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David Bailey
2nd-November-2006, 09:06 AM
Inspired by the "double pretzel" thread - are some moves inherently too dangerous / likely-to-cause injury? Should they be either banned or only taught at specialist workshops?

Or is it always down to the leader, and no MJ move is inherently dangerous?

straycat
2nd-November-2006, 09:59 AM
Inspired by the "double pretzel" thread - are some moves inherently too dangerous / likely-to-cause injury? Should they be either banned or only taught at specialist workshops?

Or is it always down to the leader, and no MJ move is inherently dangerous?

The five-point-palm exploding heart technique, as taught at the Shaolin Ceroc Temple (Barnsley) is a pretty nasty one...

purple~emma
2nd-November-2006, 10:16 AM
I think ultimately, any Ceroc move could be dangerous. It all come down to leading and following.

Even the simpliest move could cause an injury if lead wrong, or if the follower doesn't read the lead properly.

I've been hit in the face while doing an octopus before, and had my shoulder pulled by someone who was too rough with a yo-yo. At the same time, I've also hit someone in the face. I also have nearly taken the head off a man that I dance with regularly if he's pulled me into a first move while dancing to fast tracks.

Basically, I think that Ceroc in general is an extremely dangerous hobby where even a simple spin could lead to falling flat on your face, especially if a few drinks are involved. :grin:

It's quite amazing that there are so many people who go back and risk their lives many times a week. Lol.

NZ Monkey
2nd-November-2006, 10:40 AM
Some moves definitely have more potential to wrong than others, but it isn’t the moves fault if something goes badly – it’s the ability of the dancers (usually more so for the leader) trying to do it.

I’ve personally been thrown over the shoulders of 6ft tall men onto wooden floors and been fine (If not exactly keen to do it again…:whistle:), broken more pine boards than I care to think about without getting anything more than a few bruises and spent hours practicing waving a large razor blade around without cutting myself in martial arts over the years. All of these things are considerably more dangerous than all but the most extreme moves in MJ.

The important thing is to make sure the moves are taught safely, consistently and with a constant emphasis on keeping your partner safe, right from the beginning. Teaching the ladies tricks to abort some of the more common ‘’dangerous’’ moves if they don’t trust their partner wouldn’t be a bad idea either.

The culture of MJ already frowns upon doing anything that may cause damage, but I guess like everywhere else it’s 2% of the people causing 98% of the trouble. I’d rather that 2% was targeted somehow than eliminate options for everyone else. Anyone have any suggestions how? I know I don’t….

whitetiger1518
2nd-November-2006, 10:41 AM
Basically, I think that Ceroc in general is an extremely dangerous hobby where even a simple spin could lead to falling flat on your face, especially if a few drinks are involved. :grin:

It's quite amazing that there are so many people who go back and risk their lives many times a week. Lol.

CEROC in general is very bad for the health - after all it is Incredibly Addictive - I just hope is doesn't become illegal or have a banned in public spaces law like smoking does.....

Who needs smoking? Dance is far more dangerous to the bank account and to our mental health!
(Sorry - suffering severe withdrawl symptoms ! ;) )

Whitetiger

MartinHarper
2nd-November-2006, 10:45 AM
Or is it always down to the leader, and no MJ move is inherently dangerous?

It's mostly down to the follower.

Double Trouble
2nd-November-2006, 10:51 AM
Inspired by the "double pretzel" thread - are some moves inherently too dangerous / likely-to-cause injury? Should they be either banned or only taught at specialist workshops?

Or is it always down to the leader, and no MJ move is inherently dangerous?

The only injuries I have sustained during dancing, have been a stiletto heel in my foot and a slap in the face. This has nothing to do with dangerous moves, more to do with greedy organisers allowing too many people through the door. I will never go again to 2 particular venues because of over crowding.

I voiced my concerns to an organiser once about how over crowded the venue was, pointing out that my foot was bleeding from being stepped on for the 6th time that night. All I got was a shrug of the shoulders.

I won't mention which venue, although I am very tempted to.

David Franklin
2nd-November-2006, 10:57 AM
Inspired by the "double pretzel" thread - are some moves inherently too dangerous / likely-to-cause injury? Should they be either banned or only taught at specialist workshops?

Or is it always down to the leader, and no MJ move is inherently dangerous?If talking about moves like the double pretzel and backhander, it seems the potential for injury would be massively reduced if the teachers just emphasized "if you're doing this move in freestyle, and it doesn't seem to be going right - just let go". Sadly, I've seen exactly the opposite advice given ("if she's not following, force it 'round" :eek:) by teachers in the past.

Gav
2nd-November-2006, 01:42 PM
and a slap in the face

Hmmm, knowing you and your sister, wonders if that was anything to do with dancing at all? :na:


If talking about moves like the double pretzel and backhander, it seems the potential for injury would be massively reduced if the teachers just emphasized "if you're doing this move in freestyle, and it doesn't seem to be going right - just let go". Sadly, I've seen exactly the opposite advice given ("if she's not following, force it 'round" :eek:) by teachers in the past.

The back to back can be a dodgy one on the shoulders if both lead and follow don't get it right. If I feel any resistance I just let go. If the lady cares, or even notices that wasn't quite what I had intended I might stop and work through it with her, if not I just carry on as if I meant to do it! but no-one gets hurt either way.

Gadget
2nd-November-2006, 02:38 PM
The rules to dancing MJ:
Rule number 1: Don't cause your partner pain.

That's it. Everything else is based around this one thing - all the technique, weight distrubution, leading, following... it all revolves about that.*

If it causes pain, don't do it. Or learn how to do it without causing pain. If it may cause pain, do it carefully and stop if it hurts. {this upstairs yet?:whistle:}

*OK, you have styling, but you don't need that do dance MJ; it's not a 'rule'.

Paulthetrainer
2nd-November-2006, 05:15 PM
Accidents will happen and more often to some than others, but I'd say that a bigger danger is longer term damage caused by hyper-extension of lower back from poorly executed seducers. Just my opinion of course.

David Bailey
2nd-November-2006, 05:31 PM
If you look at a site such as the excellent Jiveoholic (http://www.jiveoholic.org.uk/default.asp), you'll see that moves are rated on Intimacy, Complexity and Safety.

It might be nice if MJ teachers actually used a similar classification whilst teaching - i.e. "this can be dangerous, take care".

Lee Bartholomew
13th-November-2006, 10:17 PM
I have done move considered 'dangerous' with several dance partners. When people see you doing arials they worry when you dance with them that you are going to be throwing them over your shoulders. You would not belive how many 'bigger' ladies have said ' your not going to do that to me though are you?' after watching a arial.

I dance almost every day of the week and have noticed that 99.999% of injuries that occur are during 'normal' moves. Wether this is due to 99.999% of moves done in freestyle being normal or wether it is because the more 'dangerous' moves are done by people who can safely do them, is unknown.

I reguarly do a move with certain dancers call 'The Swan'. For those that dont know it, your partner stands with their back to the man, jumps in the air and wraps her legs backwards around your waist. She will then plumet face first to the ground, with the man stopping her before she hits.

I once done this move with a girl at High Rocks (Tunbridge Wells) only to find a fairly elderly man, try it with another girl five mins later. Needless to say he didn't know the technique and unfortunately, the girl came away from it in a pritty big mess. Never saw her dance again.

The most shocking thing about this is two weeks later, the same man was at Bromley trying to get another girl to do it aswell.

If I had caused the injuries to that girl in that way, I would never do the move again, let alone try it after two weeks.

One thing I have found with ceroc over leroc is the men tend to do drops and lifts with girls, without asking them.

Is this down to the teaching? Are we not told enough not to do specialist moves without asking the woman or enough practice or being taught them properly.

I am pretty guilty of doing some dangerous moves with one of my regular dance partners but they are nothing I would not try without thinking them through and being 100% confident that a bad injury is not going to happen.

P.S. The worst injury I have ever had is a broken rear tooth after I got elbowed in the chops by a woman spinning (badly). Nearly knocked me out.

p.p.s Sorry for bad spelling / grammer. Mind is dead after 6:30am finish at camber this morning.

Trouble
13th-November-2006, 10:31 PM
Hmmm, knowing you and your sister, wonders if that was anything to do with dancing at all? :na:

.


cheeky bugger. Im sweet so i have absolutely no idea what your talking about. I myself have never been injured whilst dancing but i do find im a little bad at keeping my elbows tucked in tight enough and have landed a couple of guys on the chin :what: not been smacked back yet :D

When are we dancing again Gav...:whistle:

Lee Bartholomew
13th-November-2006, 10:34 PM
I got clouted a few times around the face last night. Infact almost everyone hit me somehow.

One woman (very impresively) managed a complete spin whilst standing on my foot !!!!!

Trouble
13th-November-2006, 10:39 PM
I got clouted a few times around the face last night. Infact almost everyone hit me somehow.

One woman (very impresively) managed a complete spin whilst standing on my foot !!!!!



:rofl: would like to have seen that. :rofl:

Lee Bartholomew
13th-November-2006, 10:46 PM
I don;t think she even noticed she done it. Didn't even notice me swearing and limping.

Someone was injured in the blues room last night abou 4-5am ish? anyone know if he was ok? Twisted ankle i think.

straycat
13th-November-2006, 11:49 PM
In my 'New Posts' list just now, this thread came just above the 'Death Penalty' poll. Now my addled (ain't painkillers great?) brain has completely mixed the two threads up, and I can't help feeling that his fact is actually quite appropriate.

Maybe I should go to bed now.

Lee Bartholomew
14th-November-2006, 12:25 AM
lol :-)

Gav
14th-November-2006, 12:52 AM
cheeky bugger. Im sweet so i have absolutely no idea what your talking about. I myself have never been injured whilst dancing but i do find im a little bad at keeping my elbows tucked in tight enough and have landed a couple of guys on the chin :what: not been smacked back yet :D

When are we dancing again Gav...:whistle:

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Nearly took someones head off with a cleaver tonight! Then I went dancing, :D boom, boom!:sick: