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David Bailey
30th-December-2006, 07:25 PM
Is it just me, or do people generally think these dances over this period are, well, a bit over-hyped?

Judging from the ratio of "pre-event enthusiasm" to "post-event rhapsody" posts, all the fun seems to be in the anticipation...

Juju
30th-December-2006, 07:28 PM
...all the fun seems to be in the anticipation...

That's life.

Double Trouble
30th-December-2006, 08:36 PM
I only went to one and that was the Black and White ball.

It seems the organisers dont care that the events are dangerously over crowded and the sex ratio is all wrong. They must make an absolute fortune at these big events, why do they have to pack us all in like sardines and ruin it?

The problem is we will all do it again next year, all complain about the over crowding and the organisers know that, so will do bugger all about it.

Lynn
30th-December-2006, 08:42 PM
Is it just me, or do people generally think these dances over this period are, well, a bit over-hyped?

Judging from the ratio of "pre-event enthusiasm" to "post-event rhapsody" posts, all the fun seems to be in the anticipation...Dunno, never been to any. (Well aside from my own the past two years and they don't really count as small and only £5).

But I've been getting that 'oh here we go again, *sigh*' feeling about parties in general over the Christmas period.

I think I'm turning into Miss Grumpy though, so my impressions aren't worth taking into account.

David Bailey
30th-December-2006, 08:49 PM
It seems the organisers dont care that the events are dangerously over crowded and the sex ratio is all wrong.
Well, to be fair, it was rammed last year as well, so no difference there.


The problem is we will all do it again next year, all complain about the over crowding and the organisers know that, so will do bugger all about it.
Not necessarily - I deliberately decided not to indulge this year, and I don't feel I've missed anything.

TheTramp
30th-December-2006, 09:32 PM
I think I'm turning into Miss Grumpy though, so my impressions aren't worth taking into account.

Awww..... Won't they make a lovely couple! :love:

under par
30th-December-2006, 09:57 PM
Not necessarily - I deliberately decided not to indulge this year, and I don't feel I've missed anything.


David , not just here but on other threads too, you appear to have less enthusiasm for your dancing than before .

It is a participation sport!

and its the doing that takes precedence for me!

Each event will have its own negative points, you know the list of possible problems, you could list them all with one hand tied behind your back.... but knocking or slighting the events by repeatedly saying things like "I don't feel like I've missed anything", when you haven't bothered to go is IMHO a totally negative attitude.

Social dancing at events with whatever problems is still social dancing. Iter-acting with fellow beings is far preferable to punching keys on a computer keyboard.

Without wishing to cause an argument I wish that non participating bystanders would stay away from negatively commenting on these events as often as they stay away from the actual events.

Let those that enjoy the participating pass comment positive or negative.

But I'm sure I'll get a bit of a flaming for daring to request that the participating dancers on the forum shouldn't need to see non attendees sticking their tuppenceworth all the time in a negative fashion.

Andy McGregor
30th-December-2006, 11:50 PM
David , not just here but on other threads too, you appear to have less enthusiasm for your dancing than before .

It is a participation sport!

and its the doing that takes precedence for me!

Each event will have its own negative points, you know the list of possible problems, you could list them all with one hand tied behind your back.... but knocking or slighting the events by repeatedly saying things like "I don't feel like I've missed anything", when you haven't bothered to go is IMHO a totally negative attitude.

Social dancing at events with whatever problems is still social dancing. Iter-acting with fellow beings is far preferable to punching keys on a computer keyboard.

Without wishing to cause an argument I wish that non participating bystanders would stay away from negatively commenting on these events as often as they stay away from the actual events.

Let those that enjoy the participating pass comment positive or negative.

But I'm sure I'll get a bit of a flaming for daring to request that the participating dancers on the forum shouldn't need to see non attendees sticking their tuppenceworth all the time in a negative fashion.If I understood half of what UP was saying I'd be impressed, and slightly smug, about my own intelligence :wink:

But, I think, only think, I agree with him :confused:

If you weren't at an event I'd prefer it if you didn't comment - no matter how clever you are :innocent:

Lynn
30th-December-2006, 11:58 PM
Agree with you UP, though to be fair on this thread DJ was commenting on posts on here about events, before and after some big parties, not about the events themselves.

MartinHarper
31st-December-2006, 03:15 AM
I've only been to one ball-style event this winter - the "Jitterbug Ball" at Evesham. It was pretty good. Yes, it was more crowded than I'd have liked, overall, though numbers on the floor fluctuated quite a bit. Worth the £18, with the happiness of a live band, free water, free food, and good company, and I had some good dances too. But then I've not been hyping that up, so maybe I didn't have silly expectations to shatter.

The non-ball events have been good value overall. Let's see:
TRDC Staverton (wed): extra freestyle time, fun lesson, same price.
Ceroc Cheltenham (sat): regular freestyle, regular price
Ceroc Wythall (tues): extended freestyle time, free food, same price.
Ceroc Worcester (thurs before xmas): extrended freestyle, free food, same price
Ceroc Worcester (thurs after xmas): extended freestyle, no lessons, DJ requests, reduced price
Duke's Place (sun): regular freestyle, regular price, comedy dancing santa claus
Ceroc Halesowen (fri): 1.5hrs of extra freestyle, free food, same price

None of those events were heavilly advertised as "must-see" christmas events, but I think that added to their appeal. They were really just a chance to celebrate a bit with all the folks I dance with on an irregular basis. That's actually all I need.

under par
31st-December-2006, 07:23 AM
Agree with you UP, though to be fair on this thread DJ was commenting on posts on here about events, before and after some big parties, not about the events themselves.

True Lynn on this thread :flower:

I can't Harperlink but it was a general comment on several comments I have read in threads recently mainly by Dj but there are others who do it too.

Lory
31st-December-2006, 12:55 PM
I suppose the question is, (obviously assuming they know in advance how much money they need to take to make it worth while) how does the event organiser decide to run his event?

I admit, I've no understanding from the organisers perceptive of all the considerations and hidden pitfalls but I'd love to be enlightened on the decision making process :)

If it were me (in my current state of naivety) I'd aim for Option 1.

Which option would YOU choose?

Option 1
Make it a ticket only event, setting a maximum capacity in advance, dividing the tickets down the middle into 'blue and pink' tickets, ensuring an even gender balance
The downside is tickets will have to be more expensive and the last minute punters will moan.

Option 2
Make it a ticketed event, selling early bird tickets at a reduced price, ensuring people book early. Have a higher maximum ticket allowance than above but still keeping a ceiling on it.
The downside is, it's more likely to be crowded and have lot's of (organised) ladies over

Option 3
Sell tickets at a reduced price in advance and make the 'on the night' door price more expensive.
Downside, you have an unknown quantity of people that could turn up on the night.

Option 4
Don't sell any tickets in advance, just make the door price more expensive

Option 5
Just keep to the usual format and charge the same price as usual.

Bluey
31st-December-2006, 02:00 PM
If I understood half of what UP was saying I'd be impressed, and slightly smug, about my own intelligence :wink:

But, I think, only think, I agree with him :confused:

If you weren't at an event I'd prefer it if you didn't comment - no matter how clever you are :innocent:

to both parties "Here Here".

However if venues are over crowdED, are the venues exceeding their Capacity levels, health & fire risk assessments over looked, Insurance POTENTIALLY invalidated!! Maybe organisors should think about the potential accidents of over crowding for public liability, a claim would change the way clubs cram people in.

Do your venue offer you more at Christmas, nicely decorated tables, walls, ceiling etc. Did they offer free drinks, mince pies etc?? Or did they just offer you a higher price to get in?

Ive discovered over the years that the biggest moaners after an event has finished, is those who got the last places and moaned how busy it was!! Any one else find this?

Meanwhile HAPPY NEW YEAR

Bluey
31st-December-2006, 02:13 PM
I suppose the question is, (obviously assuming they know in advance how much money they need to take to make it worth while) how does the event organiser decide to run his event?

I admit, I've no understanding from the organisers perceptive of all the considerations and hidden pitfalls but I'd love to be enlightened on the decision making process :)

If it were me (in my current state of naivety) I'd aim for Option 1.

Which option would YOU choose?

Option 1
Make it a ticket only event, setting a maximum capacity in advance, dividing the tickets down the middle into 'blue and pink' tickets, ensuring an even gender balance
The downside is tickets will have to be more expensive and the last minute punters will moan.

Option 2
Make it a ticketed event, selling early bird tickets at a reduced price, ensuring people book early. Have a higher maximum ticket allowance than above but still keeping a ceiling on it.
The downside is, it's more likely to be crowded and have lot's of (organised) ladies over

Option 3
Sell tickets at a reduced price in advance and make the 'on the night' door price more expensive.
Downside, you have an unknown quantity of people that could turn up on the night.

Option 4
Don't sell any tickets in advance, just make the door price more expensive

Option 5
Just keep to the usual format and charge the same price as usual.


nice break down, that would be good as a poll.

Many forget, that Halls can cost 50%+ more at NYE, plus if there are bar & other staff that are working they get more money. Plus I do think the organisor should have some more money (higher entry price) so he can reward his working team from that night with a meal out soon after. So many dancers just dont apprecaite what goes on behind the scenes, whether in be a dance weekender or dance event, even special class nights. These guys & girls, well some them Im sure work damm hard to help make the event run smoothly and dont get a pat on the back. Any way if the organsors give you more on the night a reasonable increase on price is justified I think.

On the other hand maybe organisors could reward "regulars" with a standard price and outsiders/ocassional visitors with a higher price??

Lynn
31st-December-2006, 02:29 PM
However if venues are over crowdED, are the venues exceeding their Capacity levels, health & fire risk assessments over looked, Insurance POTENTIALLY invalidated!! Maybe organisors should think about the potential accidents of over crowding for public liability, a claim would change the way clubs cram people in.I've been responsible for an event (a celidh) that in the past was way over crowded (approx 900) so my first job on taking it on was to look into all this. Insurance and fire regulations for the hall was 850 - but that was seated. I took advice from H&S guys who reckoned 500 for space to dance. But at the event I still felt that was too many and from the following year reduced it to 350. Its better to have less people there, but have enough space so that people can safely get up and dance.


Many forget, that Halls can cost 50%+ more at NYEOn NYE itself yes, but not always in and around it. I've booked venues for 27th and 28th Dec that have been the same price as the rest of the year, you just need to make sure you book the venue well in advance.

But if there are other additional extras, then yes, people will be prepared to pay a higher price.

Double Trouble
31st-December-2006, 02:35 PM
I've been responsible for an event (a celidh) that in the past was way over crowded (approx 900) so my first job on taking it on was to look into all this. Insurance and fire regulations for the hall was 850 - but that was seated. I took advice from H&S guys who reckoned 500 for space to dance. But at the event I still felt that was too many and from the following year reduced it to 350. Its better to have less people there, but have enough space so that people can safely get up and dance.


There is a difference between chavs bopping up and down on the spot and the dancing that we do. We need much more space than your standard chav.

Unless the health and safety guy does ceroc, his recommendations are pointless. I'm glad you ignored him and reduced to 350.

Lynn
31st-December-2006, 02:44 PM
There is a difference between chavs bopping up and down on the spot and the dancing that we do. We need much more space than your standard chav. It was a celidh, so partner dancing in rows, circles and sets. I was working on that basis. Of course could have got a lot more people in if just 'bopping on the spot'.

Unless the health and safety guy does ceroc, his recommendations are pointless. I'm glad you ignored him and reduced to 350. He was making his best judgement. It was tolerable at 500, but we wanted to make it even better. I also consulted with the celidh band and reviewed the situation with the H&S guy for the following year.

tiger
31st-December-2006, 05:46 PM
Why are people giving DJ a hard time over his posting?
It wasnt over the top or nasty,he just said how he felt.

If you went to an event and enjoyed it (genuinely) then surely a comment like 'i dont think ive missed out' shouldnt affect you and it definately shouldnt get people saying who should post and when etc etc.

rant over and happy new year to all.:wink:

FoxyFunkster
31st-December-2006, 07:24 PM
Is it just me, or do people generally think these dances over this period are, well, a bit over-hyped?

Judging from the ratio of "pre-event enthusiasm" to "post-event rhapsody" posts, all the fun seems to be in the anticipation...


I am in agreement with DJ, my sense of anticipation far exceeded my enjoyment levels. As a relative newcomer to the ceroc scene and having experienced what the usual excellent freestyle nights in london and the awesome weekenders have on offer i have to say that the party nights i attended over the festive period were poor relations in comparision, the black and white ball was too full and had too many disgruntled females which is only to be expected when you don`t gender balance the event, the farce at chiswick last night when they had upwards of 100 people turned away at the door was ludicrous....for a company who are celebrating their 25th anniversary this year i would have expected alot better....and people will rightly say that if you don`t like it then don`t come......does anyone want my spare tickets for either berko or bromley tonight as i really don`t want to get kicked on the dance floor.......hell i`ll even deliver them for you............

Lynn
31st-December-2006, 07:40 PM
Why are people giving DJ a hard time over his posting?
It wasnt over the top or nasty,he just said how he felt. I wasn't. But I agree that its better, in general, to leave the complaining about an event to people who were actually there.

As I've pointed out, and UP agreed, that wasn't what was happening in this thread anyway.

I do think there is a difference between a moan about something someone wasn't at, just to have a moan (which happens!) and 'I didn't go because of X and it seems I made the right choice'. If someone was at a 'special' event in previous years and didn't enjoy it for a particular reason - eg overcrowding - and chose not to attend again this time because they suspected the same thing might happen, then hear that it was overcrowded, they should be able to comment that for them, it was the right thing not to go. That's not taking anything away from those who did go, and had a wonderful evening.

It might wind up people who did go and felt they didn't have as good an evening as they expected though.

Too much hype about anything is rarely good. Unless you are the sort of person who can still have a fun time, even if its not exactly what you hoped for, because you feel good and have friends around you.

Hope everyone has a lovely evening tonight, even if its not what you expected!

FoxyFunkster
31st-December-2006, 07:53 PM
I am in agreement with DJ, my sense of anticipation far exceeded my enjoyment levels. As a relative newcomer to the ceroc scene and having experienced what the usual excellent freestyle nights in london and the awesome weekenders have on offer i have to say that the party nights i attended over the festive period were poor relations in comparision, the black and white ball was too full and had too many disgruntled females which is only to be expected when you don`t gender balance the event, the farce at chiswick last night when they had upwards of 100 people turned away at the door was ludicrous....for a company who are celebrating their 25th anniversary this year i would have expected alot better....and people will rightly say that if you don`t like it then don`t come......does anyone want my spare tickets for either berko or bromley tonight as i really don`t want to get kicked on the dance floor.......hell i`ll even deliver them for you............

It wasn`t all doom and gloom however, the one very good thing about an overcrowded venue was having the opportunity to chat to people you wouldn`t normally chat to so that was a big bonus!!

David Bailey
31st-December-2006, 07:56 PM
David , not just here but on other threads too, you appear to have less enthusiasm for your dancing than before .
It's a fair comment. I've been more grumpy than normal, and I've been going through a bit of a downer due to various factors - but that's not why I posted this thread.

I've noticed that, if a highly-hyped event is frankly not up to, err, scratch (!), then there's often a deafening silence after the event, as most people are too polite to say "Well, that stunk, didn't it?" - the exception being if one or two others have already trailblazed the whingeing path, when you can then get a massive chorus of "me toos" as other people put their heads over the parapet.

So that was my point about the ratio of pre- and post-event comments. You can often infer a lot about an event by what's not said about it.


Each event will have its own negative points, you know the list of possible problems, you could list them all with one hand tied behind your back.... but knocking or slighting the events by repeatedly saying things like "I don't feel like I've missed anything", when you haven't bothered to go is IMHO a totally negative attitude.
What, are you calling me grumpy? :innocent: (and this comes as a shock?)


Without wishing to cause an argument I wish that non participating bystanders would stay away from negatively commenting on these events as often as they stay away from the actual events.
Actually, I was commenting on the negative comments made by other people. I'm a big believer in warts-and-all feedback; that's one of the most useful functions of some event-based threads to me. Although, obviously, others prefer the BIG COLOURED COUNTDOWN posts... :na:


But I'm sure I'll get a bit of a flaming for daring to request that the participating dancers on the forum shouldn't need to see non attendees sticking their tuppenceworth all the time in a negative fashion.
Yeah. You're Evil. And you're definitely too tall. So there :devil:


Why are people giving DJ a hard time over his posting?
It wasnt over the top or nasty,he just said how he felt.
I know, poor little me... :tears:

TA Guy
1st-January-2007, 11:40 AM
I must admit I'm a sucker for the xmas do's. I love them, esp the big one at the Soton guildhall. Down here it all starts fairly early (9th this year), making december as a month by far the best dance month of the year for me. Takes me half of Jan to recover :)

JiveLad
1st-January-2007, 01:14 PM
I haven't read all the posts - I can only say that the Xmas events have been great fun for me. I'm not the only one - as one girl at the Chesham event said to me "that was the greatest ever Ceroc night!" - and she was very experienced.

For me, Berko Xmas eve was top notch, as was the Hatfield Jive Aces.

I like it when people dress up.

All very positive - great dances, great fun!!

Reap what you sow!

Sheppy
1st-January-2007, 02:52 PM
I've been responsible for an event (a celidh) that in the past was way over crowded (approx 900) so my first job on taking it on was to look into all this. Insurance and fire regulations for the hall was 850 - but that was seated. I took advice from H&S guys who reckoned 500 for space to dance. But at the event I still felt that was too many and from the following year reduced it to 350. Its better to have less people there, but have enough space so that people can safely get up and dance.

On NYE itself yes, but not always in and around it. I've booked venues for 27th and 28th Dec that have been the same price as the rest of the year, you just need to make sure you book the venue well in advance.

But if there are other additional extras, then yes, people will be prepared to pay a higher price.


Sure wish you set the numbers around here :respect: Getting stood on several times a night isn't my idea of fun.

I've been to 3 large events over the holidays, all good in their own ways. Only one was organised by Ceroc and that was the most overcrowded.

SuzyQ
1st-January-2007, 03:20 PM
I've really enjoyed some very well organised events this Christmas and New Year ...

I've been to Christmas parties at Fleet, Ginger Jive Newbury, Twyford, Hammersmith and Woking. They were all really good evenings ... most of which included some lovely extras: nibbles and drinks at Hammersmith (plus 2 rooms-always a bonus); tea, coffee, mince pies and cabarets at Fleet and Twyford; cabarets and great crackers at Woking!

Also RockBottoms NYE party last night had loads of extras that made the £15 ticket excellent value for NYE (you have to pay that amount to get into most pubs!) - fireworks, balloon drop, fantastic AV set up, goody bag for the way home and the team were on top form making it a really fun night!

I think most of the events were well worth the hype and I would have happily paid more (especially for NYE party as it was organised so well and was sooo much fun).

So a big thank you to all those who organised the events - they have made my Christmas and New Year!

Lynn
1st-January-2007, 03:25 PM
Sure wish you set the numbers around here :respect: Getting stood on several times a night isn't my idea of fun.I wasn't having to run the event at a profit though, and Ceroc and MJ organisers are. I also didn't have costs of sound and light as this was part of a larger week long event and all that was included in the general costs for the week. So I could make space and dancing experience a priority. Perhaps MJ organisers don't have that luxury. I have no idea the profit margins on these large events - a certain number may be needed to make them even break even. Personally I would prefer less people, better balance of m/f and less 'extras'.

Sheppy
1st-January-2007, 04:44 PM
Also RockBottoms NYE party last night had loads of extras that made the £15 ticket excellent value for NYE (you have to pay that amount to get into most pubs!) - fireworks, balloon drop, fantastic AV set up, goody bag for the way home and the team were on top form making it a really fun night!


:yeah: :worthy: :respect: