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David Bailey
28th-February-2007, 03:23 PM
From this post

Ah hah! So that's why you won't let me do it!! Tiggerbabe once actually lifted my head up!!
When I see a beginner follower who's looking at her / my feet, I occasionally lift her chin up (gently!) or indicate in some way that she should look up - I did that a couple of times at Bow on Monday, for example.

I've always thought that this is useful, if it's done with humour and tact - but am I being Evil, Intrusive and Patronising?

If not, are there any other "helpful-but-not-intrusive" tips that leaders / followers want to share, that can be done during a dance without interrupting the flow?

StokeBloke
28th-February-2007, 03:37 PM
From this post

When I see a beginner follower who's looking at her / my feet, I occasionally lift her chin up (gently!) or indicate in some way that she should look up - I did that a couple of times at Bow on Monday, for example.

I've always thought that this is useful, if it's done with humour and tact - but am I being Evil, Intrusive and Patronising?

If not, are there any other "helpful-but-not-intrusive" tips that leaders / followers want to share, that can be done during a dance without interrupting the flow?
I've not lifted any one's chin, seems a bit invasive and I would worry about then seeing my hand looming near their face and suddenly flinching backwards - it also seems like a rather sleazy thing to be doing :eek:

I usually joke that they "can look at me, as they don't need to look at their feet, they'll still be where they left them at the end of the dance", I usually follow that up a couple of moves later with a "ohh you're easier to lead when you're looking at my hands and face... thanks"! That may sound patronising, but in the main it is entirely true.

Touching other people's faces.... not really my style... unless I know them really well, and dance with them often. Then ..... :whistle:

Northants Girly
28th-February-2007, 03:45 PM
When I see a beginner follower who's looking at her / my feet, I occasionally lift her chin up (gently!) . . . I did that a couple of times at Bow on Monday, for example.

and what was their reaction?

David Bailey
28th-February-2007, 03:53 PM
and what was their reaction?
They screamed, ran away and cowered in the corner for the rest of the evening. But that's normal after a dance with me, so I didn't think anything of it. :grin:

Actually, when I say "touch", it's usually more of a brief upturned-palm-just-under-chin motion, that usually seems to do the trick. It's certainly not a sleazy stroke-the-face thing (I save those till the second dance normally).

Northants Girly
28th-February-2007, 03:57 PM
(I save those till the second dance normally).I'm surprised you get a second dance :whistle:

Ghost
28th-February-2007, 04:00 PM
They screamed, ran away and cowered in the corner for the rest of the evening. But that's normal after a dance with me, so I didn't think anything of it. :grin:

Actually how did they react as none of the ladies on Monday considered themselves beginners?

Mezzosoprano
28th-February-2007, 04:00 PM
From this post

When I see a beginner follower who's looking at her / my feet, I occasionally lift her chin up (gently!) or indicate in some way that she should look up - I did that a couple of times at Bow on Monday, for example.

I've always thought that this is useful, if it's done with humour and tact - but am I being Evil, Intrusive and Patronising?

If not, are there any other "helpful-but-not-intrusive" tips that leaders / followers want to share, that can be done during a dance without interrupting the flow?

It's fine! I needed the prompt and to stop and say "don't do that" would have been mortifying. As usual, Tiggerbabe did it with humour and that is always the best thing. I know that when something like that happens it's to help me improve my dancing and that's fab - it's a fun moment! Embarassing in a way but only in a funny way! :)

David Bailey
28th-February-2007, 04:15 PM
Actually how did they react as none of the ladies on Monday considered themselves beginners?
Seriously? Fine - no problems at all. Amazingly enough, I do these things with a modicum of tact and style. Or maybe that's just what I think :eek:


I'm surprised you get a second dance :whistle:
Well, they were cornered, they didn't have much choice in the matter.

Ghost
28th-February-2007, 04:22 PM
Seriously? Fine - no problems at all. Amazingly enough, I do these things with a modicum of tact and style. Or maybe that's just what I think :eek:

:wink: My thinking was given that all the women considered themselves intermediate or above, if they were willing to let you do it, then you're probably doing it in such a way that works and won't bother beginners.

Or you could be totally deluded and next week they'll all be waiting to jump you in the car park :whistle:

David Bailey
28th-February-2007, 04:32 PM
:wink: My thinking was given that all the women considered themselves intermediate or above, if they were willing to let you do it, then you're probably doing it in such a way that works and won't bother beginners.
Did they? Hmmm... :devil: dontgotheredontgothere


Or you could be totally deluded and next week they'll all be waiting to jump you in the car park :whistle:
Wa-hey! :yum:

Ah - hold on, I may have misunderstood that one. :blush:

I know, why don't you ask next week "Who was that chin-lifting weirdo?" and see how that goes? :)

Trousers
28th-February-2007, 04:39 PM
. . . . {snip}I occasionally lift her chin up
if it's done with humour and tact - but am I being Evil, Intrusive and Patronising?{snip}. . . . .


Yup I'll vote Evil, Intrusive, Patronising on this one.

I reckon Humour and Tact can do a much better job on their own than, invading what space your victim has mangaed to keep for herself by, physically lifting her chin.

I'd probably add downright Rude to your list as well.

David Bailey
28th-February-2007, 04:52 PM
Yup I'll vote Evil, Intrusive, Patronising on this one.

I reckon Humour and Tact can do a much better job on their own than, invading what space your victim has mangaed to keep for herself by, physically lifting her chin.
I think people have got this image of me grabbing a follower's chin with both hands and physically forcing it up against her will :rofl:

It's a slight motion, honest - it doesn't actually touch her, or even come close... Difficult to describe in words really.


I'd probably add downright Rude to your list as well.
Oh well, yeah, but that goes without saying, it's me after all.

Mezzosoprano
28th-February-2007, 05:11 PM
Yup I'll vote Evil, Intrusive, Patronising on this one.

I reckon Humour and Tact can do a much better job on their own than, invading what space your victim has mangaed to keep for herself by, physically lifting her chin.

I'd probably add downright Rude to your list as well.

I wouldn't say "rude" - it depends how often you dance with them/how well you know them. I didn't take offence at all when it was done to me. It was helpful and done very tactfully and nicely. :nice:

Additional comment does the phrase "can of worms" come to anyone's mind

Dreadful Scathe
28th-February-2007, 05:15 PM
If you notice body parts lower than they should be, tactfully lifting is the answer. Ok will try this and let you know how i get on. :)

SilverFox
28th-February-2007, 05:17 PM
I've lifted a lady's chin before....

..... but her other 4 just dragged it back down......:sick:

Tiggerbabe
28th-February-2007, 05:18 PM
If you notice body parts lower than they should be, tactfully lifting is the answer. Ok will try this and let you know how i get on. :)
Let me know which hospital to send the flowers to :hug:

Lory
28th-February-2007, 05:25 PM
I've lifted guys chins loads of times, sometimes cos they're looking at their feet and sometimes cos their just 'looking' :rolleyes:

I think I usually manage to get the message across without making them feel too awkward and have a little bit of a giggle at the same time! :wink: :na:

Ghost
28th-February-2007, 05:26 PM
Yup I'll vote Evil, Intrusive, Patronising on this one.

I'd probably add downright Rude to your list as well.
Admittedly this was my first reaction too. I really don't like people doing this to me in everyday life and make it clear that it's A Very Bad Idea when people try. However I think it's important to take it in context. It hasn't bothered me when I've have had people make "adjustments" to me in Ceroc.


Did they? Hmmm... :devil: dontgotheredontgothere
Nah, the phrasing was deliberate on my part. If you can offer "advice" to beginners who think they're intermediates (and who are quite touchy about being told otherwise) you're probably doing it well.


Wa-hey! :yum:

Ah - hold on, I may have misunderstood that one. :blush:

I know, why don't you ask next week "Who was that chin-lifting weirdo?" and see how that goes? :)
Be careful what you wish for....:devil:

StokeBloke
28th-February-2007, 05:26 PM
I've lifted a lady's chin before....

..... but her other 4 just dragged it back down......:sick:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I think I have danced with her too

MartinHarper
28th-February-2007, 06:29 PM
I don't have a problem with it as a follow. If I didn't want someone to move me around, or needed lots of personal space, I wouldn't be following. I tried it once as a lead, but it didn't work terribly well, so I dropped it.

There's an example of this "move" here:
Doug Silton - turning sugar push - Google Video (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=7926018871700847976)
4m10s into clip

Mezzosoprano
28th-February-2007, 06:42 PM
I don't have a problem with it as a follow. If I didn't want someone to move me around, or needed lots of personal space, I wouldn't be following. I tried it once as a lead, but it didn't work terribly well, so I dropped it.

There's an example of this "move" here:
Doug Silton - turning sugar push - Google Video (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=7926018871700847976)
4m10s into clip


That's the one!!!:nice: That's exactly what Tiggerbabe did to me.. made me laugh then... makes me laugh now!! Tell you what though... not looking at my feet as often as I did!

David Bailey
28th-February-2007, 07:13 PM
That's the one!!!:nice: That's exactly what Tiggerbabe did to me.. made me laugh then... makes me laugh now!! Tell you what though... not looking at my feet as often as I did!
That's the same basic motion, I use, yes - although mine would be much lighter and less intrusive than that - he knows her after all.

Anyway, does anyone have any other hints / tips / stories?

CentrAlex
28th-February-2007, 08:00 PM
I usually try and say something to get their attention in a jokey manor like...

"stop looking at your feet"

or

"do you like my shoes then...you haven't stopped staring at them for the last 2 minutes..."

and if they still don't look up...leave it!

StokeBloke
28th-February-2007, 08:03 PM
"If you look at the floor when you're dancing you'll get travel sick"!

Jamie
28th-February-2007, 08:06 PM
I've never been told to lift my chin, but been told to lower it... :rofl:

David Bailey
28th-February-2007, 08:08 PM
I usually try and say something to get their attention in a jokey manor like...
You must have a very clear voice then - I usually find verbal guidance (giving or receiving) extremely difficult in a freestyle environment.

The chin thing works for me, I think I'll stick with it, too old to change now...

StokeBloke
28th-February-2007, 08:19 PM
You must have a very clear voice then - I usually find verbal guidance (giving or receiving) extremely difficult in a freestyle environment.
I thought that's what the sway was invented for! :wink:

spindr
28th-February-2007, 08:45 PM
I've always thought that this is useful, if it's done with humour and tact - but am I being Evil, Intrusive and Patronising?
Maybe erring towards the invasive?

If you want a follower to look at you, then you can:
1. blow a raspberry -- especially if you want them to smile/relax.
2. do the evil hand slapping move (*)

SpinDr

(*) Make the spare hand really obvious and come in together and high five the follower and step back -- think of it as a cool sugar push :devil:

David Bailey
28th-February-2007, 09:06 PM
Maybe erring towards the invasive?

If you want a follower to look at you, then you can:
1. blow a raspberry -- especially if you want them to smile/relax.
2. do the evil hand slapping move (*)

I'd never insist on a follower looking at me - it's bad enough having to dance with me sometimes. I just don't want her looking at her feet, for what are hopefully obvious reasons.

So, how do you suggest one quickly and unambiguously - in a noisy, busy freestyle - indicate to the follower that she should not look down at her feet? Or should I just leave it?

spindr
1st-March-2007, 11:26 AM
I'd never insist on a follower looking at me - it's bad enough having to dance with me sometimes. I just don't want her looking at her feet, for what are hopefully obvious reasons.
Hmmm, it's not *insisting* -- but if the follower doesn't watch the leader -- then they'll miss all sorts of leading cues (including signals if you dance them).


So, how do you suggest one quickly and unambiguously - in a noisy, busy freestyle - indicate to the follower that she should not look down at her feet? Or should I just leave it?
Well, if you do can get them to look at you -- then they won't be looking at the floor.

The only other suggestion to get them to stop looking at the floor is to dance near a local adonis who's wearing tight jeans, and then they definitely won't be looking at the floor :)

SpinDr

Gav
1st-March-2007, 12:16 PM
When I see a beginner follower who's looking at her / my feet, I occasionally lift her chin up (gently!) or indicate in some way that she should look up - I did that a couple of times at Bow on Monday, for example.

I've always thought that this is useful, if it's done with humour and tact - but am I being Evil, Intrusive and Patronising?

If I remember rightly, aren't you a self confessed foot watcher (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/337855-post223.html) DJ? :wink:

rubyred
1st-March-2007, 12:28 PM
From this post

When I see a beginner follower who's looking at her / my feet, I occasionally lift her chin up (gently!) or indicate in some way that she should look up -

I wouldn't like someone to lift my chin if I was looking at their feet or I was looking at mine.

If I am dancing with a beginner as a taxi dancer I would suggest that they try to get the move in their head by using me as a guide to practise it with, and remember the movement for themselves. If I am dancing socially I would not offer advice, [unless invited to]but just enjoy the dance and say thank you at the end. :flower:

David Bailey
1st-March-2007, 12:29 PM
If I remember rightly, aren't you a self confessed foot watcher (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/337855-post223.html) DJ? :wink:
Do what I say, not what I do... :blush: