Man I Feel like a woman!

[Dallen]

Just a wee word of warning to all the guys if you have not been to your Ceroc class this week! Those at an intermediate level are in for a surprise, because for one week only and hopefully only one week, the women are leading and we have to follow!:eek: :really:
I am just home from the Belfast class, and our women loved every minute of it, some had a very sadistic look in their eyes, rather similar to when they are let lose in Harrods with your credit card!
Great relief to get back to freestyle and back to being in charge, mind you another well known female contributor to this forum from Belfast found it hard adjusting to being lead again... eh Lynn!

[TheTramp]

Just a wee word of warning to all the guys if you have not been to your Ceroc class this week! Those at an intermediate level are in for a surprise, because for one week only and hopefully only one week, the women are leading and we have to follow!:eek: :really:

And that's a problem because....? :na:

[MartinHarper]

Didn't occur at Wythall on Tues, so I don't imagine this is a UK-wide initiative. Instead, the beginner class comprised oldstyle beginner moves, including the ladyspin and hatchback.
(naturally I skipped it, following my new "too cool for school" approach to beginner lessons)

[Lynn]

I am just home from the Belfast class, and our women loved every minute of it, some had a very sadistic look in their eyes, rather similar to when they are let lose in Harrods with your credit card! I think it was a fun class for Belfast it being the last week before Christmas. And we did have extra men this week.

And yes, we ladies did enjoy it.:devil:

Great relief to get back to freestyle and back to being in charge, mind you another well known female contributor to this forum from Belfast found it hard adjusting to being lead again... eh Lynn!Oi! That was an intentional hijack - I simply wanted to let you practise what you'd learnt in the class tonight. :innocent: And I did give the lead back to you fairly quickly!

Drathzel did bring out some useful practical points at the end - hopefully it helped the leads see what its like following.

[bigdjiver]

Just a wee word of warning to all the guys if you have not been to your Ceroc class this week! Those at an intermediate level are in for a surprise, because for one week only and hopefully only one week, the women are leading and we have to follow!:eek: :really:
... That is one of the often seen Christmas specials...


Didn't occur at Wythall on Tues, so I don't imagine this is a UK-wide initiative. Instead, the beginner class comprised oldstyle beginner moves, including the ladyspin and hatchback... And this is another, a normal beginner class, except this Monday we had the moves done in mirror image, swapping left and right hands. My brain still hurts ....

[Frankie_4711]

(snip) ... the women are leading and we have to follow!:eek: :really: ... (snip)

Did that at Canterbury last night. I lead Gentabout. Great fun!:clap:


... (snip) And this is another, a normal beginner class, except this Monday we had the moves done in mirror image, swapping left and right hands. My brain still hurts ....

Did that last year at Maidstone, but instead of going straight into normal freestyle we had a competition where we had to dance the routine once through wrong way round, then do it right way round and keep swapping back and forth for the whole song and you got chucked off the dancefloor if you got anything (absolutely anything, even forgetting to blow your partner a kiss on the side to side) wrong ... and as I didn't know beforehand what was coming I did the class as a lead - again, great fun, and not as hard as I expected it to be. Didn't win though - damn partner failed to blow me a kiss!

[timbp]

Just a wee word of warning to all the guys if you have not been to your Ceroc class this week! Those at an intermediate level are in for a surprise, because for one week only and hopefully only one week, the women are leading and we have to follow!:eek: :really:

I have had a couple of reverse roles classes, and I have found them fun, useful, and painful.

One thing I have learned is that women are incapable of lifting their hands above their heads. I am 6'1 and have problems getting low because of both bad knees and bad back. I would have thought a woman 5'3 or taller could reach over my head --- but they cannot.
(To be fair, I do not know if I can lift my hand over the head of someone taller than me. But I manage OK with those around the same height.)

My biggest problem with these classes is the lack of experienced leads and follows. Normally, a first time follower joins a class and rotates through a mix that includes first time leaders and men who have been leading for years. A first time leader gets first time followers and women who have been following for years.
But in a reverse roles class you almost never get a partner experienced in the role they are dancing. So the entire class is first time leaders with first time followers. It may be fun (depending on the people), but is it really helpful?

Luckily for me, at the end of my second (maybe third) reverse roles class I went into freestyle with Nessa. She's my height (no knee or back problems trying to turn under her arm) and she's at least as good a lead as me. I dont' know if she enjoyed the dance, but I certainly started to appreciate how much fun it can be to follow.

[Gav]

My biggest problem with these classes is the lack of experienced leads and follows. Normally, a first time follower joins a class and rotates through a mix that includes first time leaders and men who have been leading for years. A first time leader gets first time followers and women who have been following for years.
But in a reverse roles class you almost never get a partner experienced in the role they are dancing. So the entire class is first time leaders with first time followers. It may be fun (depending on the people), but is it really helpful?

:yeah: , but is it meant to be helpful, or just a laugh? At the monday night class at Beccles, the freestyle ended at 10:30 with the Teachers leading everyone through the Cha Cha Slide! Not even remotely helpful, but very funny.

The first role reversal class I did was awful, for the same reasons as above. I was a terrible follower and none of the ladies in the rotation led me at all. I wasn't really following as such, just backleading everything otherwise we would've just stood still!

More recently I had a go at following a lady with a strong lead and although still terrible, I did get better.

Monday night at Beccles again, the teacher threw in a very small reversal move that worked a treat (well for me anyway!). Started with a sway, nudging the lady forwards so that we're in a reversed catpult position, then complete the catapult with roles reversed. It took a little bit of encouragement from me to get the ladies to give a good shove to get me spinning, but it worked really well. Just a shame that it'd be difficult to do it with an unsuspecting partner!

[Tiggerbabe]

Just a shame that it'd be difficult to do it with an unsuspecting partner!
One of my favourite hi-jack moves - you have been warned! :innocent:

[Gav]

One of my favourite hi-jack moves - you have been warned! :innocent:

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Oh, hang on, I get fed up with the lack of 'playful' ladies around here. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Where's Dundee? Just North of Norwich isn't it?

[bigdjiver]

One of my favourite hi-jack moves - you have been warned! :innocent:I think that the lady stopping her spin, back to the man with arms behind her in catapult position should be "THE" standard hijaak move. If the guy is not up to being led then he can do a half spin and hijaak the lead back.

[David Bailey]

I think that the lady stopping her spin, back to the man with arms behind her in catapult position should be "THE" standard hijaak move. If the guy is not up to being led then he can do a half spin and hijaak the lead back.
I think that hijacking should be banned by international convention as a Weapon of Mass Disruption.

[Juju]

I think that hijacking should be banned by international convention as a Weapon of Mass Disruption.

:what: groooaaaaan

[Beowulf]

I found this quite fun on my Tuesday class, if a little painful at times. I got some very funny looks from some women when I just stood there doing nothing, and they were saying "you've got to spin now" and I was saying "you've got to lead me.."

Lisa suggested we (males) close our eyes to feel the lead better, it did help even though at one point an "over enthusiastic" lead nearly threw me across the room ;)

I have to say the highlight was laughing at Lisa trying to describe the moves,
"Ok gents erm ladies take your ladies erm gents hand, now ladies I mean men I mean LEADS, lead your lady.. erm I mean man emd your FOLLOWER.... .. " and so on hehe

was a very fun class.

[timbp]

I think that hijacking should be banned by international convention as a Weapon of Mass Disruption.

I have no idea of the law in the UK, and I'm not sure of the situation here (Australia). But I'm pretty sure hijacking is an offence.

As a lead, I hate it when a follower rejects my lead and does something different that she thought would be fun. That's hijacking, and I suspect under current Australian law, I have to report the follower. However, also under current Australian law, I can be held for 14 days if I've associated with someone who might have some association with terrorism. So if hijacking is terrorism, and I've been at a dance party where a woman has hijacked, then I can be held for 14 days (even if I never danced with the woman who hijacked). But, obviously, I'm not going to report anyone who hijacks me, because then I might be held for 14 days.

On the other hand, if one is held under this act, it is illegal to tell anyone where you have been for the 14 days. So my next employment contract is going to specifiy that I can at any time disappear for 14 days with no notice and no explanation when I return.

[MartinHarper]

I think that the lady stopping her spin, back to the man with arms behind her in catapult position should be "THE" standard hijaak move.

Yeah, it's the first one I learnt, and it's still by far the easiest.

[Lory]

Last night at WCS there were men over to start with, so a couple of them danced as follows to begin with, then a few more ladies turned up and when we swapped partners, I got confused and asked one of the guys..

:confused: Have you just changed into a man? oops :rofl:

[Lynn]

Yep, it was mainly for fun, not really for the reverse roles to try to learn too much about leading and following, though that did hopefully happen to some extent. There were a couple of us in the class who normally lead in beginners so it was a bit easier for us.

[Shodan]

I love dancing as a lady with one of my lady friends (i.e. she leads, I follow). Its jolly good fun and I find it makes me a better leading knowing whats its like from the followers perspective. :nice:

[Gav]

I love dancing as a lady with one of my lady friends (i.e. she leads, I follow). Its jolly good fun and I find it makes me a better leading knowing whats its like from the followers perspective. :nice:

I've tried dancing as a follower and it's interesting.
Don't think I'll dance as a lady though, takes all sorts I suppose! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Shodan]

I've tried dancing as a follower and it's interesting.
Don't think I'll dance as a lady though, takes all sorts I suppose! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Very droll Mr Gav, very droll..... :rolleyes::rofl:

[drathzel]

It was such a fun class i have to say all the ladies loved the leading and most men enjoyed the following once they got into the way of not leading.

I think i did quite well with the ladies men talking bit except i kept say ok "left to ladies right"

The class put everyone in a good mood and i havent seen so many smiles and heard so many giggles in a while, which was my aim after all it's christmas

[Gadget]

I have no objection to men following or ladies leading - I know a couple of female leads who are better than the majority of male leads. {Can't say I know of many leads who are that good followers...}


What I don't like is the emphisis that was put on the new leads (ladies) to use force to shove and forcibly coerce the new followers (men) through the moves: Lots and lots of baaad things about that.

Using force requires grip. Generally a strong grip. This remains with the person when they return to following. It also 'teaches' the (now following) men that it's OK to grip like this. The ladies are taught to lead you have to force your partner round... so will be expected to be forced around.

...It could have been a good opportunity to impart some follow basics like hand being connected to the rest of the body, following the hand, elbows not going behind the back, ... and some lead basics like maintaing a connection, giving clear signals, sharing the movement...
I think that if the class had been the same as the beginner's class, just reversed roles instead of complicating it, then that would have left more time to do this.

The other thing I rolled my eyes at was encouraging the men to close their eyes during the catapult, then criticising because they were out of alignment when coming out of the spin?! erm...? (Never mind the fact the only the best spinners can spin with their eyes closed and come out of it in alignment and on balance.) The technique for leading someone into a 'perfect' spin from the cattapult is not going to be picked up by people new to leading on a few rotations. {No matter how good the teacher}

I like the occasional fun class, but in my opinion, this class was teaching some things that are diametrically opposite to what I consider "good" leading and following.

[MartinHarper]

Using force requires grip. Generally a strong grip.

Not really. I can exert lots of force with a flat hand pressed against another flat hand, or with a hand on my partner's back, or with the standard non-gripping MJ handhold. Only time force requires grip is when the follower has "spaghetti fingers" - a problem I've had pointed out in my following a couple of times now.


The other thing I rolled my eyes at was encouraging the men to close their eyes during the catapult, then criticising because they were out of alignment when coming out of the spin?! erm...? (Never mind the fact the only the best spinners can spin with their eyes closed and come out of it in alignment and on balance.) The technique for leading someone into a 'perfect' spin from the catapult is not going to be picked up by people new to leading on a few rotations.

I wasn't there, but if many of the guys were spinning badly during the catapult, then it seems reasonable for the teacher to point this out, ask the guys to try and concentrate on that aspect, and perhaps give some pointers for how to achieve better results.