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Sarah B
28th-May-2003, 10:01 AM
After the invasion of the Australians over the last month I was beginning to believe that the only good dancers were from the southern hemisphere.........

That was until the performances this weekend. On Saturday Nigel & Nina completely over shadowed the Australian contingent with an awesome cabaret at the Anzac Ball.

Then on Sunday at the Jive Masters Simon Selmon beat one of the top Australian couples (Nicky Haslam) with a performance full of musicality and originality.

It's a pity that our top dancers never enter any of the competitions therefore always allowing the Australians to take away the prizes!!!!!

Mike
28th-May-2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Sarah B
After the invasion of the Australians over the last month I was beginning to believe that the only good dancers were from the southern hemisphere.........

That was until the performances this weekend. On Saturday Nigel & Nina completely over shadowed the Australian contingent with an awesome cabaret at the Anzac Ball.3 amazing Cabarets, all very entertaining/professional. Can?t really say which one was best because they were all very different although my favorite was performed by C&J.

Divissima
28th-May-2003, 12:12 PM
I agree with Mike - all three cabarets were amazing and entertaining, each in their own way. Although I had a favourite among them, I don't think I could ever say that one particular couple 'overshadowed' the others - it's just my opinion as to which one appealed to me more.

Mike
28th-May-2003, 04:50 PM
It's a pity that our top dancers never enter any of the competitions therefore always allowing the Australians to take away the prizes!!!!! [/B][/QUOTE]



I agree that it would be amazing if our top dancers did compete, I would like nothing more than to see N&N, V&L & Simon Selman & others go head to head with C&J, Nicky Haslem, Deb & Ben. There is an amazing range of dance styles among these 6, all with very different strengths & weaknesses.

Very impressive information in Torque recently, It was announced that C&J have won in total 9 Jive Championships & 2nd in a further 6. Something that I just can’t comprehend. Have C&J won this amount because the best dancers haven’t entered or do they just simply have the best Competition style (if there is such a thing)?

JamesGeary
28th-May-2003, 09:49 PM
I think it's because they're the only couple around that can dance consistently well to most types of music at most speeds, and at competitions they always play a range of music at a range of speeds.

All of the other dancers mentioned above are brilliant, but only within their particular range of music. And they rarely compete.

Will
28th-May-2003, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Mike
I agree that it would be amazing if our top dancers did compete, I would like nothing more than to see N&N, V&L & Simon Selman & others go head to head with C&J, Nicky Haslem, Deb & Ben. There is an amazing range of dance styles among these 6, all with very different strengths & weaknesses.

Very impressive information in Torque recently, It was announced that C&J have won in total 9 Jive Championships & 2nd in a further 6. Something that I just can’t comprehend. Have C&J won this amount because the best dancers haven’t entered or do they just simply have the best Competition style (if there is such a thing)? [/B]

Two small points of order.

1. Nikki Haslem is a Pomme
2. Torque is actually spelt Torquay



I thankyou

Will
28th-May-2003, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by JamesGeary
I think it's because they're the only couple around that can dance consistently well to most types of music at most speeds, and at competitions they always play a range of music at a range of speeds.

All of the other dancers mentioned above are brilliant, but only within their particular range of music. And they rarely compete.
I know James is far to modest to mention this, but I saw him dancing to Manilow's "I write the song's" in a club recently. Amazing!

Jiving John
30th-May-2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by JamesGeary

All of the other dancers mentioned above are brilliant, but only within their particular range of music. And they rarely compete.
Not sure thats completely true. I undersytand that Simon Selmon is a Blues champion as well as winning lots of Lindy Competitions which proves he can dance well to very different tempos.

I've only done one workshop with N&N in Blues, but I understand that they are also very versitile and can dance lots of different styles.

Your right about the competitions however as it seems that the top dancers in the UK aren't really motivated to enter the Jive competitions in the same way that the Australians appear to be.

I don't think that C&J have ever competed against Simon Selmon, V&L or N&N. It would be damn interesting to see who would come out on top ..... but then who would judge?

JamesGeary
30th-May-2003, 04:26 PM
J&C and Simon Selmon & partner ARE competing against each other.

They are both through to the finals for www.cerocmetro 's competition.

The audience will be the judges.

Hey Adam, want to send me a free ticket! I'm promoting your compeition!!

TheTramp
30th-May-2003, 04:29 PM
Actually. J&C won't be competing in the final (this is what Clayton told me on Sunday - I hope that there turns out to be a way though), the final had to be on September 20th, as that was the only time Adam could get the hall, and J&C will be in Australia then. :(

Hey. Can I get a free ticket to the finals too?? :D

Steve

Hillel
31st-May-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Mike
It's a pity that our top dancers never enter any of the competitions therefore always allowing the Australians to take away the prizes!!!!!

It was announced that C&J have won in total 9 Jive Championships & 2nd in a further 6. Something that I just can’t comprehend. Have C&J won this amount because the best dancers haven’t entered or do they just simply have the best Competition style (if there is such a thing)?


I think there are a number of factors that contribute to Janine and Clayton’s success in Champs, and the lack of consistent success for other couples:

1) Commitment to the partnership. People seem to forget that the number one factor in a couple doing consistently well in competitions is that they stay together! Think about other couples that have done well recently: Lily and James – separated, Ray and Sophie – separated, Steve and Sophie – separated, Naomi and Clinton (Aussies who came second a couple of years ago) – separated, Hayley and James - separated. The list is endless, and Nigel and Nina stand out as a British couple that have stayed together for a long time and consistently competed successfully.

People don’t realise that there is a huge challenge in just keeping a partnership going – and that’s irrespective of whether they have achieved a good result. Janine and Clayton have managed to keep a relationship going AND a dance partnership, and that is no easy feat given the tensions that arise when dancing, choreographing and practising.

2) Commitment to dancing. Nina/Nigel and Janine/Clayton had in common that they danced excellently not only in freestyle, but also did great showcases. Showcases take a huge time and effort commitment, and whilst I doubt these couples spent much time on their freestyle, you can be sure they spent hours and hours, playing/creating new moves, trying to interpret music, and practising moves. In my view this has a definite impact on your dancing generally, and you can be sure that both couples spent huge amounts of time practising and dancing together. Of course, the more time you spend dancing wit one partner, the more opportunity to get your dancing smooth.

3) Knowing how to win. Doing well at dance comps isn’t about being the best dancers. It isn’t even about being the best dancers on the day – everyone you ask will differ on who wins using that criteria. It’s about being best at what the judges like to see. Sure, you need to be GOOD dancers to do that, you also have to be an experienced competitor, and know what the judges want to see. Sure, you can not do most of that and do well sometimes. But to do it consistently requires knowing what the judges want to see, so you are always in with a chance. J & C, plus N & N, have both proved themselves to be masters of that craft.

4) Persistence. C & J may have won a number of comps, but they’ve also coped with a number of huge disappointments. I’ve seen them placed second and third numerous times where I thought they were best and they really expected to win. A lot of couples can’t cope with that. Put hours and hours of practice into a Showcase that doesn’t win? Many just give up the ghost. But J & C manage to relax and enjoy the experience. They can put their defeats behind them and come bouncing back better than ever. Those are rare traits.

Meanwhile, C & J have always remained friendly, cheerful and approachable. They are two of the most genuine and nice people in dancing. I don’t owe C & J any favours, but would have to say they are always a pleasure to watch, and real ambassadors for dancing. C & J have not proved to be an unbeatable combination in Comps. They get beaten all the time – just very rarely by a couple that have managed to repeat the feat.

DavidB
31st-May-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Hillel
1) Commitment to the partnership...
{snip}
. the tensions that arise when dancing, choreographing and practising.Sometimes commitment to the partnership is the reason why people don't compete.


2) Commitment to dancing....
... Showcases take a huge time and effort commitmentA new showcase, starting from scratch, takes us about 6 months. That is 6 months of practising 3 times a week, going to the gym 3 times a week, being careful about what you eat, etc. There all the 'discussions' about the music, the choreography, the lifts etc. But most importantly it is 6 months where you don't have the time to go out dancing. And I've got to the stage where I'd rather dance.


3) Knowing how to win. Doing well at dance comps isn’t about being the best dancers. It isn’t even about being the best dancers on the day – everyone you ask will differ on who wins using that criteria. It’s about being best at what the judges like to see.I agree. Unfortunately I don't like my own dancing if I try to dance a 'competition' style. Trying to cram as many tricks as possible into 4 minutes is more an exercise in stamina, memory and time management than leading and following and dancing to the music.


4) Persistence...
{not winning}A lot of couples can’t cope with that. Put hours and hours of practice into a Showcase that doesn’t win?My best results were a 3rd and a couple of 4ths. Why - because I enjoyed the experience. I personally have no interest in what the judges thought of my dancing unless they could tell me 'why'.

There are other reasons why people don't compete:
- Rules. The showcase at Blackpool is supposed to be 20% modern jive, and we have never had any modern jive in our routines. (As it turns out this rule seems to be optional...)
- Cost. It costs a lot of money to put together a routine - hiring practice studios, costumes, entry fees, etc.
- Injuries.
- Practice. A lot of very good dancers would like to be able just to turn up on the day, have maybe one warm-up track, and then see what happens. It would be a real freestyle competition. But currently you have to spend weeks working out and practicing all your choreographed moves and tricks. To me that is not really freestyle any more.
- Relaxation. When I've competed in the past, I hardly see anything else. I'm either warming up, cooling down, trying to eat, practicing, etc. I enjoyed Blackpool and London because all I had to worry about was getting a good view!

But I agree with what Hillel said - Clayton and Janine deserve their success.

David

Gus
1st-June-2003, 07:28 PM
Intersting debate....

Personal view .... major problems up North is actually living close enough to someone good enough to compete with at the top level. There is probably about 6 'Advanced' level male dancers in the North ... and about the same for females .... but getting together to be able to practice is a major challenge. Me and my partner (Helen) have given up on major competitions because we simply can't get any decent practice time in. Since Blackpool I think we've managed the grand total of about a dozen tracks:sad:

In the North West there are probably no more than 2 lasses anywhere near Helen's standard (and I need ALL the help I can get) and either they are already in a dance couple, dance a different style and/or simply have a little time as me available.. I know that the same issues affect the other dancers up North ...... so how do we manage to get any Northern couples together who can put the time in to compete with the South ... never mind the aussies???

Paul F
1st-June-2003, 11:38 PM
Hmmmm, you seem to have answered a question I have been wondering about recently Gus.

I am moving back up to Manchester in a couple of months from London and was wondering how many people are at an advanced level in the North West.

I know i shouldnt really use the word 'advanced' but im sure you know what I mean.

I was kind of hoping myself that i may be lucky enough to find a dance partner for possilbe comps. I guess i will just have to wait and see :(

Deb
2nd-June-2003, 08:56 AM
Just a thought about getting dancers together....

Why don't the advanced dancers attempt to (and I use the words "attempt to" because this an extremely hard task) select a regular time that you can get together outside of normal class times, perhaps on the weekend, and hire a space to workshop ideas together as a group.

You wouldn't necessarily need to all be working on the same thing ie: a team cabaret, but just using the space at the same time, working on your partnerships as well as sharing the hire cost.

I know that hiring dance space is expensive in the UK but if you have a regular group of about 8 people who are willing to contribute to space hire you might find it more affordable than doing it just with your partner.

You said that people live/work far away from one another so perhaps if you had a longer rehearsal time that would make it worthwhile for people to travel the distances they need to to actually get some practice time in.

You could also alternate between venues so that people only travel a greater distance every couple of weeks...

BTW: I live on the other side of the world so obviously I don't know how far you mean when you say people don't live close enough to dance with them regularly ie: I am not too sure how far you actually mean.

Anyway, These are just a few things that came to mind when I read your messages. I hope this is useful.

Deb

Gus
2nd-June-2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by Paul F

I was kind of hoping myself that i may be lucky enough to find a dance partner for possilbe comps. I guess i will just have to wait and see :(

Urrrr ... may have 'undersold' the North. What I meant to say, and don't think I conveyed it very well ... is that there are a number of advanced ladies in the area who are advanced but a clash of dance styles and my new workload get in the way.

If you are good enough (:wink:) I can highly recommend Paula (Teacher at Blitz Chester), Clare D (Demo for me and Bowden), Lynne (diito) and possibly Jo (Ceroc teacher Nantwich). There are a number of other excellent dancers who seem to have dissappeared recently or dont seem to want to compete. There are also probably some other lasses knocking about who I've not seen or whom I've forgotten who will skin me alive later for dissing them :tears:

Be not afraid, I'm sure you will find someone to match up with ... we are pretty friendly bunnies up North.

Gadget
3rd-June-2003, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by Gus
Urrrr ... may have 'undersold' the North.
Isn't it amazing how "Up North" is thought of as 'above London' - this is the Ceroc Scotland forum - "Up North" is Dundee, Aberdeen and Inverness!! {although I don't think that Ceroc's tenticals have quite reached that far... yet}

Dreadful Scathe
3rd-June-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Gadget
Isn't it amazing how "Up North" is thought of as 'above London' -

Yeah , buncha soft southern nancy boys the lot of em :)

Chicklet
3rd-June-2003, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Yeah , buncha soft southern nancy boys the lot of em :)

And the Smurf at the back
said "everyone attack"
and it turned into a (Beach) Ballroom Blitz

spindr
3rd-June-2003, 12:51 PM
Not so much interested in the soft southern nancy boys -- but if are any Soft Southern (*) Nancy's (Jane's, Dora's, Hermione's,...) that want to compete (for fun) at Bristol / Brighton --- drop me a message / email.

(*) Hampshire, any more south and your socks get wet.

Neil.
P.S. Nigel and Nina at Jivebug this Thursday.

Gus
3rd-June-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
Isn't it amazing how "Up North" is thought of as 'above London' -

Says WHO? Up North to me is anything North of Stoke ....:wink:

Will
4th-June-2003, 01:01 AM
Of course if you're sampling the spicier dishes at your local curry house, "Up North" and "Down South" can take on a whole new meaning. :sick: :drool: :confused: