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View Full Version : Simon Borland's Party at the Hippodrome, 20/10/06



El Salsero Gringo
19th-October-2006, 02:21 PM
For anyone not "in the know" (is that anyone at all?) Simon's throwing a "party" at the Hippodrome tomorrow night. So far so good - except that today I'm asked "If you want to support us in creating an ongoing Jive Super Club then lets make the place hum. If this is a conflict for you personally, we understand - Please contact us if you do not wish to come"

Why on earth should there be a conflict? Private party, right? Or is this the start of a new business empire?

How much is it to get in, btw?

stewart38
19th-October-2006, 02:29 PM
For anyone not "in the know" (is that anyone at all?) Simon's throwing a "party" at the Hippodrome tomorrow night. So far so good - except that today I'm asked "If you want to support us in creating an ongoing Jive Super Club then lets make the place hum. If this is a conflict for you personally, we understand - Please contact us if you do not wish to come"

Why on earth should there be a conflict? Private party, right? Or is this the start of a new business empire?

How much is it to get in, btw?

Heard about it but wasnt on the invite list :tears:

Simon is one of the best teachers I know at Fulham and at Ish is it Ssshhh

No he is the best :grin:

ps £45 on the door

Minnie M
19th-October-2006, 02:31 PM
Heard about it but wasnt on the invite list :tears:
He asked me to put it on my list - so you could email him for an invite, shame you don't read my list :whistle: (I don't think he has over 700 personal friends)

El Salsero Gringo
19th-October-2006, 02:31 PM
And why was Minnie's first reply to this thread deleted...?

I love a good conspiracy.

Lory
19th-October-2006, 02:32 PM
And why was Minnie's first reply to this thread deleted...?

I love a good conspiracy.

Minnie deleted it herself, so I deleted my reponse to it too, as it no longer made sence ;)

Minnie M
19th-October-2006, 02:33 PM
And why was Minnie's first reply to this thread deleted...?

I love a good conspiracy.

I deleted it as I thought your post was from the same email :blush:

Can post the whole email if you wish

David Bailey
19th-October-2006, 02:34 PM
And why was Minnie's first reply to this thread deleted...?

I love a good conspiracy.

You are such a stirrer... :rofl:

Of couirse, I know everything, but I'd have to kill you after telling you.

El Salsero Gringo
19th-October-2006, 02:35 PM
Can post the whole email if you wishI'm not fussed either way... but I would seriously like to know what the entry charge is.

Lory
19th-October-2006, 02:35 PM
Of couirse, I know everything, but I'd have to kill you after telling you.

I know nothing but I find it's for the best sometimes :)

Minnie M
19th-October-2006, 02:38 PM
I'm not fussed either way... but I would seriously like to know what the entry charge is.

AFAIK There is no entry charge as it is strictly invitation only :-

here is is again - wont delete it this time


Stop Press! Hippodrome is FULL!!!!

Dear Friends

Thank you so much for you’re overwhelming responses to the Jive party of the year at the Hippodrome on Friday 20th October 2006. We are stunned to announce that the guest list is completely and utterly full! WOW! 2 weeks ago I sent a home made happy snap invite, emailed to 25 people - I have just finished compiling the guest list and cant believe the travels some of you are making - we have guests actually flying in from Midlands, Scotland, France, Germany, Sweden, Miami, Sydney, Melbourne, Spain, and somehow the Icelandic womens volleyball team! True!

On Friday night, Susie Kable and I look forward to dancing with you all. For those of you who don’t know Susie yet, she is one of the talented Advanced Aussie teachers, now gallavanting around London, and was one of my teachers early on when I was dragged along to my first ever-Modern Jive class last century.

STRICTLY guest listed - please don’t bring any additional non-guest-listed friends on the night. We can’t get them in. If you have not had a confirmation reply from me or you are unsure if someone is on the list, please email to check.

TiggsTours
19th-October-2006, 02:38 PM
I'm not fussed either way... but I would seriously like to know what the entry charge is.

I've been told its free, so long as you're on the guest list, but I'd really like to know too, I don't want to turn up and find out I haven't got enough money on me!

So, who is going, anyone work in the centre of town? Anyone planning on meeting up somewhere first?

TiggsTours
19th-October-2006, 02:40 PM
AFAIK There is no entry charge as it is strictly invitation only :-

here is is again - wont delete it this time

Please email who to check? I was invited, I've put names on the list for me and a friend, but I've not had confirmation that I'm on the list! How can I find out?

El Salsero Gringo
19th-October-2006, 02:41 PM
I've been told its free, so long as you're on the guest list, but I'd really like to know too, I don't want to turn up and find out I haven't got enough money on me!Well check with Simon first, because I gather it's free only for some.


Will and Kate, and Amir and Cat are performing, by the way, and I gather Kenobe is DJ - but he's only permitted to play from a pre-approved play-list :rofl:

TiggsTours
19th-October-2006, 02:43 PM
Well check with Simon first, because I gather it's free only for some.
And how do I do that?

El Salsero Gringo
19th-October-2006, 02:46 PM
And how do I do that?the email continues... "and if you want further updates, just email me simon@simonborland.com"

Dizzy
19th-October-2006, 02:46 PM
It's free to get in but you have to be on the guest list.

I will be on the door :D so you are gonna have to sweet talk me. :whistle:

Tiggs, I will be going to Leicester square straight from work so you can meet us if you wish :flower:

fletch
19th-October-2006, 02:48 PM
Hi babes,

I'm going with the Witty 1 i'm stopping at hers, I will be in London quite early as i'm taking the children to my mom's at lunch time, I would think WB will be up for drinks beforehand :rolleyes: although I might look a bit of a chump in a long frock :eek: like I care :waycool:

TiggsTours
19th-October-2006, 02:49 PM
the email continues... "and if you want further updates, just email me simon@simonborland.com"

Thanks, what email?

El Salsero Gringo
19th-October-2006, 02:51 PM
Thanks, what email?the one you haven't been sent...

TiggsTours
19th-October-2006, 02:54 PM
Well, I can be up in town for anytime after about 6pm, how about anyone who's heading up early plans to meet up in Ruby Blue:

http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/clubs_bars/venue-2748.php

What sort of time will others be getting there?

TiggsTours
19th-October-2006, 02:55 PM
the one you haven't been sent...

Aaah, that one! :what:

Lory
19th-October-2006, 02:57 PM
http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/clubs_bars/venue-2748.php


OMG, ZW will hyperventilate if she see's that pic! :devil:

El Salsero Gringo
19th-October-2006, 02:57 PM
(I don't think he has over 700 personal friends)This is Simon Borland we're talking about, right? It's entirely plausible.

fletch
19th-October-2006, 02:59 PM
anytime after about 6pm, how about anyone who's heading up early plans to meet up in Ruby Blue:



What sort of time will others be getting there?

Just spoke to WB we are up for going out early :wink: :rolleyes:

If thats OK with out other car passengers ? :confused:

Ruby Blue what kind of place is it ? :flower:

Feelingpink
19th-October-2006, 03:03 PM
OMG, ZW will hyperventilate if she see's that pic! :devil:More to the point, she's not:wink: allowed in ... otherwise no-one will be able to find her.

fletch
19th-October-2006, 03:20 PM
OMG, ZW will hyperventilate if she see's that pic! :devil:

WOW ! I like to look of this, I think you might lose both of us i'm starting in black and white :clap:

Zebra Woman
19th-October-2006, 03:32 PM
WOW ! I like to look of this, I think you might lose both of us i'm starting in black and white :clap:

Oh..Oooh yes I am hyperventilating Lory! :yum:

Fletch - we have to go there!

Not sure what time we will be down in London that night though. Photos please if I don't make it.

ZW

fletch
19th-October-2006, 03:34 PM
Fletch - we have to go there!

Not sure what time we will be down in London that night though. Photos please if I don't make it.

ZW

Alison you MUST make it, this will make Fab photo's but you need to be in them :clap:


Bring you little 'dickie' :wink:


:D


.

El Salsero Gringo
19th-October-2006, 04:05 PM
I have spoken to the horse - Mr. Borland himself - and it is free to everyone. (Just to be clear, you still have to be on the list, but nobody has to pay.)

Daydreaming Diva
19th-October-2006, 04:25 PM
[QUOTE=Dizzy;294592]It's free to get in but you have to be on the guest list.

I will be on the door :D so you are gonna have to sweet talk me. :whistle:

So do you know who is on the guest list yet? :respect: :respect: :rofl:

I replied to the invitation pretty much straight away, for me and a guest, but have not had confirmation. It would be very embarassing to have brought a guest along only to be told that we aren't on the list. I have emailed the address given on the latest PM, but surely CeeCee hasn't got time to email everyone back.!! :confused:

WittyBird
19th-October-2006, 04:49 PM
Right people so what time are we meeting then, so I can arrange pick ups etc?

fletch
19th-October-2006, 05:25 PM
Right people so what time are we meeting then, so I can arrange pick ups etc?



don't forget 6.30 congestion charge :eek:

WittyBird
19th-October-2006, 05:26 PM
don't forget 6.30 congestion charge :eek:

sssssshhhhhhhhhh will call you :wink:

TurboTomato
19th-October-2006, 05:36 PM
I'm going as well! :D And SeriouslyAddicted!

What does dress to impress mean?? :confused: No jeans?

WittyBird
19th-October-2006, 05:39 PM
What does dress to impress mean?? :confused: No jeans?

Where *** you want :wink: I will be in combats!!!

Anyway Lory, Fletch and Myself will be at Ruby Blue from 7pm (ish) depending on traffic.

See y'all there :clap:

Paul F
19th-October-2006, 06:52 PM
You guys are driving ????? :what:

Isnt that nuts in a Friday night into central London?

I should be going but im just concerned how long its going to take to get into the middle of London :sick:

WittyBird
19th-October-2006, 06:54 PM
You guys are driving ????? :what:

Isnt that nuts in a Friday night into central London?


No it will be fine, done it before. Picking Lory up around 6pm :clap:

Toby wan Kenobe
19th-October-2006, 08:12 PM
.. and I gather Kenobe is DJ - but he's only permitted to play from a pre-approved play-list :rofl:

You gather wrong...
The music will be a fabulous Kenobe mix in keeping with the amazing night club venue, London West End's biggest night club. DJ Bunny will also be doing a set.

See you on Friday.
TwK

fletch
19th-October-2006, 08:17 PM
You gather wrong...
The music will be a fabulous Kenobe mix in keeping with the amazing night club venue, London West End's biggest night club. DJ Bunny will also be doing a set.

See you on Friday.
TwK

:na: ESG


:D

Save me one of those :drool: dances Toby :flower:



.

Daydreaming Diva
19th-October-2006, 09:34 PM
Any idea where to park - I want to drive up.

Georgious dancer
19th-October-2006, 09:46 PM
Sounds like a good eve. However there is no dancing for me this weekend:tears: My cousins flies over from Australia arriving 2moz morning, I haven't seen him in 7 years and am sooooo excited! Have a dance for me everyone!:flower:

El Salsero Gringo
20th-October-2006, 12:13 AM
You gather wrong...
The music will be a fabulous Kenobe mix in keeping with the amazing night club venueSo will you or won't you be playing any Rolf Harris?

SeriouslyAddicted
20th-October-2006, 01:01 PM
Only 7 hours to go :D Looking forward to seeing you all there!!

fletch
21st-October-2006, 10:12 AM
I had a realy good night :clap:

The floor was very crowded, to crowded even for me at the begging of the night:sad:

It was MJ in a night club, so what do you expect, house music and a very sticky floor..........thats what we got, but despite that I loved it, not so sure about some of the other guys but they will post themselves.

It was high energy all the way, with a bit of latin, FAB:clap:

The nibbles were wonderful :drool:

The lighting and smoke put a new dimention on Amir and Cat's showcase, it was very dramatic :respect:


I had a lovely time and it was well worth the drive :flower:

Simon you deserve a:worthy:


PS, I danced with the 'Refuser' he askes me :na:

Cruella
21st-October-2006, 12:19 PM
PS, I danced with the 'Refuser' he askes me :na:

Yes, as an excuse not to dance with me! :rofl:

Lory
21st-October-2006, 12:22 PM
I had a realy good night :clap:


I'm afraid it wasn't my cup of tea at all but then again, i'm OLD :sad:

I feel I have the right, to write publicly about this 'private' event, as it actually turned out to be the launch of a new business venture.

Firstly the good things of the night,

It was FREE :grin:

At the start of the night, the atmosphere was electric, as people were buzzing with anticipation :grin:

Simon and crew stood welcoming everyone at the door and it definitely felt as if we were at some kind of premiere event.:waycool:

No queuing, a swift name and bag check and we were in! (well almost, see below)

The canapé's were a nice touch!:)

Cat and Amir's showcase blew me away, I especially liked the entrance. ... they arrived on stage, in a cloud of smoke, via a sunken floor being raised, it was very dramatic and well and truly worthy of a West end show!:worthy:

It was definitely like the 'who's who' of the dance world, ALL the 'names' were there. :waycool:

Getting drinks at the bar was quick and efficient and the 'West End prices' came as no surprise ;)

Now for my personal dislikes.

Having to put your coat in the cloakroom, (which I was under the impression was expected of us) took ages and even longer to get it out, we queued for over 20minutes just to get our coats back.:sad:

The floor - firstly it was way too small to cope with the amount of dancers there but more than that, it was just YUKK! :sick: It wasn't really made up of anything that resembled a 'proper' dance floor. I got chewing gum stuck to the bottom of one of my shoes :angry:

The lighting - I couldn't actually SEE anyone, it was like peering into the abyss. It was only when i was practically on top of someone, that I recognised them. :really: And I found the flashing lights to be quite disorientating, added to that was the smoke, nice for atmosphere but I didn't like dancing in it (does it give anyone else a sore throat)?

The music - for ME, it was just toooooo clubby and LOUD! :blush: Don't get me wrong, I love the odd club track and I can get funky with the best of them:wink: but this was relentless. :rolleyes: And, if you couldn't dance (cos its too crowded) it would've be nice to be able to chat instead, which was also nearly impossible. All my favourite dancers were there but I didn't feel inclined to ask any of them, because the music didn't inspire me, plus, I know I'd have been dissapointed in my performance, due to the floor!

Now saying that, I CAN see the business logic to this - I definitely think this new night, might bridge the gap between the 'Club Scene' and the usual MJ format/venue. I think my daughter and her mates would love it and if it got them hooked, they might then graduate to accepting partner dancing as being really cool. Which can only be a good thing!:yeah:

I wish Simon every success but I can't realistically see people who're passionate about dancing, making it a regular night on their calendar.:confused:

At the end of the day, I AM glad I went, just so I could experience it for myself as i'd forever be wondering what I'd missed out on otherwise ;)


p.s. Where was the glitter ball :confused: Believe me, I did look for it!:D





Lorraine x

DavidY
21st-October-2006, 12:30 PM
Why on earth should there be a conflict? Private party, right? Or is this the start of a new business empire?
I feel I have the right, to write publicly about this 'private' event, as it actually turned out to be the launch of a new business venture.Good prediction there, ESG...

Minnie M
21st-October-2006, 12:49 PM
I'm afraid it wasn't my cup of tea at all but then again, i'm OLD :sad: ......../I agree with all said/..................I wish Simon every success but I can't realistically see people who're passionate about dancing, making it a regular night on their calendar.:confused:

At the end of the day, I AM glad I went, just so I could experience it for myself as i'd forever be wondering what I'd missed out on otherwise...

:yeah: totall agree - with all your post Lory :yeah:

I too loved the first hour - it really buzzed and then the disco music and lights started to get on my nerves (would have been OK if I had a drink :blush: and hand bag dancing)

Fantastic place and the sound system was amazing the DJs did a great job:respect:

Weekly Classes ? : With Seamus & Simon teaching it will certainly be worth the Monday trip - if you decide to drive, there were loads of spaces in the Leicester Square car park - but take a car full and share the cost - splitting £17 for 4 hours isn't that bad.

Good luck with your new venture Simon :flower: I wish you and your team all the very best :hug:

I am so pleased I went (thank you Simon & Tony for arranging it - and Mr. UP & Rob for driving)

TurboTomato
21st-October-2006, 01:16 PM
Hi all,

Firstly a big thanks to fletch for introducing me to some of you and witty for introducing me to absolutely everybody else :respect: Hopefully if I don't remember your names, I'll at least remember your faces for next time! Got a chance to dance with some forumites as well, really enjoyed it :D

As for the event itself Lory summed it up pretty well I'd say. Floor was a bit rubbish to dance on, way too small (having never been there before I thought the dance floor was a lot bigger) and the strobe lights were really annoying. But a lot of it was good, and as said before it was free so a big :clap: for Simon

Paul

PS Fletch I am soooo sorry for feeling your bits :blush: :blush: :blush: It was witty, she made me do it!! :na:

Spin dryer
21st-October-2006, 03:14 PM
I concur with everything that Lory said.

It's a sensible idea to have a free promotional evening to get a new night up and running. It was, however, unnecessarily disingenuous to suggest that the primary motivation for the event was Simon's 250th dance lesson when in reality it was a freebie to get people to see the venue and build up a mailing list. There was a faint air of bewilderment in the room when Simon announced that there would be a regular Monday night at the Hippodrome.

Dancing is all about communication and connection and it is impossible to have much of that when 90% of one's energies are devoted to avoiding colliding with other dancers on a dance floor that is far too small for the number of dancers. At a guess, the floor can accommodate comfortably only around 100 dancers, and "Jive Nation" will not make a profit with that number.

I know we all have different tastes in music, but for me and everyone I spoke to it was dire. It was also far too loud.

The strobe lights were on much of the time and were intensely irritating.

On a positive note, I thought that the event was otherwise very well organised and slickly presented. A triumph in fact of presentation over substance.

I wish Simon well in his new venture, but I can't see it working in its current guise.

El Salsero Gringo
21st-October-2006, 03:51 PM
Good prediction there, ESG...Speaking personally, I think an approach more along the lines of "I'm opening a new class at the Hippodrome ... please come and enjoy a free launch-night party" would have generated more goodwill than all this faux "we only just decided" stuff, which I guess leaves people feeling a little, um, manipulated?

I'm curious as to whether Amir, Cat, Kenobe, Will and Kate were in the know, seeing as they're very involved with Monday Lush - that's also on a Monday. Perhaps they don't think there's likely to be any cross-over between the two.

Paul F
21st-October-2006, 04:36 PM
I wasn't going to post a reaction to this night as I viewed it as an independants' special night.
As this was obviously a launch pad for a new business, however, I feel justified in commenting.

Of course this is all just my opinion so should be taken with a monumental pinch of salt. Coupling that with the fact that we left about 11pm so we were not there for the last hour or two.

Conclusion
This was an absolutely atrocious night. Very possibly the worst dance event I have EVER been to.

I will start with my main 2 things I look for in a venue - Music. What the hell was that last night ??????? :tears: The music was absolutely dire. I dont mind a few club tracks as it breaks up a night. Too much of 1 genre is too much but last night. OH MY GOD!!!!! I was really hoping for something a little varied as we had the mighty TWK on the decks. I have to say I was totally bewildered.

Second thing I look for is a good floor. Running the risk of repeating myself .....What the hell was that last night ??????? :tears: I have danced on some proper dodgy floors before in my time but that last night was pure and simply the worst floor I have danced on. Walking down the stairs to the dancefloor I could feel my feet literally (and I mean literally) sticking to the floor. You then walk onto a dancefloor, and i use that term loosely, that is just not fit for dancing. Sticky and uneven. Awful.

What next.....so many choices....erm, drinks prices. I expected expensive. I wasnt dissapointed. £3.50 for a 330ml bottle of fosters. YAY!!

Lighting. Bloody hell! How many times has it been mentioned on this forum that people dislike excessive flashing lights in their face? Lots! At one point last night I thought I was going blind with all the strobe lights and other nightclub effects going on. How on earth are people supposed to dance safely in that?

Numbers. Way too busy on the dancefloor.

Dancers. I was so gutted due to the fact that there so many nice people and great dancers there and I just didnt want to ask them to dance. I had 4 dances in 2 hours and came to the conclusion that I just couldnt safely dance with someone in that venue.

Volume. As has been mentioned it was typically nightclub loud. MJ is a SOCIAL dance style. Ok, I couldnt dance. If I had been able to meaningfully chat with people I would have stayed but as it was the volume was just crazy.

Parking. Im guessing there are free, or cheap, parking spots on a Monday night or maybe the catchment area is just londoners via the tube? Last night was £15 for us.

BUT....
It was free.
That doesnt change my opinion on the venue itself but it maybe means I should keep my mouth shut. Too late though I guess :) It also means that offset the parking costs.

Also, there were nibbles provided. I didnt have any but at least they were provided. Thats good.

I believe there was free water too. Thats a very good point.


---

Before I went last night I had a theory :) total speculation but my theory was that Ceroc were scouting out a new champs venue. It seems I was totally wrong. This is going to be a class venue (but obviously not ceroc) :confused:
Interesting!
Is this what the Ozzy venues are like?

It was pointed out to me last night that this is a venue in a purely tourist area. In that respect, depending how it is marketed, it may well attract visitors. Or is it targetted purely at attracting young people?
Very interesting idea.


I will be surprised if this venue does succeed. Although its going to be on a Monday it cant be cheap to hire that place. If its being hired at a discount you can only imagine that the owners assume they will make their money elsewhere. But where? MJ'ers are not big drinkers. Where will the money come from ??

As I said. Dissapointing night, dissapointing venue.

Lynn
21st-October-2006, 04:53 PM
I'm curious as to whether Amir, Cat, Kenobe, Will and Kate were in the know, seeing as they're very involved with Monday Lush - that's also on a Monday. Perhaps they don't think there's likely to be any cross-over between the two.I would think they would be appealing to different types of dancers and are offering very different products by the sound of it.

Spin dryer
21st-October-2006, 05:04 PM
This was an absolutely atrocious night. Very possibly the worst dance event I have EVER been to.

Isn't it quite amazing how people so deeply immersed in the dance scene can be so blind to the ingredients that make a good dance event?

Feelingpink
21st-October-2006, 05:06 PM
My theory is that last night had two main groups of people - those who enjoyed the tracks being played and those who didn't - quite possibly most of the forumites I know were there are in the latter group. Being a TWK fan - and having very much liked DJ Bunny's (I think) sets at BritRock last weekend - I was looking forward to their music. But I hated every single track I heard until I left about11pm. I didn't dance once, despite looking forward to doing so. It may well be that DJ Bunny and TWK were catering for the dancers they saw on the floor. Well, in doing so, they pi**ed off the rest of us. I can't imagine many of us would be back, just based on the music played - even without going into other factors, such as the floor, which I couldn't comment on.

I disagree, however, with the thoughts that the Monday night will fail. I wouldn't know the first thing about how the numbers add up, but based on the £10 entry fee (on the card given to me promoting the night) and the numbers of people dancing (yes, a lot of them bouncing away for all they were worth), it could well be a goer. I'm simply not part of its target market.

Cat & Amir's and Kate & Will's cabarets were just fabulous, though.

When the announcement was made about the new dance night, somewhat pre-empted by Simon's email, I didn't feel great about it. My suspicion is that Simon started out with the highest of intentions in having a fun dance night and, having found receptive venue managers, it has snowballed. I wish him luck, but also would have preferred the regular dance night announcement to have been made beforehand.

Paul F
21st-October-2006, 05:12 PM
Isn't it quite amazing how people so deeply immersed in the dance scene can be so blind to the ingredients that make a good dance event?

I hope you're not referring to me :blush:

The trouble is, as FP says, I am not part of its target market so what I say means precisely nothing.

What worries me most is that this venue MAY attract people through the door and those same people will associate MJ with what they receive in that venue. :(

Feelingpink
21st-October-2006, 05:15 PM
Isn't it quite amazing how people so deeply immersed in the dance scene can be so blind to the ingredients that make a good dance event?I'm not sure I understand your comment about PaulF's thoughts. Which ingredients do YOU believe make a good dance night?

Spin dryer
21st-October-2006, 05:22 PM
I'm not sure I understand your comment about PaulF's thoughts. Which ingredients do YOU believe make a good dance night?

Apologies if my last post (post 54) was ambiguous. I agree with what Paul F says. My comments were directed at the organisers of last night's event (see my comments at post 50). In short, a decent dance floor and decent music are essential. We don't need "the biggest disco ball in Europe" (which failed to appear in any event) and we certainly don't need a "300,000 watt sound system" to make us prematurely deaf.

Feelingpink
21st-October-2006, 05:24 PM
Apologies if my last post (post 54) was ambiguous. I agree with what Paul F says. My comments were directed at the organisers of last night's event (see my comments at post 50). In short, a decent dance floor and decent music are essential.Thanks - now I understand. :cheers:

Miguel
22nd-October-2006, 12:28 PM
Why on earth should there be a conflict? Private party, right? Or is this the start of a new business empire?

It's a new business empire.

David Bailey
22nd-October-2006, 12:32 PM
Speaking personally, I think an approach more along the lines of "I'm opening a new class at the Hippodrome ... please come and enjoy a free launch-night party" would have generated more goodwill than all this faux "we only just decided" stuff, which I guess leaves people feeling a little, um, manipulated?
What, you mean they hadn't only just decided? :eek:

What gave it away - the preprinted business cards? :rofl:

Anyway, would people like to move the discussion here (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=295611#post295611)? I think it's an interesting idea, and certainly looks like a potential gap in the marker...

El Salsero Gringo
22nd-October-2006, 12:37 PM
It's a new business empire.

Hey, and my picture is on the website too. (I should add they're not my photos though...)

David Bailey
22nd-October-2006, 12:55 PM
Hey, and my picture is on the website too. (I should add they're not my photos though...)

Hmmm, yes - that is a bit naughty. :(

CeeCee
22nd-October-2006, 03:16 PM
Amir and Catriona's Cabaret

I was transfixed.

The stage rose up from the ground above the crowd and made us all pay attention. What a start.

Two bodies moved together as one in a dreamlike sequence of long elegant lines, arms outstretched, legs extended and feet poised.

Silhouettes swept across the stage side by side and intertwined behind the swirling smoke screen, emphasising the exquisite gracefulness of their dance.

They moved delightfully to Nuevo Tango music making their performance more exciting and energetic. The glorious musical interpretation highlighted Cat's volcada with her splendid slow motion forward tilt and leg drop. It was pure magic.

This was a cabaret which I will remember for a long, long, long time.



Amir and Catriona, watching you was an inspiration, I thank you.




.

Feelingpink
22nd-October-2006, 03:19 PM
Amir and Catriona's Cabaret

[COLOR="Navy"]I was transfixed.

The stage rose up from the ground above the crowd and made us all pay attention. What a start.

Two bodies moved together as one in a dreamlike sequence of long elegant lines, arms outstretched, legs extended and feet poised.

Silhouettes swept across the stage side by side and intertwined behind the swirling smoke screen, emphasising the exquisite gracefulness of their dance.

...:yeah: I'm just editing photographs of their cabaret - it reminds me all over again. :drool: :drool:

El Salsero Gringo
22nd-October-2006, 03:23 PM
Hey, and my picture is on the website too. (I should add they're not my photos though...)


Hmmm, yes - that is a bit naughty. :(Why is it naughty?


Last edited by Lory : 22nd-October-2006 at 12:45 PM. Reason: removed linkWhat's wrong with links now? And it was only in my post because I was quoting someone else, before someone jumps to the wrong conclusions.

David Bailey
22nd-October-2006, 03:31 PM
Why is it naughty?
It's naughty if he hasn't asked permission...


What's wrong with links now? And it was only in my post because I was quoting someone else, before someone jumps to the wrong conclusions.[/I]
Advertising I presume?

Although I confess I too was tempted to post a link, just to get the prestigious "Edited by Lory" mark :devil:

El Salsero Gringo
22nd-October-2006, 03:36 PM
It's naughty if he hasn't asked permission...
There's no requirement of the photographer to ask the subject's permission, except if the photograph is used to suggest an endorsement by the subject (and hence allow a possible claim for defamation) - as I understand it. I don't think a picture that simply shows I turned up for free food and a dance indicates I'm endorsing anything!

(Besides which, it would be the most monumental case of the pot calling the kettle black if I were to object, wouldn't you agree?)

Andreas
22nd-October-2006, 04:59 PM
Speaking personally, I think an approach more along the lines of "I'm opening a new class at the Hippodrome ... please come and enjoy a free launch-night party" would have generated more goodwill than all this faux "we only just decided" stuff, which I guess leaves people feeling a little, um, manipulated?

Can't say that I feel manipulated because it turned out what I thought it would. I was reluctant to go since there was just nothing I could find justifying the massive expenses of such a venue for an anniversary party. There had to be a hidden agenda and quite frankly, his Jive Nation had even been mentioned in this thread prior to the night.

Do I blame Simon for it? Not really. I don't approve of his approach but at the end of the day, he forked out for a huge party to advertise his new and upcoming classes, can't have much better advertisement, really.

Even with GBP 10 per class I can't, however, see him get rich anytime soon. This means he really is in for the longer term.

What I noticed most was that he had gained weight big time! I saw him last 5 years ago and he was relatively skinny then. :D


As for the night itself, I haven't read through all Paul F wrote but I think I am mostly in tune with it. I had a massive 7 or 8 dances all night, which has to be a record but neither did I feel like exposing myself (or my respective lady) to the numerous bumps and step-ons, nor could I find anything in the music that made me want to head for the dance floor. Mind you, I was still suffering from jetlag, which certainly didn't help either. Most fun dance of the night had to be the Salsa to the Samba with LilyB. :drool: :rofl: Sorry for throwing you around so much. :flower: :hug: :kiss:

fletch
23rd-October-2006, 10:54 AM
photo's

fletch
23rd-October-2006, 10:56 AM
Witty and Victor

Witty and Cat

ducasi
23rd-October-2006, 01:29 PM
What's wrong with links now?
I agree, though if anyone wants to check out the web site, it's not difficult to figure out what a UK company called Jive Nation would call its web site, now is it?

Having no idea what the night was like, I'd like to predict that with a little fine-tuning, and fixing of some of the issues raised in this and the other thread, it will do well. :)

El Salsero Gringo
23rd-October-2006, 01:41 PM
I agree, though if anyone wants to check out the web site, it's not difficult to figure out what a UK company called Jive Nation would call its web site, now is it?
Oh, you mean www.jivenation.co.uk (http://www.jivenation.co.uk?) ?? Let's have a stir.

Gus
23rd-October-2006, 02:09 PM
Oh, you mean www.jivenation.co.uk (http://www.jivenation.co.uk?) ?? Let's have a stir.I hope his teaching skills are better than his website design. If I was a new punter I don't think I would be attracted. Makes me wonder exactly what his target market is? Oh ... and the video? :blush:

David Bailey
23rd-October-2006, 02:29 PM
Oh, you mean [XXX] ?? Let's have a stir.
20 minutes now - I dunno, lazy moderators... :na:

David Bailey
23rd-October-2006, 02:30 PM
Oh ... and the video? :blush:
Yes, it's very Youtube, isn't it? Errr, maybe it's supposed to be ironic? :whistle:

ducasi
23rd-October-2006, 03:23 PM
I hope his teaching skills are better than his website design. If I was a new punter I don't think I would be attracted. Makes me wonder exactly what his target market is? Oh ... and the video? :blush:
The basic web site design is all-right, I thought. I haven't seen the video, but some of the photos are rather poor. :(

Gus
23rd-October-2006, 03:54 PM
The basic web site design is all-right, I thought. I haven't seen the video, but some of the photos are rather poor. :(Urrmm ... black background is soooo 1990s .... the content is lacking from a marketing perpective, there is little to draw you in, no five second 'hit', nothing to draw you in and little to tell you why you should want to visit the site again. (Can't you tell which sad bunny has been having to deal with web-designers over his new website :wink: )

ducasi
23rd-October-2006, 04:52 PM
Urrmm ... black background is soooo 1990s .... the content is lacking from a marketing perpective, there is little to draw you in, no five second 'hit', nothing to draw you in and little to tell you why you should want to visit the site again. (Can't you tell which sad bunny has been having to deal with web-designers over his new website :wink: )
He's not looking for people to come back and visit his web site, he's wanting people to visit his club. All the information you need is right there.

My mind still boggles over web sites I've come across for dance events and even hotels that don't tell you the most basic information – like where the place is!

Sure he could do more, but I'm not sure his target market (if he actually has one in mind) will be finding out about this club via his web site – word of mouth is much more likely.

scotttwin
23rd-October-2006, 08:13 PM
I enjoy reading the forum, but rarely post as I am usually too busy with work to follow a thread for very long. However, I feel compelled to contribute to this thread having gone to Simon's supposed (non-commercial) party.

Call me old-fashioned, but I don't like being taken for a fool. The night was all about collecting dancers email addresses and launching a new business venture. I think this is despicable behaviour and whether I enjoyed the night or not, which I have to say I didn't, I would never support anything this individual does again.

I am very surprised by some of the posts who seem to regard these tactics as socially or commercially acceptable. Perhaps it's a reflection of society that nobody really seems to care anymore about morals, honesty and decency. I would urge some of you to get a backbone and treat Simon with the contempt he deserves.

I for one do not wish Simon well in his new future, to me there seems to be very little to be proud off. Isn’t Simon just trying to cream off all the hard work that Ceroc London has done over the years. I would respect Simon if he were trying to establish his own market, but when he has targeted existing dancers and teaches intermediate and advanced classes it’s clear what market he is going for. I for one receive the emails from Ceroc London asking for people to help with their busking, I can rarely help, but the list of busks is extensive – I wonder how many busks Simon has done, or indeed how many he will be doing to grow the market.

I spoke with someone who was helping out on the night and they mentioned to me how embarrassed and angry they were having been asked to help only to find out half way through the night they were part of some form of “conspiracy”. Simon might have 700 friends, but does he have any he hasn’t used yet?

This new night will fail, and Simon trying to impose the ‘Australian model’ on London will also fail. In 3 months time Simon will be operating from a smaller hall having dropped the Australian model of unnecessary fixed footwork – would anyone like to place a bet?

Scott

David Bailey
23rd-October-2006, 08:34 PM
Hi Scotttwin!

Call me old-fashioned, but I don't like being taken for a fool. The night was all about collecting dancers email addresses and launching a new business venture. I think this is despicable behaviour and whether I enjoyed the night or not, which I have to say I didn't, I would never support anything this individual does again.

I am very surprised by some of the posts who seem to regard these tactics as socially or commercially acceptable. Perhaps it's a reflection of society that nobody really seems to care anymore about morals, honesty and decency. I would urge some of you to get a backbone and treat Simon with the contempt he deserves.
I respect the fact you say what you mean, and that you have principles.

However, I don't think anyone's cheering his methods - and whilst I don't feel as strongly as you, I personally agree that it would have been morally and (to me) commercially more acceptable to be straight from the start. He's definitely lost some goodwill from the experienced-dancer community, from what people are saying.


I for one do not wish Simon well in his new future, to me there seems to be very little to be proud off. Isn’t Simon just trying to cream off all the hard work that Ceroc London has done over the years.

I would respect Simon if he were trying to establish his own market, but when he has targeted existing dancers and teaches intermediate and advanced classes it’s clear what market he is going for.
I dunno, really. I see it more as attempting to fill a new market.

If he were genuinely going for the intermediate / advanced market, I'd say he'd have no chance - both from loss of goodwill and because the venue clearly isn't right for those people. But I don't think that's the market he's aiming for. Admittedly, this is all inference, I know nothing about his business plans beyond extrapolation, but that seems the sensible way to go.


This new night will fail, and Simon trying to impose the ‘Australian model’ on London will also fail. In 3 months time Simon will be operating from a smaller hall having dropped the Australian model of unnecessary fixed footwork – would anyone like to place a bet?
No, you may well be right.

For me, the bottom line is that I'm mainly a punter - and if someone opens up a new venue, I'm pleased. Generally, I don't make moral decisions about where to dance, I go for the places I want to dance in.

Lou
23rd-October-2006, 11:08 PM
If he were genuinely going for the intermediate / advanced market, I'd say he'd have no chance - both from loss of goodwill and because the venue clearly isn't right for those people. But I don't think that's the market he's aiming for. Admittedly, this is all inference, I know nothing about his business plans beyond extrapolation, but that seems the sensible way to go..
Yeah. Why let facts spoil a perfectly enjoyable bit of speculation? From the website:



7:00pm Beginner Class
7:45pm Progression
Intermediate and
Advanced Classes
8.30pm 3 hours of awesome freestyle

So - basically he's teaching the standard MJ class model - with the addition of Progression and Advanced classes. Isn't that excedingly similar to the teaching model you've posted about as being ideal?


... In 3 months time Simon will be operating from a smaller hall having dropped the Australian model of unnecessary fixed footwork
Oooh! Evil! :eek: Fixed footwork! Will this man's crimes never end.... :rolleyes:

:whistle:

ducasi
23rd-October-2006, 11:23 PM
I wasn't there, but I'm curious... How did he fool people into providing email addresses?

There are data protection laws which (I'm sure) set down that when personal information is gathered, what purpose it will be used for must be stated, and an "opt-out" must also be available if it includes marketing.

Gus
23rd-October-2006, 11:27 PM
I wasn't there, but I'm curious... How did he fool people into providing email addresses?

There are data protection laws which (I'm sure) set down that when personal information is gathered, what purpose it will be used for must be stated, and an "opt-out" must also be available if it includes marketing.And you think a little thing like that is going to make any difference? :whistle:

stewart38
24th-October-2006, 12:30 AM
I wasn't there, but I'm curious... How did he fool people into providing email addresses?

There are data protection laws which (I'm sure) set down that when personal information is gathered, what purpose it will be used for must be stated, and an "opt-out" must also be available if it includes marketing.

why is he getting such bad press here ?

He has my e-mail address, i didnt go

If i dont like it i can block it, sorted

I think the web site and idea is great and I wish him and his little helpers all the best :grin:

under par
24th-October-2006, 12:46 AM
I wasn't there, but I'm curious... How did he fool people into providing email addresses?

.

Absolutely no e-mail addresses where asked for nor obtained from any one I know of at the Hippodrome and this is a red herring topic on this thread as far as I'm concerned.

Spin dryer
24th-October-2006, 12:51 AM
Absolutely no e-mail addresses where asked for nor obtained from any one I know of at the Hippodrome and this is a red herring topic on this thread as far as I'm concerned.

There was a free raffle. As I understand it, you had to give your email address and phone number for your ticket to be put in the pot.

under par
24th-October-2006, 12:58 AM
Call me old-fashioned, but I don't like being taken for a fool. The night was all about collecting dancers email addresses and launching a new business venture.
Scott

Again I say when and where were e-mail addresses asked for???:confused:

I was pm'd and replied by pm.

No e-mail was requested on the night or beforehand to my knowledge.

under par
24th-October-2006, 01:07 AM
There was a free raffle. As I understand it, you had to give your email address and phone number for your ticket to be put in the pot.


If that was the case, they missed me and the group I arrived with and I now understand what you are all going on about.

I am wrong and sorry about my prvious 2 posts.

bigdjiver
24th-October-2006, 01:08 AM
If the post about the Hippodrome losing their general license is correct the the actual business model might be to put on some early evening classes so it looks like a privately booked dance class for members only, and the Hippodrome certainly has a license to sell alcohol at such.

Come the nightclup hours run the place like it used to be run, except that the customers have to join the club. In this obviously completely fantastical scenarion the target customer would be same as it was before, people who want to go clubbing. The only difference being that if they turn up early they get some free dance classes in some weird arcane form of dance., plus a new customer intake, some MJ'ers who want some different classes before spending the night clubbing. I repeat, fantastical ...

Feelingpink
24th-October-2006, 08:02 AM
There was a free raffle. As I understand it, you had to give your email address and phone number for your ticket to be put in the pot.The raffle was not free.

Minnie M
24th-October-2006, 08:03 AM
why is he getting such bad press here ?

He has my e-mail address, i didnt go

If i dont like it i can block it, sorted

I think the web site and idea is great and I wish him and his little helpers all the best :grin:

:yeah: :flower: :yeah:
Most guests were guests of others who had not supplied email details only names.

mikeyr
24th-October-2006, 10:16 AM
There was a free raffle. As I understand it, you had to give your email address and phone number for your ticket to be put in the pot.

There was a free raffle as well as the money one, for the free one there was a space for an Email address as there was for phone number, I had the choice of putting either or neither, I chose neither. My entry was still put in the pot, I assume that means it was not a mandatory requirement to enter the raffle, it also was not a condition of entry, I was contacted via PM on this forum, so as far as I am aware Simon doesnt have my email.

However, whenever I go to a Ceroc franchise that is not the one that issued my card I find that I am put under varying degrees of pressure to provide contact details for the mailing lists, even when I explain I am just there for that night. some even try to issue me a new card.......... Why is that, can anybody tell me :confused:

TheTramp
24th-October-2006, 10:21 AM
However, whenever I go to a Ceroc franchise that is not the one that issued my card I find that I am put under varying degrees of pressure to provide contact details for the mailing lists, even when I explain I am just there for that night. some even try to issue me a new card.......... Why is that, can anybody tell me :confused:

I had the same happen to me when I went to Rebel Roc (back before it was taken over). I explained that I was there as a one-off, and (probably) wasn't going to be going back any time soon, since I lived in Scotland. But I still had to pay for a card, and provide my contact details onto their form.

They didn't look at it after I'd filled it in though. So I wonder if Mickey Mouse (sorry Minnie, first name that came to mind) is getting the emails they send out to him in Disneyland.com....

David Bailey
24th-October-2006, 10:34 AM
So - basically he's teaching the standard MJ class model - with the addition of Progression and Advanced classes. Isn't that excedingly similar to the teaching model you've posted about as being ideal?
It's the standard Australian model I believe - and yes, if it were really like that, I'd be very happy. But I very much doubt there'll be many experienced dancers there - OK, yes, speculation, but very well informed speculation. I can't see Jango-level classes there somehow, in other words.

Also, unless the place has grown a hell of a lot since I was there, I can't see them fitting 3 simultaneous classes on the single floor without a lot of crowding.

So I suspect that format was more of an aspiration than a promise, as the politicians say...

NZ Monkey
24th-October-2006, 10:44 AM
{snip some reservations that many of us share}

This new night will fail, and Simon trying to impose the ‘Australian model’ on London will also fail. In 3 months time Simon will be operating from a smaller hall having dropped the Australian model of unnecessary fixed footwork – would anyone like to place a bet?

Scott I’m running on the not-too-wild assumption that Simon will be teaching the Australian model as well. I’m curious why you think that’s a liability though. It works pretty damn well in Australia after all…

Simon is unlikely to make a huge (or even a barely perceptible) dent in the ‘’intermediate’’ and ‘’advanced’’ dancer market that Ceroc London has at the moment because those people like what they’ve grown comfortable with. Just like Ceroc most of his students will be beginners, and beginners will learn what you teach them and accept it as part of the exercise (within reason of course :innocent:) pretty much without question.

I can guarantee there are a few Australians out there who are disillusioned with Ceroc London who would jump at the chance to do things the way they did them in Australia. It’s a fair assumption that Simon knows a few of them himself. Even if there are only half a dozen he can convince to support him then he has an ‘’advanced’’ skill base that more than a few Ceroc clubs would be jealous to have. Having more advanced dancers around to help out makes a big difference to how quickly a club develops.

On the footwork note, I can think of a few Ceroc UK teachers who insist that set footwork patterns are a must as well, and they’re certainly in positions to justify their opinions. I don’t see it as an evil at all. In fact, I see it as a positive.

For that matter, I’ve heard respected teachers in the UK praise his teaching ability in general, and especially his ability to motivate. I’ve only ever seen him teaching in weekenders myself so I can’t speak from personal experience beyond that, but I’ve enjoyed those.

Simon was trying to create a party atmosphere on Friday, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that all the music he’ll be playing in his venue will be like that. His website includes a music selection that suggests we might expect a greater range in future. I’m sure he was shrewdly considering that impression when he developed the site, but it doesn’t mean he’s lying about it either.

I have no idea if Simon can pull this venture off. What I will say is that I’m not going to rule his success out considering his track record at building ventures previously. Whatever you may think about him personally (and I have strong reservations just like everyone else here does) – he knows the business as well, as if not better than, anyone. Most of his clientele won’t be forumites, but I saw a packed dance floor full of people who were having a good time on Friday who may well disagree with the consensus here.

I intend to give him time to prove himself and see what he’s doing with my own eyes before I make too many judgements.

Amir
24th-October-2006, 11:08 AM
Call me old-fashioned, but I don't like being taken for a fool. The night was all about collecting dancers email addresses and launching a new business venture. I think this is despicable behaviour and whether I enjoyed the night or not, which I have to say I didn't, I would never support anything this individual does again.


If you are wearing shop bought clothes, eating supermarket bought food, or living anywhere in the west you are almost certainly supporting countless companies and individuals with despicable behaviour.





Perhaps it's a reflection of society that nobody really seems to care anymore about morals, honesty and decency.


Choosing when you are going to announce your new dance night is not a question of morals. How is anyone worse off because of when they found out about jivenation?




I for one do not wish Simon well in his new future, to me there seems to be very little to be proud off. Isn’t Simon just trying to cream off all the hard work that Ceroc London has done over the years. I would respect Simon if he were trying to establish his own market, but when he has targeted existing dancers and teaches intermediate and advanced classes it’s clear what market he is going for.

Simon was one of the people doing the hard work for Ceroc.

There were apparently 300 at the party who had never done jive before.

Neither Simon nor anyone else will be able to run a successful night without lots of their own hard work. If you can fill the Hippodrome on a Monday night then you've busted your ozzie arse.

bigdjiver
24th-October-2006, 11:14 AM
... However, whenever I go to a Ceroc franchise that is not the one that issued my card I find that I am put under varying degrees of pressure to provide contact details for the mailing lists, even when I explain I am just there for that night. some even try to issue me a new card.......... Why is that, can anybody tell me :confused:Each Franchise is a separate business. It is supposed to be a member only organisation, and some venues only let on that basis. A portion of the membership fee goes back to Head Office, and the franchisee works under those arrangements.

Dan Hudson
24th-October-2006, 11:16 AM
Simon was one of the people doing the hard work for Ceroc..
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


There were apparently 300 at the party who had never done jive before...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Neither Simon nor anyone else will be able to run a successful night without lots of their own hard work. If you can fill the Hippodrome on a Monday night then you've busted your ozzie arse.

Not if they are all somebody elses punters it doesne't, we can all send PM's and emails to get customers :mad:

Amir
24th-October-2006, 11:43 AM
I have been told by people at Ceroc that Simon works harder than any other Ceroc teacher.

If you were at the event there were obviously many people who had not done jive before. I didn't count them, but I don't actually care.

A few pms on the forum or emails will not be enough to fill the Hippodrome every Monday. If he fills it it is because he and his team have worked hard. I just don't believe there is an easy way to fill a venue with paying customers.

fletch
24th-October-2006, 12:11 PM
There were apparently 300 at the party who had never done jive before.
.


I danced with quite a few people that had not done any form of MJ, one was from Birmingham and new very close freinds of mine, :clap: (small world)

I also chatted to several people that hadn't done any MJ and didn't feel confident enough to have a go, but were going to start with lessons :clap:

If I had have been told before hand that it was a promotional night it would have made no difference at all, I think most of knew there would be some kind of anouncment, I carn see what the problem is.


And I was not asked for my e-mail address :(



.

El Salsero Gringo
24th-October-2006, 12:38 PM
If I had have been told before hand that it was a promotional night it would have made no difference at all, I think most of knew there would be some kind of anouncment, I carn see what the problem is.Many people have done their best to explain what the "problem" - tiny as it is - was ... I don't think it could be explained any clearer!

fletch
24th-October-2006, 12:51 PM
Many people have done their best to explain what the "problem" - tiny as it is - was ... I don't think it could be explained any clearer!

Yes, I know they have,:rolleyes: but all this 'SHOCK HORROR' 'I FEEL SO USED' comments that have been made, just seems to me to be a reason for a whinge, :what: am I supposed to believe that the people who have made those comments are so nieve(spell check can't find this word) to think that there wouldn't be some kind of announcement,:confused: i don't think so!:rolleyes:

David Bailey
24th-October-2006, 01:06 PM
Yes, I know they have,:rolleyes: but all this 'SHOCK HORROR' 'I FEEL SO USED' comments that have been made, just seems to me to be a reason for a whinge, :what: am I supposed to believe that the people who have made those comments are so nieve(spell check can't find this word) to think that there wouldn't be some kind of announcement,:confused: i don't think so!:rolleyes:
Well, people tend to believe what they're told. Yes, you could call it gullibility, or naivete, if you want, but that's the way a lot of people are. By the way, I'm a 6'2" slim 25-year-old, with lots of flowing hair, bulging muscles and washboard abs, in case anyone wants to know.

Anyway, when I heard about it, I thought "Hmmm, that's weird", but then I thought maybe 250 was some number of cosmic significance for Ozzies :rofl:

Actually, that's a lie - I just thought "that's a bit weird" but then didn't think much of it after that.

El Salsero Gringo
24th-October-2006, 01:10 PM
Yes, I know they have,:rolleyes: but all this 'SHOCK HORROR' 'I FEEL SO USED' comments that have been made, just seems to me to be a reason for a whinge, :what: am I supposed to believe that the people who have made those comments are so nieve(spell check can't find this word) to think that there wouldn't be some kind of announcement,:confused: i don't think so!:rolleyes:You're quite right, nobody died.

(Naive by the way, I think, or naïve if one wants to show off.)

fletch
24th-October-2006, 01:14 PM
Actually, that's a lie - I just thought "that's a bit weird" but then didn't think much of it after that.


mmmm didn't think much after that :rolleyes: Naivete then :wink:

Thanks for the spelling, spell check had no chance with my version :blush:


and your description of you, is exacterly the way I would have discribed you :drool:

.

scotttwin
24th-October-2006, 02:15 PM
As you can see I haven't quite got the knack of the technology - my apologies to you - my post is in bold



If you are wearing shop bought clothes, eating supermarket bought food, or living anywhere in the west you are almost certainly supporting countless companies and individuals with despicable behaviour.

Amir, I am delighted that you acknowledge that the behaviour of Simon is up there with Indian sweat shops and unethical business practices. We all make choices in this life about whether we care about integrity and ethics; you have made your position very clear. Personally, I enjoy my dancing and Ceroc London allows me to do that. I am a loyal Ceroc customer, but I too believe that competition is a good thing - this doesn't make me unloyal. However what I despise in all walks of life are manipulative people and organisations - I was one of the many fools that bought my old mate Simon a 'Anniversary' card believing that was what the night was about.

It seems to me that whilst Ceroc London are the only organisation making any real attempt to attract new people into the world of Modern Jive in London - they should be thanked and celebrated - something I know rarely happens on this Forum.

I invite all London MJ organisers to come onto this thread and tell us all what marketing strategies they have or indeed how much money they have spent on marketing and promotion.

Choosing when you are going to announce your new dance night is not a question of morals. How is anyone worse off because of when they found out about jivenation?

Amir, you really don't get it. I see little point in replying to this paragraph as clearly integrity and honesty aren't things that you expect from your friends or indeed the people you deal with.

Simon was one of the people doing the hard work for Ceroc.

Yes and I suspect he was paid for it. Your point is......

There were apparently 300 at the party who had never done jive before.

Amir, in the class beginners were asked to put their hands up - I counted about 10!
Neither Simon nor anyone else will be able to run a successful night without lots of their own hard work. If you can fill the Hippodrome on a Monday night then you've busted your ozzie arse.

Amir, clearly there was a lot of hard work in attracting 500 people on Friday; hatching a cunning plan from behind a keyboard is tiring.

Scott
(Popping out to get myself a free trade Latte)

Gus
24th-October-2006, 02:25 PM
Amir, you really don't get it. I see little point in replying to this paragraph as clearly integrity and honesty aren't things that you expect from your friends or indeed the people you deal with.Pal, you obviously haven't dealt with Amir. I have. I've found him ALWAYS to be most respectful and a role model for those of us in MJ. Many others will tell you the same. By all means have a go at SB based on the facts of last Friday but I would suggest you apologise for you ill-informed comment re Amir immedeatly. :angry:

Feelingpink
24th-October-2006, 02:38 PM
As you can see I haven't quite got the knack of the technology - my apologies to you - my post is in bold




Amir, clearly there was a lot of hard work in attracting 500 people on Friday; hatching a cunning plan from behind a keyboard is tiring.

Scott
(Popping out to get myself a free trade Latte)What - the fact that you mind where your coffee comes from makes you able to preach morals to others? Yeah, right. And the fact that you have to tell us ... :sick: It must be lonely on your righteous pedestal, looking down on us mere mortals, who from time to time, are apt to make mistakes.

David Bailey
24th-October-2006, 03:40 PM
Right, seeing as no-one else's going to pop their heads over the parapet, I guess I'll have to give a review of the First Night At The Hippodrome (last night).

Cunningly disguising myself as Simon Borland's waistcoat, I managed to infiltrate my way inside to see what the fuss was all about.

First, the good news:

The floor's much better now, none of the stickiness from Friday
The music's also been sorted, much less thump-thumpy.
The atmosphere was excellent - there's a lot to be said for a nightclub, after all
The freestyle goes on for three hours :clap:


Bad points:

No advanced class - just standard 1 beginner and 1 intermediate class
£10 is a bit steep if you also factor in (say) £5 for travelcard transport.
Low numbers at the moment - so difficult to avoid certain people :whistle:


From my waistcoat-eye view, I couldn't tell you what the routine was, but I assume some footwork was involved.

I also spotted some forum presence with XXXXXX and XXX_XX_XXXXXX there.

All in all, if you're in the area, I think it's worth checking out.

Gus
24th-October-2006, 03:56 PM
Right, seeing as no-one else's going to pop their heads over the parapet, I guess I'll have to give a review of the First Night At The Hippodrome (last night).

Cunningly disguising myself as Simon Borland's waistcoat, I managed to infiltrate my way inside to see what the fuss was all about.Many thanks for the objective review. So it sounds like SB is making it happen. Would be interested to know as to how he's differentiating it from a standard Ceroc(tm) night. The 3 hrs of freestyle might really help (but £10 ?? :tears: ).

Feelingpink
24th-October-2006, 03:59 PM
...
Cunningly disguising myself as Simon Borland's waistcoat, I managed to infiltrate my way inside to see what the fuss was all about.
...
From my waistcoat-eye view, I couldn't tell you what the routine was, but I assume some footwork was involved....
All in all, if you're in the area, I think it's worth checking out.You sly dog. Waistcoat level is about .... well, boob height, right? No wonder you had a good night ... :wink: :devil:

David Bailey
24th-October-2006, 04:00 PM
You sly dog. Waistcoat level is about .... well, boob height, right? No wonder you had a good night ... :wink: :devil:
Hey, I know Simon's put on weight, but man-boobs? Not doing much for me.. :eek: :sick:

scotttwin
24th-October-2006, 04:06 PM
What - the fact that you mind where your coffee comes from makes you able to preach morals to others? Yeah, right. And the fact that you have to tell us ... :sick: It must be lonely on your righteous pedestal, looking down on us mere mortals, who from time to time, are apt to make mistakes.

Nobody is preaching to anybody, I am merely giving my opinion and commenting on others - I thought that was the point of a Forum. Please let me know if I have misunderstood this.

I'm sorry if you think I am preaching, I just feel very strongly about this, as indeed so do many others.

Gus - I apologise for nothing, your sycophant post is probably what I would expect from a non-Ceroc teacher.

I also think that Amir can probably speak for himself.

Scott

Feelingpink
24th-October-2006, 04:11 PM
Nobody is preaching to anybody, I am merely giving my opinion and commenting on others - I thought that was the point of a Forum. Please let me know if I have misunderstood this.Quite. If this is the case, then why did you feel the need to mention what kind of coffee you were going to drink?


I'm sorry if you think I am preaching, I just feel very strongly about this, as indeed so do many others. ... who are also capable to expressing their own opinions on the forum.


Gus - I apologise for nothing, your sycophant post is probably what I would expect from a non-Ceroc teacher.You do know Gus' teaching history, don't you? :devil:


I also think that Amir can probably speak for himself.

ScottAh, you are so right - an erudite, knowledgeable poster if ever there was one.

Gus
24th-October-2006, 04:17 PM
Gus - I apologise for nothing, your sycophant post is probably what I would expect from a non-Ceroc teacher.Ouch! :tears: I feel violated, abused ... but not quite sure why.:rolleyes: Come on CTAs of the world, anyone want to help out as clearly non-CTA teachers have nothing to contribute :what:.

Alice
24th-October-2006, 04:17 PM
Pal, you obviously haven't dealt with Amir. I have. I've found him ALWAYS to be most respectful and a role model for those of us in MJ. Many others will tell you the same. By all means have a go at SB based on the facts of last Friday but I would suggest you apologise for you ill-informed comment re Amir immedeatly. :angry:
:yeah: Well said:worthy: :worthy:

David Bailey
24th-October-2006, 04:27 PM
Ouch! :tears: I feel violated, abused ... but not quite sure why.
It's not your day is it? :rofl:

stewart38
24th-October-2006, 05:05 PM
I didnt go but e-mailed simon and he responded and said that he would do it again soon and e-mail me early :worthy:

TurboTomato
24th-October-2006, 06:13 PM
Absolutely no e-mail addresses where asked for nor obtained from any one I know of at the Hippodrome and this is a red herring topic on this thread as far as I'm concerned.
:yeah:

I was never asked for my email address, nor gave it out

Zebra Woman
24th-October-2006, 06:31 PM
I went

.... and I didn't feel violated at all. :innocent:

Simon goes home every night and notches on his bedpost another Ceroc class taught...hmmmm I don't think so. It was clear to most of us that celebrating 250 dance classes was a very unlikely reason for a party so we were definitely expecting Simon to announce something. I was amazed it was a weekly class, on a Monday and £10! Gobsmacked, I was expecting a monthly freestyle of some sort.

The night totally lived up to my expectations (which were quite low). I was expecting hoardes of people, really loud clubby music, not enough space to dance. Tick, tick and tick.

Initially I had a great time socialising and some nice (if a little confined) dances, by midnight though the lack of variety in music had become very wearing. I wonder if the DJs fellt the same way? I felt that the whole set up especially the strobe lights were crying out for a younger clientele..ie. not me :blush: .

Amir and Cat were stunning in the fog :respect: but a lot less fog would have been better.

David Bailey
24th-October-2006, 07:56 PM
I went

.... and I didn't feel violated at all. :innocent:
Well, to be fair, I didn't go.


I felt that the whole set up especially the strobe lights were crying out for a younger clientele..ie. not me :blush:
They didn't have the lights on last night.


Amir and Cat were stunning in the fog :respect: but a lot less fog would have been better.
Well, if you hadn't been stuck up in the Elite Cliquey VIP Area, you'd have seen them without the fog. :na:

Lory
24th-October-2006, 08:24 PM
Well, if you hadn't been stuck up in the Elite Cliquey VIP Area, you'd have seen them without the fog. :na:

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, you've really got this bit wrong! :rolleyes: There was NO V.I.P bit, everyone was free to go wherever they liked.

It just happened by pure fluke, that the people stood downstairs, right in front of the stage/floor, had the most smoke to contend with, during the performance.:sick:

David Bailey
24th-October-2006, 08:40 PM
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, you've really got this bit wrong! :rolleyes: There was NO V.I.P bit, everyone was free to go wherever they liked.
I know, just teasing :na:

(Actually, where the forumites were was technically the VIP bit, I believe, but I'm sure that was just coincidence)

under par
24th-October-2006, 08:43 PM
I know, just teasing :na:

(Actually, where the forumites were was technically the VIP bit, I believe, but I'm sure that was just coincidence)

We know our place us forum people:wink:

frodo
24th-October-2006, 08:56 PM
£10 is a bit steep if you also factor in (say) £5 for travelcard transport.
[/LIST]

I think the central location, and the ease of travelling to / from central London / likelihood of travelling through anyway offsets the cost nicely.

I notice Ceroc Surrey are shortly starting to charge £8.00 for venues in rather less prime locations.

Spin dryer
24th-October-2006, 11:54 PM
I am told that there were approximately 10 people at the first Jive Nation "Super Club" night on Monday 23 October. I doubt that anyone can verify, but let us know if you can. As per my post on the other Boreland (sic) thread, no defamatory comments please.

Amir
25th-October-2006, 12:48 AM
Amir, you really don't get it. I see little point in replying to this paragraph as clearly integrity and honesty aren't things that you expect from your friends or indeed the people you deal with.


Well you're right. I don't expect honesty from anyone. When I encounter it, it is often an unpleasant surprise.

But I don't think with-holding the truth, or even lying, is immoral unless it harms someone. It might not be 'nice', like not saying 'please' and 'thankyou' is not nice, but that doesn't make it immoral.

A government lying about a war is immoral. People die because you lied.

Me lying about a girl looking great in a certain pair of trousers is not immoral. Sometimes it is pure self defense.

The following statement is not very honest:



Amir, I am delighted that you acknowledge that the behavior of Simon is up there with Indian sweat shops and unethical business practices.

I mean, I obviously don't think that, and I don't think you do either. So the statement lacks integrity. But that doesn't make it immoral.

David Bailey
25th-October-2006, 08:52 AM
I am told that there were approximately 10 people at the first Jive Nation "Super Club" night on Monday 23 October. I doubt that anyone can verify, but let us know if you can. As per my post on the other Boreland (sic) thread, no defamatory comments please.
More than 10, less than 700.

I also don't think it's right to judge based on numbers for the first night of a new venue - I don't see anyone posting the Jango numbers on a regular basis for example. Any new venue will have low numbers to start off - Ashtons only had a couple of dozen for ages when it started.

Astro
29th-October-2006, 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by Spin dryer http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/images/orange_buttons_basic/viewpost.gif (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=296921#post296921)
I am told that there were approximately 10 people at the first Jive Nation "Super Club" night on Monday 23 October. I doubt that anyone can verify, but let us know if you can. As per my post on the other Boreland (sic) thread, no defamatory comments please.


SpinDryer's soure is wrong, as I was there myself.There may still have been 10 people still dancing at 11-30 when it finished, the rest & myself having left earleir.

The constant ongoing critisism of Simon is also completeley wrong, especially regarding the commercial email address harvesting accusation. I followed Simon's website advice & sent him my guestlist of 10 names. Similarly Natalie at 02 centre sent in 9 names. Simon ONLY has Natalie's & my email addresses,... both of us being group leaders. The group leaders then re-send the invitation to their list. If he had wanted a large email address list he would not have done it this way.Would he!
... and NO, should someone ask, Simon has not asked me for my friends email addresses

Spin dryer
29th-October-2006, 05:51 PM
http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/images/orange_buttons_basic/viewpost.gif (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=296921#post296921)
I am told that there were approximately 10 people at the first Jive Nation "Super Club" night on Monday 23 October. I doubt that anyone can verify, but let us know if you can. As per my post on the other Boreland (sic) thread, no defamatory comments please.

SpinDryer's soure is wrong, as I was there myself.There may still have been 10 people still dancing at 11-30 when it finished, the rest & myself having left earleir.
[/I]

At a party last night I overheard someone question Boreland about numbers. He says that there were 40 people in total on the first night. He also mentioned that he has booked the Hippodrome for the next 12 weeks.

David Bailey
29th-October-2006, 09:04 PM
So, who's going tomorrow night?

I'm happy to act as fly-on-the-waistcoat reviewer again, if you want to send me your reviews anonymously :)

Spin dryer
31st-October-2006, 01:03 AM
A rather more conciliatory and self-effacing message from Boreland and Co received by email today:

"Thanks for the range of feedback about the ideas for running energetic Modern Jive nights in the centre of London - there has been loads of great ideas, some useful feedback, and many learnings for us.

Particular thanks to those of you who have been kind enough to write your thoughts, the good the bad and the ugly, to me directly, and I have been busily responding in all cases to each of you directly - very much appreciated!

Our teachers never ever leave the dance floor - come and experience the energy for yourself.

With exuberance, energy and passion,

Simon, Susie and Seamus"

Minnie M
31st-October-2006, 08:40 AM
Our teachers never ever leave the dance floor - come and experience the energy for yourself.

With exuberance, energy and passion,

Simon, Susie and Seamus"

:respect: :yeah: :worthy: Can't talk for Susie but "exuberance, energy and passion" is definitely what the guys have, I LOVE dancing with Simon always a fantastic dance :worthy: and Seamus Waldron IMO is one of the best leads in London :respect:

Feelingpink
31st-October-2006, 08:50 AM
A rather more conciliatory and self-effacing message from Boreland and Co received by email today:

"Thanks for the range of feedback about the ideas for running energetic Modern Jive nights in the centre of London - there has been loads of great ideas, some useful feedback, and many learnings for us.

Particular thanks to those of you who have been kind enough to write your thoughts, the good the bad and the ugly, to me directly, and I have been busily responding in all cases to each of you directly - very much appreciated!

Our teachers never ever leave the dance floor - come and experience the energy for yourself.

With exuberance, energy and passion,

Simon, Susie and Seamus"It's great that they were able to receive feedback. When I tried to send a note to Simon after his party via his website, my email was rejected, saying the address did not exist.

stewart38
31st-October-2006, 01:28 PM
More than 10, less than 700.

I also don't think it's right to judge based on numbers for the first night of a new venue - I don't see anyone posting the Jango numbers on a regular basis for example. Any new venue will have low numbers to start off - Ashtons only had a couple of dozen for ages when it started.

I think some people want to try and destroy something that is new :sad:

If someone says there was only 10 people there of course that would put others off.

I think its nasty and not called for

Its a new venture and a new concept as Ive said before good luck to them :yeah:

Gus
31st-October-2006, 01:34 PM
If someone says there was only 10 people there of course that would put others off. In the absence of fact, rumour pervades. Where is our weekly report form our covert investigator, Messr DJ? Was anyone actualy there? Was chatting to a leading light last night and he expressed a firm view that REGARDLESS of how the venture wa set-up, it can only be to the good of MJ/Ceroc if it succeeds, and I tend to agree. Even if its not to the tastes of many of the Forum, it does hold many possibilites and maybe it will give somone somehwere else the confidence to 'give it a go'. London already has Utopia to look forward to ... wonder if we might try something similar in the cold dark North? :rolleyes:

Actualy, I know someone who has been planning a smaller one-off project for a while and it should come off in December. Whether it works or not, who knows. BUT, at least they are trying.:nice:

David Bailey
31st-October-2006, 02:00 PM
In the absence of fact, rumour pervades. Where is our weekly report form our covert investigator, Messr DJ?
Righto, yes, sorry - forgot about that.

Ahem.

Disguised as the third button down on the waistcoat (the shiny one, just above the danger line of the opening), I snuck in again last night.

The big news is that there was a genuine celeb there last night (apart from me of course), but I won't divulge his identity. :)

The attendance was definitely up on last week - about 50% more I reckon. The three-hour freestyle thing seems to be attracting latecomers, people were still arriving around 10pm or later.

It also makes a big difference with there being a proper grownup sound system - and also now they've fixed the floor and removed the lights. The atmosphere is very different from a normal Ceroc night.

And of course, it being Central London, there's loads of food / drink places to go afterwards.

Next week: The Second Button :eek:

NZ Monkey
31st-October-2006, 02:29 PM
Well, I went along last night to see how everything was shaping up and I have this much to say:

I cannot think of a regular class and freestyle night I’ve been to in the UK that I had more fun at than last night. I only mention the UK part because you always have fond memories of the places and people you started with and not because of anything else (before anyone misinterprets that statement :flower:).


Points of Note:

Class Numbers
The numbers were fairly low, but that’s hardly a surprise to anyone considering it’s only two weeks old. For the lions share of the evening there were around 20 people on the floor, which was a nice change to the more crowded venues around London, and there was virtually the entire spectrum of experience on the floor at any given time as well. It was nice to watch, with the teachers very much a part of the class themselves teaching ‘’in the round’’ and interacting personally with their class.

Floor
The floor has definitely been cleaned up since the infamous party. There is no longer broken glass on the carpets and the dance floor isn’t sticky anywhere (that I found). Obviously there is still the issue of grooves( from the raising stage) for the ladies in heels but all things considered these didn’t seem too difficult to avoid. It isn’t the best floor I’ve danced on, but it’s a long way from the worst as well.

Drinks
Tap water if free. It also comes with a hefty supply of ice. Yay :clap:

Music
More of the ‘’standard MJ night’’ fare. For those of you who were worried, it wasn’t excessively clubby, with a few very slow and smooth tracks in the mixture as well and a generally well rounded selection. The music was varied enough that I never found myself wishing a couple of tracks would just end so we could move onto something more interesting.

Sound System
The sound system in the Hippodrome really is excellent, and that makes the music feel so much ‘’better/fuller/something’’ to dance to when you’re on the floor. It may seem like a small thing to a few people, but it’s the small stuff that makes a difference sometimes. It wasn’t as loud as the party, but that shouldn’t be surprising either. An added bonus was that the teachers mic actually worked. I’ve lost count of the number of venues I’ve been to in London where the audio system or acoustics are so bad it’s very difficult to hear the teacher in class (OK, if I put my mind to it I probably could count them – but I’m lazy that way). Simon and Susie were both crystal clear no matter where in the club they happened to be.

The Classes Themselves
Well taught and fun. The beginner’s class is clearly using a different set of beginner moves to Ceroc, including at least a few that are taught as intermediate ones in the UK like the pretzel. There are plenty of moves that could be taught at beginner level but are not for the sake of keeping a manageable list, but I thought some of may find that interesting.

The Intermediate class was very dynamic and interesting without being completely beyond anyone in the class so congratulations to Susie on a job well done there.

Freestyle
As mentioned earlier, there were not huge numbers of people there, but there were enough to keep the evening varied and fun. The ladies in particular had some good dance partners, and the guys were hardly lacking either :flower:


I hope this venture works out for everyone, and that it grows into something sustainable that keeps up the quality of an evening out that I saw last night.

Spin dryer
1st-November-2006, 12:19 AM
I think some people want to try and destroy something that is new :sad:

If someone says there was only 10 people there of course that would put others off.

I think its nasty and not called for

Its a new venture and a new concept as Ive said before good luck to them :yeah:

Preposterous. If someone sets up a commercial venture, then it's open to anyone to critisise it or praise it as they see fit. It's clear from his recent email that Borleland (and therefore his punters) has benefited from the feedback on this and similar threads. What is your point? Are you seriously suggesting that anyone setting up a new venture should be immune from criticism? If so, you can look forward to a world of mediocrity or worse.

David Bailey
1st-November-2006, 09:44 AM
Preposterous. If someone sets up a commercial venture, then it's open to anyone to critisise it or praise it as they see fit. It's clear from his recent email that Borleland (and therefore his punters) has benefited from the feedback on this and similar threads. What is your point? Are you seriously suggesting that anyone setting up a new venture should be immune from criticism? If so, you can look forward to a world of mediocrity or worse.
I think the point is that there was a lot of criticism, which to me at least feels a little like ingratitude, from people at the party. Reminder: free party? Free food? Free exhibitions? Hippodrome? Etc. etc.

As far as I know, no one who's gone to any of the freestyles has had a bad word to say about them, either in private or in public. So no-one's actually criticized the commercial venture - which I agree would be justifiable. They've just "played the ball not the man", as the saying goes, talking about SB rather than about the venue.

El Salsero Gringo
1st-November-2006, 10:22 AM
I think the point is that there was a lot of criticism, which to me at least feels a little like ingratitude, from people at the party. Reminder: free party? Free food? Free exhibitions? Hippodrome? Etc. etc.That's rather silly. So throwing a free party in an expensive venue entitles one to buy off any criticism for one's new business (or at least the way one starts it...)? I know that's what people often intend, but you can't agree, surely?

As far as I know, no one who's gone to any of the freestyles has had a bad word to say about them, either in private or in public. So no-one's actually criticized the commercial venture - which I agree would be justifiable. They've just "played the ball not the man", as the saying goes, talking about SB rather than about the venue.Most of the criticism was about the party - by people who went to the party. So what's the problem?

David Bailey
1st-November-2006, 10:29 AM
That's rather silly. So throwing a free party in an expensive venue entitles one to buy off any criticism for one's new business? I know that's what people often intend, but you can't agree, surely?
There wasn't much criticism of the new business, it all seemed to be of the "violated" variety.

Which is a shame - one could make a "business ethics" case, but not many people did, at least from memory. And I'm very much of the opinion that if some people had enjoyed the (Free Party) night more, they'd have carped less.

(Yes, I'm whingeing about whingeing :rofl:)


Most of the criticism was about the party - by people who went to the party. So what's the problem?
The problem is that I don't feel people were really supportive about the prospect of a new MJ venue - and they should be, because from a punter POV it's a good thing. My impression was that there was a lot of (typically bloody British) criticism of SB's entrepeneurship. Which winds me up.

senorita
1st-November-2006, 10:34 AM
(Yes, I'm whingeing about whingeing :rofl:)

.

:nice: :rofl:

El Salsero Gringo
1st-November-2006, 10:38 AM
There wasn't much criticism of the new business, it all seemed to be of the "violated" variety.Not to rehash old arguments or anything, but the idea of launching a business by throwing an expensive party to buy people's gratitude just makes that feeling stronger!
Which is a shame - one could make a "business ethics" case, but not many people did, at least from memory. And I'm very much of the opinion that if some people had enjoyed the (Free Party) night more, they'd have carped less.There were lots of different points raised; as you say, it's easy to conflate them all into one whinge.
The problem is that I don't feel people were really supportive about the prospect of a new MJ venue - and they should be, because from a punter POV it's a good thing. My impression was that there was a lot of (typically bloody British) criticism of SB's entrepeneurship. Which winds me up.No, I think they would have been much more supportive (the Forum's actually pretty good at that, bar one or two people) except for the way it started out, which blew that goodwill right out of the water.

Lory
1st-November-2006, 10:42 AM
(Yes, I'm whingeing about whingeing :rofl:)


DJ, you really ought to change you avitar.... take your pick :whistle:

TheTramp
1st-November-2006, 10:45 AM
No, I think they would have been much more supportive (the Forum's actually pretty good at that, bar one or two people) except for the way it started out, which blew that goodwill right out of the water.

I tend to agree with DJ (least, I think that it was him who made the point, and I'm too lazy this morning to check) on one point. I think that if people had enjoyed themselves more - ie. better floor, better music (for their taste), more room, less lighting, whatever - then there would have been less complaints about it.

It was the fact that people went, and didn't enjoy themselves that made them start to think about being violated. Of course, this is just supposition, since I wasn't there.

Moral: If you're going to throw a free party and spend (presumably) a large sum of money on doing so, make sure it's a bl00dy good one, or people will moan!

El Salsero Gringo
1st-November-2006, 10:47 AM
Moral: If you're going to throw a free party and spend (presumably) a large sum of money on doing so, make sure it's a bl00dy good one, or people will moan!That's quite true. You can't rely on the "it's free, so don't moan" defence, as this thread has quite effectively shown.

David Bailey
1st-November-2006, 11:01 AM
DJ, you really ought to change you avitar.... take your pick :whistle:
That's "avatar" :na:

Lory
1st-November-2006, 11:08 AM
It was the fact that people went, and didn't enjoy themselves that made them start to think about being violated. Of course, this is just supposition, since I wasn't there.



Well, maybe some of the above is true BUT, I certainly wouldn't have had the cheek to moan if it was simply a private party.

But when something turns out to be a business venture, like it or not, it DOES have a different emphasis.

If I went round someone's house for a dinner party and the food turned out to be horrible, I would never complain or speak badly of that person, i'd simply feel grateful for being invited and appreciative of the effort that went into the evening...

If I went to the same dinner party to celebrate the hosts 250th night being a chef at Luigi's (one of my favourite restaurants, one of which i've been a customer for years) and it turned out to be the launch of a new restaurant. I would also see that party and the poor quality of food, through more critical eyes too! :cool:

TheTramp
1st-November-2006, 11:10 AM
Well, maybe some of the above is true BUT, I certainly wouldn't have had the cheek to moan if it was simply a private party.


Not disagreeing with you at all Lory.

Just think that if everyone who went had a great time, then we'd have seen a lot less moaning about it on here. Even with there being an ulterior motive...

Chef
1st-November-2006, 11:19 AM
I didn't go to the party becuase I was on holiday in Turkey.

BUT

I am very surprised that someone such as Simon Borland, who has such a large amount of exposure to the MJ dance scene would have done the following (based on reports on this thread),

Invited a whole bunch of experienced dancers to an event and then overdone the invites to such an extent that most of them couldn't find enough space to dance for most of the time.

Invited a load of experienced dancers and given them only one type of music to dance to.

Overdone the flashing disco lights to the extent that dancers find it hard to even find their dance partner.

Played the music way too loud so that the vast majority of people that can't be dancing because there is no space can't even socialise with each other without screaming into each others ears.

Hire a "known name" DJ and then give them a remit. Really!! It's like booking Abba and telling them to play punk music. You might as well have just put your iPod on shuffle.


OK. I know it is just my opinion but I regard the above as schoolboy mistakes that I just wouldn't expect someone of SB experience to have made. Whenever someone tells you that they have had a years expereince you have to work out if they have had a years expereince once, or one months experience twelve times.

Also I am the "does what it says on the tin" kind of guy. If it is a launch party call it a launch party. If it is a celebration party call it a celebration party. If it is both then say so. It would save the embarrasing situation for some people eg - what if Mike Ellard or other senior people from the Ceroc organisation had been invited along to what they thought was a celebration party for what they thought was a milestone event in the career of one of their teachers only to find that they were at a party to be informed that said teacher was breaking away and setting up a competing event.

My attitude would be one of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me".

Paul F
1st-November-2006, 11:20 AM
.....lots of interesting points.....

As one of the more outspoken critique dispensers on the 'party' night I, for one, am pleased to hear the points you made.

It sounds like a number of issues were an improvement on the first night. I doubt it will ever be my cup of tea but Im pleased to hear it was better.

I really want to see as many people become interested in dance as possible. This venture can only be a good thing.

Lets hope it improves week on week.

stewart38
1st-November-2006, 04:09 PM
Preposterous. If someone sets up a commercial venture, then it's open to anyone to critisise it or praise it as they see fit. It's clear from his recent email that Borleland (and therefore his punters) has benefited from the feedback on this and similar threads. What is your point? Are you seriously suggesting that anyone setting up a new venture should be immune from criticism? If so, you can look forward to a world of mediocrity or worse.

I think there is a big difference between saying I heard 3rd hand only 10 people went and saying I went and thought the dance floor was to slippery etc

Maybe just me :sick:

cerebus636
1st-November-2006, 07:54 PM
Invited a whole bunch of experienced dancers to an event and then overdone the invites to such an extent that most of them couldn't find enough space to dance for most of the time.


From my nosing around, the breakdown of the attendance was either 400 dancers and 300 non dancers OR 500/200. Comments need to take this into account as it is obvious from either of those figures that there were a significant number of attendees with no MJ dance background at all and that a night run purely for MJ dancers would have gone really pear shaped with a LOT of people. I guess you could say that Simon has a world outside of MJ and wanted to invite 'normal' people ;-)



Overdone the flashing disco lights to the extent that dancers find it hard to even find their dance partner.

Ummm, it was in a nightclub, so I guess there was no choice but to make it like a nightclub. Turning a fantastic nightclub into a town hall would be pretty stupid.



Played the music way too loud so that the vast majority of people that can't be dancing because there is no space can't even socialise with each other without screaming into each others ears.


Having the music too loud is a real problem, be it for the MJ's or the non-MJ's. I can't say I noticed that the music was too loud at the time, though the classic "My bloody ears are ringing" did happen after leaving.



Hire a "known name" DJ and then give them a remit. Really!! It's like booking Abba and telling them to play punk music. You might as well have just put your iPod on shuffle.


Whilst I appreciate that there are other more qulified than I to answer the DJ remit question, my understanding is that the DJ's were given a list of music NOT to play. A very subtle difference that telling a DJ what TO play.



Also I am the "does what it says on the tin" kind of guy. If it is a launch party call it a launch party. If it is a celebration party call it a celebration party. If it is both then say so.


I have no evidence one way or another for what I say next, but why does nobody consider the possibility that the party just took off way more than expected? I've had small parties in the past that just got mobbed. Whilst it is easy to accuse somebody of pre-mediation after the fact, what about the accusation of taking advantage of a snowballing situation?



what if Mike Ellard or other senior people from the Ceroc organisation had been invited along to what they thought was a celebration party for what they thought was a milestone event in the career of one of their teachers only to find that they were at a party to be informed that said teacher was breaking away and setting up a competing event.


From what has been said here and from what I've found out and saw on the night, the top brass at Ceroc were invited and Dave Bradly did attend. What they thought of the whole thing I cannot say as I don't know.

Also, Simon was not one of their teachers in October, he hasn't been teaching a regular venue since the end of July. He did formally quit and from what I can tell, left on good terms (why else would Ceroc ask him to teach lessons at Camber) and without making a song and dance about his reasons for leaving.

As for being invited to something for free and then finding out that the reason was underhand, I recently found out why Ceroc keep sending me emails for 'free' entries. Apparently, I have two Ceroc cards, the one I use all the time and one that I must have been issued one time when I had forgotten my regular card. Turns out that something to do with Ceroc being a private members club and that they need to keep their records up-to-date. Sending me an email with a free entry allows them to know if I am an active member or not and allows them to get more up-to-date information from me. I don't call that cynical, I call that a clever way to keep their records current.

And finally, phew, I really must stop jumping around these subjects, but I don't post often and sometime I have a lot to say ;-) On the question of free entries, I noticed that there are an awfull lot of free entries going around for Ceroc venues right now. Ish being one of them and now the O2 centre. Call me cynical, but isn't Ish Simons old venue? Isn't the 02 Centre on a Monday night and therefore the closet venue and competitor to JXXX NXXX at The Hippodrome? What other Monday night Ceroc venues are there and are people being sent free entries to them?

I guess a response was called for from Ceroc and hopefully this is just that, a subtle one with no fuss or muss. However, could this not be a response at all to JXXX NXXXX, but only a way to prop up attendance at two venues with falling numbers....... ;-)

TheTramp
1st-November-2006, 08:46 PM
Whilst I appreciate that there are other more qulified than I to answer the DJ remit question, my understanding is that the DJ's were given a list of music NOT to play. A very subtle difference that telling a DJ what TO play.

Well. That depends on just how extensive the list of what not to play is! Once you've eliminated everything else, then there is only one thing left to play!

David Bailey
1st-November-2006, 09:51 PM
Ummm, it was in a nightclub, so I guess there was no choice but to make it like a nightclub. Turning a fantastic nightclub into a town hall would be pretty stupid.
Err, except that the lights weren't flashy the last two Mondays...


I have no evidence one way or another for what I say next, but why does nobody consider the possibility that the party just took off way more than expected?
Hey, even I'm not that gullible... :rolleyes:


And finally, phew, I really must stop jumping around these subjects, but I don't post often and sometime I have a lot to say ;-) On the question of free entries, I noticed that there are an awfull lot of free entries going around for Ceroc venues right now. Ish being one of them and now the O2 centre. Call me cynical, but isn't Ish Simons old venue? Isn't the 02 Centre on a Monday night and therefore the closet venue and competitor to JXXX NXXX at The Hippodrome? What other Monday night Ceroc venues are there and are people being sent free entries to them?
Finchley (or perhaps I should call it Fxxxxxxx :) ) - no free entries there AFAIK.

El Salsero Gringo
1st-November-2006, 10:20 PM
Err, except that the lights weren't flashy the last two Mondays..The lights were a lot less flashy on the Friday after I spoke to the lighting guy and told him that the strobe-lights were doing everyone's head in, and could he please not use them any more. Sometimes you only need to ask.

WittyBird
1st-November-2006, 10:27 PM
Finchley (or perhaps I should call it Fxxxxxxx :) ) - no free entries there AFAIK.

You couldn't pay people to go there! :D

Spin dryer
2nd-November-2006, 01:03 AM
I note cerebrus636 that you joined the forum in October 2006 and that your few postings are dedicated to the adulation of a certain Mr Boreland. Are you in fact the very same Mr Boreland?

David Bailey
2nd-November-2006, 09:14 AM
I note cerebrus636 that you joined the forum in October 2006 and that your few postings are dedicated to the adulation of a certain Mr Boreland. Are you in fact the very same Mr Boreland?
Oh God, please not another "Guess the ID" game, I can't take any more... :tears:

Look, the guy's made 3 posts, one of which praises Mike Ellard and two comment on the Hippodrome. All three posts have been informative, and well-balanced IMO, so let's not get too conspiracy-theory-minded yet, huh?

It's possible that Simon Borland doesn't care about the Forum, simply because he realises it doesn't represent his target market. I doubt he'd spend the time and effort to create a false ID, just to surreptitiously subliminally promote his venture. Of course, if he did, I'd feel abused and vio- OK, sorry, that one just slipped out. :blush:

MartinHarper
2nd-November-2006, 12:08 PM
I note cerebrus636 that you joined the forum in October 2006 and that your few postings are dedicated to the adulation of a certain Mr Boreland. Are you in fact the very same Mr Boreland?

Clearly cerebrus is fletch (http://cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5623). And possibly Andy McG too.

WittyBird
2nd-November-2006, 12:11 PM
Clearly cerebrus is fletch (http://cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5623). And possibly Andy McG too.

You've missed out Mikey/Sinner :rolleyes:

Little Monkey
2nd-November-2006, 01:02 PM
I'm curious as to whether Amir, Cat, Kenobe, Will and Kate were in the know, seeing as they're very involved with Monday Lush - that's also on a Monday. Perhaps they don't think there's likely to be any cross-over between the two.

*Pedantic Little Monkey emerges from the cupboard*

Bad donkey!

I think you'll find that Kenobe has no longer got anything to do with 'Monday Lush', as it was once called. It's now Amir and Sheepy running the Monday night Jango, and it's called 'Monday Meltdown'.

Kenobe is in charge of the fabulous 'Funky Lush' events.....

Tsk, tsk.... Get your facts right, donkey boy...:rolleyes: :whistle:

*Pedantic Little Monkey heads back for the cupboard*

stewart38
2nd-November-2006, 01:05 PM
Oh God, please not another "Guess the ID" game, I can't take any more... :tears:

Look, the guy's made 3 posts, one of which praises Mike Ellard and two comment on the Hippodrome. All three posts have been informative, and well-balanced IMO, so let's not get too conspiracy-theory-minded yet, huh?

It's possible that Simon Borland doesn't care about the Forum, simply because he realises it doesn't represent his target market. I doubt he'd spend the time and effort to create a false ID, just to surreptitiously subliminally promote his venture. Of course, if he did, I'd feel abused and vio- OK, sorry, that one just slipped out. :blush:

Im Simon Borland under the name of stewart38, what conspiracy ?

David Bailey
2nd-November-2006, 01:08 PM
I think you'll find that Kenobe has no longer got anything to do with 'Monday Lush', as it was once called. It's now Amir and Sheepy running the Monday night Jango, and it's called 'Monday Meltdown'.

Kenobe is in charge of the fabulous 'Funky Lush' events.....

Tsk, tsk.... Get your facts right, donkey boy...:rolleyes: :whistle:
Blimey, that's news to me - I assumed it was all part of the same cake-eating Mafia. :confused:

I feel a Life-of-Brian-esque "Judean People's Front" quote coming on, but I'll resist. Because I'm above that sort of thing.


Im Simon Borland under the name of stewart38, what conspiracy ?
No, I'm... etc.

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-November-2006, 01:16 PM
It's now Amir and Sheepy running the Monday night Jango, and it's called 'Monday Meltdown'.I can't keep up with these changes, but it doesn't really matter as I can't dance to the music anyway.

TheTramp
2nd-November-2006, 01:22 PM
I think you'll find that Kenobe has no longer got anything to do with 'Monday Lush', as it was once called. It's now Amir and Sheepy running the Monday night Jango, and it's called 'Monday Meltdown'

Doesn't he cover for Sheepy on occasion, when Sheepy is busy further north....?

Might not be involved in running it, but it could definitely be seen as a conflict of interests (by some donkeys, even if not by the people actually involved).

Zebra Woman
2nd-November-2006, 01:26 PM
I can't keep up with these changes, but it doesn't really matter as I can't dance to the music anyway.

TOP TIP:

It's a lot easier if you put your camera down.

David Bailey
2nd-November-2006, 03:13 PM
It's a lot easier if you put your camera down.
Nope, doesn't help me a bit if he puts his camera down.

Zebra Woman
2nd-November-2006, 03:42 PM
Oh I've just noticed ESG, your name is in bold!

Glad to see you've joined the club at last. :clap: :clap: :clap:

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-November-2006, 04:42 PM
Oh I've just noticed ESG, your name is in bold!

Glad to see you've joined the club at last. :clap: :clap: :clap:I specifically asked *not* to be made a member, and to stay a user, but somebody didn't listen.

robd
2nd-November-2006, 04:51 PM
{ESG coughs up}

and lost the Ceroc Teacher byline!

Dropped from the team already?? Not planning on opening an independent Jive night by any chance :whistle:

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-November-2006, 04:58 PM
{ESG coughs up}It was a few weeks ago, but I pm'd Franck about a problem with attachments last week and my membership appears to have been upgraded as a result.[/quote]and lost the Ceroc Teacher byline!


Dropped from the team already?? Not planning on opening an independent Jive night by any chance :whistle:Tell you what, if I ever do, I'll make sure to invite you to the party. Deal?

robd
2nd-November-2006, 05:14 PM
Tell you what, if I ever do, I'll make sure to invite you to the party. Deal?

Sure, do you want my email address?

El Salsero Gringo
2nd-November-2006, 05:23 PM
:rofl:

You very funny man, you know that?

Little Monkey
2nd-November-2006, 05:57 PM
Doesn't he cover for Sheepy on occasion, when Sheepy is busy further north....?

Yes, occasionally. Like when Sheepy was in San Fransisco. But not when he's up here, 'cus he's never here on a Monday.... Kenobe's not involved in running it any more, tho, no more than Sheepy's involved in running Funky Lush, just 'cus he's DJd for Kenobe before...

And somehow I can't see an MJ club night being that much of competition for Jango, as they're rather different things, and cater for very different tastes in music and dancing. I know what I'd choose, anyway!

TheTramp
2nd-November-2006, 07:19 PM
This may well all be true. And I knew it already....

But, public perception (or indeed, donkey perception) might not be able to draw a difference from Toby running it, or just covering sets there. Especially if said donkeys don't attend.

I just didn't want him labelled a bad donkey for that. When there's so many other things that you could label him a bad donkey for.... :whistle:

Little Monkey
5th-November-2006, 12:38 PM
I just didn't want him labelled a bad donkey for that. When there's so many other things that you could label him a bad donkey for.... :whistle:

Ah, yes, I see your point...... I just thought I'd be pedantic. Oh, and I like saying 'Bad donkey!' (actually best said with a John Cleese voice, as in Shrek 2).

I could always tell Donkey Boy off again for taking photos of me when I was ill and looked like hell in July, and then posting the photos on the forum...... But then I've already told him he's a Bad Donkey because of that, so maybe I shouldn't...:whistle:

Oh...

But it's too much fun...!

BAD DONKEY!!

Ooops, it just slipped out! Sorry! :innocent:

David Bailey
7th-November-2006, 12:55 PM
OK, continuing the series of "fly on the waistcoat" reviews, here's what happened last night:

Numbers improving again - I noticed the beginner's revision class taught by a certain Forumite, but I'm far too discreet to name names.

Reasonably even numbers - men over last week, a couple of women over this week.

Apparently the routine is lifted from a choreographed routine to be taught for a team cabaret at the Hippodrome Christmas party. Blimey, if it's anything like "Ecuador"... :rolleyes:

3 hours freestyle, and two huge film screens showing Take the Lead - fantastic :clap:

Err... that's it.

Dizzy
7th-November-2006, 01:11 PM
OK, continuing the series of "fly on the waistcoat" reviews, here's what happened last night:

Numbers improving again - I noticed the beginner's revision class taught by a certain Forumite, but I'm far too discreet to name names.

Reasonably even numbers - men over last week, a couple of women over this week.

Apparently the routine is lifted from a choreographed routine to be taught for a team cabaret at the Hippodrome Christmas party. Blimey, if it's anything like "Ecuador"... :rolleyes:

3 hours freestyle, and two huge film screens showing Take the Lead - fantastic :clap:

Err... that's it.


Ok, either you are the invisible man or you have a spy in the ranks :whistle:

The only reason I turned up last night was to dance with you :tears:

David Bailey
7th-November-2006, 01:32 PM
Ok, either you are the invisible man or you have a spy in the ranks :whistle:

The only reason I turned up last night was to dance with you :tears:
I was there, I was on the top button. And believe me, it wasn't a fun place to be :eek:

David Bailey
14th-November-2006, 12:10 PM
This will be my last review, as I've run out of buttons to hide behind...

The numbers were up again from last week, so it's been a steady progression.
Fairly standard beginners' class, intermediate class had lots of pretzel-y moves with hands and spins and things...

One other good thing is that the teachers are putting in some good style and safety tips, which is a welcome change. Possibly that's the Aussie influence at work, or possibly a reflection of the relatively small class sizes.

The teachers work the floor very hard to dance with beginners and newbies. And not only did we have - again - the Mystery Celeb, but yet another visiting teacher came along and helped out.

Slight problems with the floor being uneven, plus a bit of broken glass, but generally a good night out.

Paul F
12th-December-2006, 04:42 PM
Just been looking at the "Whos going where 15 Dec etc" thread and noticed that Jive Nation has a Christmas party.

So hows it doing these days? Have the numbers increased further? If so, does anyone know how many are attending?

Just wondered.

David Bailey
12th-December-2006, 04:46 PM
Just been looking at the "Whos going where 15 Dec etc" thread and noticed that Jive Nation has a Christmas party.

So hows it doing these days? Have the numbers increased further? If so, does anyone know how many are attending?
Last I heard, it was increasing steadily - I'd imagine they've got around 60-70 per night at the moment.

Of course, I'm sure it's still losing money - it took Ashtons over a year to stop losing money as i recall - but increased numbers are always good.

Paul F
12th-December-2006, 04:50 PM
Last I heard, it was increasing steadily - I'd imagine they've got around 60-70 per night at the moment.

Of course, I'm sure it's still losing money - it took Ashtons over a year to stop losing money as i recall - but increased numbers are always good.

:cheers:
Thanks for the info DJ.

Im glad to hear it. Im guessing some of the issues have been addressed which is good. Either that or Simon has managed to capture some very hardened dancers. Either way Im glad its surviving.
I didnt think it would !

Andreas
12th-December-2006, 05:04 PM
Last I heard, it was increasing steadily - I'd imagine they've got around 60-70 per night at the moment.

Of course, I'm sure it's still losing money - it took Ashtons over a year to stop losing money as i recall - but increased numbers are always good.
Numbers are a tad lower than that. Classes are good, from what I have seen. Moves taught have a very down-under feel but they are making a good effort.

If you are planning on heading to the party on the 15th, please make sure you confirm your attendance today or tomorrow (I think) because they have to have sort of a guest list due to liquor license regulations or so.

David Bailey
12th-December-2006, 05:15 PM
:cheers:
Thanks for the info DJ.

Im glad to hear it. Im guessing some of the issues have been addressed which is good. Either that or Simon has managed to capture some very hardened dancers. Either way Im glad its surviving.
I didnt think it would !

I believe that some quite prominent names have been regulars, but I'll spare their blushes :)

Despite what some people think, I've never been there, so this'd be a first for me...

Paul F
12th-December-2006, 05:34 PM
If you are planning on heading to the party on the 15th, please make sure you confirm your attendance today or tomorrow (I think) because they have to have sort of a guest list due to liquor license regulations or so.

I wasn't sure if you were posting that for me or not so thought I would reply.

Thanks for the info but its not really my kind of scene.

Lou
16th-January-2007, 12:22 PM
Numbers are a tad lower than that. Classes are good, from what I have seen. Moves taught have a very down-under feel but they are making a good effort.
I popped in yesterday. Sadly, numbers are still low - but it was good to see that the average age is also lower than many classes these days. The majority of the punters seemed to be late 20s, and antipodean. I don't know whether it was an off night, but they seemed to have a fair bit of trouble with the logistics - the classes started late, the mikes weren't working right.... The beginners class had tricky Pretzel & Yoyo variations (which caught out a few newbies), and the Intermediate/Advanced had multiple spins which I liked :D. I wasn't so taken with the music - it wasn't that I didn't like the tunes, but more how they were put together. And I forgot how fast Obsession by Shakira really is. :rolleyes: One thing stood out, though - and that was how friendly & welcoming the crew were. :clap:

strobie
17th-January-2007, 12:48 PM
The beginners class had tricky Pretzel & Yoyo variations (which caught out a few newbies)...

I think it was Seamus Waldron who taught the beginners class, and yes, I did find the beginners moves overly challenging (this was my 5th or 6th modern jive class). He wasn't on top form though, as he freely admitted, so it might have been easier without all the false starts, miscounts and confusion of left and right :wink:

NZ Monkey
17th-January-2007, 01:09 PM
I popped in yesterday. Sadly, numbers are still low - but it was good to see that the average age is also lower than many classes these days. The majority of the punters seemed to be late 20s, and antipodean. I don't know whether it was an off night, but they seemed to have a fair bit of trouble with the logistics - the classes started late, the mikes weren't working right.... The beginners class had tricky Pretzel & Yoyo variations (which caught out a few newbies), and the Intermediate/Advanced had multiple spins which I liked :D. I wasn't so taken with the music - it wasn't that I didn't like the tunes, but more how they were put together. And I forgot how fast Obsession by Shakira really is. :rolleyes: One thing stood out, though - and that was how friendly & welcoming the crew were. :clap:That was definitely and off night for everyone involved. Seamus wasn't supposed to be teaching, but the teachers had gotten held up with traffic problems on the M25 and were late because of that. Things were a tad hectic for a while there....

Those were the lowest numbers I've seen last Monday. If it turns into a pattern then I'd be a little worried, but on a regular pre-Christmas night you could safely double that number.