 PM
My advice is look around at intermediate moves that suit you. Try and find moves that'll let you do different things. Try different ways at blending them in.

And remember that although *you* will be dancing the same moves in different combinations all night, every leader will have a different 'set'. Followers who dance "with anyone" genuinely do get plenty of variety during a freestyle :nice:

:wink: I was also thinking ahead to the months and years to come. The wider variety of "tools" you have, the easier you'll find it when someone starts muttering about "light and shade", "developing your own style", "dancing in crowded places" etc. So if you're going to start doing intermediate moves, going for a variety will probably pay bigger dividends in the long run.