140 new Ceroc moves approved

[JiveLad]

Can anyone shed light on this................?

Apparently Ceroc have approved 140 new moves..............

[tsh]

They've clearly not worked out that moves are built up of smaller fragments yet.

I have 32 different first moves, all with different numbers of turns on the return at the end. Had to stop at 32 because I can't find anyone who can manage more than 32 returns without falling over.

[straycat]

Had to stop at 32 because I can't find anyone who can manage more than 32 returns without falling over.

I'm sure Woodface can. So long as he strings them all together without doing any of those distracting moves between the returns. ;)

[ducasi]

I wonder if one of them was the Archer's Comb (aka the Ducasi Comb)... ;)

[David Bailey]

Good grief, can you imagine sitting through the hell of watching 140 Ceroc moves? :eek:

I bet, after about number 18, everyone just said "Yeah, right, whatever, that'll do. When's lunch?" :whistle:

[David Franklin]

Good grief, can you imagine sitting through the hell of watching 140 Ceroc moves? :eek:

I bet, after about number 18, everyone just said "Yeah, right, whatever, that'll do. When's lunch?" :whistle:And Mikey breathed a sigh of relief, seeing as move number 19 was the spit roast...

[Jamie]

Good grief, can you imagine sitting through the hell of watching 140 Ceroc moves? :eek:

Yes :tears:

[CentrAlex]

Good grief, can you imagine sitting through the hell of watching 140 Ceroc moves? :eek:

I bet, after about number 18, everyone just said "Yeah, right, whatever, that'll do. When's lunch?" :whistle:

FYI - Teachers actually want to go to the update to learn the new moves that have been submitted - it was changed one year and not so many were taught and people said that the next year they wanted more new moves...it is generally what the day is all about...as well as catching up with people that you haven't seen for a year!

And yes there were 141 new moves submitted but only about 30 were taught throughout the day so no one would have to sit through the hell of watching 140 new moves!

Always the one to put a negative on things DJ? Good job you're not a teacher really!! :whistle:

[David Bailey]

Always the one to put a negative on things DJ?
That's DavidJames to you.

And yes, I'm well-known for my hatred of Tango, of Strictly Come Dancing, of Blues Rooms, of... Don't blame me if you don't read my positive posts, or if you don't agree with my opinions. But feel free not to contribute if you just want to attack people, by all means.

Also, the comment was what we humans call "tongue-in-cheek", or "light-hearted", or sometimes, "humour". It's great, I can recommend it - it's almost as much fun as sarcasm.

Good job you're not a teacher really!! :whistle:
Well, I'd love to try to Teach Ceroc, but I'd have to be a Good Dancer then, and I just wouldn't qualify for it on that basis. Oh well :tears:

[WittyBird]

"humour". It's great, I can recommend it - it's almost as much fun as sarcasm.


*spits coffee all over pc and starts choking* :D
:rofl: thought you'd lost yours :rofl: :whistle:

[CentrAlex]

That's DavidJames to you.

Sorry Sir! :worthy:

And yes, I'm well-known for my hatred of Tango, of Strictly Come Dancing, of Blues Rooms, of... Don't blame me if you don't read my positive posts, or if you don't agree with my opinions. But feel free not to contribute if you just want to attack people, by all means.

Attack people...I will leave that to you!! :whistle:

Also, the comment was what we humans call "tongue-in-cheek", or "light-hearted", or sometimes, "humour". It's great, I can recommend it - it's almost as much fun as sarcasm.

Again...I'm not here to be sarcastic...I will leave that to the professionals as well...or mainly wittybird! :wink:

Well, I'd love to try to Teach Ceroc, but I'd have to be a Good Dancer then, and I just wouldn't qualify for it on that basis. Oh well :tears:

Never mind...its not for everyone!


and I didn't call it hell...you were the one that put that on your first post!! :D

[JiveLad]

*spits coffee all over pc and starts choking*


I had you down as a swallower....http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=328739&postcount=51

[Jamie]

I had you down as a swallower....http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=328739&postcount=51

All I have to say to that is... Mayonnaise... :rofl:

[CentrAlex]

All I have to say to that is... Mayonnaise... :rofl:

Wasn't it Garlic Mayo??

AND Tartare Sauce - she likes the lumps!! :rofl:

[TheTramp]

Attack people...I will leave that to you!!

Don't be silly. Everyone knows that's my job! :rolleyes:

[David Bailey]

*spits coffee all over pc and starts choking*
My work here is done.

[JiveLad]

Wasn't it Garlic Mayo??

AND Tartare Sauce - she likes the lumps!! :rofl:

Well, like Axl Rose it's just a matter of taste.

[tsh]

FYI - Teachers actually want to go to the update to learn the new moves that have been submitted - it was changed one year and not so many were taught and people said that the next year they wanted more new moves.

OK, so why are the teachers so interested in new moves when most people actually learn a fairly small number of moves?

Most of the moves i see taught (which I don't already use in some form), i'm unable to re-use successfully even after the class - and to me that seems like a bit of a waste of my time.

Sean

[StokeBloke]

Can anyone shed light on this................?

Apparently Ceroc have approved 140 new moves..............
This is a scary prospect, I have danced with people who have been dancing for a couple of years and still not mastered the 18-22 (depending on who you talk to) basic moves yet :eek: :eek: :eek:

Heaven knows what this sort of over load will do to them :rolleyes:

[TheTramp]

OK, so why are the teachers so interested in new moves when most people actually learn a fairly small number of moves?

Most of the moves i see taught (which I don't already use in some form), i'm unable to re-use successfully even after the class - and to me that seems like a bit of a waste of my time.

Ah. But someone else might like the moves that you don't do or use....

[StokeBloke]

Ah. But someone else might like the moves that you don't do or use....
I also find that due to my newness to dancing, stupidity or lack of coordination (maybe a subtle blend of the three) I can't 'get' many of these intermediate moves into my freestyle.

To be honest I see a lot of the freestyle class as a more general 'here are some ways to bust the moves into bits and mash them back together differently'. This has given me the confidence to try out stuff that I haven't been shown. Maybe that's the wrong way to look at it but... :whistle:

[Gav]

This is a scary prospect, I have danced with people who have been dancing for a couple of years and still not mastered the 18-22 (depending on who you talk to) basic moves yet :eek: :eek: :eek:

Heaven knows what this sort of over load will do to them :rolleyes:

If someone's been doing this for a couple of years and can't manage the basic moves, another 140 isn't going to make any difference to them whatsoever.

If you're that worried about their reaction, you'd better not mention the 600+ moves that already exist. :wink:

[MartinHarper]

140 moves at 10s a move = 23 minutes.


Teachers ... said that the next year they wanted more new moves...

Interesting insight into the mind of a Ceroc teacher.

[Simon r]

OK, so why are the teachers so interested in new moves when most people actually learn a fairly small number of moves?

Most of the moves i see taught (which I don't already use in some form), i'm unable to re-use successfully even after the class - and to me that seems like a bit of a waste of my time.

Sean

There are quite a few new style moves drawing on diffrent dance styles therefore giving some diffrent looks and feels to your freestyle dancing.

This should help to expand your list of moves and also help with the current variation of music being played

[David Bailey]

OK, so why are the teachers so interested in new moves when most people actually learn a fairly small number of moves?
At least 95% of Ceroc teaching is All About The Moves, therefore (despite my mildy entertaining comment) it's essential that this core teaching is consistent across franchises.

Standardised teaching practice is Ceroc's USP, they need to keep it going.

And as for "why have new moves" - well, why have any development? Because, presumably, they think it'll make things better, make Ceroc dancing more attractive, and so on.


140 moves at 10s a move = 23 minutes.
If you're talking about review time, I suspect it'd take at least a couple of minutes to review even a simple move - so if you had to review 140 moves, that's nearly 5 hours solid.

Blimey, that's a week's work for me :)

[WittyBird]

All I have to say to that is... Mayonnaise... :rofl:

:blush:


Wasn't it Garlic Mayo??

AND Tartare Sauce - she likes the lumps!! :rofl:

absolutely I love the way it dribbles :what:


My work here is done.

:rofl:


Well, like Axl Rose it's just a matter of taste.

It certainly is, Note to you all, never eat asparagus :wink:

[tsh]

Ah. But someone else might like the moves that you don't do or use....

I'm not against learning new moves, or new styles. The point i was trying to make was that the environment in which these new moves are taught is not one in which I get much value out of.

In the days when I went to several ceroc venues each week, I did sometimes see a new move taught several times over a short period - which helped (provided I liked the move!) - so I'm not arguing that the update has no value.

It just seems odd that the teachers want new moves, when we are not making good use of the existing moves. A policy of 20 good new moves a year, each one to be repeated over a window of a few weeks would be something I'd find much more interesting.

Sean

[MartinHarper]

It just seems odd that the teachers want new moves, when we are not making good use of the existing moves. A policy of 20 good new moves a year, each one to be repeated over a window of a few weeks would be something I'd find much more interesting.

A different set of "Classic" and "Beginner" moves each year would be an interesting development and increase the longevity of MJ classes.

[Beowulf]

I have danced with people who have been dancing for a couple of years and still not mastered the 18-22 (depending on who you talk to) basic moves yet :eek: :eek: :eek:

We've not danced have we? I'm sure the only bloke I've danced with was The Trampster !

[David Bailey]

A different set of "Classic" and "Beginner" moves each year would be an interesting development and increase the longevity of MJ classes.
Then you could have "Ceroc Retro" sessions, "back to the 90s" nights, or "Now that's what I call Ceroc", vol. 61...

Ooh, the marketing opportunities :drool:

[TurboTomato]

A different set of "Classic" and "Beginner" moves each year would be an interesting development and increase the longevity of MJ classes.

That sounds like a very good idea MH!! Only problem I could foresee would be the switch-over - may be rather difficult for those who have just taken it up before the switch. Any suggestions?

[CentrAlex]

OK, so why are the teachers so interested in new moves when most people actually learn a fairly small number of moves?

Most of the moves i see taught (which I don't already use in some form), i'm unable to re-use successfully even after the class - and to me that seems like a bit of a waste of my time.

Sean

The new moves that are submitted and aproved are not just new complicated ones but new ones to help the beginner/improvers as well as the more challenging ones


There are quite a few new style moves drawing on diffrent dance styles therefore giving some diffrent looks and feels to your freestyle dancing.

This should help to expand your list of moves and also help with the current variation of music being played

As Simon says...lol...Ceroc has evolved so much since it started 25 years ago and a lot of the new moves are being influenced by other dance styles such as tango and WCS so the new moves are really for keeping up with the times as such as well as further development of the dance


I'm not against learning new moves, or new styles. The point i was trying to make was that the environment in which these new moves are taught is not one in which I get much value out of.

I know what you mean but it would be hard to teach all of them in like a workshop environment, at least if the teachers know them and have access to them, they can teach them when they have the chance

In the days when I went to several ceroc venues each week, I did sometimes see a new move taught several times over a short period - which helped (provided I liked the move!) - so I'm not arguing that the update has no value.

Again this is down to whether the teacher wants to teach them I suppose...just like you said if you like a move you will lead it in freestyle...if a teacher likes a move then they are more likely to teach it...

It just seems odd that the teachers want new moves, when we are not making good use of the existing moves. A policy of 20 good new moves a year, each one to be repeated over a window of a few weeks would be something I'd find much more interesting.

I agree but we don't really have any control in how many moves are submitted by the teachers and we can't really turn them down if there isn't anything wrong with them and they are leadable and safe to lead as well.

And with the already existing moves...a lot of the older ones are archived every year to make room for the new ones...for example "the gate" no one dances or really teaches that one anymore I don't think so it has been archived!

Sean

Hope you get to learn some of the new moves as there were a lot of really good and inspiring moves this year :D

[Ghost]

If you're that worried about their reaction, you'd better not mention the 600+ moves that already exist. :wink:
Um how many "official" Ceroc moves now exist? (not to mention all the unofficial ones)

[Andy McGregor]

Well, I'd love to try to Teach Ceroc, but I'd have to be a Good Dancer then, and I just wouldn't qualify for it on that basis. Oh well :tears:I'm not sure, but I've heard that you don't need to be able to dance at all to pass the audition to qualify for the Ceroc Teacher's Training course. One hopes that you can dance by the end of the course :innocent:

So, should this thread be titled "140 moves submitted, 30 moves approved"?

[David Bailey]

Um how many "official" Ceroc moves now exist? (not to mention all the unofficial ones)
It's a Secret. We could tell you, but... etc.

Actually, given that the Move Library is a key part of Ceroc's IP, it makes sense to protect it. It can be reverse-engineered of course, and there are various move library descriptions around, but none of them are (AFAIK) canonical.


I'm not sure, but I've heard that you don't need to be able to dance at all to pass the audition to qualify for the Ceroc Teacher's Training course.
Ooh, put those claws back in, you. :na:

Seriously, being able to teach the Ceroc Way is more important than being a good dancer - after all, Ceroc teachers don't teach dancing, they teach moves (as do 99% of MJ teachers of course).

So yes, I'd imagine that CTA auditions probably don't look primarily at dance ability.

[ducasi]

So, should this thread be titled "140 moves submitted, 30 moves approved"?
No, but it looks like it could be titled "141 new moves, 30 of them demonstrated", if I'm reading it correctly.

[David Bailey]

No, but it looks like it could be titled "141 new moves, 30 of them demonstrated", if I'm reading it correctly.
Even 30 moves is a lot to sit through in a single setting.
And I still reckon anything after 18 would be nodded through :na:

[David Franklin]

And I still reckon anything after 18 would be nodded through :na:Admit it, you're still thinking about that spit roast move, aren't you...?


Actually, given that the Move Library is a key part of Ceroc's IP, it makes sense to protect it. The thing is, you've got to worry about the worth of an IP portfolio that includes moves like the infamous glider...

[Lou]

"Now that's what I call Ceroc", vol. 61...Isn't that the one CD played at most classes these days?


Um how many "official" Ceroc moves now exist? (not to mention all the unofficial ones)There can be no unofficial ones. :D


(as do 99% of MJ teachers of course). And 8 out of 10 owners say their cats prefer it that way.

Like Martin, I'd be interested to see if the portfolio of Beginners & Classic moves changes in any way. IMHO, Ceroc™ have made real progress in the last year or so with the Beginners syllabus. I can't see that changing in the near future, especially if it's true that they're thinking of giving every new beginner a free copy of the DVD. (Which is also a good idea).

[Twirly]

Who invents and submits these new moves? Teachers? Is developing them part of their progress as a teacher?

[Russell Saxby]

Ah. But someone else might like the moves that you don't do or use....

and I am sure someone out there doesn't like the moves he does use.... :whistle:

[TheTramp]

and I am sure someone out there doesn't like the moves he does use.... :whistle:

He should try a pretzel on CeeCee! :yum:

[tsh]

He should try a pretzel on CeeCee! :yum:

That's one move I hardly use at all nowadays - not really sure why not though!

[TheTramp]

That's one move I hardly use at all nowadays - not really sure why not though!

You've been indoctrinated by said CeeCee?

[tsh]

You've been indoctrinated by said CeeCee?

Not knowingly!

[TheTramp]

Not knowingly!

Ah. And that's the fun of it! :rolleyes:

[jiveoholic]

So there are 130 more "approved" moves. This is in addition to how many currently approved moves?

More importantly, who has a list of "unapproved moves"?!

Is there an underground movement coming up with new and exciting unapproved moves!?

Is there a "move police" at Ceroc evenings who report the leading of banned moves?

Just think of the excitement of leading a lady into an unapproved move?!

[Ghost]

More importantly, who has a list of "unapproved moves"?!
:whistle:


Is there an underground movement coming up with new and exciting unapproved moves!?
:innocent: (look closely at Gadget's sig line)


Is there a "move police" at Ceroc evenings who report the leading of banned moves?
Nah you're thinking of tango :na:


Just think of the excitement of leading a lady into an unapproved move?!
Especially when they scream :devil:


Who invents and submits these new moves? Teachers? Is developing them part of their progress as a teacher?
*whisper* Forumites *whisper*



There can be no unofficial ones. :D

Well there's a certain truth in that - I gather certain moves have become um "appropriated" by Ceroc.


You hear that Mr. Anderson?... That is the sound of inevitability...
:cool:

[David Bailey]

*whisper* Forumites *whisper*
Nope.

What do you think the Ten do all day long? :wink:

[Ghost]

Nope.

What do you think the Ten do all day long? :wink:

Ah. I thought they were forumites :blush:

[David Bailey]

Ah. I thought they were forumites :blush:
They may well be. Only Ethel knows.

[Wouldbe]

Approved or unapproved, I demoed an intermediate routine yesterday evening involving (apparently) three new moves for 2007. It was not without a slight sense of nervousness that I took to the stage! I'm sure at least one of them I'd done before "release" in freestyle - oops. Is that against the code?

Routine in case you're interested:

Step across-half turn-offer-catapult-lady spin (or something like that!)
Short backhander (classic)
Right-handed wurlitzer (just weird!)
Secret swizzle-barrier-unwrap-man's comb (the one I'm sure I did beforehand)

[Yogi_Bear]

Approved or unapproved, I demoed an intermediate routine yesterday evening involving (apparently) three new moves for 2007. It was not without a slight sense of nervousness that I took to the stage! I'm sure at least one of them I'd done before "release" in freestyle - oops. Is that against the code?

Routine in case you're interested:

Step across-half turn-offer-catapult-lady spin (or something like that!)
Short backhander (classic)
Right-handed wurlitzer (just weird!)
Secret swizzle-barrier-unwrap-man's comb (the one I'm sure I did beforehand)

So these new moves are......existing ones put together in a different way?
And they are released........so we can assume that no-one has ever officially danced them before, at least knowingly......?
And that they are.......now officially sanctioned.......?

[Gadget]

So these new moves are......existing ones put together in a different way?
Isn't that all the "old" moves are??

[Yogi_Bear]

Isn't that all the "old" moves are??

And if that's the case, what are the original core moves or movements from which all others are subsequently derived?

[David Bailey]

And if that's the case, what are the original core moves or movements from which all others are subsequently derived?
God knows. First move? Something like that, you'd have to delve into deepest darkest history for that...

Of course, in AT, everyone knows what the core moves are - walking and pivoting, that's it :)

[MartinHarper]

And if that's the case, what are the original core moves or movements from which all others are subsequently derived?

French Jive.

[David Bailey]

French Jive.
Well, yeah - but is there a list of these, or what? What are the "French Jive" core moves?

Also, I'm seriously unconvinced that French Jive looks much like Ceroc - or ever did in fact. It seems a stretch to imagine all these cool French kids doing the armjive... :devil:

[tsh]

Does anyone know that 'french jive' exists? I spent 6 months in france looking for it, and didn't find it. They dance rock and roll there, and their impression of the rest of the world is that to others, rock and roll is all acrobatics (which is not what everyone dances). So far as I can tell, 'French Jive' was just a name made up to make it sound sexy!

Sean

[Andreas]

Can anyone shed light on this................?

Apparently Ceroc have approved 140 new moves..............

I actually wonder how many of these 140 'new' moves carry the name of a person who is retarded enough to think that they have made up that move. My guess would be about 40% at least. :sick:

[Gav]

I actually wonder how many of these 140 'new' moves carry the name of a person who is retarded enough to think that they have made up that move. My guess would be about 40% at least. :sick:

Ouch, way to make 56 new friends! Not!

[MartinHarper]

Does anyone know that 'french jive' exists? I spent 6 months in france looking for it, and didn't find it. They dance rock and roll there... 'French Jive' was just a name made up to make it sound sexy

My understanding is that "french jive" is equivalent to social "rock and roll". IE: simple dance that American soldiers imported during WW2. I'm guessing the French didn't call it French Jive, for the same reason that Americans don't call their sport American Football.

[David Bailey]

My understanding is that "french jive" is equivalent to social "rock and roll". IE: simple dance that American soldiers imported during WW2. I'm guessing the French didn't call it French Jive, for the same reason that Americans don't call their sport American Football.
OK, the Official History AFAIK is that it was called "Le Jive! or something, then James Cronin had a Damascene conversion and decided to invent a dance called C'est Le Roc, or Ceroc for short. Etc.

But I've never met anyone who's danced French Jive, and from what Wendy and others have said, it's not common now in France, if it ever was.

My suspicion is that the perfidious Frenchies were just winding Mr Cronin up with a made-up dance, to see how credulous the Anglais could be...

[TheTramp]

In Paris on the weekend, there were plenty of people there dancing what I believe I heard called "Le Rock".

There was footwork involved. But the few French ladies I danced with managed to follow my lead well enough. Take away the footwork, and I don't think that it would be dis-similar to Ceroc. Though, they still dance to very fast music!!

[ducasi]

I actually wonder how many of these 140 'new' moves carry the name of a person who is retarded enough to think that they have made up that move. My guess would be about 40% at least. :sick:
I had thought it was general Ceroc policy not to name moves after people. The only one I can think of is the "Archie" spin.

[TheTramp]

A lot of moves in Oz seem to have the name of the person who was doing them when they became known.

Don't know about the UK. I don't know the names of anything other than the beginner and classic moves! :whistle:

[Yogi_Bear]

I had thought it was general Ceroc policy not to name moves after people. The only one I can think of is the "Archie" spin.
Don't forget 'Cynthia's pretzel'.

[Gadget]

And if that's the case, what are the original core moves or movements from which all others are subsequently derived?
The "beginner" moves - that's why they are called that.

And beyond that, every "Classic intermediate" move has one piece in it that is different from the beginner moves. Hence their seperate 'class' of moves.

"From these humble building blocks, every move known to collective can be generated with almost infinite variety!"

[Beowulf]

Don't forget 'Cynthia's pretzel'.

:clap: I was looking at that one last night.. on Jiveoholics site. Now if I can just persude Genie (who hates Pretzels) or Freya to practice it with me tonight..

[Tessalicious]

In Paris on the weekend, there were plenty of people there dancing what I believe I heard called "Le Rock".

There was footwork involved. But the few French ladies I danced with managed to follow my lead well enough. Take away the footwork, and I don't think that it would be dis-similar to Ceroc. Though, they still dance to very fast music!!

I've also been involved with parties run in London for French kids that are at school over here, and they are all pretty good - they can dance, they can throw each other around and under and over and through each other's arms and legs, but they can't dance in time to Ceroc music, because what they were brought up dancing to is the much faster Le Rock (yes, I've heard it called that by the French too).

And I've even noticed some of them doing arm-jives, although whether they were from Le Rock or from the Ceroc lessons we were giving them, I don't know - but we certainly didn't teach them to do it like that :rolleyes:

[David Bailey]

:clap: I was looking at that one last night.. on Jiveoholics site. Now if I can just persude Genie (who hates Pretzels) or Freya to practice it with me tonight..
Why? :eek:

[tsh]

I think 'Le Rock' is an abbreviation for 'Le Rock'n'Roll' - which Olivier's description below seems to support. He'd never heard of Ceroc though!

http://oliviernataliaswing.free.fr/50danses_contenunew.htm#Le%20Rock%92n%20%92Roll


Danse indémodable venez découvrir une des danses préférées des Français. C’est un grand classique et tout le monde prend plaisir Ã* la danser en soirée.

Historiquement c’est une évolution des danses Swing datant des années 50-60.

Le nom de Rock'n roll devient populaire avec Bill Halley en 1955 et "Rock around the clock" (1er de tous les hit-parades pendant 5 mois Ã* partir de Mai 1955). Ce terme s'impose au monde entier. Les jeunes sont "Rockabily". Surprise-partie, décors de restaurant, voitures, vêtements sont tous "Rock'n'roll". le "Blues" de Pat Boone et Fats Domino, le "Country" d'Elvis Presley, le "Rythme and blues" de Chuck Berry deviennent Rock'n'roll.

C’est une danse très simple Ã* apprendre et très ludique qui permet même aux plus réticents des messieurs de pouvoir rapidement s’amuser sur des pistes.

[MartinHarper]

They still dance to very fast music!!

I guess from a marketing perspective it was better to say "we simplified the footwork to make it easy to learn" than to say "we slowed it down to make it suitable for the elderly and infirm".