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Gus
17th-December-2006, 09:47 PM
Curious. What is the public perception about the need for instructors to be trained. I still find it strange that dancers can be on the floor one week and then training others the following. Having been through the Ceroc training and know a fair bit about Blitz’s teacher training. No matter how good a dancer is, the walk from the dance floor to the stage is not one of a few metre or so … the distance should include understanding how to communicate, demonstrate, structure lessons, understand what dancers can understand etc etc.

How many non-trained teachers can actually teach? There will always be exceptions but my view is (no ODA here) no-one should stand on stage unless they have a formal dance background, have training experience, know the MJ syllabus and (most importantly) know how to teach dance to non dancers, well at least some of the above, they should stay on the dance floor and off the stage.

OK … I know that’s a bit black and white. So an alternative line. As long as teachers don’t actually damage the dancers, but keep them entertained … bring them on. Maybe it should be more about having more people have fun .. and the main thing that is holding that back is the limit of teachers out there.

I suppose its easy to diss the need for being qualified. Most people can think of a ‘bad’ trained instructor. However, I would think that the better someone is trained the more likely they are to do a good job on stage.

What do you think?

Dreadful Scathe
18th-December-2006, 09:44 AM
Coming from a training background I am well aware that not everyone that can do something can teach it, but some that can only do something fairly well can teach brilliantly and inspire others. Also, just because people can teach one thing well doesn't mean they can teach something else well.

As far as preparing someone to teach dance, they need to have some sort of formal background and some sort of ability to teach - some sort of formal test or qualification is a good place to start. Thats not to say everyone needs such training to be good, some people just ARE good , but for the paying public - its nice to see some background there.

Thats the thing though , as a member of the "public" Im more likely to go by reputation than anthing else, especially as Im aware that even WITH qualifications you don't always get the best teaching experience. It is possible for the best class someone has ever done, to be on their qualification day ;)


So really, my post is generic and meaningless. Please ignore ;)

ducasi
18th-December-2006, 09:55 AM
What does a "formal dance background" amount to?

As I would understand the phrase, I'd guess that the majority of MJ teachers do not qualify.

Gav
18th-December-2006, 10:16 AM
Abso-bl00dy-lutely they should be formally trained.

I wouldn't agree that a formal dance background is necessary, that seems a little OTT to me, but formal training in teaching is completely essential.

Some people are naturally good at teaching, some people have to work hard at it, but the naturals still need training because there's all kinds of things that they could be doing wrong, or not as well as they should.

Some of the MJ teachers I've come across clearly haven't had any assessments since they qualified, because if they ever were good teachers, they've developed a lot of bad habits since then!:mad:

Lee Bartholomew
18th-December-2006, 10:41 AM
Being shown how to do something doesn't automaticly make you good at it.

I think if there is a good choice of MJ classes and teachers in an area, the paying public will vote with their wallets and feet as to who the better teacher is.

A formal qualification would be good, but I don't think it is nesacery in all cases. I don't know if some of the best dance teachers have had formal training or not. I think it's one of those things were the best teachers will be natrally tallented at it regardless of having a certificate or not.

David Bailey
18th-December-2006, 10:54 AM
OK then: no.

MJ teachers aren't trained to teach dancing now, why change things?

All MJ teachers do, is try to introduce people to the concept and practice of partner dancing. And really, how much training does that need?

The key skills for that task are enthusiasm, charisma and approachability - and they're inbuilt, no amount of training can help there.

Gav
18th-December-2006, 10:58 AM
Being shown how to do something doesn't automaticly make you good at it.

No, but having to pass a test to prove that you're good at it does.


I think if there is a good choice of MJ classes and teachers in an area, the paying public will vote with their wallets and feet as to who the better teacher is.

Yes, but why should they have to look around for the best, possibly wasting time and money on poor experiences, when formal qualifications could garuntee a certain standard?



A formal qualification would be good, but I don't think it is nesacery in all cases. I don't know if some of the best dance teachers have had formal training or not. I think it's one of those things were the best teachers will be natrally tallented at it regardless of having a certificate or not.

But it is necessary. I have been formally trained to train (a long time ago admittedly) and I was regularly assessed.
The thing is that I could stand up and demonstrate, explain, lead practice and monitor practice before I was trained. I was good at it and always got good feedback. However, during formal training, I learnt that I had several bad habits and that there were many, many ways I could make the learning experience better for my students.

Gav
18th-December-2006, 11:01 AM
OK then: no.

MJ teachers aren't trained to teach dancing now, why change things?

All MJ teachers do, is try to introduce people to the concept and practice of partner dancing. And really, how much training does that need?

The key skills for that task are enthusiasm, charisma and approachability - and they're inbuilt, no amount of training can help there.

I think I'm understanding your meaning correctly, when I say that you've hit the nail on the head. That the teachers should be trained so that they can provide more than just "introduce people to the concept and practice of partner dancing".

MartinHarper
18th-December-2006, 11:10 AM
Training folks who teach beginners in general people skills is just financial common sense.

Aside from that, I don't care what makes a teacher good, as long as they're good. Bad teachers can be ok if they're cheap or part of an otherwise good event.

Lee Bartholomew
18th-December-2006, 11:11 AM
I think it may be desirable for an MJ teacher to have training but really don't think it's nesacery.

If someone doesn't have the ability to stand up in front of a group of people, to be able to give them clear instructions and to do all the things an MJ teacher needs to do, then they will fail in teaching people and won't last long.

I think there are loads and loads of great teachers out there and I doubt they have had training. I think it is just a natral ability. Though being told what bad points you have is great if you want to develop as a teacher.

I think the best thing a MJ teacher can have is something that can't be taught or brought. Tallent.

Lou
18th-December-2006, 11:21 AM
So really, my post is generic and meaningless. Please ignore ;)
:D

All MJ teachers do, is try to introduce people to the concept and practice of partner dancing. And really, how much training does that need?

The key skills for that task are enthusiasm, charisma and approachability - and they're inbuilt, no amount of training can help there.
:yeah: :eek: :D

Those are the key skills of an MJ teacher. That, and the ability to dance a bit, and some common sense.

When I did that teacher training course with Nigel, I found the most helpful bits were on class management (how to structure the class, rotations, etc). The people who did best on the course were those who had some prior experience of teaching/training outside dance. It gives you the confidence to teach the class.

However, I will throw in one thing. It does help if the teacher has an understanding of the theory/practicalities of the dance that they're teaching. This means that they're able to explain such techniques as lead & follow, and to come up with routines that flow. These are things that, to the best of my knowledge, are not covered in depth in most MJ teaching. It's more about the moves.

Dreadful Scathe
18th-December-2006, 11:31 AM
MJ teachers aren't trained to teach dancing now, why change things?

Most of them are - the good ones have some form of training, formal or informal!

The question was "should they be trained" and I think they "should", the debate should perhaps be about what form of training is acceptable. Also, this question... is just a question - all of us would still go to a class by reputation regardless of how much training the teacher has had, or not. :)

Bluey
18th-December-2006, 11:47 AM
OK … I know that’s a bit black and white. So an alternative line. As long as teachers don’t actually damage the dancers, but keep them entertained … bring them on. Maybe it should be more about having more people have fun .. and the main thing that is holding that back is the limit of teachers out there.

I suppose its easy to diss the need for being qualified. Most people can think of a ‘bad’ trained instructor. However, I would think that the better someone is trained the more likely they are to do a good job on stage.

What do you think?

what about Public Liability Insurance issues

Lee Bartholomew
18th-December-2006, 11:49 AM
what about Public Liability Insurance issues

You don't need to be formally qualified for PLI. If you have first aid certificates etc it reduces premium a little.

David Bailey
18th-December-2006, 11:49 AM
I think I'm understanding your meaning correctly, when I say that you've hit the nail on the head. That the teachers should be trained so that they can provide more than just "introduce people to the concept and practice of partner dancing".
Why?

It's not clear what any aim of "training teachers" would actually be. And to my mind, it's unlikely that an investment in "proper training" will pay off, business-wise, in terms of pulling in more punters. In fact, it's quite plausible that it would be a bad move, business-wise, in that it'd create a steeper learning curve and therefore reduce beginner retention rate.

Ceroc have a good business model - pull them in, market the "it's easy" message, show them some basic moves. Why mess with it?

TheTramp
18th-December-2006, 11:52 AM
Well, of course, in an ideal world they (we!) would all be trained really well to give training.

However, it's never been one of those....

None. If they can dance let them teach!
As has been discussed before, the best dancers don't always make the best teachers. And vice versa. However, I think that being able to dance is a bit of an advantage. Did you mean to include up to a particular level here?

They should all have full-MJ training a la CTA?
Ummm. Quick question. Who actually designed the CTA course? Do they have the necessary training to put together a training course? Is it accredited in any way other than by Ceroc themselves. Is it delivered by people who have been trained to deliver training themselves? Are they accredited members of any training body? That aside, what does the CTA course actually hope to achieve? Define 'full-MJ' training please. As far as I'm aware, the CTA course is aimed at providing a basic level of training in delivering the beginner moves, and 'crowd control' (please note, I'm not trying to put it down at all here, but realistically, what can you actually achieve in one week?). Is that really going to make a huge difference in making someone into a "teacher"?

And, lets face it, if this were a pre-requisite, then several well known names on the teaching scene (David & Lily, Amir(?), Roger Chin, Nelson Rose (please note that if I am wrong about the amount of training to teach MJ any of the above people have received, then I do apologise) amongst others) wouldn't be teaching. What about other forms of dance? Does Anton DuBeke hold any form of training to be able to teach ballroom dancing? How about Jordan & Tatiana? Robert & Debra, or any of the other big WCS names?

Must be trained to teach intermediate and above?
What exactly does this mean? What extra training would you get to teach intermediate "and above"?

Must be trained to teach workshops and above?
See above point.

They should have formal dance training?
To the best of my knowledge, this would rule out all but a very few people. Kate Hargreaves, Amir and Nina spring to mind. I don't know of any others (though I'm sure that there are a few).

They should have formal training in training?
See above point, but probably take out those names. Is there many teachers who have had this? And again, I'll refer the question to all other dance forms too.

They should have bi-annual re-assessment?
I'm all for this too - in theory. Do any teachers get continual formal assessment done on their teaching. With a real sit-down discussion on areas that can be improved on? Of course, how practical that is (watching one class every now and then, isn't really enough to base an assessment on - everyone has good and bad days!), and who does the assessment is another thing entirely.

Of course, this can be reflected in the number of people attending the class. But as we know, it's often not the teacher or the teaching that people attend classes for (it's usually just where is convenient, where their friends go etc.)!

They should be examined by the IDTA?
The who?

I did laugh at Nigel on one comment on "So you think you can dance". One guy introduced himself as a dance teacher and choreographer. He then danced. At the end, Nigel asked if he charged people for the teaching. When the guy said that he did, Nigel said that he should immediately give the people back their money. And likened it to stealing! :whistle:

tsh
18th-December-2006, 11:52 AM
I voted NO, but would have prefered that it said 'if they can teach, let them teach'.

It also depends on the context. I can understand exactly that Ceroc, and also other larger independants have business needs that extend outside of what happens on stage, and need to have some consistency in their teaching.

It's also clear that some training in teaching in general will probably improve a dancer's ability to communicate with the class. Some people are naturaly better at this than others though.

In the case of an independant operator, provided they know what they are doing, who cares? If they don't have the skills already, they probably won't be trying to teach.

I think that most people who have been through any formal training program (scuba diving as an example) will appreciate that in general, you hand over some cash, and get a cert card in return. It becomes an exersise in liability management, and the qualification provides very little in terms of a means of judging ability.

Sean

philsmove
18th-December-2006, 11:55 AM
Yes it would be nice if more teachers had some training in how to teach

And yes a yearly refresher, would be good

But I would hate to see SHOULD become a MUST

And as we seem to be governed by more and more regulations

And the likes of HSE have a great habit of changing SHOULD to MUST

My vote is NO to all the above

Including the requirement to be able to dance

Gav
18th-December-2006, 12:13 PM
Why?
Ceroc have a good business model - pull them in, market the "it's easy" message, show them some basic moves. Why mess with it?

Because it's letting down people when they get past the basic stage and want to get better. If there was a local alternative to Ceroc that provided more for "developing" dancers like me, Ceroc would have lost me and several others.
Currently Ceroc seems to be relying on the fact that there's no-one doing anything better. Dangerous business decision. After all, one day I might decide that I could plug that gap in the market and take all of the local franchises best dancers with me.

Hmmmm, suddenly I sound like so many dissatisfied Ceroc punters that have done that before and not really made much difference :sick: :confused: :rolleyes:

David Bailey
18th-December-2006, 12:13 PM
Most of them are - the good ones have some form of training, formal or informal!
Really? MJ teachers who are trained to teach dance? Wow - where are these teachers?
I'd love to meet some. I'd certainly like to meet a Ceroc teacher who's been trained to teach dance.


Because it's letting down people when they get past the basic stage and want to get better. If there was a local alternative to Ceroc that provided more for "developing" dancers like me, Ceroc would have lost me and several others.
This sounds exactly like me, 18 months ago.

After a while, you just give up and realise that MJ teaching won't really change; they've got a business model, it works, they'll stick with it.

My advice? Try another dance form if you want to improve.


I did laugh at Nigel on one comment on "So you think you can dance". One guy introduced himself as a dance teacher and choreographer. He then danced. At the end, Nigel asked if he charged people for the teaching. When the guy said that he did, Nigel said that he should immediately give the people back their money. And likened it to stealing! :whistle:
I saw that one too - boy, that Nigel's just Evil, he makes Simon Callow and Craig R-H look like pussycats. :rofl:

Groovemeister
18th-December-2006, 12:34 PM
I find it enlightening that the No-going back thread and this one are coming across similar in what people are thinking. Not sure what you can conclude from that.

I will keep my assumptions to myself

Paul F
18th-December-2006, 12:36 PM
Didnt know whether to reply or not but as someone who has gone through the Ceroc training and has recently started down the tortuous road of ISTD qualification I thought I would respond.

Formal teaching qualifications to teach MJ? No.

To train to be a teacher through an international body like the ISTD takes ages.

Some of the material you go through may be useful for teaching MJ but, at the end of the day, its not what the vast majority of people want.
Ceroc is there to bring dancing to the masses and it does this well. I know from experience that introducing more granular concepts such as movement theory is not advisable as most people don't want to know. If anything this makes the dance less appealing.

Then there are the relatively small group of people who may want to expose themselves (ooer!) to these concepts. Thats great and could be an avenue for these 'formally trained' teachers but I really dont think this would offset the time, money and effort required to achieve these qualifications.

On the other side of the coin is the question of whether a teacher should be trained in other 'participatory' disciplines i.e. non-teacher training.
This, again, is all fine and well but without the know-how of how to transition the knowledge they have gained renders them no better off in an MJ setting. As an example, my current partner has been a professional ballet dancer and teacher for many years. Her knowledge of movement and dance is vast but I doubt whether this would help her in teaching MJ as the link between theory and execution is vastly different.

I have spoken to a few people in the past who have come into MJ having had formal dance training. Pretty much all of them have said that its so difficult to pick up MJ. This is because their knowledge base is set in such a way that the freestyle style of MJ is difficult to grasp. They know about posture, movement, bodyflight etc. but only related to certain disciplines.


Right now I think Ceroc et al. has it right. It turns out teachers who know the syllabus, who know the basics of crowd control and who know (or should know) how to entertain. Thats all we need. Lets not over complicate things.

Lee Bartholomew
18th-December-2006, 12:43 PM
I don't think Teachers should have formal training in traning or dance but I do think there should be some training in things like First Aid and Health and Saftey.

I got given the chance to teach MJ at a small class I took over. The first thing I did was go and get a first aid cert (although class is in sports center so first aider always on site).

FoxyFunkster
18th-December-2006, 01:28 PM
I do think formal training like what the CTA provide is very important, Ceroc have an awful lot of people with alot of experience in teaching which can only benefit the budding up and coming teachers which in turn can only make the whole experience better for the punter, for those to see this at first hand try you could try to get to one of Tim Sant`s classes to in london, a fantastic recently qualified teacher who`s only 19 and whilst he benefits from being a natural on stage he has clearly benefitted from the CTA training.

I totally agree with the point about a review process for the teachers and even one for the teacher trainers which i don`t believe is in place but i could be wrong. There is however some things that aren`t taught so easily like a positive outgoing attitude to teaching, working the floor, demonstrating the class and doing the dirty work so to speak, things which aren`t always adhered to but things which i believe are noticed by punters when they aren`t done

Lastly I recently danced with Debbie Attwood (midlands ceroc teacher methinks) at camber at the fit camp weekend for about 6 dances on the spin and as always i`m constantly loooking for hints and tips from the better dancers to try and improve my dancing and i learnt 4 crucial things from Debbie during that dance that could only have come from someone with a great attitude to teaching, lots of experience and proper training.

Strength and honour to you all...........

TheTramp
18th-December-2006, 02:16 PM
Strength and honour to you all...........

When did we start being in an RPG?? :confused:

Lee Bartholomew
18th-December-2006, 02:18 PM
When did we start being in an RPG?? :confused:

Are we not. Damn It. I thought you got points per post.

CJ
18th-December-2006, 03:13 PM
I don't think Teachers should have formal training in traning or dance but I do think there should be some training in things like First Aid and Health and Saftey.

Why would this not be the Venue Manager's responsibility?
Safety in teaching drops, yes. But first aid, etc?!?:confused:

FWIW, I have no formal teaching qualifications. However, I have had training on the subjects of training, communication, presentation, music and dancing; as well as being an experienced musician and performer. Whilst I would be disinclined to teach a class of 100+ at a weekender all the drops I know, I still feel more than capable of teaching certain aspects of dance to certain audiences. (and it seems, to date, rather successfully:blush: )

Training wont stop charlatans. And, with respect, there are still some teachers "less as good" as others, even with CTA training.:whistle:

Lee Bartholomew
18th-December-2006, 03:27 PM
Why would this not be the Venue Manager's responsibility?
Safety in teaching drops, yes. But first aid, etc?!?:confused:



Because the Venue manager is not always at hand also I would like to think that if an accident happened you wouldn't have to go through the process of having to find who the first aider is.

Dreadful Scathe
18th-December-2006, 03:28 PM
When did we start being in an RPG?? :confused:

That is so asking for a "stats and abilitys of forum posters" thread. Talking about Trampys 18 stat in sarcasm, DavidJames "mighty moderator" spells and Woodfaces "+6 shoes of spinning" has got to be worth a page or 2.

Lee Bartholomew
18th-December-2006, 03:33 PM
That is so asking for a "stats and abilitys of forum posters" thread. Talking about Trampys 18 stat in sarcasm, DavidJames "mighty moderator" spells and Woodfaces "+6 shoes of spinning" has got to be worth a page or 2.

Or could just play forum top trumps.

David Bailey
18th-December-2006, 03:33 PM
That is so asking for a "stats and abilitys of forum posters" thread. Talking about Trampys 18 stat in sarcasm, DavidJames "mighty moderator" spells and Woodfaces "+6 shoes of spinning" has got to be worth a page or 2.
Harumph. No-one was interested in my "Top Trumps" idea last year :tears:

Stuart M
18th-December-2006, 03:34 PM
When did we start being in an RPG?? :confused:
I've always thought it was. Believe me, on average there's 5 posts a day which have me making a sanity check.

Lee Bartholomew
18th-December-2006, 03:34 PM
Harumph. No-one was interested in my "Top Trumps" idea last year :tears:

Come on then Whos going to start the top trumps thread.

Dreadful Scathe
18th-December-2006, 03:36 PM
Really? MJ teachers who are trained to teach dance? Wow - where are these teachers?
I'd love to meet some. I'd certainly like to meet a Ceroc teacher who's been trained to teach dance.


I said formal or informal - allowing for just about anything including CTA and watching others on stage teaching :)

David Bailey
18th-December-2006, 03:40 PM
I said formal or informal - allowing for just about anything including CTA and watching others on stage teaching :)
And including just kind of making-it-up-as-we-go training then, I guess...


Come on then Whos going to start the top trumps thread.
Good idea (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5711).

CJ
18th-December-2006, 03:44 PM
Harumph. No-one was interested in my "Top Trumps" idea last year :tears:

Was your dare not to make the set?!?

What would categories be??

cue DJ to start most thread splits category by doing just that...

David Bailey
18th-December-2006, 03:51 PM
Was your dare not to make the set?!?
Made it. Printed it. Brought it to Southport. Tried to give the pack away. No takers.

It was my first indication of the vast gulf between forum hot-air-talk and forum action-in-real-life... :rolleyes:

Lee Bartholomew
18th-December-2006, 04:11 PM
Made it. Printed it. Brought it to Southport. Tried to give the pack away. No takers.

It was my first indication of the vast gulf between forum hot-air-talk and forum action-in-real-life... :rolleyes:

Could we not make a web based version?

CJ
18th-December-2006, 04:13 PM
Made it. Printed it. Brought it to Southport. Tried to give the pack away. No takers.

It was my first indication of the vast gulf between forum hot-air-talk and forum action-in-real-life... :rolleyes:

Can I report this post to a moderator with a query re it's truth content?!?

TheTramp
18th-December-2006, 04:15 PM
That is so asking for a "stats and abilitys of forum posters" thread. Talking about Trampys 18 stat in sarcasm, DavidJames "mighty moderator" spells and Woodfaces "+6 shoes of spinning" has got to be worth a page or 2.

What have I started now??? :what:







Btw. 18 out of what? :innocent:

TheTramp
18th-December-2006, 04:16 PM
I've always thought it was. Believe me, on average there's 5 posts a day which have me making a sanity check.

I thought that this post was very funny. :worthy:

David Bailey
18th-December-2006, 04:17 PM
Can I report this post to a moderator with a query re it's truth content?!?
Well, I attempted to donate it to three prominent forumites - I've got a witness too. It's pretty solid. So I think I'll avoid infracting myself for the moment.

TheTramp
18th-December-2006, 04:17 PM
Incidentally, any moderators want to add a new option to the poll:

"IF they can teach, let them teach".

Then I can vote. :flower:

Trouble
18th-December-2006, 04:17 PM
i think MJ teachers do not normally need teaching in how to teach people to dance but some of them could do with training on how to make people feel good and come back to see them. I think people skills is something that you either have or you dont have and teaching it could be quite difficult but a lesson in it would not go amiss in some areas. People skills can sometimes be more inportant at a venue or just as important as the dance skills. :flower:

Dreadful Scathe
18th-December-2006, 04:23 PM
And including just kind of making-it-up-as-we-go training then, I guess...

Well, as "training" implies you studied "something" in the past, and making-it-up-as-we-go implies the "present" , no.....you muppet :)

Stuart M
18th-December-2006, 04:32 PM
So I think I'll avoid infracting myself for the moment.
Well, from the mental image that one provoked, I rolled and failed, Trampy :what:

TheTramp
18th-December-2006, 04:34 PM
Well, from the mental image that one provoked, I rolled and failed, Trampy :what:

[Comfort].

I winced at it too! :eek:

Gav
18th-December-2006, 04:38 PM
I'm amazed at the amount of people that think you can teach people without any kind of teacher training!
If you're a natural, you might get away with it, but it's so easy to make simple mistakes and put your students off.
I've heard Ceroc & non-Ceroc teachers repeatedly tell their dancers, this is a simple or easy move/routine etc.
What could be the harm in that?
Well if it's a simple move and I can't get it right then I must be really stupid, right?

That's just one tiny example of something that could stop a newcomer from ever returning, and there's many more too but most people don't think about them until someone tells them. I have no idea what training Ceroc or others give and I'm sure I won't convince the bigger organisations to change their ways, but if you're setting up your own, please get some training and make the dance experience better for your students.

CJ
18th-December-2006, 04:55 PM
Well, I attempted to donate it to three prominent forumites - I've got a witness too. It's pretty solid. So I think I'll avoid infracting myself for the moment.

FWIW, I'd have taken them. Perhaps, I wasn't prominent enough.:tears:

David Bailey
18th-December-2006, 04:56 PM
FWIW, I'd have taken them. Perhaps, I wasn't prominent enough.:tears:
Strangely enough, after three rejections I kind of took the hint.

Gav
18th-December-2006, 05:10 PM
FWIW, I'd have taken them. Perhaps, I wasn't prominent enough.:tears:

CJ, not prominent enough? :really: :rofl:

Andy McGregor
18th-December-2006, 05:56 PM
Just to bring this thread back on track. I think it's essential to get training in teaching MJ. That training might only be a few tips from somebody experienced, or maybe some one-to-one coaching, etc. But somebody standing up on stage saying they're an MJ teacher because they think they're good at MJ is very likely to make a complete hash of it.

Speaking for myself, I got Nigel Anderson to spend a weekend teaching me and a few others, including Lou, how to teach. And I regularly ask him questions about particular aspects of teaching. Even then, my first few dozen lessons were definitely part of a very steep learning curve where I lost people due to my inexperience - thank goodness my classes were small at the time so I had less witnesses :tears:

I've now run teachers training courses myself to develop our own teachers. It's much harder than I thought it would be. You need to prepare carefully and take ages over it. You need to formularise things that you take for granted to make them easier to explain and understand. And, the hardest bit of all, manage people's self-image so that they don't get demotivated when you ask them to do more training before letting them loose on paying customers.

It would be great to have an exam that we could do. There is only one exam in MJ that I'm aware of. That's run by the LeRoc Federation, they also run MJ teacher training on an ad-hoc basis. I've not observed enough graduates of this training and examination scheme to be sure of the quality of the teachers it produces. But, so far I've not seen anyone who really impresses :whistle:

Andy McGregor
18th-December-2006, 07:18 PM
nesacerySpelling infraction

2 points

Sentence = paste posts into Word to check spelling for 2 weeks.

Woodface is in line for the Gadget award for "speilinng ecselense" but we can usually distil his meaning from his posts. However, the above mis-spelling is woeful.

SuzyQ
19th-December-2006, 02:32 PM
Given that there are a wide variety of people with a range of pre-existing abilities who are entering the world of MJ teaching, wouldn't it be good to accept that each of these people may have different training needs?!

I have no idea what is included in the CTA method, but I would hope that individual needs are taken into consideration. Plus ... I think it is important not to turn everyone into MJ teaching clones, after all variety is the spice of life and we all have our favourite teachers whose teaching style suits us best.

I suppose, at the end of the day, it is up to the person who runs the venue to find the person they want to be on stage interfacing with the customers. It is also up to them to assess whether the taxi dancers are doing a good job etc. If they are not doing a good job people presumably won't come any more! If the person running the venue thinks their staff need extra training then they should get them it as they should reap the financial reward of that. Also, I think an individual should be able to get themselves some sort of training or mentoring to teach if they want to ... then it is up to them to find themselves someone who is willing for them to teach at their venue!

Also, teaching MJ is surely 1/4 technical ability, 1/4 communication skill, 1/4 enthusiasm and encouragement and 1/4 crowd control. So, any inabiltiy in any of those areas needs to be addressed. I would suggest that communication skill and enthusiasm/encouragement are pretty much something you either have or don't have - and can't easily be learned. Technical ability and crowd control can more or less be taught!