What is musicality to you how did you achieve it?

[Mr Cool]

Hi Ladies and gents I hope I don't bore you with this post I don't claim to be an expert I am just a simple dance addict with no axe to grind or aspirations to teach I just feel passionatly about musicality and dance.
Musicality for me is the essence of any dance it doesn't matter to me if its Lindy, MJ, WCS. Bal Boa, Ballroom, AT, Street dance or Disco Musicality is dance fullstop!! :yeah: :yeah:

I accept musicality is an individual thing.
For me it is simply using my whole being as a musical instrument, following the music interperating the different parts as they occour.
I like to get inside the music expressing the music in movement , communicating the feelings if the music smoothly with a positive connection to my partner, that is the basis of musicality for me.:drool:

How did i develop musicality well for me it took a lot of dance practice (i think it's a quest like the holy grail)
well i'm still learning with every dance:wink:
I am not a great lover of lessons for me get up and dance is the key.
I have always loved all forms of lead and follow dancing, choreography is not for me:devil:
I first learned Jive then Lindy and Bal boa before discovering MJ WCS and AT which is my current passion.:worthy:
Dance is dance i love them all and i think they all fit together music permiting.
I love to dance to a wide range of music the only requirment is that it makes my feet want to dance.:clap:
The journey into musicality for me was simply making my feet move to the music. learning the basic Swing shapes Bal boa and basic Jazz steps was also a big help.:wink:
It wasn't untill I was confident about moving my feet to the music, without worring about counting or performing a certain move that I developed what i would call musicality, breaks and hesitations being part of the music became instinctive.
As my confidence improved i then started to include my whole body in the dance.
For me a simple Shimmy or maybe a shoulder or head movement interperating a section of music can be infinitely more rewarding than some big new outragous move:devil:
(so often less is more).
I believe the emphasis on moves in all forms of dance reduces the practice and importance of music interpretation:eek:
The large number of men dancers not only MJivers who lead with their arms using their feet at random with little connection to the music who are content to lead move after move always amazes me.:eek:
Give me great dance music a partner with good connectionand lets dance to the music . i would rather dance well using 3 moves than become a moves monster:whistle:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :waycool:

[Double Trouble]

I think you have answered your own question there ducky.

About 20 million times.:rolleyes:

[Lee Bartholomew]

I achive musicality by listening to music and dancing to it (or atleast attempting to dance to it :tears:)

[Trouble]

Musicality is in its most basic terms, being able to listen to different levels of a peice of music and not necessarily the main beat that could be played by a drum or voice or guitar etc.

If you put on a peice of music and listen to it, try and hear all the instruments playing and listen to each different beat it does, different sounds, different instrumentals and try and listen for breaks or something special in that music that would enable you to do a little dip or stop and hold, pause etc.

Musicality is about listening and feeling the music but also its about hearing the different levels and timings of the music and being able to adapt a dance to it.

Thats how i understand it anyway.!!

Hope that make sense.

I dont achieve it unless i hijack which i have been known to do now and then :)

:love:

[icebraker]

Musicality is in its most basic terms, being able to listen to different levels of a peice of music and not necessarily the main beat that could be played by a drum or voice or guitar etc.

If you put on a peice of music and listen to it, try and hear all the instruments playing and listen to each different beat it does, different sounds, different instrumentals and try and listen for breaks or something special in that music that would enable you to do a little dip or stop and hold, pause etc.

Musicality is about listening and feeling the music but also its about hearing the different levels and timings of the music and being able to adapt a dance to it.

Thats how i understand it anyway.!!

Hope that make sense.

I dont achieve it unless i hijack which i have been known to do now and then :)

:love:when i have my taxi hat on i always tell beginers to let the music talk to them !! that way thay listen and understand :hug:

[ducasi]

Musicality is dancing to the music – that's all the music and not just the beat.

I was able to add some musicality to my dancing as soon as I was able to dance without having to think about what I was doing all the time, and had time to think more about the music.

[Gav]

I dont achieve it unless i hijack which i have been known to do now and then :)

Why do you have to hijack to achieve musicality? It's not strictly for leaders only you know?

[Trouble]

Why do you have to hijack to achieve musicality? It's not strictly for leaders only you know?

how did you work that out. I would look pretty stupid doing a break if my leader is about to try and lead me into a pretzel. How can you force a leader to listen more the the music and not have bunny dancing without hijacking.? :flower:

[Gav]

how did you work that out. I would look pretty stupid doing a break if my leader is about to try and lead me into a pretzel. How can you force a leader to listen more the the music and not have bunny dancing without hijacking.? :flower:

You've just given a lovely explanation of all the aspects of musicality, now it's just about hitting breaks?

Slowing returns, playing, styling. Errr, all stuff that you already do to some extent.

If I'm dancing with an experienced dancer like yourself and you make no effort to interpret and act upon the music, it'll be pretty disappointing.
The dances I like the best are the ones where the follower is using musicality too. While I struggle to do it myself. :blush:

[Trouble]

You've just given a lovely explanation of all the aspects of musicality, now it's just about hitting breaks?

Slowing returns, playing, styling. Errr, all stuff that you already do to some extent.

If I'm dancing with an experienced dancer like yourself and you make no effort to interpret and act upon the music, it'll be pretty disappointing.
The dances I like the best are the ones where the follower is using musicality too. While I struggle to do it myself. :blush:

awwww - Gav, you charmer you..... have a hug and a cuddle cause your sooooo sweet. :hug: :flower:

[straycat]

I cheated, and bought a job-lot of musicality from Tescos when they first started stocking it. Expensive, but well worth it. That was before they started skimping on the quality - the shoddy musicality they get in nowadays just ain't worth the money :(

[rubyred]

For me musciality is one of the most important areas in dancing. I like to feel the music and dance to the beat, the mood, act to the words in the song and play on the dance floor . I like to move my body to the rhythm and display attitude. Dancing with someone who encourages interpretation is always a bonus. Its not the moves that are important, but how you dance those moves, and make them yours by putting your style and finesse onto them.

[Gus]

When someone starts talking about musicality, I remeber that phrase, "dance like noone is watching". I thi nk its about finding that place where you let your body movement follow the soul of the music. Its not about hitting EVERY beat and break .. its about following the feeling. MJ is a limited danceform but also a very open dnace form which give you incredible scope to speed up, slow down ... bring your partner in close, give them distance, meld into one or each do your own thing.

I thi nk there have been developments in dance, e.g. N&Ns Blues, Amir and Kate's Jango that have increased the 'tools' with which MJ dancers can interpret music.

If there is a dark side to this ... its been the posuers who have taken the more dramatic moves and applied them without taste or discretion to all and any tracks. The latest abomination is the Tango leg hook sweep ... a very dramtic move which should be used sparingly and is ideal for crecsendos and drmatic emphasis. Unfortunatly (in the N West) it has now replaced the ballroom drop as THE move to use at least 4 times in a track ... even if the track is motown or club:tears:

Musicality is (IMHO) about developing a feeling for the very different types of music and then developing a portfolio of body movements and footwork that best hekp you express what that music says to you. As Paul F's sig says (said ?) ... dancing should be MORE THAN MOVES.

[David Bailey]

The latest abomination is the Tango leg hook sweep ... a very dramtic move which should be used sparingly and is ideal for crecsendos and drmatic emphasis. .
That's interesting - barridas aren't particularly dramatic in AT; ganchos and boleos are the dramatic steps I think.

Although maybe the "leg hook sweep" is different - is it more like a gancho then?

And how are leg sweeps done by MJ-ers? Fast and furious?

I find the trouble with trying sweeps on MJ-ers is that they tend to transfer weight back the the foot I'm trying to sweep, before I can sweep it, which makes the whole exercise kind of pointless...

[CJ]

Musicality is in its most basic terms, being able to listen to different levels of a peice of music and not necessarily the main beat that could be played by a drum or voice or guitar etc.

If you put on a peice of music and listen to it, try and hear all the instruments playing and listen to each different beat it does, different sounds, different instrumentals and try and listen for breaks or something special in that music that would enable you to do a little dip or stop and hold, pause etc.

Musicality is about listening and feeling the music but also its about hearing the different levels and timings of the music and being able to adapt a dance to it.

Thats how i understand it anyway.!!

Hope that make sense.

I dont achieve it unless i hijack which i have been known to do now and then :)

:love:

Someone was listening!!:wink:

Are we seeing you this Sunday?!?

[Lynn]

I find the trouble with trying sweeps on MJ-ers is that they tend to transfer weight back the the foot I'm trying to sweep, before I can sweep it, which makes the whole exercise kind of pointless...:blush:

Musicality - I probably would have given up dancing a long time ago I think if it weren't for this. While I love the connection between lead and follow (the moves are just there for something for that connection to do), I would get bored following even a fabulous lead to repetitive music all evening.

I love adding in some musicality to dancing with intermediates and seeing the little 'lightbulb' moments as they suddenly realise that something I've added has been as a result of something the music has been doing (rather than just me trying to look 'stylish'...). I don't feel the need to hijack to do this, but sometimes I do give an indication of 'hang on a second, this is a break, lets just take a moment'...or 'can I have a little bit of time to do something here?' - if the leader hasn't picked up on that indication, that's OK, we dance on. With some leaders I would never even 'ask'.

In the past its been completely 'instinctive' - just feeling what the music is doing, familiarity with a track etc. But the past couple of weeks I've been trying to understand the structure of the music more. Interesting stuff.

[Mr Cool]

:rolleyes:
I think you have answered your own question there ducky.

About 20 million times.:rolleyes:

Sorry Goosey:flower: I guess musicality is boring to most Dancers:rolleyes: (It does take time and effort):whistle: Most are far happier learning the Triple spinning Quadrouple pretzel in ten minutes :eek::devil:
Sod the music lets BOUNCE :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


:eek: Does NOBODY agree you have to move your'e feet and dance to the music to develop musicality :confused:

:waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

[Spin dryer]

Musicality is like sensuality; you either have it or you don't. If you were not born with it, you can not acquire it by training. By way of analogy, someone devoid of sensuality could go on a massage course and learn some tricks, tips and the mechanics of how to touch someone. But that would not make them sensual.

As a music student, I came across a number of people who were proficient at their chosen instrument, but whose performances could only ever be described as mechanical.

There is sometimes a conflation of the different concepts of technical dance ability and musicality. They are very different things.

There is an important caveat to the above. To the extent that one hasn't mastered the mechanics of a given dance, then this will of course inhibit one's ability to interpret the said dance.

[Caro]

I love adding in some musicality to dancing with intermediates and seeing the little 'lightbulb' moments as they suddenly realise that something I've added has been as a result of something the music has been doing (rather than just me trying to look 'stylish'...).

:yeah: love that too... Even with the experienced dancers, I love when I've done something that goes with the music and they smile... (in a 'I liked what you did' sort of way, not a 'what the heck are you doing you look ridiculous' I hope :eek: ). I've noticed lately that making by partner smile and enjoy the dance by adding some musicality in my following has become a purpose on its own when I dance.


Musicality is like sensuality; you either have it or you don't. If you were not born with it, you can not acquire it by training.

I strongly, no STRONLGY disagree with this Spindryer. I didn't know anything about music up to a year ago, never heard about the word musicality, didn't know a thing about the structure of music. I took classes, I practice the exercises, I watch people and I see that yes I can hear stuff, yes I can understand it when it's explained to me, and even better, I can now start to include a whole new dimension in my dancing.
I'd go as far as to say that it's that sort of attitude 'musicality you have it or you don't' that makes people like me who are already not very confident in their dancing and their ability to understand music, give up and think they'll never get it anyway / will look ridiculous. It really isn't helping anybody in addition to being very presomptuous and a tad scornful. :angry:

[Spin dryer]

:

I strongly, no STRONLGY disagree with this Spindryer. I didn't know anything about music up to a year ago, never heard about the word musicality, didn't know a thing about the structure of music. I took classes, I practice the exercises, I watch people and I see that yes I can hear stuff, yes I can understand it when it's explained to me, and even better, I can now start to include a whole new dimension in my dancing.
I'd go as far as to say that it's that sort of attitude 'musicality you have it or you don't' that makes people like me who are already not very confident in their dancing and their ability to understand music, give up and think they'll never get it anyway / will look ridiculous. It really isn't helping anybody in addition to being very presomptuous and a tad scornful. :angry:

As a music graduate and former musician, I would encourage anyone who's interested to learn a little music theory. I can readily accept that this may have improved your confidence. But I reject completely the suggestion that a knowledge of music theory will somehow make one musical.

You should learn to respect that different people have different opinions. I am not annoyed by your assertions and I don't see why you should get worked up about mine. Life is too short to get angry about anything.

For the avoidance of doubt, my comments should not be taken as comments on the musicality of anyone.

[Caro]

As a music graduate and former musician, I would encourage anyone who's interested to learn a little music theory. I can readily accept that this may have improved your confidence. But I reject completely the suggestion that a knowledge of music theory will somehow make one musical.

You should learn to respect that differnt people have different opinions. I am not annoyed by your assertions and I don't see why you should get worked up about mine. Life is too short to get angry about anything.

Sorry if my reply came accross as being angry, I'm not really, but I do feel strongly about this since if I had heard you saying that to me a year ago I would probably have gone 'yeah well I suppose I knew this wasn't really for me anyway' and might just as well have stopped dancing :sick: :sad: .

Thanks god one day we had Amir :worthy: up here doing a workshop about musicality, and it was a real eye-opener to me. Even more so was his attitude, he was constantly hammering to us that there's no such thing as people who can't dance or hear music, just people of different abilities (and whose exposure to music and dancing as they've grown up varies) and for whom it will take a different amount of explaining and practising before they can dance musically.

I don't think I have shown disrespect for your opinion, I am simply stating that with my limited experience of dancing I believe it is wrong and I fear it is counterproductive as it is not encouraging people to get out of their confort zone (doing moves on the beat) and trying to be musical.

I haven't suggested that 'a knowledge of music theory will somehow make one musical' (but probably did not put this accross very clearly), what I am saying is that a little knowledge about music theory will help people understand better what they hear, predict things (breaks, musical phrases, accents etc) and therefore will give them more clues and chances to be(come) musical in their dancing.
I never suggested that it will turn them into fab musical dancers overnight, very much in the same way that taking piano lessons won't turn anybody into a Mozart.

[Spin dryer]

Sorry if my reply came accross as being angry, I'm not really, but I do feel strongly about this since if I had heard you saying that to me a year ago I would probably have gone 'yeah well I suppose I knew this wasn't really for me anyway' and might just as well have stopped dancing :sick: :sad: .

Thanks god one day we had Amir :worthy: up here doing a workshop about musicality, and it was a real eye-opener to me. Even more so was his attitude, he was constantly hammering to us that there's no such thing as people who can't dance or hear music, just people of different abilities (and whose exposure to music and dancing as they've grown up varies) and for whom it will take a different amount of explaining and practising before they can dance musically.

I don't think I have shown disrespect for your opinion, I am simply stating that with my limited experience of dancing I believe it is wrong and I fear it is counterproductive as it is not encouraging people to get out of their confort zone (doing moves on the beat) and trying to be musical.

I haven't suggested that 'a knowledge of music theory will somehow make one musical' (but probably did not put this accross very clearly), what I am saying is that a little knowledge about music theory will help people understand better what they hear, predict things (breaks, musical phrases, accents etc) and therefore will give them more clues and chances to be(come) musical in their dancing.
I never suggested that it will turn them into fab musical dancers overnight, very much in the same way that taking piano lessons won't turn anybody into a Mozart.

:yeah:

Thanks. I agree with all that.

[Trouble]

Someone was listening!!:wink:

Are we seeing you this Sunday?!?

of course. DTS and myself will be there.!! (25th) and looking forward to it. xx

[Lynn]

I'm afraid I would have come back with the 'I strongly don't agree' to your comments too Spin dryer.


You should learn to respect that different people have different opinions.But you didn't state it as an opinion - you sounded as if you were stating it as a fact, and a fact backed up as a music student so speaking from a level of knowledge....

Musicality is like sensuality; you either have it or you don't. If you were not born with it, you can not acquire it by training....and therefore that could be extremely discouraging for someone who thinks they haven't 'got it'.

I think that anyone who wants to dance, has some level of musicality, or else why would they have a desire to learn to move their body to music? For some it comes naturally - in the same way that someone can naturally play a musical instrument by ear without knowing the names of the notes or chords - but it can also be learned.

The comparision with sensuality is good though - I don't think its about whether either can be learned (I personally think they can) - but they're both about having the confidence in yourself not to be inhibited and be comfortable enough to look a bit silly sometimes while you try something new!

[Mr Cool]

[
QUOTE=Spin dryer;343207]As a music graduate and former musician, I would encourage anyone who's interested to learn a little music theory. I can readily accept that this may have improved your confidence. But I reject completely the suggestion that a knowledge of music theory will somehow make one musical.

I agree music theory is all good stuff, however you need to play the instrument to learn it :whistle: and practice practice practice prior to even achieving a technicians standard. Dancing is the same all the theory in the world will not teach you how to dance. :wink:


You should learn to respect that different people have different opinions. I am not annoyed by your assertions and I don't see why you should get worked up about mine. Life is too short to get angry about anything.:respect:

Well said I for one would like to hear a wide range of views on the forum its nice to see posts where formites have the courage to challenge the status quo. :clap: :cheers:

[TA Guy]

Musicality is like sensuality; you either have it or you don't. If you were not born with it, you can not acquire it by training. By way of analogy, someone devoid of sensuality could go on a massage course and learn some tricks, tips and the mechanics of how to touch someone. But that would not make them sensual.





Have to apologise and say I disagree.

You hear this a lot regarding a lots of different fields. Without commenting on musicality itself, I would generally say that statement is virtually never true. It's usually used by people who are 'naturals', but who can't explain how they do what they do, so they think because they can't explain it and can't teach it, it can't be explained and can't be taught. Which is wrong.

It crops up referring to dance itself as well. It crops up in most fields. Bjorn Borg, arguably the most successful tennis player ever was 'manufactured'. McEnroe was a natural from day one and certainly did have it. We all know who we consider the best, just.

Basically being a natural gives you a leg-up, that's all. There's so much more to being a good dancer or good at musicality, or good in any field.

A theory:
Looking on from afar there seems to be two inputs for musicality. Musical structure, and emotion (derived from the music).
I would imagine with the emotional one there's an outside chance it's true to say you either have it or you don't, even tho it sounds a bit like saying "someone who's never loved can't fall in love sometime": it does happen. I equate this to 'feeling the music'. There are numerous posts on here from fantastic dancers about the time the penny dropped regarding 'feeling the music'. Bit like falling in love, every one can do it, it just needs the special moment.
Not sure about the musical structure one, but since it's basically mathematics/pattern recognition (and aural skills), I am sure that can be learned to an incredibly high standard, they are some of the building blocks of being human rather than being a lettuce :) I guess that's why there arn't many good Cerocing Lettuce :)

[robd]

I love when I've done something that goes with the music and they smile... (in a 'I liked what you did' sort of way, not a 'what the heck are you doing you look ridiculous' I hope :eek: ).

This is a useful quote as it enables me to go on record saying that if I grin when we (me plus any follower, not specifically Caro) dance it is generally because you have just done something that I really enjoyed and that impressed me rather than because I am taking the p*ss as many of you seem to suspect :innocent:


Rob

[robd]

Musicality

The Bad
* Becoming more aware over time of possibilities for musical interpretation within a track and lacking the knowledge and talent to realise those possibilities.

The Good
* Realising that musical interpretation potentially offers infinite variation to your dancing and is something that you will never master meaning you will always have something to work towards.

[jivecat]

Musicality is like sensuality; you either have it or you don't. If you were not born with it, you can not acquire it by training.......
So we might as well all give up and go home, then. *Sigh*



........As a music student, I came across a number of people who were proficient at their chosen instrument, but whose performances could only ever be described as mechanical.

I accept that those without innate talent will never achieve as much, or even reach the initial baseline, as those fortunate enough to possess innate talent.

However all individuals can progress within their own frame of reference and can benefit and improve, perhaps dramatically, as a result of training.

Musicality can easily be taught (although it usually isn't on Planet Ceroc) up to a certain point and basic classes would transform the attitude and confidence of many people, even if they were not star performers.

[David Bailey]

I accept that those without innate talent will never achieve as much, or even reach the initial baseline, as those fortunate enough to possess innate talent.
As has been said, that's true of anything - arts, sports, academia, writing, computer programming - you name it.

But it's only the combination of talent + commitment + continuous hard work that makes anyone great in any field.

Talent only gets you so far; and can even be a hindrance, because it gives you a leg up, you may find it more difficult to work at it when you need to.

I think most dancing is 90%+ work, and less than 10% "talent".

[Gav]

Musicality can easily be taught (although it usually isn't on Planet Ceroc) up to a certain point and basic classes would transform the attitude and confidence of many people, even if they were not star performers.

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

I may never be one of the best when it comes to musicality (who knows?), but CJ's workshop started a change in my dancing which probably would never have happened without it.

[jivecat]

I think most dancing is 90%+ work, and less than 10% "talent".

Didn't somebody (else) say

Genius is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration?


Particularly apposite when applied to our sweaty terpsichorean endeavours, I feel.

[Twirlie Bird]

Why do you have to hijack to achieve musicality? It's not strictly for leaders only you know?

This is something that I am just beginning to learn and now I just need to practice practice practice. A dancer who I respect very much started to show me yesterday how a follower can add musicality. :respect: Before that I didn't know this was possible. I thought that musicality came from the lead. Knowing that I can add to a dance in this respect is very exciting. I cannot wait to get to Stoke tonight to practice and 'try' to put a little of it into my dancing.

[straycat]

Didn't somebody (else) say

Genius is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration?


Does this mean a true genius requires a lot more deoderant than a normal person?

[MartinHarper]

Musicality is dancing for three years before realising that there's a "Call and Response" section the size of a bus in "He just wants to cha-cha".