Safety rules...

[David Bailey]

Expanding on the "Drops" thread, and inspired by this comment:

I have rules at our venues.

Does anyone know if there are general Ceroc guidelines for "dance safety" practices at venues, or is it up to the organisers / franchisees to work them out for themselves?

If there are general guidelines, does anyone know what they say, and would they like to share them for discussion?

[Lee Bartholomew]

Good call.

I think 9/10 it is up to teachers of the class to state any rules before class or to have them printed at the desk. I have never seen any rules of dance for any event or class I have attended.

Most of it should be common sense.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Most of it should be common sense.

oh dear :)

[Andy McGregor]

oh dear :)My thought exactly :tears:

[David Bailey]

My thought exactly :tears:
OK, so assuming woodface doesn't have any specific rules at his venue, do you want to share yours with us, Andy?

[tsh]

It may be mostly common sense, but having some guidelines for those with less sense is always a good idea. Common sense probably comes into effect with the way the rules are used.

[Lee Bartholomew]

DS or Andy seen me do anything on a dance floor that might make them question my common sense? Nope? Thought not:rolleyes:. And they claim my posts have no credability.

[andystyle]

DS or Andy seen me do anything on a dance floor that might make them question my common sense? Nope? Thought not:rolleyes:. And they claim my posts have no credability.

Isn't there a whole thread on that? :wink:

[whitetiger1518]

DS or Andy seen me do anything on a dance floor that might make them question my common sense? Nope? Thought not:rolleyes:. And they claim my posts have no credability.


Isn't there a whole thread on that? :wink:

The credability or the common sense? :wink:

Whitetiger

[David Bailey]

Ahem.

Safety?
Rules?

Anyone?

Helllooo again?

[Princess Fi]

Ahem.

Safety?
Rules?

Anyone?

Helllooo again?

Yeah! Safety RULES!!!! :cool: :whistle:

[Ghost]

Ahem.

Safety?
Rules?

Anyone?

Helllooo again?

"If a move's going to hurt me I might think f*** it and do it anyway. But if it's going to hurt the woman then I won't" ~ Amir teaching a Jango Class

Various warnings about doing boloes in freestyle at Jango.

The Ceroc Kent website (http://www.cerockent.com/html/ck_frameset_etiquette.htm)does say


Do not do any lifts, drops or seducers with people you are not familiar with.

In Freestyle:

Be aware of your surroundings. If you are in a crowded venue, please keep your freestlye small and avoid big expansive moves.

Do not attempt any lifts or drops at crowded venues.

If you do bump into somebody, apologise as soon as possible.


However they don't specify what "crowded" means :devil:

[Beowulf]

However they don't specify what "crowded" means :devil:

I think we're getting hung up on specifics here. IMHO I would take too crowded to mean that there's no viable space to do the planned move in. By Viable space I mean a piece of floor that's both big enough to perform the move with out hitting someone, and liable to stay empty long enough to perform the move and recover with time to spare.

I don't do any big moves, but I'd be exceptionally aware of anyone about me and what space there was available around me at the time , If I did.

it's common sense really, if there's a big space but you're aware of someone on the periphery of that space who seems like he/she may be performing a move that will encroach into that space (be that a travelling move or their own drop/aerial ) then it's just not worth it.

I suppose it's just down to developing dance sense and floorcraft. keeping an eye on what's going on around you.

I don't think you can say a place is too busy by the number of people there.. I mean are you to count the number of people on the dance floor and divide by the square foot area of the dance floor before every dance to see if it's safe to perform your Sway drop kick move? No I don't think so. It's all down to common sense and trying to minimise the odds of someone getting hurt. The busier a floor then the more likely that space that's suddenly appeared before you will be filled by another couple or two before the move is completed. It's just a judgement call I guess.

Just my 1.7p + VAT's worth

EDIT

oh and BTW.. is it just me, or has anyone else got the "Safety dance" by Men without hats song going round in their head now?

[ducasi]

[...] it's common sense really [...] :eek: He said "common sense"!!! :eek:


[...] It's all down to common sense [...] And again!!! :eek: :eek:

I wonder if there will be as many comments from others about your utterings of the phrase as there was at woodface's. :rolleyes:


oh and BTW.. is it just me, or has anyone else got the "Safety dance" by Men without hats song going round in their head now? :sick: :angry:


;)

[David Bailey]

OK, one more time, would any venue organisers like to contribute?

Ideally, I'm looking for a list of general rules which we could discuss, rather than arguing about how many David Franklins can dance on the head of a woodface or whatever...

[Astro]

oh dear :)



There is always one jerk who likes to show off and doesn't care about his partner's safety. Where are the dance police?

[David Franklin]

how many David Franklins can dance on the head of a woodface or whatever...Believe me, it would only take one...


Ideally, I'm looking for a list of general rules which we could discuss, rather than arguing about A bit of googling gives me this (interestingly, given some of the other posts on the other thread, the source is NZ Ceroc):


From NZ Ceroc:
Air steps (aerials) & lifts are for competitions and performances not the social dance floor and are banned at the studio. Never lift without permission.

I also found (though it seems to live only in Google's indexing, even Google's cache doesn't have it):


From a site offering aerials workshops
Note that aerials and acrobatics are banned at virtually every dance venue in the Boston area. You won't get to do these much out there in the real world.

There are also are any number of individual venues, dance societies, etc. that ban aerials on the social dance floor. Particularly in the US, with the fallout from its litigious society.

[Lee Bartholomew]

Would take one DF to dance on my haead, Though as it's made of wood, it's ideal to dance on with a bit of a polish, so if DF wants to come and polish my head before doing the rhumba on it........


Anyway, at my venue I don't have written rules. I all ways teach girls how to block dips and drops. Men tend not to do it here , but I run a very small venue and encourage people to attend other classes in addition to my own.

[Magic Hans]

It may be mostly common sense, but having some guidelines for those with less sense is always a good idea. Common sense probably comes into effect with the way the rules are used.

You're dead right, of course. However, I find that the majority of newcomers to jive-type couple dancing seem to naturally pull back on every back step, sometimes with all their weight and momentum [This is my pet hate and I will insist on going on about it .... until I'm smurfish in the face!!].

This will rarely cause bruising, broken bones, strains or fractures .... but it will almost certainly cause athritis ... after the two millionth pull. I refuse to let athritis get a 5 year jump on me, and would rather not impose that on my partner .... but certainly will do to protect myself.

I simply wonder how many taxi dancers start getting early arthritis ... that's my main reason for quitting ... so there:na:

Ian

[Andy McGregor]

Ahem.

Safety?
Rules?

Anyone?

Helllooo again?Sorry, was distracted by day job :blush:


Safety

We would like everyone to dance in a nice safe environment. That means that we have a few simple rules which we'd like to remind you about. Please make a special note of rules 2 and 3 - we really do not want to have to talk with you individually about breaking these rules, we'd rather you danced safely at all times. Most of these rules are obvious but we feel that we should repeat them once in a while as a reminder for people who might otherwise have a momentary lapse in common sense!

1. Fit to Dance? - Modern Jive (as we do it) is a mildly athletic activity and you need to be certain that you are fit to participate. You participate at your own risk and should consult your doctor if you have any doubt about your fitness.

2. Lifts/Airsteps - Lifts/Airsteps are not permitted at any of our dances or classes. We define these as any move where both the lady's feet are above the guy's knee with his foot on the ground. Any person seen doing these moves will be asked to stop. Persistent offenders will be asked to leave the venue.

3. Drops - Drops are not permitted at our dances or classes. We define drops as any moves where the lady's head is lower than the guy's waist. Any person seen doing these moves will be asked to stop. Persistent offenders will be asked to leave the venue. You can do dips so long as the lady is supporting most of her weight and the lady's head does not go below the guys hip - even then you really do need to be sure you are not putting the lady's head anywhere it can come onto contact with other dancers elbows, etc. And you should take great care and NEVER do a dip unless you have discussed it with your partner in advance or know them well and know they approve. If you do not want to do dips you MUST tell your partner before you commence dancing. N.B. Some organisers have advice for doing drops safely - our rule is that you can't do them! We have seen too many people injured by drops and believe that you can enjoy your social dancing without doing them - these moves are for cabarets and competitions and are taught at specialist workshops!

4. Jewellery - Before dancing please remove all rings, bracelets and chunky watches as they can cause minor injury or discomfort to your partners - simple wedding bands may be worn. Also, please remove loose necklaces if they are very long.

5. Strong Leads - Do not tug hard at your partner's hand or drag them around the floor by their hands (or anything else!). If a person doesn't follow your gentle lead do not pull harder, just keep the tension the same until your partner does what you're leading. Pulling harder is like shouting at foreigners to try to get yourself understood - it's painful, it doesn't work and people will start avoiding you!

6. Floorcraft - Avoid collisions during freestyle by looking where you are about to lead your partner. If somebody is in the way or it looks like somebody is on a collision course you will need to stop or change what you're doing. When joining the dance floor you must be very careful to avoid those people already dancing - the rules are the same as for traffic: those dancing on the dance floor have priority over those joining it! There is a very similar situation when leaving the floor: once the next track has started you must avoid colliding with people actually dancing while you are crossing the floor. Also, when moving around the room please walk around the edge of the floor, do not cross through the dancers and do not cut the corners and walk through the dancers.

7. Standing or Coaching on the dance floor - Do not stand on the dance floor chatting or watching the dancers. Stand or sit at the side. Do not coach other dancers on the dance floor. The only people who should be teaching are the teachers and taxi dancers - apart from giving simple tips, taxi dancers and teachers will take people to the side of the floor or completely off the dance area to offer coaching. N.B. Many dancers find uninvited lessons insulting during the freestyle and this should be avoided, no matter how well intentioned. Also, couples having an impromptu lesson on a crowded floor are a hazard to themselves and others.

[Achaeco]

Expanding on the "Drops" thread, and inspired by this comment:


Does anyone know if there are general Ceroc guidelines for "dance safety" practices at venues, or is it up to the organisers / franchisees to work them out for themselves?

If there are general guidelines, does anyone know what they say, and would they like to share them for discussion?

There are (according to my wife who is a teacher) several rules.
She is not prepared to go to the garage and get them right now but there are certain move that a teacher is not allowed to teach due to the complexity and space on the dance floor required.
Any aerials, seducers or drops taught must always have an alternative and should be shown first and the golden rule is you must always ask your partner before you attempt the move and ensure there is always enough space.
Aerials, drops and seducers should only be taught in the correct surrounding and she has said as far as she is concerned this would be a dedicated workshop.
She also went through all the warn up stuff but it started to do my head in.

[Green-eyed Monsta]

Here's a snippet from our weekly ceroc newsletter on 10 April 2006, Christchurch NZ

## Floorcraft ##

“Floorcraft” is a common dance term that means “the way we use and move around the dance floor”. It is not only a matter of etiquette but also very important for safety.

Please observe these floorcraft “rules” whether you are at Ceroc or at any occasion where there is dancing:

*** Some dance moves are simply not appropriate for a crowded dance floor, i.e. drops, walking moves, arms flung out everywhere etc [this applies to both men and women]

*** Nooooo aerials or dangerous lifts should ever, ever be executed anywhere outside competition or demo dancing.

*** If it gets really busy, you need to have eyes in the back of your head, especially with the various levels of dance ability on the floor.

*** It is your responsibility to prevent your partner from collisions with other dancers where ever possible.

*** Before you put your partner into a drop, look ahead not only to see if the space is clear now but that it will continue to be clear for the duration of the move.

*** Never hesitate to abort, better that than the risk of injury – Leaders please note – your partner will be far more impressed that you were concerned enough to treat her as precious and keep her safe rather than execute a spectacular move within a hairs breadth of her safety!

*** Make your more expansive moves smaller, just simply dance them smaller and closer.

*** Try not to "travel" when it is crowed, dance on the spot.

*** Use more close moves, simpler moves, beginner moves.

*** Ideally walk around the edge of the dance floor, not through it.

*** Don’t stand on the dance floor and talk. If you start a conversation, move off to the side.

Newsletters are printed out and displayed at the venue, and available for people to take home. Different information comes out each week, but safety tips are mentioned fairly frequently. A more recent newsletter did say we were allowed to do aerials, but only after 10pm if there was enough space and you have to move across to the far side of the hall, or use a separate room available at one of the venues.

[MartinHarper]

This will rarely cause bruising, broken bones, strains or fractures .... but it will almost certainly cause athritis ... after the two millionth pull.

Mmm, I think repetitive strain injury is the more likely health issue arising from that.
Anyways, step forward on 1.

[David Bailey]

So, no Ceroc UK safety rules then? That might explain a lot... :whistle:

Also, it seems clear from what NZ Monkey and Amir have said, that there's some cultural difference between UK and Oz/NZ dancing in terms of safety - the UK seems to be more cautious, basically. Admittedly it's a massive over-generalisation, but is that a reasonable assumption?