Intellect or emotion?

[Jayne]

OK so there's only one thread going at the moment that's really talking about dancing so I thought I'd post a new one...

When you're dancing which is more important to you - intellect or emotion?

Let me expand...

By intellect I mean things like knowing the background to your dance - for example if you're dancing Arg. Tango it has its roots in the brothels of Buenos Aires where the men would outnumber the women. Consequently if a bloke stood any chance of "winning" a girl he had to be a good dancer and seduce the girl through the dance. If you were dancing or watching Arg Tango would knowing this improve your enjoyment of the dance? Another example is the Vienese Waltz which was originally danced by men in uniform with long swords at their side - the reason why you have a very upright posture when you do this dance comes from the times when the man had to stand tall otherwise he'd get into trouble with his sword....

Or are you an emotion person? Is it more important to you that you are connecing with your partner and you couldn't give a wild monkey about the history of the dance or what the dance is supposed to represent? When you're watching a couple dance do you prefer to see them connecting or portraying a connection (for example Ash & his partner in the Phantom od the Opera showcase at Blackpool) or would you rather see a technically correct dance?

Does your opinion on the importance of intellect over emotion (or vice versa) change depending on whether you're dancing or watching a dance?

Which one is more important when working on dance style??

I know that most people would say that it's all about having a balance of the two - I'm not dusputing that. What I am asking is if you *had* to choose between the two options, which one would you go for?

Enjoy!

Jayne
:nice:

PS Apologies to StuartM who had to bare the brunt of my slightly drunk argumentative state a few months ago when we were discussing this....

[Aleks]

Originally posted by Jayne
would you rather see a technically correct dance?

Depends what type of dance Im watching.

I hate to see technically incorrect classical ballet, just because (at least for me) this is a style of dance that needs to be technically correct (and I spent a lot of years having that technique drummed into me and then insisting on it from my pupils!). [Is there any kind of technique in modern/contemporary dance??????]

For other kinds of dance I'd probably choose emotion over technique. There's nothing more off-putting than that plastic smile that competition ballroom dancers sport.....

[TheTramp]

Emotion totally. Well. Except for fun. That's what's supposed to come first :D

Steve

[Wendy]

Emotion 100% every time to watch and to dance. No question for me. The fact that there might be a "history" a "reason" or "rules" for the type or style of dancing is irrelevant if it isn't translated into an emotion "fear from that sword " for instance !! or "Jees I want you bad cos there aren't enough woman to go round" .... if that's an emotion ??? :confused:

The technicality (?) of dance, like ballet, leaves me cold to some extent and maybe that's why there needs to be a story... well in the older ballet...Swan Lake and stuff..... That doesn't mean to say I don't admire the skill and am totally in awe of the work that must be involved to reach that peak of perfection and level of fitness... it just doesn't move me... and I want to be moved...well that Mikial Gorbachov guy (can't remember his name !!! you know the one !!!) moves me even if he just stood still... like Linford Christie....or Joaquin Cortes ... whew need another bath....

I couldn't have cared less about Torville and Dean's triple salso skip delux pas de bas thing....(I know this is skating !!!)... it's the emotion that bowled me over ... or when the Roxanne couple do their thing.. it''s the combination of the music and their interpretation of the music... I am close to tears every time I see that.. not sure if the emotion was all I wanted though cos perhaps they were technically too good if that is possible or if it even makes sense :confused: again!!! But hey when did emotions ever make sense ????

IMHO (think that's a first !!!... very :confused: !!!!)

Wxxx

[DavidB]

I'm not sure that 'intellect' is the right aspect to consider. One of the examples you gave - the history of Argentine Tango - has far more influence on the emotion of the dance than anything else. And would Ash & Kim's routine have meant anywhere near as much if you didn't know the story of the Phantom Of The Opera? The other example is more revealing - how the history has affected the technique of the dance.

Emotion and bad technique is just bad dancing. Good technique and no emotion is boring. Personally I wouldn't want to watch either.

For me technique is the basis of the dance that you need to have. Particularly for a partner dance like Modern Jive, if your lack of technique affects your partner then you need to improve. (Technique in modern jive is considerably easier than in other forms of dancing. It just has 2 main parts - leading/following, and musicality. I have enough problems coping with that!)

But if you have good technique, then you can take it from a 'physical activity' to a 'dance'.

David

[horsey_dude]

My understanding of brothels was that you didn't need to be good at anything to seduce the girls you just had to have money....




Originally posted by Jayne

Arg. Tango it has its roots in the brothels of Buenos Aires where the men would outnumber the women. Consequently if a bloke stood any chance of "winning" a girl he had to be a good dancer and seduce the girl through the dance.

[John S]

Emotion and bad technique is just bad dancing. Good technique and no emotion is boring.
I'm sure DavidB is a wonderful dancer and very easy for the ladies to follow, but when it comes to following on from one of his messages it's just sooooo difficult - not because there's anything at all wrong except that he's just so sensible and manages to put things so well!

There was I, reading through the earlier stuff, agreeing with Wendy as she emoted all over her keyboard, then realising that David got it exactly right. I can't add anything worthwhile to his contribution but I'm sure others will try!!

[John S]

Originally posted by horsey_dude
My understanding of brothels
And how extensive is this?????

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by horsey_dude
My understanding of brothels was that you didn't need to be good at anything to seduce the girls you just had to have money....

oooooh quickest ever off topic / new thread invitation??? - has anything changed??:devil:

[DavidB]

Originally posted by John S
I'm sure DavidB is a wonderful dancer and very easy for the ladies to follow, but when it comes to following on from one of his messages it's just sooooo difficult - not because there's anything at all wrong except that he's just so sensible and manages to put things so well![/i] I do my best to start an argument, and fail miserably. I'll leave it to Gus in future...

[Wendy]

Originally posted by DavidB
I do my best to start an argument, and fail miserably. I'll leave it to Gus in future... Have to say I agree with you too... but I'm going to TRY to disagree goddammit !!!....

Wxxx

[Wendy]

Originally posted by DavidB
For me technique is the basis of the dance that you need to have. Particularly for a partner dance like Modern Jive, if your lack of technique affects your partner then you need to improve. Spose I was taking it for granted that you have a modicum of technique... well when it comes to CEROC anyway... most people can do a first move... it's HOW they do it and what they are PUTTING into it and how they are FEELING the MUSIC which makes it electrifying to watch or when you dance with them.......

"no music = no emotion = no dance"

not

"no technique = no dance"

perhaps ????

(Hope the capitals make it look like I'm really disagreeing with DavidB and making a very strong and valid point which he'll have to come back to... shaking and grovelling....hey a girl can dream !!! He's such a good dancer I don't care what he thinks anyway !!!! Always nice to oblige the onlookers wanting a fight though....)

Wxxx

[Ash]

When it comes to intellect/emotion I think of it as, loosely, dancing from the outside and the inside.

You see people dancing from the outside when it’s just a series of moves they’re performing (it’s almost an intellectual exercise.) They do lots of moves/drops with no thought of the ‘connection’ with the partner, musical interpretation, having fun…they can also be more aware of the ‘audience’ than the person in front of them.

But a person who is dancing from the inside will ‘connect’ with their partner and is more aware of the ‘emotion’ of the dance…so it’s not a case of how many moves you do but the ‘emotional’ contact with the person. (Did you have fun etc.)

When it comes to cabarets the same principles apply…when I plan my showcases I always think of the audience first. I think if you do a series of flashy moves with no purpose/meaning/emotion etc. it’s a bit like a special effects film without story/plot/characters etc. Technique is very important but by itself is sterile…

[Wendy]

Beautifully put, Ash. Not going to disagree... not even a teeny weeny bit...

Wxxx

[horsey_dude]

I would answer this but unfortunately I have been accused of going off topic.


Originally posted by John S
And how extensive is this?????

[Aleks]

Originally posted by horsey_dude
I would answer this but unfortunately I have been accused of going off topic.

Since when did that stop any of us??

Go on.....:grin: :wink:

[horsey_dude]

They do exist in a balance and I don't think you can have one without the other. I love dancing where the dance matches the music and flows, but if my partner is wrenching my arms and throwing herself all over the place or just not following at all then this does not happen. When I am dancing with a good partner to a song that I like then there is no concious thought, every move just happens naturally after the last in keeping with what the music is doing.

I love that look you get from someone that you have just started dancing with for the first time and they realise that this isn't going to be just a move, return, move, return, spin, return dance.... If the woman is a good dancer they will go from just walking through the moves (going through the motions) and really dancing!





Originally posted by Jayne

When you're dancing which is more important to you - intellect or emotion?

Does your opinion on the importance of intellect over emotion (or vice versa) change depending on whether you're dancing or watching a dance?

Which one is more important when working on dance style??

I know that most people would say that it's all about having a balance of the two - I'm not dusputing that. What I am asking is if you *had* to choose between the two options, which one would you go for?

[Gadget]

Emotion 110%.

In my mind, it's experience {ie move and style knowledge} that is used to create the illusion of emotion through a dance; Why should the lore {ie historic knowledge} of how a move/dance/style came about be important?
I agree that when you are dancing, knowing the a reason behind every action within a move makes the dance better. (...you raise a hand for a return, it is slightly to the side so that your partner will begin to follow it in the correct direction; you movie your hand above her centre when she starts to follow so that you don't over-balance her; you draw a small circle to convey the speed you want her to turn; you position yourself as she is just coming round to face so that the next part of the move is more fluid...) This is the technical knowledge I think on when dancing/watching. When on the floor, it's only consciously thought through when I am trying to work out how to get a lady into a specific move. When watching it's only after I see a move that impresses me and I think "How?".

However knowledge that this move was developed from a Tango move where Argentinean farm boy trying to get into his partner's pants neither adds or subtracts from the viewing or dancing experience.
But it's not just the knowledge of moves, but the knowledge of styles can be applied to your dancing to convey emotion; inject some Latin passion for close moves, jazz fun for fast moves, stage ballet's drama for some distance moves, cool negligence for some others.

I think that if you have to use the intellect too much, you don't enjoy yourself, and if you don't enjoy your self, then you are not dancing.

[Jon]

Definatly Emotion. And I agree with everything Ash said. When there is no connection between me and my partner I'm just dancing moves to a song and it can feel that I'm dancing with myself. Now wheres the fun in that.

Yet when the eye contact, the smiles, the attitude and your both up for fun and a laugh element is there then the dance is a 1000% better. Musical interpretation then just happens naturally, and you don't need to be experienced dancers to do this. I've had one of my best dances ever with a beginner on her first night just because we emotonaly connected.

[Fran]

Originally posted by John S
I'm sure DavidB is a wonderful dancer and very easy for the ladies to followi]

simply fabby!!:nice:
with the pacientice of a saint as well!

fran:nice:

ps. sorry all you spellers i know its wrong but i cant figure it out. :tears: and ive given up trying.. Frank is there a spell check on this forum to click on?:confused:

[Bill]

agree with everyone .....:D :wink: ...well it's Sunday night and I've had several glasses of wine so in a good mood :cheers:

But emotion is paramount I would suggest ( assuming both dancers have some ability). But I've seen some excellent and technically wonderful dancers ( and I can think of 2 who do well at competitions) who I feel have no emotion and so leave me cold.

although trained dancers can 'fake' the emotion I think it adds everything to a dance.....wasn't that in another thread - Wendy didn't you mention acting - and the problems of dancing with your partner on the 'sleaze' thread ????

There are songs that makle me feel 'emotional' and so I get into the song and that may ( or may not) come out while I dance. But even if the emotion is fun - and having seen some superb dancers - courtesy of David & Lily's tapes - it's the connection between two individuals - and the combination of expertise and emotion that can take it to a higher level.

Sorry if this makes no sense - I'll blame the wine
:wink: :sick:

[Jayne]

Right, let's get away from spelling debates (mine are all typos, BTW, not poor spelling... :wink: ) and get back on topic...

So the general feeling is that it's emotion that we look for in a dance. It's interesting that this is also true for when we're watching a dance. So is watching a dance completely different to viewing another art form - like a painting or a film or listening to a piece of music?

For example... I think most people have seen Schindler's List. It's a very powerful film and we certainly get an impression of the emotions felt by the characters. But would our appreciation of the film be different if we didn't know anything about the holocaust? I think that knowing some of the history about the era, beyond what's portrayed in the film, only intensifies how I feel when I see it.

So why doesn't the same apply to watching people dance? Why we do not make a connection about what the dance is supposed to be about (the history of the dance, or the "intellectual" component) and the emotion the dancers are portraying?

Anyone?
Jayne :nice:

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by Jayne

So why doesn't the same apply to watching people dance? Why we do not make a connection about what the dance is supposed to be about (the history of the dance, or the "intellectual" component) and the emotion the dancers are portraying?

Anyone?
Jayne :nice:

I think we do, (and I completely agree with what you say about Schindler's list too - much more emotional when one knows the background) - but perhaps we do it subconsiously and not in the front of the mind?

The example that comes to my mind - and I hope I manage to put this across properly - is "tribal" (African, Aboriginal?) dancing.

I would probably switch this kind of thing off the telly or walk away from it after a glance as street theatre and I certainly wouldn't pay to watch it but people for whom this forms part of their culture (and / or who know the history and the (intellectual?) meaning behind it) will, I think, get a lot more out of it.

yes?, no?

C

[DavidY]

Originally posted by Jayne
So why doesn't the same apply to watching people dance? Why we do not make a connection about what the dance is supposed to be about (the history of the dance, or the "intellectual" component) and the emotion the dancers are portraying?Does every dance have to be "about" something? (Discuss...)
I'm pretty sure that when I dance, it doesn't have an underlying message every time. (Not that I claim to be a great dancer with either intellect or emotion, mind you).

David

[Jayne]

Originally posted by DavidY
Does every dance have to be "about" something? (Discuss...)
David

Oh.. this could be a new thread...

A dance to an single record doesn't have to be about anything specific. When I'm out freestyling I just dance for the sake of it (maybe that's why I've "gone off" dancing...) and I don't think I'm alone there...

The "about" that I'm getting at is the history of the dance - like making a paso look like a bull fight. I think this aspect of the dance usually comes out more in a showcase rather than on a normal freestyle dance floor.

Jayne
:nice:

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Jayne
So the general feeling is that it's emotion that we look for in a dance. It's interesting that this is also true for when we're watching a dance. So is watching a dance completely different to viewing another art form - like a painting or a film or listening to a piece of music?
I don't think that you can draw a comparison unless you are talking about set pieces {show cases?} performed on a stage - most artwork viewed {films, paintings, sculptures...} has been worked on for a time with preliminary sketches, then fleshed out and grown as the piece has developed into the final product you see.
If you are watching a normal couple dance on the dance-floor, it's like flicking through a sketch book rather than looking at a finished piece of artwork.

So why doesn't the same apply to watching people dance? Why we do not make a connection about what the dance is supposed to be about (the history of the dance, or the "intellectual" component) and the emotion the dancers are portraying?
I think that the same does apply when watching people dance - in an actual performance. However you only really get to watch these performances in showcases.

You can create 'art' for personal pleasure and you can create 'art' for display. Both may be just as good and just as rewarding. Both may be loaded with emotion. But only the 'art' created for display was actually intended to convey emotion to the viewer or be about somthing.
So in answer to David B's question, I propose that no; dancing does not always have to be about somthing, but can be. And if it's a show case, then should be.

[bigdjiver]

Jayne wrote: So the general feeling is that it's emotion that we look for in a dance. It's interesting that this is also true for when we're watching a dance.

It cannot be just emotion. otherwise we would just be watching people ... well, you get my drift.

and: For example... I think most people have seen Schindler's List. It's a very powerful film ... would our appreciation of the film be different if we didn't know anything about the holocaust? I think that knowing some of the history about the era, beyond what's portrayed in the film, only intensifies how I feel when I see it.

Learning later that Schindler was responsible for supplying the fake Polish uniforms that were used to fake the "attack" that was the excuse for starting the war certainly changed my perception of the film. I felt cheated.

and: So why doesn't the same apply to watching people dance? Why we do not make a connection about what the dance is supposed to be about (the history of the dance, or the "intellectual" component) and the emotion the dancers are portraying?

Dance is about what the dancers express and their audience perceive. It can express history, or make it.

DavidY wrote: Does every dance have to be "about" something?

Yes, or else why do it.

and:I'm pretty sure that when I dance, it doesn't have an underlying message every time.

No "I like to dance with you? or "I like to dance to this tune"


Jayne: The "about" that I'm getting at is the history of the dance - like making a paso look like a bull fight.

A lot of my dances look like a bull fight.

Dreadful Scathe: I guess some peoples ability to remove themselves from reality is diffrent from others

I treat dance as separate from the real world, a form of acting.

Jayne: thank you gadget - it certainly wont be the last time - my pupils correct my spelling. I pretty up front about being dyslexic. Mine aren't typos.

I cut short my standard sermon against rigid spelling - The paragraph about dyslexics and English as an additional language as valuable contributors is usually next. Another para says text message Engish is evolution at work.

[John S]

Originally posted by Fran
Do we need to analise it so much???
Oh, I do hope not.
:sick:

[Siobhan (Forum Plant)]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
Dance is about what the dancers express and their audience perceive. It can express history, or make it...... I treat dance as separate from the real world, a form of acting.


Agreed bigD, there's a lot of drama for me- it captures me completely, takes me to another place. I usually go to dancing feeling knackered, fed up, etc. and come away exhilarated- every time!

[Lou]

Originally posted by Gadget
IWill someone tell me where the real world begins? Is that the bit that interrupts the dancing ? :D :waycool: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.
:wink:

[Franck]

Originally posted by Jayne
When you're dancing which is more important to you - intellect or emotion? Hmmm, slowly catching up with this thread...

Initially, I was going to choose emotion, but on balance I find both to be fun and ultimately, neither... :what:

Fun is probably the most important factor for me, and by this I mean a relaxed, open-minded approach to dancing, technique and intellect have their place, but only if they don't stop you from enjoying the dance. I am not really *that* interested in the history of dancing, at least not when on the dance floor.
Emotions are also important, but I would rather view it in terms of communication... you talk, your partner responds, and then you respond back, following the music... Maybe this is highly emotional, but I don't think it has to be, just like not all good conversation have to have emotional undertones.

Not sure if I have answered the original question, but maybe I have broadened the spectrum slightly... :nice:

Franck.

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Franck
~snip~ I would rather view it in terms of communication... you talk, your partner responds, and then you respond back, following the music... Maybe this is highly emotional, but I don't think it has to be, just like not all good conversation have to have emotional undertones.
I seem to remember you using this anology before - a conversation between the two dancers: I think that it's a bit too "cold" though - it's more like flirting or chatting someone up than sitting over a cup of tea, having a conversation about the weather.

[Ash]

I would rather view it in terms of communication... you talk, your partner responds, and then you respond back, following the music...

I think Franck has got it spot on. Like all good conversation dancing should be a two way thing where it's an equal partnership...the worst thing is somebody 'talking at you'. And the conversation could encompass many things: sexiness, fun, playfulness...

[Franck]

Originally posted by Gadget
I seem to remember you using this anology before - a conversation between the two dancers: I think that it's a bit too "cold" though - it's more like flirting or chatting someone up than sitting over a cup of tea, having a conversation about the weather. I don't think a conversation has to be cold at all... Surely a conversation can be anything, including flirting is that's what you want, a conversation can be heated, it can be intense, it can be silent, loud, animated, filled with laughter etc...
Or maybe that's just my conversations... :wink:

I don't think flirting is a necessary element of partner dancing but communicating is.

I wonder if there is a link between how good you are at leading / following and how good a listener you are?

Franck.

[Chicklet]

Franck,

what do combs signify/represent in a conversation????

:devil: :wink:

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
We learn slowly as a race it seems.Not at all: seemingly English is the hardest language in the world to learn, but is also the most expressive.
Originally posted by Frank
~snip~Or maybe that's just my conversations... naaa - I think that I'm confusing small-talk with conversation. You only really have a conversation with people you know (unless you click with the small-talk)

I don't think flirting is a necessary element of partner dancing but communicating is.
not necessary, but way more fun! :D :waycool:
It also can be hard to distinguish between intense focus on a person and flirting with them.

I wonder if there is a link between how good you are at leading / following and how good a listener you are?...interesting...unfortunatly I don't spend much time vocally conversing when dancing {too much brain power used in trying to dance} and I'm never off the dance floor long enough to strike up a conversation, so I can't comment.

[Franck]

Originally posted by Chicklet
what do combs signify/represent in a conversation????

:devil: :wink: :rofl:

It all depends on what's being discussed and whom you are talking with :wink:

It probably is the equivalent of leaning forward as you get more involved in the conversation...

... or maybe it's just that I need to change hands, or brush the hair of my forehead :wink:

Ironically, while (allegedly :innocent: ) I love Combs, I find them one of the hardest moves to lead with a Beginner...

Franck.

[Franck]

Originally posted by Gadget
naaa - I think that I'm confusing small-talk with conversation. You only really have a conversation with people you know (unless you click with the small-talk) Nooooo, small talk dancing is probably the rudest form... the one with no eye contact, looking bored, and going through the motions, with basic, uninvolved moves... :wink:

I think you can have a proper conversation with a total stranger, in the same way that you can have a brilliant (in a communication way) dance with a complete Beginner, or someone you have never danced with before :nice:
In fact, last night in Aberdeen, I danced with many Beginners and a few women I had never danced with and felt we were communicating / connecting brilliantly :D

Franck.

[Basil Brush (Forum Plant)]

Originally posted by Franck
I wonder if there is a link between how good you are at leading / following and how good a listener you are? Franck.

Mmmm- that's an interesting question Franck. Or what about personality traits, e.g., if someone is shy, arrogant, etc. is this generally reflected in their dancing?

I believe that this is not the case and I think that dancing taps into a different part of one's brain, where personality traits, social behaviours and inhibitions are supressed, allowing the true ID (a la S. Freud) to come to the fore...

[Ash]

I wonder if there is a link between how good you are at leading / following and how good a listener you are?

I think there is a link…dancing can be a microcosm of life. So if you take a really obvious example like Rena the Lindyhopper you can see that her style of dancing is like her personality in life: fun and bouncy. But other examples aren’t so obvious…some people might be shy, controlling, self-centred, laidback…and it’s interesting to see how their persona in real life translates onto the dance floor.

There are many shades of grey and it’s interesting to see how dancing can express your personality, as well as change and enhance it.

[John S]

Originally posted by Gadget
It also can be hard to distinguish between intense focus on a person and flirting with them.
Really???? That's a problem likely to result in a lot of misunderstandings, I think!!!

And anyone who watches two boxers in the centre of the ring, in the final seconds just before a fight will see plenty of intense focus, but not a lot of flirting!!!

[Fran]

Originally posted by Gadget

It also can be hard to distinguish between intense focus on a person and flirting with them.



surley if most people are really honest with themselves (they dont have to admit it to anyone else) they instinctively feel/ know when there is a bit of flirting going on and you can often see it between 2 people as well.

Are men better at spotting another man do this than observing a woman fliting with someone???? I know from chats with women, there does apper to be an agreed feeling that women are extremly astute in watching another women's attempt at flirting.


with regards to the question of dance having the ability to let some traits of peoples personalities to come through on the dance floor, I feel that this is very true. Some dancers who appear very confident on the dance floor are actully quite reserved/ shy off it. they simply have a different persona when they are dancing. Thats not a critisim, it can be a very posiative thing for them.

franxx

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Fran
Some dancers who appear very confident on the dance floor are actully quite reserved/ shy off it. they simply have a different persona when they are dancing. Thats not a critisim, it can be a very posiative thing for them.

franxx That's just like Marc - he's extremely shy and can't do small talk/polite conversation to save his life - but on the dance floor, and ceroc teaching, I think he comes across as supremely confident. In fact, before I knew him too well and realised better, we used to have no end of dancefloor arguments because I thought he was being arrogant. He's really bloomed through the Ceroc teaching, though - before the training course, I think he wasn't 100% sure he had it in him to do it.

Unfortunately, I'm shy too but I think that also comes across on the dancefloor - reserved/conservative and worried about what people think. But then at work, I can happily stand in front of a goup of 20 people and train them. Ahh people - funny beings, aren't we?!!
Rachel

[Fran]

Originally posted by Rachel
Unfortunately, I'm shy too but I think that also comes across on the dancefloor - reserved/conservative and worried about what people think. But then at work, I can happily stand in front of a goup of 20 people and train them.


Ahh people - funny beings, aren't we?!!
Rachel

ditto Rachel!

and quite agree, we are all funny beings - makes us all unique though:wink: My mum always said life would be boring if we were all the same.:nice:

fran:nice:

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by Chicklet
Franck,

what do combs signify/represent in a conversation????

:devil: :wink:

I have an itch in the back of my neck.

[Gadget]

Originally posted by John S
And anyone who watches two boxers in the centre of the ring, in the final seconds just before a fight will see plenty of intense focus, but not a lot of flirting!!!
But they are not smiling at the time now, are they?

As for personality coming through on the dance floor - perhaps; I think it's more the personality we would like to be, rather than who we normally are.

{But perhaps that's just me? :what:}

[Bill]

Originally posted by Rachel
. But then at work, I can happily stand in front of a goup of 20 people and train them. Ahh people - funny beings, aren't we?!!
Rachel

Indeed we are...................... I teach in an FE College so have no problems talking ( or teaching as I call it) :rolleyes: and I can be quite extrovert on the dance floor but I do often find it very difficult to mix in new company and do the small talk stuff. One of the reasons I enjoy dancing so much..... less talking to do :na:

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by Fran
with regards to the question of dance having the ability to let some traits of peoples personalities to come through on the dance floor, I feel that this is very true. Some dancers who appear very confident on the dance floor are actully quite reserved/ shy off it. they simply have a different persona when they are dancing. Thats not a critisim, it can be a very posiative thing for them. franxx

Quite often people come to dance classes to meet new people because of a broken relationship. Often they lack self confidence, and are poised never to return. One of the reasons I try to ask every beginning lady to dance is to dispel the two major fears, "I cannot do this" and "nobody will want to dance with me". Very ocassionally I remember to encourage a guy too. To see the transformation in confidence as they learn a new skill is a reward in itself. It is not just a dance.

[Jon]

Originally posted by Ash
some people might be shy, controlling, self-centred, laidback…and it’s interesting to see how their persona in real life translates onto the dance floor.

Personally I am a shy person but like others in this thread I've found Ceroc change me and bring out a new me. On the dance floor I'm so confident now and my sense of humour really comes out in fact I can be quite cheeky at times but it's always done in a fun way.

I've always been nervous about talking in front of people but I've found being a taxi dancer that it has given me confidence I didn't think I had. I love teaching people and having a laugh with the class.

Having done Ceroc for awhile now I'm finding that my confidence off the dance floor and the ability to control my shyness is definatly improving. Infact I'm interacting more with people now than ever before. Thankyou ceroc.

[Divissima]

The delightful Jon wrote:I've found Ceroc change me and bring out a new me. On the dance floor I'm so confident now and my sense of humour really comes out in fact I can be quite cheeky I found exactly the same thing. I'm not sure I was ever shy in the same way as you say you were, but there was definitely something being held back, without me even realising it.

A (male) friend from Ceroc was sharing his theory on this with me recently. He said that lots of women he knew at Ceroc had otherwise been straighlaced and now suddenly found in themselves a confident, even daring and cheeky side. I guess the same goes for men. Hurrah!:waycool:

[Jon]

I used to be very self consious on the dance floor and always thought that people were watching me and that made me so nervous while dancing.

But one thing I remember a Ceroc teacher saying to me is 'Just let it all go, dont be afraid to do anything while dancing as it's the dancers that dont hold back that people who are watching think wow I wish I could dance like that.' At that time I realised its not about complicated moves it's all about the way you execute the moves as even a simple beginner move can be made to look very stylish and with a partner who you make a connection with any move can look fantastic.

At the time the teacher said that I thought no way could I ever 'let go of my inhabitions' but today I have no problem with doing things that awhile ago I would not of done as I'd of considered them totally embarrising. Today I have no problem dancing on an empty dance floor or infront of over a 1000 people and I have afew ceroc teachers to thank for giving me so much encouragement 'Kelly' and 'Cliff n Penny'.

So moral of the story to all those shy reserved people out there, given time and encouragement you can change to be a very confident dancer, just remember at the end of the day you go dancing to have fun, so why hold back!

[ChrisH]

What an interesting topic. Thanks Jayne for getting it started!

This association between how we espress ourselves on the dancefloor and in other areas of our lives. How interesting.

I believe that everyone can express themselves through movement or body position in one way or another. It is sometimes called non-verbal communication! Some people can do it better than others. Just as some people are more eloquent with words, others with figures and others with colours and shapes.

I think we can all learn to be better at what we do. It is very interesting how we do this. How we perceive what it is that we are doing, how we decide what would be better and how we try to achieve it. So in dancing we come to conclusions both individually and in groups about what is good and bad, average and fantastic.

I suspect that because humans are very tribal and group oriented we like to have our own goup identity. We have 'in' ways of communicating. As we learn we develop languages, music and dance styles to express and identify our own culture.

So is it Intellect or emotion? Perhaps intellect helps with the knowledge, decision making and learning of how to be better at what we are doing. Emotion is one of the things we can be expressing so if you know a better way of expressing a feeling through the dance then this can be very powerful. Other people watching this happening may notice and decide this would be a better way for them too. So we learn and dance styles evolve.

Is it useful to know the history of the dance style? Personnally, I think it can be necessary. In order to fully understand what the music and the dance is about. I found it necessary to find out more about the history of Tango before I could start to understand it. If a dance style is developed in a certain culture, how can we really understand what is important in the style if we do not understand the culture which gave birth to it.

How much of peoples personalities are reflected on the dance floor? I think that of course people reflect their personalities on the dance floor. We can probably do it poorly or pretend in some way but can we avoid it? I think that it is a bit like learning a new language. If I do not know the right words then how can I communicate effectively how I feel. The more words/moves I know and the better I am at using them then the better I can express myself. Being very skillful in expressing myself in either words or movement is going to give me more confidence.

Sorry for carrying on... I got inspired!

Chris

[Starlight Dancer]

Just found this thread by accident and think it links in nicely with the recent discussions on music interpretation.

Dancing is a right brain activity which is where feelings, imagination, creativity, and the ability to work with patterns, space, and imagery are centred. Intellect on the other hand is centred in the left brain.

I cannot be in my intellect while dancing, unless I step out of the flow of the dance to consider some aspect of the dance, such as whether I'm doing the move right, or whether I am leading correctly, or whether there is a move that I could be using etc. At that point the dance has stopped, although it may appear I am still dancing.

When I'm in the flow of the dance, the dance happens spontaneously. I am one with the music and the dance is a communication between me and my partner through the connection of the music. When this is the case, yes there is emotion there, but there is also spirit.

When you are fully in your body while dancing, you are more in touch with your feelings. Doing a hip roll while in a slo comb and making eye contact can not be done genuinely without feeling. In fact such a move will generate feeling between you and your partner, unless you inhibit yourself.

Music too is a right brain activity and will generate rhythm and feeling which the dance will express.

The intellect comes into its own in dance training, which is the preparation for the real dancing.

[Tazmanian Devil]

There is some great opinons on here, as I have been reading down the pages I have found myself agreeing with most of the comments. Dancing is fun, My initial response was going to be emotion because a dance looks and feels better with emotion i.e eye contact, music interpretation. But you also need intelectual info I mean there has got to be a good balance of the two to make a dance perfect :grin:

[Dotse]

Originally posted by Jon
Personally I am a shy person but like others in this thread I've found Ceroc change me and bring out a new me. On the dance floor I'm so confident now and my sense of humour really comes out in fact I can be quite cheeky at times but it's always done in a fun way.

I've always been nervous about talking in front of people but I've found being a taxi dancer that it has given me confidence I didn't think I had. I love teaching people and having a laugh with the class.

Having done Ceroc for awhile now I'm finding that my confidence off the dance floor and the ability to control my shyness is definatly improving. Infact I'm interacting more with people now than ever before. Thankyou ceroc.

Great stuff John, I had similiar experiences...like many people public speaking issn't my favourite thing to do, but consolidation teaching and a period as a mainstream teacher teaching 60-70 people sure throw you in the fire, and you simply "do it" !!!It helped me a lot.........great for personal development

I think we forget about the benefits of dancing that aren't really tangible, often because there longer term.....its great stuff...I want to get back on the floor.....more learning to do in many ways......


Cheers,

Dotse

[Dotse]

As for a slightly different slant on the original intellect or emotion question, research has found that spontaneous freestyle dancing makes people smarter. ...'''I must need to do some more of that :wink:

There is great mental excercise in freestyle, rather than throwing out a fixed order of moves (which I am sure many of us are guilty of at times). Making all those decisions, at some level, if not at a conscious one, excercises our cognitive processes more than routine stuff (according to research).

All dancing requires using the brain but the spontaneous freestyle type uses more brain power in both lead and follow roles.

IMO (is this In my opinion ?? what is IMHO...if this H means honest then why is it used... do people have non-honest opnions.....?? I am soooo curious....... Any way... IMO One of the beautiful aspects of MJ is the lack of authorised 'correct' way of doing things (you could argue that this is a downside but I am not going to here)......having multiple ways of doing things and multiple moves from multiple styles (although mixed in questionable ways) means multiple decsions and many possibilities occur...within individuals and between them.....making for heaps of different brain activity combinations....good variety of mental excercise.....

Other styles, having many 'one correct way' of doing moves means few decisions need to be made......the repetition of routines, for instance, means there is a lot of automatic stuff happening....and as we know personal variations in some styles are frowned upon......so we get lazy brain........but overworked memory...Although people doing showases still need to be commended for the hard work and discipline needed to put one together in the first place ....and yes there is mental excercise and intelliegence that goe into coreography etc.......but this is more about non-showacse routines...think some ballroom dancing........and its prectictable and expected emotional expression as well as the way the moes have to be done and which moves etc.....

With self-authored spontaneous dancing its not just, or at least not as much, memory being used, its more instinctive, less conscious.......you may for instance spontaneously put a combo together to suit a song that you have never done before...new stuff stimulates the brain..it may be a new song ....adapting to the environment (music) is part of intelliegent behaviour........

People have talked about flow or being in the zone..I have been there and its great....and there is no conscious thinking its just doing ..a bit Zen like ...its great to know this seems less taxing on the brain AND its somehow more benefit!! and it feels the best......funnily enough its most emotionally satisfying.....I want to learnr to do this more......as I need to think less (couldn't tell hu:wink: , and I need to improve my brain)

In winding up I leave you fellow enthusiasts... A definition for inteligent dancing I found, which is "A highly active attention to possibilities" if you want the article " Intelligent dancing " let me know and I will chase it up...or simply search the web......

As for teh emotional aspect..I am someone who has troubles faking emotion so I think genuine emotion is spontaneous and e insitnictive just like true freestyle.....or intelligent dancing so maybe we don't have to choose one or the other.......

.....maybe the emotional side of dance or more particularly freestyle dance can be thought of us the automatic response (positive or otherwise) to the attended possibilities that present themselves while intelligently sponatnaously freestyle dancing...mmmmmm...maybe not.............turning brain off now

cheers,

Dotse..........
:cheers: :wink:

P.S just for the record I know how I want to dance as I have had glimses of it, but by no means do I do it regularly........I aim to work on technique as I think this will help get tehre more often.....


Happy intelligent dancing to all of you fellow board dwellers

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Dotse
IMO (is this In my opinion ?? what is IMHO...if this H means honest then why is it used... do people have non-honest opnions.....?? I am soooo curious.......
Humble.
In My Humble Opinion; an admission that your opinion is probably not shared by all: Rather than IMO which is a bit more forcefull and hints that there are other opinions, but yours should be the most popular.

IMO :wink::D

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by starlightdancer
Just found this thread by accident and think it links in nicely with the recent discussions on music interpretation.

~

Music too is a right brain activity and will generate rhythm and feeling which the dance will express.

Deep within my dancing
=================

it is time to have some fun
this is the place to be
deep within my dancing
I find another me

I rule my space
I know what to do
I never miss a break
I'm hitting every cue

One minute I an flowing and I'm graceful
the next I am a jitterbugging queen
I can be sensual and Latin
Or plain dirty and obscene

Up in the air I am flying
and descending with a thrill on the way
almost on the floor I can be lying
but its in your hearts that I mean to stay

it is time to have some fun
this is the place to be
deep within my dancing
I find another me

Deep within my dancing ...

are you liking what you see?