Simple or complex moves?

[Ghost]

As a follow and assuming equal degrees of skill, fluidity etc, would you prefer to be led in simple moves, complicated moves, challenging moves, a mixture or is it all just follow?

If I was going to dance with you for one dance only, what types of moves would you prefer I led (assuming I could led them all equally well)?

I'm essentially questioning the concept that all folllows are happy with a lead who dances simple moves well. To be honest I'm expecting people on both sides of the fence - I'm interested in what the split is, does it correlate to experience in anyway and anything else interesting that comes up :)

[Twirly]

Do you mean in one dance or over the course of an evening?

[Trouble]

Do you mean in one dance or over the course of an evening?

good question

but generally, im assuming over the evening. i like everything, simple, complex, different, same, mixed. As long as we both are enjoying it, all good for me.

[Ghost]

Do you mean in one dance or over the course of an evening?


good question

Very good question. Um hadn't looked at it that way :blush: . I meant it more as a general preference. I suppose a single dance is closer to what I had in mind though I take Trouble's point :flower:

If I was going to dance with you for one dance only, what types of moves would you prefer I led (assuming I could led them all equally well)?

[Lory]

If the lead is good, I neither notice the complexity, nor the individual moves, it all just flows. :drool:

So I suppose my answer is, it's all just follow to me :nice:

[Msfab]

Whatever you decide to do make sure its lead well! Nothing worse than a badly lead dance/move/pattern.

[Twirly]

Very good question. Um hadn't looked at it that way :blush: . I meant it more as a general preference. I suppose a single dance is closer to what I had in mind though I take Trouble's point :flower:

If I was going to dance with you for one dance only, what types of moves would you prefer I led (assuming I could led them all equally well)?

Probably a mixture - a few challenging/complex moves interspersed with simpler moves to allow me to maintain/regain balance, breath or whatever.

Having said that, some of the best dances can be the simplest ones where there is that connection. And challenging ones are fun too. Wouldn't develop without them.

Uhm, guess that it's a "doesn't matter" for me then :nice:

[TheTramp]

If I was going to dance with you for one dance only, what types of moves would you prefer I led (assuming I could led them all equally well)?

Aren't complex moves led well, simple moves?

[Ghost]

Aren't complex moves led well, simple moves?

Apparently not, or so I've been told. They may be simple to follow, but there's an awareness that the move has a higher degree of complexity which for some follows is prefereable.

[Lee Bartholomew]

Aren't complex moves led well, simple moves?


or just variations / combinations of?

[TheTramp]

Apparently not, or so I've been told. They may be simple to follow, but there's an awareness that the move has a higher degree of complexity which for some follows is prefereable.

I think that they're just nit-picking.

Anything that is led well, I'd say becomes simple.

Of course, it might just be that after the 213th first move in a row, they'd rather appreciate it if you led something else! :whistle:

[Beowulf]

I only lead simple moves..

if they're too difficult I can't do them ;)

[MartinHarper]

or just variations / combinations of?

Many are. One way to create complexity is by combining simple things.

A good leader can make complicated moves easier to follow, feel smoother, and look better. Still, an Accordion Comb Pull Crab is more complicated than an In and Out, all else remaining equal.

[Frankie_4711]

Voted for a mixture, but really it's somewhere between a mixture and doesn't matter. I'm perfectly happy with simple moves, but it is nice to be surprised with something a bit challenging or complex or just out of the ordinary every now and then - I certainly wouldn't complain if I didn't get them though, just so long as I'm dancing, I'm happy!

[Clueless]

I like having a mixture of moves and if I am dancing with a beginner I stick to 'safe' moves but sometimes put them into a move that I can lead well and see how they follow and if they spin out I can still carry on the dance make the move look intentional.

Though the partner must like a bit of diversity with the dance.

[whitetiger1518]

The only things that I would prefer not to be led into are dips and drops. .. I can only really cope with dips from the leads who know my limitations. I am not able to practice much at the moment, and so I am effectively only beginning the Intermediate classes - as a result I haven't done that many dips or other complicated moves in class....

(No drops at all please! 2 leads only excepted from this rule so far :worthy: :clap: :flower: )


Everything else I will be willing to try and learn if I haven't met it yet .... just warn me in advance of dips.

:cheers:

Whitetiger

[Trousers]

If the lead is good, I neither notice the complexity, nor the individual moves, it all just flows. :drool:

So I suppose my answer is, it's all just follow to me :nice:

You are one of the nicest people to dance with Lory and that is why.

:flower:

[robd]

Nothing worse than a badly lead dance/move/pattern.

Sure? Steak with mushroom sauce?

[Marc Forster]

Guilty of preaching the "simple moves are best" ethos before freestyling moves of a complex nature. :blush:

Always in pursuit of the move to end all moves. A variation on a variation can be built up then broken down till you get to the point where you share the product of your hard work with a mate!!!

"Yeah. That's a travelling pushspin":rofl:

Not ready to admit that we've exhausted all possibilities. Hopefully, the times for experimentation are defined by the willingness of the follower to stretch the boundaries. It's a constant battle to stay within the comfort zone.

[Cruella]

Hopefully, the times for experimentation are defined by the willingness of the follower to stretch the boundaries.

Also whether she's a good memory! How many times do you ask "Ooh that was nice, what did i just do? :whistle:

[dave the scaffolder]

good question

but generally, im assuming over the evening. i like everything, simple, complex, different, same, mixed. As long as we both are enjoying it, all good for me.
are we still talking about dancing here you little minx you, theres lovely isnt it

[Marc Forster]

Also whether she's a good memory! How many times do you ask "Ooh that was nice, what did i just do? :whistle:

Point taken. Occasionally I can still let go and allow the dance to happen rather than questioning everything. Still rate the "Cruella Buttslap" as a defining moment in modern jive history. Pure magic.

[Cruella]

Still rate the "Cruella Buttslap" as a defining moment in modern jive history.

Hardly a difficult target to hit.:wink:

[straycat]

I find it a misleading question. A really good leader can, (with the right followers) execute a 'simple' move in ways that less skilled people cannot - and they'll often look like completely different moves. Still be simple though...

I'm with Lory. Simple, complex, doesn't matter, as long as it's well-executed.

[Whitebeard]

are we still talking about dancing here you little minx you, theres lovely isnt it


That's Welsh !!!! ;-)

[Cruella]

I'm with Lory.

Does her husband know? :D

[straycat]

Does her husband know? :D

Jealousy will get you nowhere... :whistle:

[Ghost]

I find it a misleading question. A really good leader can, (with the right followers) execute a 'simple' move in ways that less skilled people cannot - and they'll often look like completely different moves. Still be simple though...

I'm with Lory. Simple, complex, doesn't matter, as long as it's well-executed.

This was my original thinking and I still believe it's true for some followers - there are 3 votes for "doesn't matter". But as I've talked with more people I'm coming to see a definite peference for some for a "mixture" which is reflected in the votes. Admittedly I'm surprised at how many votes it's gotten. But it does seem to show that dancing a mixture of moves will please pretty much everyone (as long as they're done well and within the the follow's ability etc).

[LilyB]

As a follow and assuming equal degrees of skill, fluidity etc, would you prefer to be led in simple moves, complicated moves, challenging moves, a mixture or is it all just follow?

If I was going to dance with you for one dance only, what types of moves would you prefer I led (assuming I could led them all equally well)? . . .

"It depends on the music" would have been my answer to Christopher's original question. But as the poll cannot be qualified thus and Christopher has specifically narrowed his question to "for one dance only", then my vote will have to be for "simple moves".

If the music is fast, I would prefer not to be led complex or challenging moves - hardly surprising I think:sick: .

If the music is lyrical, or particularly expressive, again I would prefer not to be led complex or challenging moves. That is because I prefer to have the freedom to be creative and expressive; this I can only do if my partner is not manipulating me through some complicated complex moves that require a degree of concentration which I would otherwise have expended in styling, and/or syncopating, and/or embellishing a simple move (had that been led instead of the complicated complex move). The type of music I enjoy dancing to and tend most often to dance to are the sort that allow for such creativity, hence the reason for my preference.

If, however, the music is medium-paced, boring, repetitive, thumpy, then I am quite happy to be led complex and/or challenging moves as there is little in the music that either allows for or encourages me to be creative. However, as I am not particularly fond of such music, I tend to sit out such tracks.

Notwithstanding my preferences expressed above, as a follower, I am always ready and willing to follow whatever moves the leader wishes to lead, provided in doing so he/she does not injure me or behave in an inappropriate manner.:flower:

[killingtime]

A variation on a variation can be built up then broken down till you get to the point where you share the product of your hard work with a mate!!

I tend to treat any moves as a breakdown of components. It helps learn new moves, where often you can think "that's like that bit of that move and ends like that other one" and means that I can find it easier to join a bit of one move to another.

As this thread is from a followers perspective though I'd say I like moves that I can follow easily and that don't put me in awkward positions and makes me feel like I'm playing a game of twister.

[Lee Bartholomew]

I prefer making simple moves complex.

[Mr Cool]

I prefer making simple moves complex.


I Enjoy trying to make the Basic moves like the first move, Change places, the Penguine turns etc. smooth and crisp beats complex every time.
:yeah: :yeah:

:waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

[Andreas]

Depending on the music, I vary between simple and complex. Usually the more the music veers off towards 'uninspiring' the more complexity can be seen/experienced in the moves. :blush: :whistle:

[NZ Monkey]

as a follower, I am always ready and willing to follow whatever moves the leader wishes to lead, provided in doing so he/she does not injure me or behave in an inappropriate manner.:flower:Oh well...there goes my last real chance. :tears:

:na:

[LilyB]

Oh well...there goes my last real chance. :tears:

:na:

You are a naughty boy!:devil:

[CJ]

Oh well...there goes my last real chance. :tears:

:na:

I've seen Lily's idea of appropriate.... even U should be fine, NZM!!!:stirring:

[NickC]

How many times have I got to say it, it's much better to do a hundred complex moves badly than 10 simple moves well, nuff said
should I leard move number 11

[Clueless]

really? I would say it is the other way round as complex moves, if lead badly can hurt and I'm not one to hurt a partner.

I try and ease the moves of the night into my routine and if it works all good and proper, if not I ask the teacher if she can take me aside and try and get tips of how to lead it properly.

[frolicols]

How many times have I got to say it, it's much better to do a hundred complex moves badly than 10 simple moves well, nuff said
should I leard move number 11


really? I would say it is the other way round as complex moves, if lead badly can hurt and I'm not one to hurt a partner.

I hate to say it, but I think you've been whooshed there... :blush:

(as in that's the sound of the sarcastic joke going over your head) :friend:

[Clueless]

I hate to say it, but I think you've been whooshed there... :blush:

(as in that's the sound of the sarcastic joke going over your head) :friend:

:doh:

it went by at a fair rate of knots!

Yeah, gullible is my midddle name :blush:

[Wuzzle]

Just remember Clueless 'your partner number 1' :wink: rest should be simple...

I remember complex moves as broken down simple moves. I'll do both as long as am sure I can lead it without injuring my partner and myself :whistle:

[geoff332]

If dancing is taught properly, every move's a beginner's variation. That is, when dancing focuses on teaching dancing rather than moves, the moves you do in a beginner's class should be done with the intention of learning the essential techniques (or movements) for the dance style. One improves as a dancer by mastering the techniques. Advanced moves are nothing more than amalgamations of the core techniques; they combine, sharpen and extend the techniques. So while in a basic, beginner's move, we might do one thing at a time, more complex and advanced moves might have us doing three or four things at once or in close succession.

So a truly advanced dancer will do most moves with good form: that is, with good and correct technique (including partner dancing and musicality). The 'advancedness' of the move is largely determined by the dancer, not the move. Some moves I consider relatively simple, other people have told me they find complex. There are other moves which are not very hard that I struggle with - simply because the style of the move doesn't suit the way I'm built and like to dance. Some moves - both 'simple' and 'complex' - I do better with different types of dancers. So a move that I would find really tricky with one partner I find really easy with another. To put that another way, most moves are complex until you (and your partner) master them at which point, they become, comparatively, simple.

For me, I enjoy dancing most when we both do whatever moves we do well: when I lead them well, she follows them well. For me, that means the follow needs really good technique, in particular a frame to work off. But we also need great connection with one another and with the music. And we need to enjoy one another.

None of what I prefer in a dance is determined by the moves. There is a certain pleasure in mastering a tricky move with a partner, but that's only a small part of what I enjoy and if that's the only thing I do in a dance then it's not going to be a particularly memorable dance. It's nice to have a couple of cracking moves that you can throw in to a dance that's going well and make it something extra special. I do think that it's important to select the right moves for that dance. But the defining characteristic of a great dance is never the moves.

[bigdjiver]

...There is a certain pleasure in mastering a tricky move with a partner, but that's only a small part of what I enjoy and if that's the only thing I do in a dance then it's not going to be a particularly memorable dance. It's nice to have a couple of cracking moves that you can throw in to a dance that's going well and make it something extra special. I do think that it's important to select the right moves for that dance. But the defining characteristic of a great dance is never the moves.I had a super night at the Bedford Corn Exchange Friday. I cannot remember enjoying a freestyle more. The highlights of the night, for me, and I believe my partners, were a couple of dances with two different partners where we just played with the music, trying, and failing a lot of the time, doing all sorts of different things in the music.

Absolute top of the night was me trying to teach a completely new to me partner a complex choreographed sequence of moves. Well into No-No territory on the forums. First try -absolute rubbish - second she got the gist of the move - third time we did it. Not only was partner having the time of her life, but we had a mini-audience of at least five that were enjoying it along with us.

OTOH there are women that are absolute dreams doing just the basic moves. I love that too. MJ lets you fit moment, mood and music, and there are more answers than questions. I believe in doing what partner and I enjoy, and if "rules" are being broken it adds spice.

[bubblyblondenutter]

The only things that I would prefer not to be led into are dips and drops. .. I can only really cope with dips from the leads who know my limitations. I am not able to practice much at the moment, and so I am effectively only beginning the Intermediate classes - as a result I haven't done that many dips or other complicated moves in class....

(No drops at all please! 2 leads only excepted from this rule so far :worthy: :clap: :flower: )




Everything else I will be willing to try and learn if I haven't met it yet .... just warn me in advance of dips
:cheers:

Whitetiger

i know exactly what you mean. there are some people i feel comfortable with because they know my ability and i feel i can trust them. only been dancing for 4 months so still learning lots of new things.

[jim]

As a follow and assuming equal degrees of skill, fluidity etc, would you prefer to be led in simple moves, complicated moves, challenging moves, a mixture or is it all just follow?

This may or may not be a little off topic, but as a lead if you become overly concerned with giving the follower the dance you think she wants you can end up 'back leading yourself'.

You can end up trying to follow someone who's trying to follow you:confused:.

So the questions really on the lead. Do you like simple or complex moves?


Anyway back on topic; Generally I think Shaina Twain 'that don't impress me much' followed by Cyndi Lauper 'girls just want to have fun', seems to pretty much sum it up.:grin:

[bubblyblondenutter]

i think simple moves can look really good when done properly and i enjoy the challenge with complex moves

[Prian]

Sylvia Coleman the co-founder of Ceroc (showing my age a bit), once told me that complicated or simple moves should be related somewhat to the tempo of the music. Fast songs = simpler moves, slow songs = more complicated moves and mid-tempo songs = mixture of both. Sounds simple but I have tried to follow this and have found it works very well.