Good dancer ?

[Groovemeister]

I am bloody nightmare i know but I have question's and more questions.

So here we go.

Does the ability to get the hang of new moves quickly mean that you are a good dancer ?

Or does it mean that you are a quick learner?

Or does it mean that you have a lot of experience ?

I see some people still struggling with moves that have been dancing for a while that I percieve as being good dancers. I suppose it depends on how the leader and follower partnership works as well what do you think :)

[Alice]

I think a lot of it depends on how a person learns- some people are just better suited to the way a dance class is taught, so might pick up the moves more quickly.

They might also have good natural balance or physical awareness if they've done a lot of sport or martial arts before- someone else who hasn't done much physical activity might take a little longer to teach their body to move:nice:

[Lory]

I know people who, in a class situation are the fastest learning move machines in the west :worthy: but when it comes to freestyle, they have absolutely no idea of musicality, style or finesse whatsoever. :rolleyes: :sick:

Also, it depends on how much of the lesson is remembered, for me, I can pick stuff up quickly but I also have the memory retention capacity of a flee! :blush: Thank god I only have to follow.:innocent:

So NO, IMO it has no reflection on how good someone os at dancing! :yeah:

[Gav]

I know people who, in a class situation are the fastest learning move machines in the west :worthy: but when it comes to freestyle, they have absolutely no idea of musicality, style or finesse whatsoever. :rolleyes: :sick:

Also, it depends on how much of the lesson is remembered, for me, I can pick stuff up quickly but I also have the memory retention capacity of a flee! :blush: Thank god I only have to follow.:innocent:

So NO, IMO it has no reflection on how good someone os at dancing! :yeah:

:yeah:

I used to beat myself up that I didn't get some of the moves first time around in the lessons. It was only when I started getting asked to dance by ladies who said "you're one of only a couple of guys that managed to get those moves right" that I realised that I was actually picking them up quickly, just being a little harsh on myself.

IMHO That makes makes me a quick learner, not neccessarily a good dancer.

Thing is, if I'm not ready to introduce new moves to my repetoir, it doesn't matter a jot, because I'd rather concentrate on getting what I already know perfect.

I noticed very early on that there are people who know a lot of moves (and can generally execute them perfectly) and there are people that can dance. You could be both, but there is a difference. I'd rather be the latter, even if it does mean that it takes me longer to have more moves.

[Groovemeister]

I never know how I truely get on with new moves. yes you hear the "you managed to do it then" remarks but I never really associate that as being a good dancer.

Just shows that you never stop learning I suppose

[robd]

yes you hear the "you managed to do it then" remarks

:rolleyes:

Harsh ladies at St Neots, no doubt.

I remember struggling hugely in my first few intermediate classes (and I didn't step up to that until I'd been to maybe 10 or 11 classes). Now, I guess on a standard Ceroc night, I could come in, watch the intermediate class through a couple of times and then perform the same sequence of moves. I don't think this means I am a particularly fast learner just that many intermediate moves seem to be derivatives of common staples and familiarity gained over time with the basics makes the variants easier to pick up. However, I do still find some types of moves tricky esp. moves involving ducking whether for me or the follower for instance. As for the correlation between good dancer and ability to pick up moves quickly I am not sure how strong it is. There are a number of threads I recall reading on here about what constitutes a good dancer and the ability to pick up new moves quickly isn't something I remember seeing mentioned.

Robert

[MartinHarper]

I see some people still struggling with moves that have been dancing for a while that I percieve as being good dancers.

Better leaders sometimes struggle more with moves in classes because they want to lead them completely, whereas less good leaders are happy just to get to the end at the right time.
Better followers sometimes appear to struggle more because they're following, rather than anticipating.

[under par]

I know people who, in a class situation are the fastest learning move machines in the west :worthy: but when it comes to freestyle, they have absolutely no idea of musicality, style or finesse whatsoever. :rolleyes: :sick:

A:

Remembering lots of moves quickly is only half the battle for a leader.

Remembering the moves for a long time is a more elusive trait amongst us.

Remembering to how to freestyle the moves as a sequence is good.

Remembering the individual moves from a sequence and freestylyng individually them is better.

But remember to dance is not just moves. Its moves in time to the music.

A follower would (IMHO) rather you danced fewer moves in time to the music than lots of moves not in time to the music.

As a leader there is a period of time when it is important to dance moves and learn to dance them well.... at the expense of the music.

This period of time will vary dependant on how many nights a week you dance and how often you repeat the "OLD" (last weeks and before!) moves.

IMHO it is the repetition of a move over a prolonged period that increases the ability to dance the move well.

I would dance after a class lesson for 5 or 6 tracks and when I felt I was not introducing a new move to the repertoire, I would stop look at my list of moves and find 2 moves that I hadn't yet done that evening and make it my goal to dance those moves.

I would repeat this every night several times.

Leaders you know when you have just danced the same moves without variation for several tracks.

This is when you need to STOP.

Re-read old moves pick out 2 and have several more enjoyable dances as you work out how you are going to use the moves within your current repertoire.

This how to learn well lots of different moves IMHO.

The Revelation

Then when you have been dancing these moves well for a period there will be a moment in time when you will realise that you have suddenly got to another level.

I think you will all remember when it happens because you will suddenly find you are not thinking about what the next move is!!! (yes it will happen!)

You will be listening to the MUSIC. (for me it felt like I was hearing the music for the first time!!).

The moves will just flow without any conscious thought process... and I felt a floaty experience as I moved myself and partner in time to the music to whatever move happened to be happening.. the move was not that important anymore it was the motion in time to the music that was.

This when the dancing becomes even more MAGICAL than before.

There will still be lots to learn and improve on when you have your revelation, but getting there and feeling the music and flowing without a lot of thought is a great place to be. :yeah:

[Gav]

UP, I wanted to quote your whole post, but thought better of it.

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

You just summed up where I am and where I want to be soooo much more precisely than I ever could have.

Now where to find the patience to wait for that revelation?

[under par]

:

You just summed up where I am and where I want to be soooo much more precisely than I ever could have.

Now where to find the patience to wait for that revelation?

All I can say when I started I hated it... in the 1st 2 years from starting I had 2 periods of 7 months when I never went at all.

I found it very difficult, with no dance or musical experience at all, just a wish to spend more time with Mrs Par who was dancing already.:awe:

It was when Mrs Par's driver stopped dancing I stepped in and became her chauffer to dances 3 or 4 nights a week.

The difference in learning moves when you suddenly go 4 nights on the trot is amazing.

i had previously attended once every week or 2 weeks. This was not a good way for me to learn and the previous lesson always seemed to evaporate from my mind.

I felt so proud after my second week of 4 nights of classes as I had improved so so much more than I had done in a whole 2 years..

It gave me the encouragement to perservere and after 5 months of 3 to 4 nights a week came the revelation.... I recall the night vividly and I can recall the dancers whom I danced with that night too.

Another tip is go to events with long freestyle times and dance as close to every track as you can.:cheers:

[TiggsTours]

There are good dancers, and dancers who "know alot of moves".

I have had plenty of truly dreadful dances with guys who feel that they have to throw every move they have ever learnt into a routine, leaving me feeling like some sort of spinning dervish, totally disoriantead, and wondering whether or not he even realised I was attached to the end of his arm.

On the other hand I have had beautiful dances with guys who've only been dancing for 2-3 weeks, have only successfully mastered 1 or 2 moves, and have possibly attempted 1 or 2 others in the course of 3 minutes, but have spent that time communicating with me, treating me like I am actually 50% of the dance partnership, and not just the thing he has to twirl around, listened to the music and thoroughly enjoyed spending that time with me.

I have seen friends of mine who have been dancing for years spend a whole routine doing nothing more than the arm-jive, but with style, and with connection (the old communication thing). I think that a dance should be like a conversation with your partner, and in response to the music you are hearing, not a leaders opportunity to lecture the follower on everything he knows! Conversations involve 2 way communication, eye contact, listening as well as speaking, smiling and total connection.

When I was taxiing, I often used to tell the beginners that I would far rather dance with someone who could only do the first move, but did it well, than someone who could do a treble, swizzle, windmill pretzle with a swooping, nose dive, seducer at the end, but led it badly (or even well, to be completely honest!), I wasn't just being kind and supportive!

So no, I do not think a good dancer is someone who has learnt alot of moves quickly!

[Alice]

Having just reread the original post-

Being able to learn moves quickly just means you're a quick learner (and possibly that you learn by doing)

Being able to remember lots of moves just means you have a good mind for that sort of thing (lucky sod)

It's the putting moves together with connection and style that makes you a good dancer- some people naturally "flow" from day one, others take a lot longer (and one could argue that some never do...:devil: )

Certainly knowing more than a couple of moves makes for a more interesting dance (provided that you do them well)- but you could have 1000 moves in your daily repertoire and still be a bad dancer, or only have 4 moves and be fantastic to dance with or watch:)

[Blueshoes]

Does the ability to get the hang of new moves quickly mean that you are a good dancer ?

Or does it mean that you are a quick learner?

Or does it mean that you have a lot of experience ?



I don't think it necessarily means you're a good dancer, though if you've got a good grasp of the mechanics of moves and can lead properly that definitely helps. Also generally the experience overcomes the quick learner bit. Most moves are made up of bits of other moves tacked together so once you've been dancing for a while it's all sort of familiar just in a different sequence.

The hardest thing I find as a male demo is to be shown four intermediate moves in ten minutes then be expected to go up on the stage and dance them through with competance and style.

And I hate it when I get someone in the line up who says "I'm glad I got you, you'll know what you're doing" as it's invariably the prelude to it all going horribly wrong.......

That brings me on to another pet topic - all the good intermediate moves have been done to death in classes so many teachers resort to finding unusual moves to teach. These generally are more complicated, less leadable and look and feel worse than the stock intermediate moves, the only thing going for them is that they're different from what's been done before. Anyone else care to comment on this observation?

[Gav]

That brings me on to another pet topic - all the good intermediate moves have been done to death in classes so many teachers resort to finding unusual moves to teach. These generally are more complicated, less leadable and look and feel worse than the stock intermediate moves, the only thing going for them is that they're different from what's been done before. Anyone else care to comment on this observation?

Yes, I thought it was either bored teachers showing off, or responding to the more advanced dancers' needs because there's no advanced classes. Either way it causes problems for 'new' intermediates. :angry:

[Gadget]

I think that learning routines is just practice and concentration - I still get beginner routines wrong because I'm not giving the routine as much attention as I am giving something else (my partner, a particular move/movement, any music...) :blush:

The main problem I now have is remembering what I'm meant to be doing and not just going into what I would normally do from that position, especially when the teacher teaches moves that are (seem to be) a subtle variation on one of my "stock" moves.
This is especially true when the move is one of the more "complicated" or different moves.

Does a fast learner make a good dancer? Nope. Not particularly. That's just experiance. Experiance can make a good dancer. But the ability to regurgitate routines is more of a bi-product.

[TA Guy]

That brings me on to another pet topic - all the good intermediate moves have been done to death in classes so many teachers resort to finding unusual moves to teach. These generally are more complicated, less leadable and look and feel worse than the stock intermediate moves, the only thing going for them is that they're different from what's been done before. Anyone else care to comment on this observation?


Yes, I thought it was either bored teachers showing off, or responding to the more advanced dancers' needs because there's no advanced classes. Either way it causes problems for 'new' intermediates. :angry:

Absolutely agree. Although I've never thought it had much to do with the standard of the classes, more some teachers desire to stand up on stage and just say "Look at this unleadable move, Look at me, I AM a crap teacher".
Don't get me wrong, if fore-warned, maybe for a fixed couples class, or whatever fine. Or.. the occasional one is fine, Columbian, Ochos, great, but generally - no excuses, it's lame.

[Beowulf]

... Lots of Great Advice

This when the dancing becomes even more MAGICAL than before.

There will still be lots to learn and improve on when you have your revelation, but getting there and feeling the music and flowing without a lot of thought is a great place to be. :yeah:

:yeah: Superb advice..



i had previously attended once every week or 2 weeks. This was not a good way for me to learn and the previous lesson always seemed to evaporate from my mind.

I felt so proud after my second week of 4 nights of classes as I had improved so so much more than I had done in a whole 2 years..

It gave me the encouragement to persevere and after 5 months of 3 to 4 nights a week came the revelation.... I recall the night vividly and I can recall the dancers whom I danced with that night too.

Another tip is go to events with long freestyle times and dance as close to every track as you can.:cheers:

I'm very bad for shirking classes. Mostly I cannot afford to go three times a week every week and weekender's, freestyles etc too. but also partly because I'm learning so slowly I get frustrated with myself, so I don't go.. which of course, just makes the situation worse.

When I have more time + more money I'll do the whole intensive training thing !!! :clap: :respect:

[Gav]

When I have more time + more money I'll do the whole intensive training thing !!! :clap: :respect:

If only my kids were 16 or older, then I could be dancing 3 or 4 times a week! :innocent:

[David Bailey]

I don't think it necessarily means you're a good dancer, though if you've got a good grasp of the mechanics of moves and can lead properly that definitely helps.
A good memory always helps in learning anything new - obviously. Apart from that, I don't think it matters much how fast you pick moves up in the class.


The hardest thing I find as a male demo is to be shown four intermediate moves in ten minutes then be expected to go up on the stage and dance them through with competance and style.
:eek: No one told me about the "competence and style" requirement! I just thought "Not dropping the teacher" was enough :blush:


That brings me on to another pet topic - all the good intermediate moves have been done to death in classes so many teachers resort to finding unusual moves to teach.
Not my experience - there are hundreds of intermediate moves.

I guess it depends how you define "good" - and "unusual" for that matter.

[Blueshoes]

If only my kids were 16 or older, then I could be dancing 3 or 4 times a week! :innocent:
:yeah:

If only my kids were 16 or older I might be in with a chance of dancing regularly and sustaining a relationship :sad:

[Gav]

:yeah:

If only my kids were 16 or older I might be in with a chance of dancing regularly and sustaining a relationship :sad:

well that's just being greedy!:na:

[Blueshoes]

well that's just being greedy!:na:

Just call me Billy Bunter.... ;)

[fletch]

:yeah:

If only my kids were 16 or older I might be in with a chance of dancing regularly and sustaining a relationship :sad:


I was just as much a pain at 16 as I was when I was 6 proberbly more :eek:

things wont change when they suddenly get to 16 your relationship will sustain when its the right one



:flower: