Utopia?

[David Bailey]

I thought this deserved a separate thread - I can't find a discussion on it elsewhere.

Utopia seems to be a generic "Ceroc brand" concept - as described by Rocky here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=315501&postcount=212) - rather than a single event.

Effectively, it's "Ceroc moving into the smooth / blues market" with a funky name.

I'm not sure about the name personally, but I guess time will tell...

My other feeling is that, for this type of event, getting the music right is vital - as the music creates the mood.

What do other people think? Good idea? Bad idea? etc.?

[ducasi]

It's a good idea, though I fear it's been created too much like a "product"...

If a normal Ceroc night is the Big Mac, then this'll be the McChicken sandwich?

That said, I think the name is good, and I'm sure a big part of the concept will be to create sample playlists for DJs more used to playing Big Mac music.... ;)

[Gav]

I thought this deserved a separate thread - I can't find a discussion on it elsewhere.

Utopia seems to be a generic "Ceroc brand" concept - as described by Rocky here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showpost.php?p=315501&postcount=212) - rather than a single event.

Effectively, it's "Ceroc moving into the smooth / blues market" with a funky name.

I'm not sure about the name personally, but I guess time will tell...

My other feeling is that, for this type of event, getting the music right is vital - as the music creates the mood.

What do other people think? Good idea? Bad idea? etc.?

I'm glad you posted this 'cos I've been catching hints here and there.

Also not sure about the name but I'm sure it will catch on.

I think it's one of the best ideas I've heard in a long time. I'm also not sure if I'd have the minerals to go, even though I'd love to because it depends on the atmosphere.
If it's the type of thing that'll welcome newcomers who want to learn how, then great. If it's just going to be a specialist night for hotshots and great dancers who can already do it to strut their stuff, not so good.

I think it was you, DJ, whom I spoke to at Cheshunt and pointed out that I prefer not to dance to Latin tracks, because I don't want to be one of the few people "stomping" MJ through a Latin track. I'd rather wait until I can dance with Latin styling. Same with other specifically styled music.

[ducasi]

Can anyone find the post by Rocky (or was it SilverFox?) who explained the concept?

[Gav]

Can anyone find the post by Rocky (or was it SilverFox?) who explained the concept?

The link was in DJ's original post if that's the one you mean.

Just to clarify what I was after, what I was getting at is that it will be the attitude of the "punters" that will decide what the atmosphere is like, however Ceroc choose to market it.

[ducasi]

The link was in DJ's original post if that's the one you mean.
I'm sure that link wasn't there the first time I read that post! :confused:

[David Bailey]

I'm sure that link wasn't there the first time I read that post! :confused:
It was, but only 1-word - I made it more prominent just now just for you :flower:

Talking of links, can anyone find me the link to the Utopia site? I think it contained a description of the concept...

[Princess Fi]

That said, I think the name is good, and I'm sure a big part of the concept will be to create sample playlists for DJs more used to playing Big Mac music.... ;)

If I pay to "super size" my dance night, does that mean I can get a few more hours of freestyle? :whistle:

[ducasi]

It was, but only 1-word - I made it more prominent just now just for you :flower:

Talking of links, can anyone find me the link to the Utopia site? I think it contained a description of the concept...
Thanks! :flower:

[Gav]

It was, but only 1-word - I made it more prominent just now just for you :flower:

Talking of links, can anyone find me the link to the Utopia site? I think it contained a description of the concept...

http://www.utopiadance.co.uk

[David Bailey]

http://www.utopiadance.co.uk

Excellent, thanks. I couldn't find it from ceroc.com, I wonder if the lack of a link is a purposeful "distancing"?


Anyway, from the description, it says:

UTOPIA benefits from being part of the Ceroc network but will offer an alternative night of dancing to the normal Ceroc format.

Essentially UTOPIA events are aimed at those – like us - who love Blues, Soft Latin, R&B and other slower more chilled out genres of music with challenging rhythmic breaks and interludes.

If you dance WCS, Blues, Latin or Tango, or maybe you want to learn more about these styles, then these are the dance nights for you.

Nights will commence with a ‘specialist’ dance class – (e.g. Blues, Smooth, WCS, Liquid Latin) and then glide into hours of chilled and challenging freestyle music.

Whilst I think this is a great idea, and really hope it works, I'm really not sure of a couple of things:


This is clearly not a "Blues room" thing - Ceroc have been very definite about not ever using that term - and classing all those styles together may result in a less mellow atmosphere than I'd like. WCS and Tango are hardly the same thing... So it may be more of a "diluted" atmosphere than some people would like. And those are the people that this is aimed at...
Historically, Ceroc haven't been very good at running this sort of thing. I had high hopes for the 2-room Chiswick freestyles, and tried them three times last year, and the best I achieved personally was a feeling of "Not too bad" - mostly it was "Bad". Again, dilution can lead to "atmosphere" problems.


Having said that, it does work very well at Berkhamsted - will that be renamed "Utopia Berko"? :devil: - so it's clearly achievable at a Ceroc venue.

[ducasi]

You know, Utopia sounds like a good concept for a weekly class too. :)

[Genie]

You know, Utopia sounds like a good concept for a weekly class too. :)

Yes, yes it does!

[David Bailey]

So, do people think Funky Lush will survive then?

(Ah, but will there be cake at Utopia, that's probably the key question :whistle: )

[spindr]

Do we have to wait until July for Utopia -- or will it start as a non-smoking venue?
SpinDr

[Yogi_Bear]

Sounds worth a try, I will try to make it to the opening night at Evesham on 19 January. The web site plays some great music too.....

[jivecat]

So, do people think Funky Lush will survive then?

(Ah, but will there be cake at Utopia, that's probably the key question :whistle: )

I'd certainly be happy to attend both, with preference given to the venue nearest to me. I've just about given up attending conventional Ceroc nights and I'm totally delighted that I'll have a wider choice of alternatives.

(There could be cake at Utopia, if I had anything to do with it. Cake isn't a Friday night type of comestible, though. Maybe they'll shift it to a Sunday afternoon?:grin: )

[Val Rokov]

Dear All

Don’t fall off your seats! This is the first time I have posted on the Forum and I’m not likely to be a regular participant (that's David's job!). I’d much rather speak to you all personally when I see you out and about.

I know David has already posted and given some insight as to what UTOPIA is all about but I just want to clear a few things up so that there is no need for speculation.

UTOPIA is our brainchild (David, Vince and I) and came about because this is exactly the kind of night we would want to go to. It won’t be to everyone’s taste, particularly those who really love the usual Ceroc beat or faster music so it was important for us to set this brand apart. There would be nothing worse than a Ceroc member booking this believing it to be a usual Ceroc night and then being hugely disappointed, hence the separate website and sample music. So that's the first thing to bear in mind: it's NOT a Ceroc night and Ceroc are not in control of the proceedings. Having said that, we do obviously value Mike's opinion and do discuss our developments and the potential roll out of UTOPIA with him.

We have opted for the genres of music we like dancing to and whilst David and I are known for our Blues dancing most of you will know that our blues style is a little edgier than most and personally I am not a big Swing Blues Music fan as I find the tempo and beat a bit one dimensional. That’s my personal view point though and there will of course be some traditional Blues music played on the nights, but we are opting for variation.

The event we have tried to create is a dance night that allows people to dance in the ‘style’ they prefer, be that Blues, WCS or Latin - all of which can be danced to a slower music beat. No-one will be frowned upon for adopting their favoured style and what I really hope to see is a room full of people showcasing their different styles. Now ‘showcasing’ maybe the wrong term – this night is not about encouraging elitism, but in order for people to learn a new style it is essential to have some inspirational dancers there to watch and dance with, so our focus is on getting just the right balance. We really do want to encourage more people into this dance scene, which is the main reason we are running classes at the start of every night. It is also the reason why we have a guest list of about half for invited dancers and half for the 'general' public.

For beginners in Blues and intermediates, whenever we teach a Blues Workshop we are usually asked where they can practice and often told they forget everything because nowhere plays music they can practice to, so those people will consider this to be a long time coming. We therefore believe this concept fills a gap in the market for dancers of ALL levels.

Finally the Ceroc involvement - as this seems to be an issue. I have been working for Ceroc for the last 5 years and have always been very well supported and encouraged by Mike and believe that if any organization can help to develop this fantastic market Ceroc can. Therefore, UTOPIA will hopefully become a brand which will offer consistently good dance nights for those who are into this particular scene and in a years time I’d like to think that there will be double the number of great Blues dancers out there.

UTOPIA is not about the money for us (but of course it has to be financial viable and will fail if it is not supported) - it is about the enjoyment, social interaction and about encouraging new people into the scene be that dancers, teachers or Djs. We want to put on a night that everyone will love time after time – we hope those of you who decide to attend enjoy every minute! Of course the easiest thing is to come along to one of our nights and judge for yourselves (over 100 of the 150 places have been booked already though, so be quick!)

Best wishes,

Val

[Yogi_Bear]

Thanks that's a really helpful post, and I am all in favour of what you are aiming to do.

I didn't find (in an admittedly quick look) anything on thr Utopia site about a guest list, invited dancers, booking, or 150 places. What is involved here, where and when? I'd like to go to the Evesham event next month, do I have to book in advance? If so, I'd like to do so......please explain....
Ian

[Gav]

For the Twickenham launch date (12th January) you need to reserve a place in advance.
If you're looking at Evesham, that's probably why you didn't see it.

[Val Rokov]

Thanks that's a really helpful post, and I am all in favour of what you are aiming to do.

I didn't find (in an admittedly quick look) anything on thr Utopia site about a guest list, invited dancers, booking, or 150 places. What is involved here, where and when? I'd like to go to the Evesham event next month, do I have to book in advance? If so, I'd like to do so......please explain....
Ian

If you go on the website and click on UTOPIA events and then click on either Twickenham or Evesham you will see the capacity and/or booking requirements. We are really restricted at Twickenham as I don't think this venue has ever been filled to capacity for a dance event. Our best 'guesstamate' is 150 based on what we've been told, but we have no idea until the night whether or not this is right.

Obviously, please bear in mind that this will be a learning curve for us and we will encourage feedback. There is little point having a great dance night if there is no space to dance. If this turns out to be the case, the capacity number will be adjusted downwards accordingly.

At Evesham, this is not a problem as we believe that the space is big enough to accomodate the dancers that we think will attend - but again it will be reviewed on an ongoing basis. There is also a contact for Debbie Attwood on the website in the contact link, so if you do have any specific questions about the night or the venue please feel free to get in touch with her.

[ducasi]

Dear All [...] Thanks for a good, clear, useful post. :respect:


We have opted for the genres of music we like dancing to and whilst David and I are known for our Blues dancing most of you will know that our blues style is a little edgier than most and personally I am not a big Swing Blues Music fan as I find the tempo and beat a bit one dimensional. That’s my personal view point though and there will of course be some traditional Blues music played on the nights, but we are opting for variation. :clap:


It is also the reason why we have a guest list of about half for invited dancers and half for the 'general' public. This is interesting. I wonder who you need to be to be on the guest list. :)

[Franck]

This is interesting. I wonder who you need to be to be on the guest list. :)Clearly, a good start is to be (or know) one of the 10 :D
Seriously though, I believe their is no 'free' guest list, just that 50% of the tickets have been reserved for the launch night for friends and by invitation, etc...

Utopia sounds great, and as a few Scottish teachers are down from Scotland for the 'CTA Teacher Update' that week-end, we are going to the launch night!
It promises to be a fab night and I really can't wait to see everyone! :clap:

[Yogi_Bear]

would be nice to have been on the guest list....:whistle:

[Val Rokov]

would be nice to have been on the guest list....:whistle:

Dera All (again!),

Please don't read too much into the guest list - it really is just a list of people that David, myself and SF have contact details for that we are know are into this kind of music.

We haven't excluded anyone - so if you do love this kind of music and haven't received an invite it's simply that we don't have your email address.

If the guest list becomes massive then we will rotate the guest invites (or think about booking a larger venue), but that doesn't mean you won't be able to come as anyone can book via the website or via a phone call. The idea is to have around half invites and half straight off direct contact from the site, so that it opens it up for everyone.

Hope that helps.

[Val Rokov]

Clearly, a good start is to be (or know) one of the 10 :D
Seriously though, I believe their is no 'free' guest list, just that 50% of the tickets have been reserved for the launch night for friends and by invitation, etc...

Utopia sounds great, and as a few Scottish teachers are down from Scotland for the 'CTA Teacher Update' that week-end, we are going to the launch night!
It promises to be a fab night and I really can't wait to see everyone! :clap:

As Franck, says, the guest invite is not a 'free' invite - or we would go out of business fairly rapidly! It's just a 'heads up' invite to people we know.

[Chef]

This sounds like something that I would really enjoy. I have often longed for the blues room experience at weekenders to be more readily available. The closest that I have gotten to this is FunkyLush and whether there is a noticeable difference between Utopia and FunkyLush remains to be seen.

Things that I appreciate about Utopia that have been trailed are

1) Reserving your place(s). There are a few places that I go to where you have to reserve your places just so the organiser can ensure that the venue doesn’t get overcrowded. All too often I have travelled great distances to events to find that the dancers are crammed in like sardines and there is no room to actually dance. A waste of travelling time and entrance fee

2) The “three tracks” policy. Great! No more than three tracks of one style is just about right. I find that if there are three tracks of one style then that is about my limit of creativity and after that I find myself getting bored with what I am doing and feel that I am just “done” on what ideas I can bring to the genre. I also find that if there is a style of music on that I don’t want to dance to then I sit out the first, think about getting a drink or fitting in a loo break for the second and these are completed by the third track. If it ever got to the 6th track I really didn’t like I would be feeling that I was getting “cold”.


I have met a lot of people recently that have told me that the normal Ceroc night just doesn’t do it for them anymore and what they are looking for is something smoother, slower and musically expressive and diverse. Perhaps Utopia will fill that need for them.

My own experience of blues rooms has moved in stages. When I first saw them I thought what was this strange “non ceroc” dancing that was going on. I had no idea what to do so just keep walking to the main room where I would be in my comfort zone. Then I found myself watching the dancing more and more and wanting my own dancing to more like what I was watching, smooth and reactive to the music. I resolved to find lessons. After that I was out on the blues room floor, feeling quite a fraud, but captivated by the idea of capturing the mood of the song rather than just ploughing through all the moves I had been taught. I still liked the high energy buzz of dancing to fast music but the blues room was teaching me that power without control is nothing.

There are a lot of people out there that have done the plain vanilla Ceroc thing for quite a while and are asking themselves “what next?” to keep the buzz of learning going. I hope the “inspirational dancer” idea will be a good shop window and will entice in more people than it scares away.

I will definitely be reserving my place hoping that I have found a place that I will enjoy.

[Yogi_Bear]

Dera All (again!),

Please don't read too much into the guest list - it really is just a list of people that David, myself and SF have contact details for that we are know are into this kind of music.

We haven't excluded anyone - so if you do love this kind of music and haven't received an invite it's simply that we don't have your email address.

If the guest list becomes massive then we will rotate the guest invites (or think about booking a larger venue), but that doesn't mean you won't be able to come as anyone can book via the website or via a phone call. The idea is to have around half invites and half straight off direct contact from the site, so that it opens it up for everyone.

Hope that helps.
Val,
That's fine - my comment was totally tongue in cheek (hence the :whistle: )and I would like to support the venture. I've long been unintertested in the mainstream MJ music and its relative lack of opportunity for expression and creativilty, hence my forays into and out of other dance styles, in particular Lindy Hop, blues and Argentine tango. I supspect Twickenham for me on a Friday night is not really on, but though perhaps further away Evesham is more convenient for other things that I do and so I would hope to support the January launch.